HBO's Game of Thrones - - - - - Part 14

[Keyser Soze]

Yeah, but when Jaime lost his hand, his character developent began and he struggled thru with Brienne, let's put it this way:

After this episode, how many people care about Jaime's training with his left hand or Jaime being kind to Brienne? Brienne is the innocent woman, who's in love with a rapist now.

True, but before that she was an innocent woman who was in love with an incestuous, child-maiming murderer. The rape was a disturbing reminder that Jaime is still a very conflicted, screwed-up individual.

 

[ares834]

That Jaime scene pissed me off. I'm not sure why this show feels the need to keep screwing over Jaime.

 

[Drz]

I can reason with Jaime attempting to murder Bran, because it was to protect himself, Cersei Lannister, her marriage and their house, but Jaime raping is just him gaining something for himself, Cersei, the woman he loves, gains nothing but bad experience from it. Noone but the rapist can gain anything from it, Jaime attempting to murder Bran served a good cause, because they we're looking out for themselves.

Noone wants to root for a rapist, people can forgive fictional characters making mistakes or causing deaths, but rape is just too, mean spirited and you can't give excuses like you can with kills/murders with fictional character.

 

[Infinity9999x]

True, but before that she was an innocent woman who was in love with an incestuous, child-maiming murderer. The rape was a disturbing reminder that Jaime is still a very conflicted, screwed-up individual.

A reminder that I don't think should have been included. Yes, Jamie did horrible things, but before they were always horrible things to protect the people he cared about and loved. I'm not saying that makes them excusable, it doesn't, but it's a different beast when now all of a sudden he's forcing himself on one of the few people he care for. It's also out of character, which is why so many are bothered by how it was portrayed.

 

[ares834]

I can reason with Jaime attempting to murder Bran, because it was to protect himself, Cersei Lannister, her marriage and their house, but Jaime raping is just him gaining something for himself, Cersei, the woman he loves, gains nothing but bad experience from it. Noone but the rapist can gain anything from it, Jaime attempting to murder Bran served a good cause, because they we're looking out for themselves.

Noone wants to root for a rapist, people can forgive fictional characters making mistakes or causing deaths, but rape is just too, mean spirited and you can't give excuses like you can with kills/murders with fictional character.

Plus, at this point in the story, Jaime's character has begun to develop into someone more sympathetic. The rape scene is a complete regression on all his character development and makes Jaime far more vile than ever. It was an absolutely horrible choice that has almost ruined what is frankly one of the best character arcs in the series.

 

[Hush]

Again I'm pretty sure that Cersei is ok with it towards the end because she starts to go at him just as hard. He has one hand, she can over power him. The relationship between the two of these people has been ****ed up since the beginning of it, Cersei is always hesitant in Kings Landing with Jamie and certainly in the Sept. I'm thinking its a tad over reaction to call it out and out rape.

 

[marcvader]

"It’s my cut of the scene. The consensual part of it was that she wraps her legs around him, and she’s holding on to the table, clearly not to escape but to get some grounding in what’s going on. And also, the other thing that I think is clear before they hit the ground is she starts to make out with him. The big things to us that were so important, and that hopefully were not missed, is that before he rips her undergarment, she’s way into kissing him back. She’s kissing him aplenty."

 

[Drz]

If he wanted the audience to believe it was consensual, he should have cut away the dialogue of Jaime saying "i don't care!" and Cercei's constant denial.

Of course she was kissing him, that's the man she loves, this isn't a date rape where it's a stranger meeting a stranger, this is a woman and man who have loved each other for so many years, but now the man she's been in love with, suddenly rapes her.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Yes, Jaime raped Cersei, and yes it was a vile act and disturbing to watch. But I find it strange to see people saying that because of this, they're not sure if they can continue to like the guy that pushed a little boy out a window in the first episode....

There's a difference. Jaime pushed Bran from the window to protect himself, Cersei, their children, and Tyrion. If Robert found out then, he'd have executed Lannister and declared a war on Tywin. It was a horrible act done with some good intention.

The main issue though is that it was an unnecessary diversion from the book. Even though the scene is told from Jaime's POV in the book, it's apparent that Cersei is resisting having sex only because of where they are (in the holiest building in the country right next to the body of their son and king). She puts up a fight only when they're making out but then consents to the sex. Here is the excerpt from the book:

"Hurry," she was whispering now, "quickly, quickly, now, do it now, do me now. Jaime Jaime Jaime." Her hands helped guide him. "Yes," Cersei said as he thrust, "my brother, sweet brother, yes, like that, yes, I have you, you're home now, you're home now, you're home." She kissed his ear and stroked his short bristly hair. Jaime lost himself in her flesh. He could feel Cersei's heart beating in time with his own, and the wetness of blood and seed where they were joined.

There is also the fact that Jaime hates rape. When he's in the Kingsguard, he hears King Aerys raping Queen Rhaella while on guard duty. He says to the Lord Commander Gerold Hightower, "We swore to protect her" to which Hightower replies, "Yes, but not from him." He stops Brienne from being raped by saying her father is swimming in sapphires and would pay a high ransom for her (even though this is a lie). In the show, this action is what leads to him losing his hand. He also comments on how he hated when Robert would rape Cersei and wanted to kill him for it. It's completely out of character for Jaime to rape the person he loves the most, and he'd never do anything to hurt his family (even though they had him kill his cousin in season 2 for no reason and have completely ignored this despite the stigma of kinslaying in Westeros).

 

[ares834]

Again I'm pretty sure that Cersei is ok with it towards the end because she starts to go at him just as hard. He has one hand, she can over power him. The relationship between the two of these people has been ****ed up since the beginning of it, Cersei is always hesitant in Kings Landing with Jamie and certainly in the Sept. I'm thinking its a tad over reaction to call it out and out rape.

Uh...

It's still rape. Jaime forced himself upon Cersei without her consent and when she was specifically saying not to. That she physically wants to have sex and that she enjoys it doesn't change that fact.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

The main issue though is that it was an unnecessary diversion from the book. Even though the scene is told from Jaime's POV in the book, it's apparent that Cersei is resisting having sex only because of where they are (in the holiest building in the country right next to the body of their son and king)

Isn't this part implied in the show's scene too? Where she says "no it's not right". which refers to where they are?

I'm just talking about this part, not the other crazy warped stuff in that scene, which was really disturbing obviously.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Isn't this part implied in the show's scene too? Where she says "no it's not right". which refers to where they are?

I'm just talking about this part, not the other crazy warped stuff in that scene, which was really disturbing obviously.

She simply says, "No" a few times and anything after this can be construed as rape. She never says anything to imply consent and her physical actions are ambiguous. Still, it doesn't become consensual just because she stops fighting it. The book makes it clearer that she consents to the sex and only resists while they're making out.

 

[Man in the Suit]

David Benioff: "You see that Cersei is resisting this. She's saying no and he's forcing himself on her."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUScAGHJHR4&feature=youtu.be&t=1m28s


I'm not sure what Alex Graves is talking about.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

She simply says, "No" a few times and anything after this can be construed as rape. She never says anything to imply consent and her physical actions are ambiguous. Still, it doesn't become consensual just because she stops fighting it. The book makes it clearer that she consents to the sex and only resists while they're making out.

I get what you mean but she also says "Jaime, not here, please. Stop it! Stop it. Stop, it's not right. It's not right. It's not right."

That, to me, implies that it's to do with their current location and in front of their dead son.

Of course, it also implies how disturbing this scene is. Very hard to watch.

 

[Dugath]

Interesting that there is a discussion of "is it or is it not rape" seems to be more of a no-no than the fact they are siblings

 

[Kaleb]

 

[Sawyer]

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Keyser Soze]

Reading some of the arguments here, I definitely have a better understanding of what made the rape scene so problematic, so thanks for that.

 

[Kane52630]

Well I for one can't wait to see the trial.

 

[Sawyer]

I can't wait to see [blackout]just exactly wherever it is ****es go[/blackout].

 

[Kaleb]

 

[Iceman]

I didn't know [blackout]Dontos dies[/blackout]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

David Benioff: "You see that Cersei is resisting this. She's saying no and he's forcing himself on her."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUScAGHJHR4&feature=youtu.be&t=1m28s


I'm not sure what Alex Graves is talking about.

He is talking about the scene he filmed.

 

[Golgo-13]

Enjoyed this ep a lot but the 5 minutes we got with Calisi was just boss!