HBO's Game of Thrones - - Part 11

[Iceman]

What is the general opinion on Walder Frey? He seems a bit worthless to me although I've only seen everything once and will have to rewatch to make a better judgment. Lysa & her kid were also annoying but maybe I didn't get what was going on and they were supposed to be that way or something. And the Ramsay scenes I thought were terrible but again I'm probably not understanding something having flown through the whole season so quickly just once and not having read the books. Yeah, would be interested in general views on those characters as nearly every one else is at least an 8/10 with most 9+.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Ramsay is probably the most evil and sickening villain in the franchise. I think that's more or less the general consensus on the character.

 

[Solidus]

Walder, and Joffery are important beyond their characters too. Most stories need a few good people just to purley hate. Especially since 95% of the characters in ASOIAF are shades of grey. Without Joffery, we would never have gotten into the war, as well with Walder, a changing of the tides.

Ramsay is important, and more starts to happen with him. They have just shown the tip of his character. He becomes very important and you can tell he will become more so with TWOW, alongside Roose.

 

[Iceman]

Ramsay is probably the most evil and sickening villain in the franchise. I think that's more or less the general consensus on the character.

Is he considered to be a good character though? The Lannisters are really great villains and even Joffrey has his place IMO. From what I remember seeing of Ramsay he hasn't shown any evidence of this yet, just a torturer who likes to taunt his victims (repeatedly.. yawn). Of course as far as I know he could be the main character of GoT.

 

[Iceman]

Walder, and Joffery are important beyond their characters too. Most stories need a few good people just to purley hate. Especially since 95% of the characters in ASOIAF are shades of grey. Without Joffery, we would never have gotten into the war, as well with Walder, a changing of the tides.

Ramsay is important, and more starts to happen with him. They have just shown the tip of his character. He becomes very important and you can tell he will become more so with TWOW, alongside Roose.

Walder & Ramsey both feel important, just not very good (so far).

 

[Hush]

Is he considered to be a good character though? The Lannisters are really great villains and even Joffrey has his place IMO. From what I remember seeing of Ramsay he hasn't shown any evidence of this yet, just a torturer who likes to taunt his victims (repeatedly.. yawn). Of course as far as I know he could be the main character of GoT.

Ramsay is about as evil as it gets, if they adapt half the **** he does in the books.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Is he considered to be a good character though? The Lannisters are really great villains and even Joffrey has his place IMO. From what I remember seeing of Ramsay he hasn't shown any evidence of this yet, just a torturer who likes to taunt his victims (repeatedly.. yawn). Of course as far as I know he could be the main character of GoT.

He's considered to be more horrifying than any of the Lannisters. His character brings a sense of dread whenever he appears, really the Boltons on a whole are much more frightening and dangerous than the Lannisters.

When we get to the core Theon chapters from ADWD, well that's when it gets to true horror.

 

[Victarion]

After finishing A Dance with Dragons, I'd say Ramsay's overflowing with self-loathing.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Don't anyone call him Lord Snow.

 

[Reek]

I have trouble figuring out what show some of you are watching.

 

[Iceman]

Ramsay is about as evil as it gets, if they adapt half the **** he does in the books.

He's considered to be more horrifying than any of the Lannisters. His character brings a sense of dread whenever he appears, really the Boltons on a whole are much more frightening and dangerous than the Lannisters.

When we get to the core Theon chapters from ADWD, well that's when it gets to true horror.

Ok, well I hope he grows on me as more of his complexity is revealed. I mean I don't really consider horrifying/frightening/dangerous to make a character good until the good and interesting aspects of the character have already made themselves apparent. A middle aged boring school caretaker with a torture fetish and no morals is going to be horrifically frightening when you're tied up naked in front of him but it might not result in TV gold.

The Lannisters might not be as dangerous or frightening but they have great lines, a lot of depth and have a degree of unpredictability. I just love every minute they're onscreen, particularly Jaime & Tyrion.

Walder Frey on the other hand just seems a bit boring and not really someone I'd want to credit with the big Red Wedding story. Anyway I'll reconsider all this after a 2nd viewing. (Lysa & her kid were still annoying 2nd time around - I can't really believe she would have sent that message to Cat and put her son at risk based on her ridiculously protective scenes later).

 

[Reek]

Ramsay is about as evil as it gets, if they adapt half the **** he does in the books.

Get her ready for me.....

 

[Hush]

Get her ready for me.....

I felt sick when I read that. Man the Reek chapters are some rough ****.

 

[Victarion]

Insert Pink Letter here.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Ok, well I hope he grows on me as more of his complexity is revealed. I mean I don't really consider horrifying/frightening/dangerous to make a character good until the good and interesting aspects of the character have already made themselves apparent. A middle aged boring school caretaker with a torture fetish and no morals is going to be horrifically frightening when you're tied up naked in front of him but it might not result in TV gold.

The Lannisters might not be as dangerous or frightening but they have great lines, a lot of depth and have a degree of unpredictability. I just love every minute they're onscreen, particularly Jaime & Tyrion.

Walder Frey on the other hand just seems a bit boring and not really someone I'd want to credit with the big Red Wedding story. Anyway I'll reconsider all this after a 2nd viewing. (Lysa & her kid were still annoying 2nd time around - I can't really believe she would have sent that message to Cat and put her son at risk based on her ridiculously protective scenes later).

The Boltons have great lines, a lot of depth and a large degree of unpredictability. Ramsay's scenes were deliberately vague and unfocused beyond torture because that's how the Showrunners wanted to portray Theon's POV. In the books he doesn't just tie people up and laugh while he skins and castrates them, we haven't even begun to see the mind rape this guy invokes. He's not sympathetic but he doesn't need to be, his complexity comes from his origins and his mania.


And as for Walder Frey, well it seems you're kind of missing the point of the Freys. They're not supposed to be worthy enemies at all. They're supposed to be weak and pathetic, not at all guys whom should have defeated the Starks. That's why it hurts more in-universe; the Starks weren't defeated by great tacticians or unstoppable warriors, they were killed by some coward who broke the laws of engagement. He's not supposed to be Tywin Lannister.

 

[Solidus]

Ok, well I hope he grows on me as more of his complexity is revealed. I mean I don't really consider horrifying/frightening/dangerous to make a character good until the good and interesting aspects of the character have already made themselves apparent. A middle aged boring school caretaker with a torture fetish and no morals is going to be horrifically frightening when you're tied up naked in front of him but it might not result in TV gold.

The Lannisters might not be as dangerous or frightening but they have great lines, a lot of depth and have a degree of unpredictability. I just love every minute they're onscreen, particularly Jaime & Tyrion.

Walder Frey on the other hand just seems a bit boring and not really someone I'd want to credit with the big Red Wedding story. Anyway I'll reconsider all this after a 2nd viewing. (Lysa & her kid were still annoying 2nd time around - I can't really believe she would have sent that message to Cat and put her son at risk based on her ridiculously protective scenes later).

Sorry gotta disagree with all of that. Especially with upcoming events. Like I said making every character grey is not always the best route. You need a few pure evils/psychopaths in there. Frey does what he does because he has always felt entitled to more then he had. And they've done a good job with him. Some characters are MEANT to me annoying. You will never like Lysa and that's the point she's gone off her rocker, especially since Jon's death. That's why she locked her self in the Vale. She's always been weaker then Cat. You will see that more in the upcoming season. You don't have to "like" the truly evil maniacal. That's...kinda their point. And there are people like that out there sadly.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I felt sick when I read that. Man the Reek chapters are some rough ****.

"I promise I'll do what he said....with the dogs..."

That's probably the only time I've read anything from the series and actually been sickened.

 

[Victarion]

Walder Frey's a rat. He's basically getting fat off the corpses from the War of Five Kings. That's his whole purpose.

 

[Solidus]

Walder Frey's a rat. He's basically getting fat off the corpses from the War of Five Kings. That's his whole purpose.

Yep, even early on Ned never trusted him due to that fact. He would wait until he could side with the person that would benefit him the most without having to give much in return. He is a pure rat. Again as I always felt, he felt entitled and jealous of the other families in the Riverlands, and to the North.

 

[Iceman]

The Boltons have great lines, a lot of depth and a large degree of unpredictability. Ramsay's scenes were deliberately vague and unfocused beyond torture because that's how the Showrunners wanted to portray Theon's POV. In the books he doesn't just tie people up and laugh while he skins and castrates them, we haven't even begun to see the mind rape this guy invokes. He's not sympathetic but he doesn't need to be, his complexity comes from his origins and his mania.

Good. I look forward to seeing how this turns out then.

And as for Walder Frey, well it seems you're kind of missing the point of the Freys. They're not supposed to be worthy enemies at all. They're supposed to be weak and pathetic, not at all guys whom should have defeated the Starks. That's why it hurts more in-universe; the Starks weren't defeated by great tacticians or unstoppable warriors, they were killed by some coward who broke the laws of engagement. He's not supposed to be Tywin Lannister.

If that's the point of it then yeah that makes sense. I knew I was missing/misunderstanding something (only watched once and pretty much the whole season in a day). Thanks for explaining both.

 

[Victarion]

I forgot to mention that the first few seasons of the show basically make the North out to be the noble heroes. Then here's Ramsay Bolton.

 

[Solidus]

I forgot to mention that the first few seasons of the show basically make the North out to be the noble heroes. Then here's Ramsay Bolton.

I'd throw Roose in there as well. Even though he may not be...as "off his rocker" as his son, he seems to have a bit of crazy in him for allowing him to live.

Spoiler

Especially after what Ramsay did to become the next in line. Though in ADWD there were times where I felt Roose regretted giving the power he does to Ramsay.

 

[Reek]

I felt sick when I read that. Man the Reek chapters are some rough ****.

yea all those chapters are really emotional.

Walder Frey on the other hand just seems a bit boring

He was the highlight of the entire season and absolutely every scene he was in.

Spoiler

 

[Iceman]

Sorry gotta disagree with all of that. Especially with upcoming events. Like I said making every character grey is not always the best route. You need a few pure evils/psychopaths in there. Frey does what he does because he has always felt entitled to more then he had. And they've done a good job with him. Some characters are MEANT to me annoying. You will never like Lysa and that's the point she's gone off her rocker, especially since Jon's death. That's why she locked her self in the Vale. She's always been weaker then Cat. You will see that more in the upcoming season. You don't have to "like" the truly evil maniacal. That's...kinda their point. And there are people like that out there sadly.

I was more asking for help on understanding what was going on with these characters rather than making a statement to be disagreed with. And I honestly don't have a need for characters to be grey, just good characters. Was worried that Ramsay/Frey/Lysa might not end up being so, so wanted to check with show veterans/readers of the books for their opinions. What Oberon said has convinced me a bit plus some of what you've said above. These are the only parts of the whole 3 seasons where I was thinking something wasn't totally awesome so I needed that being put right before Season 4 starts. t:

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Can't wait for more Ramsay!