HBO's Game of Thrones - - - - - Part 14

[iamlegend]

Rape or not, we cant overlook the fact that he ****ed her on the Sept floor beside his dead son. An action like that wasnt needed at this stage of Jaime's development in the show. It was a massive step back. D&D need an ass chewing for this bit of writing. They know better than this kind of crap.

The only way Ill ever be ok with it is if Jaime shows disgust at himself and stops ****ing Cersei from here on out otherwise Im pretty soured by the whole thing.

Jamie's not a good person. Not even close. We've known that for awhile. Some captivity and a few months on the road with Brienne wasn't going to change that. He's got a long, long way to go. And he'll probably never quite get there.

 

[Leenie]

That piece of human s*** did something s***ty to an even s***tier person, in front of the corpse of their ultra-s***ty son. Everything is RUINED!

I normally wouldn't have an issue if Jamie's character had stayed consistently s***ty, but Season 3 did something to him that humbled him, and he actually did something heroic for Brienne.

It seemed to me that the writers were ready to make him more likable, then out of nowhere, BAM! He rapes his sister in front of their son's corpse. I'm not in the "I'm offended by what happened" boat (It's GoT, for goodness sake, I'm desensitized at the sexual content at this point). Instead, I'm in the "This isn't good writing" boat.

 

[Maximus One]

Omg y'all are still going on about this ****? This is getting crazy. That's all people are whining about all over the Internet since Sunday night. I'm glad I don't let some silly thing like that destroy my enjoyment of the show.

 

[Reek]

id normally say something lame and offensive...

 

[Maximus One]

It's just annoying at this point. It's not so bad here but good lord on GoT Facebook pages and stuff people are going crazy over this. It's asinine

 

[BatmanBeyond]

they are being too back and forth with jaime... love hate love hate love wtf huh what love hate why huh

From my own reading experience, there's a back and forth in how Jaime's presented in the books as well, so I think it's fine they're doing that in the show as well. Like a previous poster said, yes, Jaime started to slowly "redeem" himself last season, but that doesn't mean he's not a ****ed up individual still. As someone else very accurately pointed out (or perhaps it was the same aforementioned poster?), Cersei is probably that last great link to the old Jaime, so until he gets away from her for good, I'd still expect this back and forth from/with him.

Jamie's not a good person. Not even close. We've known that for awhile. Some captivity and a few months on the road with Brienne wasn't going to change that. He's got a long, long way to go. And he'll probably never quite get there.

Also, this.

 

[Drz]

Even with the argument of "Jamie's not a good person" he was againts rape. He was disgusted by the Mad King's raping, he saved Brienne from raping, so why make him a rapist?

 

[Maximus One]

Cuz he didn't think he was raping her maybe? Maybe in this world rape is a little more violent than that?

 

[marcvader]

Just to throw something out there especially for the virtuous ones on here there are couples you know that get off on sex like this. Especially the twisted ones and ah I'm sure you know these two aren't exactly the picture of a healthy normal relationship.

 

[Victarion]

Even with the argument of "Jamie's not a good person" he was againts rape. He was disgusted by the Mad King's raping, he saved Brienne from raping, so why make him a rapist?

But did Jaime see his act as rape? People will say one thing and do something else. Not defending Jaime; just looking at the deed from his perspective.

 

[Keyser Soze]

So is everyone pretty much behind Tommon? Hasn't said much but his scene with Tywin makes me not want for him to share his brothers fate.

Edit, as in posters, not characters. Are people rooting for him?

I think Tommon's a good kid, but I don't expect him to have any real influence. Seems like he's just going to get pressured into doing whatever Tywin asks of him, making Tywin the de facto king even more than he was with Joffrey.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Jack Gleeson: "All i did was sleep the entire filming of this episode."

You... and everyone else.

OK. Back to where you belong:

 

[Kane52630]

That piece of human s*** did something s***ty to an even s***tier person, in front of the corpse of their ultra-s***ty son. Everything is RUINED!

--George R. R. Martin

 

[Kane52630]

 

[Drz]

But did Jaime see his act as rape? People will say one thing and do something else. Not defending Jaime; just looking at the deed from his perspective.

The actor considers it a Rape and the performance from both actors make it a clear rape.

 

[P Supreme]

watched the episode again I can watch Tywin speak to a tree and it would be compelling

 

[Loki882]

If I'm not mistaken, the act was consensual in the books. So I'm puzzled as to why the showrunners felt the need to make it rape. Did they want to make it more creepy/disturbing? It's a brother and sister banging with the kid (who's their son's) dead corpse lying not far away. It's already monumentally creepy. I just don't see the reasoning behind going even further with it, it struck me as pointless and being "shocking" purely for the sake of it, not because it fit the story.

 

[Victarion]

The actor considers it a Rape and the performance from both actors make it a clear rape.

I know that Nikolaj considers the act to have been a rape, as do I. My post was addressing Jaime the character, rather than his actor.

Right now we don't know whether or not the character considers it a rape. As Martin said, the show characters Jaime and Cersei had been together in King's Landing for a greater timespan. Within that we've seen Jaime frustrated with the loss of his right hand and angry/frustrated at Cersei for rebuffing him. So it is reasonable to assume that Jaime raping Cersei was an issue of power/empowerment. It's not flattering for the character and is quite evil, but there you go.

I agree that it was creepy enough in the book without adding the rape.

 

[Teelie]

I don't know what I'd call it myself. It's very near rape but as someone else pointed out, had they not been there with Joffery's body and instead somewhere else she likely would not have objected.

It was forceful sex, no matter which side of the line it falls on and probably not what Cersei had in mind.

 

[Great Mind(s)]

Wasn't Cersei kissing him heavily?

 

[Silvermoon]

I don't know what I'd call it myself. It's very near rape but as someone else pointed out, had they not been there with Joffery's body and instead somewhere else she likely would not have objected.

It was forceful sex, no matter which side of the line it falls on and probably not what Cersei had in mind.

That's pretty much where I stand at this point too - not quite sure what to call it.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Rape or not, we cant overlook the fact that he ****ed her on the Sept floor beside his dead son. An action like that wasnt needed at this stage of Jaime's development in the show. It was a massive step back. D&D need an ass chewing for this bit of writing. They know better than this kind of crap.

The only way Ill ever be ok with it is if Jaime shows disgust at himself and stops ****ing Cersei from here on out otherwise Im pretty soured by the whole thing.

I think the "step back" is on purpose. If Jamie is indeed on a path to redemption, which is sort of true...I don't think he can be redeemed for what he did to Bran, then he's got to stumble. It'd be weird if suddenly Jamie was this straight arrow from now on. I don't see how his experience on the road, and as a pow, would have convinced him to see that his relationship with Cersei is wrong. I view his relationship with her, overall, as one of the major hurdles he needs to overcome to continue on his path of redemption.

Because even in the season premiere, when he moved in to kiss her...it felt like a "step back" as well. Just seems to be the way his arc is going.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Edit

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

GRMM commented on the scene, in the comments section of his blog in response to a fan question:

http://winteriscoming.net/2014/04/21/george-r-r-martin-responds-fans-concern-breaker-chains/

GRRM:
“I think the “butterfly effect” that I have spoken of so often was at work here. In the novels, Jaime is not present at Joffrey’s death, and indeed, Cersei has been fearful that he is dead himself, that she has lost both the son and the father/ lover/ brother. And then suddenly Jaime is there before her. Maimed and changed, but Jaime nonetheless. Though the time and place is wildly inappropriate and Cersei is fearful of discovery, she is as hungry for him as he is for her.

The whole dynamic is different in the show, where Jaime has been back for weeks at the least, maybe longer, and he and Cersei have been in each other’s company on numerous occasions, often quarreling. The setting is the same, but neither character is in the same place as in the books, which may be why Dan & David played the sept out differently. But that’s just my surmise; we never discussed this scene, to the best of my recollection.
Also, I was writing the scene from Jaime’s POV, so the reader is inside his head, hearing his thoughts. On the TV show, the camera is necessarily external. You don’t know what anyone is thinking or feeling, just what they are saying and doing.

If the show had retained some of Cersei’s dialogue from the books, it might have left a somewhat different impression — but that dialogue was very much shaped by the circumstances of the books, delivered by a woman who is seeing her lover again for the first time after a long while apart during which she feared he was dead. I am not sure it would have worked with the new timeline.

That’s really all I can say on this issue. The scene was always intended to be disturbing… but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons.”

 

[Kaleb]