Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - - Part 17

[Mandon Knight]

I take it the coin he forged after JL was a nickel, and the VFX team said 'Heh, can we have our budget back please ?'.

 

[Tra-El]

Henry doing Henry things. This business can chew you up and spit you out. Glad Henry has stayed true to himself and represents what's good in the industry. All class. \S/.

 

[GothamBat]

Best superman moment by far. Lemme revise my list of best Superman scenes in cinematic history.

 

[BH/HHH]

Best superman moment by far. Lemme revise my list of best Superman scenes in cinematic history.

Personally while the mouth is terrible I think it’s a great Superman moment.

 

[Micromind]

He looks like Mxyzptlk.

 

[flickchick85]

Personally while the mouth is terrible I think it’s a great Superman moment.

Agreed. My great frustration with this scene is that the mustache removal was so blatantly distracting from an otherwise lovely moment; the kind of moment I’d been waiting to see from this Superman for two movies.

 

[BH/HHH]

Agreed. My great frustration with this scene is that the mustache removal was so blatantly distracting from an otherwise lovely moment. The kind of moment I’d been waiting to see from this Superman for two movies.

 

[Tra-El]

We need more of that. Only WB can mess up good things. Maybe the Superman curse does exist.

 

[Mandon Knight]

We need more of that. Only WB can mess up good things. Maybe the Superman curse does exist.

It is a role that's just 'culturally' huge & defining so it will 'daunt', I agree whilst there are sad stories linked, I think Cavill's natural outlook will mean he 'escapes' such dispiritive effect.

There does appear to be pain & career problems be-set by the role.

 

[GothamBat]

Even without the deformed looking face, the scene was so clearly inauthentic and pandering. Cynical, calculated and hollow. It's really ironic and fitting that Henry ended up looking like he does. Kind of poetic actually. Like his messed up appearance is a manifestation of how warped the intent behind the scenes is.

 

[Tra-El]

The placement was awful. Opening with that set no tone whatsoever to the movie, especially going straight into the "I tried" sequence. That should have been a post credit if anything. The thought was appreciated but of course, Whedon's dialogue made absolutely no sense and killed any chance of it making a statement. Shazam! should revisit that moment and make it what it should have been.

 

[heatvision38]

Even without the deformed looking face, the scene was so clearly inauthentic and pandering. Cynical, calculated and hollow. It's really ironic and fitting that Henry ended up looking like he does. Kind of poetic actually. Like his messed up appearance is a manifestation of how warped the intent behind the scenes is.

Well said.

 

[BH/HHH]

Even without the deformed looking face, the scene was so clearly inauthentic and pandering. Cynical, calculated and hollow. It's really ironic and fitting that Henry ended up looking like he does. Kind of poetic actually. Like his messed up appearance is a manifestation of how warped the intent behind the scenes is.

I don’t agree at all, it was a moment in the film that showed why people missed Superman. BvS didn’t do that at all and even though I did like BvS it failed the moment of his death later because we never got to see anything of the heroic guy that people loved. This moment gave us that and I think it was necessary.

 

[kguillou]

I thought his warm,demanor towards the kids was good and needed even though the dialogue was a little wonky.

Yo me, the pandering moment of the film that almost made me laugh out loud was in the final battle where Superman stops everything and goes, "wait, Batman CIVILIANS. I must go and make sure the fanboys dont complain!"

THAT moment felt very inauthentic and blatantly pandering. I feel like they could've come up with a much more organic way of Superman saving some civilians.

 

[misslane38]

I don’t agree at all, it was a moment in the film that showed why people missed Superman. BvS didn’t do that at all and even though I did like BvS it failed the moment of his death later because we never got to see anything of the heroic guy that people loved. This moment gave us that and I think it was necessary.

There was nothing in that found footage that opened JL that helped me understand why the world would miss Superman. Hope is like car keys? What? It is staged, contrived, and unnatural. It would have been much more effective to show Lois on her new puff piece beat coming across people who Superman had helped or inspired and people who still needed Superman. Show the little boy from Gotham running around with a red towel as a cape as he helps others in his neighborhood, for example. Show Martha flipping through a scrapbook of news clippings before she places it in a box for her upcoming move. Show us one of the media talking heads from BvS interviewing the girl from Juarez in her home. Show the EMT who asked Superman to leave after the Capitol boming wearing a Superman t-shirt under his uniform.

Choosing to focus on Superman as a celebrity figure who utters nonsensical yet hackneyed homilies is equally as distancing to me as Superman never interacting with the public at all. Because it's not truthful or human. One cannot love or miss a focus group tested plastic pod person. BvS showed us a Superman who would be loved and missed because the world rejected him, kept him at arm's length, and he still died for them anyway. Humanity missed Superman and loved him because they didn't appreciate or trust him until he had given everything for them. Humanity found love through Superman's sacrifice. They missed him because they didn't understand what he was and what he could have been for them until it was too late. If the moment had reflected even a morsel of truth, it would have worked. It didn't. It was fake and exploitative.

 

[heatvision38]

There was nothing in that found footage that opened JL that helped me understand why the world would miss Superman. Hope is like car keys? What? It is staged, contrived, and unnatural. It would have been much more effective to show Lois on her new puff piece beat coming across people who Superman had helped or inspired and people who still needed Superman. Show the little boy from Gotham running around with a red towel as a cape as he helps others in his neighborhood, for example. Show Martha flipping through a scrapbook of news clippings before she places it in a box for her upcoming move. Show us one of the media talking heads from BvS interviewing the girl from Juarez in her home. Show the EMT who asked Superman to leave after the Capitol boming wearing a Superman t-shirt under his uniform.

Choosing to focus on Superman as a celebrity figure who utters nonsensical yet hackneyed homilies is equally as distancing to me as Superman never interacting with the public at all. Because it's not truthful or human. One cannot love or miss a focus group tested plastic pod person. BvS showed us a Superman who would be loved and missed because the world rejected him, kept him at arm's length, and he still died for them anyway. Humanity missed Superman and loved him because they didn't appreciate or trust him until he had given everything for them. Humanity found love through Superman's sacrifice. They missed him because they didn't understand what he was and what he could have been for them until it was too late. If the moment had reflected even a morsel of truth, it would have worked. It didn't. It was fake and exploitative.

I think throughout history, we can think of examples of individuals who were loved then torn down, then, when they were gone, loved again. Jesus (whether one believes in him or not, the idea is still there), is one example. We see it today in our celebrities. It's human nature. We can take people for granted, but when they are not there, we come to realize what we had all along.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Only WB could double down on something that audiences didn’t respond to, film the damn thing, and then finally realize at the last second “hey, maybe we should have held off on things after the last one stunk up the joint.”

And as a result, scramble to come up with something equally worse or just as worse to try and fix a problem that was long overdue to be corrected.

 

[GothamBat]

There was nothing in that found footage that opened JL that helped me understand why the world would miss Superman. Hope is like car keys? What? It is staged, contrived, and unnatural. It would have been much more effective to show Lois on her new puff piece beat coming across people who Superman had helped or inspired and people who still needed Superman. Show the little boy from Gotham running around with a red towel as a cape as he helps others in his neighborhood, for example. Show Martha flipping through a scrapbook of news clippings before she places it in a box for her upcoming move. Show us one of the media talking heads from BvS interviewing the girl from Juarez in her home. Show the EMT who asked Superman to leave after the Capitol boming wearing a Superman t-shirt under his uniform.

Choosing to focus on Superman as a celebrity figure who utters nonsensical yet hackneyed homilies is equally as distancing to me as Superman never interacting with the public at all. Because it's not truthful or human. One cannot love or miss a focus group tested plastic pod person. BvS showed us a Superman who would be loved and missed because the world rejected him, kept him at arm's length, and he still died for them anyway. Humanity missed Superman and loved him because they didn't appreciate or trust him until he had given everything for them. Humanity found love through Superman's sacrifice. They missed him because they didn't understand what he was and what he could have been for them until it was too late. If the moment had reflected even a morsel of truth, it would have worked. It didn't. It was fake and exploitative.

This. All of this.

 

[misslane38]

Only WB could double down on something that audiences didn’t respond to, film the damn thing, and then finally realize “hey, maybe we should have held off on things after the last one stunk up the joint.”

And as a result, come up with something equally worse or just as worse to try and fix a problem that was long overdue to be corrected.

JL would never have doubled down on what audiences didn't respond to in prior installments because the lead up to JL contained in those prior films was a build up to something new and different already.

If WB doubled down on what audience's didn't like, then WB would have undermined the end of BvS and essentially regressed its narrative back to a post-Capitol bombing and pre-Doomsday status quo. That was never going to happen in any version of JL.

The "correction" already happened when Superman gave his life for humanity. In that moment, he embraced love, hope, and humanity. He did it with a smile and with love. And the world felt it, too.

You cannot "correct" what audiences didn't like about Snyder's Superman with lies. That would never and will never work. People don't work that way. Storytelling doesn't work that way. The only way to create some sort of gracenote for the character -- some sort of reconciliation for the audience -- is to root it in truth.

So find the truth people didn't see so clearly in MoS and BvS and illuminate it. Go back into the existing story and find threads that could be followed up on for texture. Anything but something new and fake. Something that does not align in any way with what the audience feels and knows. You cannot build bridges that way.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Then why did they scrap/reshoot pretty much the entire movie after it was filmed

Why did it take them so long to make the decision to go in another direction? Surely they wouldn’t have done that if it was going in a different direction

 

[misslane38]

Then why did they scrap/reshoot pretty much the entire movie after it was filmed

I don't know. Without seeing Snyder's cut I can't know what was changed or replaced. All I know is what was left over was soulless, gutless pandering.

Why did it take them so long to make the decision to go in another direction? Surely they wouldn’t have done that if it was going in a different direction

Because WB has proven themselves to be reactive and incompetent. For all we know, Snyder's JL would have been an ideal evolution for the character, but WB got cold feet. They wanted to have it all. And in that place of greed and fear, they made all of the wrong choices for all of the wrong reasons.

 

[kguillou]

They scrapped/reshot the movie the 11th hour because they met with Joss Whedon and the opporuntity to turn the movie into Guardians of the Galaxy was too tempting NOT to try, plain and simple.

Lets look at all of the evidence here. JL absolutely did not double down on what audiences didnt like. Audiences responded badly to dark, dour, violent tone of the prior movies and they wanted a Superman who smiled and was optimistic. If you look at the scenes Zack shot, you can already see he was giving people exactly what they wanted but it was much more subtle and less in your face than the Whedon product. I mean Zack ended the movie with the shirt rip, that right there tells you the kind of movie he was making.

WB, though, was ****ting red in the wake of BvS and they couldn't afford JL's tone to be subtle. They needed an in your face bright tonal shift, they needed the audience to laugh, they needed as minimal death and destruction as possible, they needed a product that was extremely chased because they couldn't afford subtlety anymore. They looked at the "Master Kent" scene and felt that it wasn't driving the point home enough that Superman is a completely changed person from the past 2 movies. It was still Zack's Superman just happier. They weren't looking for Zack's Superman, they were looking for Richard Donner's Superman again. They were desperate to completely divorce themselves tonally from any of Zack's films.

That is why they did it. Not because Zack's movie wasnt already giving the fans and audiences what they wanted, it wasn't enough of the complete tonal shift they wanted. And, well, be careful what you wish for.

 

[Flint Marko]

Lets look at all of the evidence here.

Can we all communally acknowledge that there really isn't much in the way of actual evidence here, and that any conclusion drawn up by anyone on any side is going to be filtered almost entirely through the lens of their own bias?

 

[MAN O STEEL]

For the people here saying that from the two deleted scenes of Zack Snyder's, that Superman had changed but just in a more subtle way than what Joss Whedon presented in the reshoots. WHAT?. Lol. You can't honestly believe that can you?. Now don't get me wrong, Joss' take wasn't great either but honestly go back and look at those two scenes. In the first one where Clark goes to the Scout ship to collect his suit, nothing has changed. From the moment he steps into frame till the last second before he steps out of the ship in his suit he is frowning. He looks completely unhappy just like in MOS and BVS. I'm not saying he should be all smiles but atleast have a look of relief, like a burden had been lifted and now being Superman is finally a choice for him, instead of living his life the way his father saw it, writing wrongs for a ghost, as Superman put it in BVS. He still just looked all round unhappy. As for the scene with Alfred, it makes no sense. Why would Superman find out from Lois that Bruce needs him and then go visit Alfred, all smiles while his new team mates are in mid battle trying to fight a world ending titan?. You might say it's to find out where the League are but would Bruce not have told Lois the full plan so that she could pass it onto Clark directly?. On top of that, Alfred is all serious and looks in shock, telling Superman he hopes he's not to late and this is the one time he smiles? Really?. Alfred looks worried about the team and Superman smiles now?. WOW!.

 

[Flint Marko]

Also wasn't "evil Superman" supposed to be a much larger subplot in Snyder's version?