How do you feel about Marvel's second wave heroes?

[Kevin Roegele]

I don't think Bucky will become Captain America, simply due to the fact that Sebastian Stan isn't a natural born American, and I would think that is a must when casting any Captain American part. With that said, I think it will be Sam.

Foreshadowing.

As for Seb Stan not being American, neither is Superman or Spider-Man at the moment. Although they don't have the country in their name, they're just as iconically American as Cap. Also, I don't think most people know Stan's nationality. And most importantly, Bucky has become an intrinsic part of the MCU - I don't think people would suddenly get upset if he became Cap simply because he's not American born.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You're basing your argument on Sebastian Stan continuing as the lead in the Captain America movies, but didn't say I think that will happen. Maybe it will. But what I'm saying is that Cap will die, and Bucky will take over in either Avengers: Infinity War or the fourth movie.

Once again, I understand your point. But regardless if he gets a solo as Cap or not, I don't see him being put in the costume at all. Even as a supporting Avengers. I see him sticking with his current White Wolf name or going back to Winter Soldier for marketing purposes. I don't see him or anyone else wearing the Captain America suit if Rogers dies (and again, I still don't think he will). Bucky is just not popular enough to be Captain America in the movie world.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Foreshadowing.

As for Seb Stan not being American, neither is Superman or Spider-Man at the moment. Although they don't have the country in their name, they're just as iconically American as Cap.

Him holding the shield is not immediate foreshadowing. Could easily just be a nod to the fan. Red Skull had the shield in his hands at one point, and he ain't going to be Captain America.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Him holding the shield is not immediate foreshadowing. Could easily just be a nod to the fan. Red Skull had the shield in his hands at one point, and he ain't going to be Captain America.

Lots of characters have held the shield over the movies. But Bucky has had in in every movie he's appeared in, and he's framed with it as if it belongs to him. He's the only character who holds it like Cap does. Yes, it is a nod to the fans who know what happens in the comics. It's also foreshadowing.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Lots of characters have held the shield over the movies. But Bucky has had in in every movie he's appeared in, and he's framed with it as if it belongs to him. He's the only character who holds it like Cap does. Yes, it is a nod to the fans who know what happens in the comics. It's also foreshadowing.

Agree to disagree on this one. I don't see it as foreshadowing. Just a simple easter egg.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Bucky is just not popular enough to be Captain America in the movie world.

I'm not sure what you're basing that on.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Agree to disagree on this one. I don't see it as foreshadowing. Just a simple easter egg.

Maybe, but an Easter egg is a hidden thing in a movie you have to look for. Bucky holding the shield is not that. It's clear shots of him holding the shield.

Maybe that's just me being semantic, but you know what I mean.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Maybe, but an Easter egg is a hidden thing in a movie you have to look for. Bucky holding the shield is not that. It's clear shots of him holding the shield.

Maybe that's just me being semantic, but you know what I mean.

Plenty of MCU easter eggs have been highly focused and in your face. Remember the Watchers in Guardians 2? Means nothing.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Plenty of MCU easter eggs have been highly focused and in your face. Remember the Watchers in Guardians 2? Means nothing.

Granted but that was a throwaway nod to fans in the comedic post-credit sequence. We're talking about Bucky, in the middle of dramatic action scenes, picking up the shield and being framed holding it like Cap.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Granted but that was a throwaway nod to fans in the comedic post-credit sequence. We're talking about Bucky, in the middle of dramatic action scenes, picking up the shield and being framed holding it like Cap.

I mean, it is a shield and he is a trained fighter. There is only a handful of ways he is going to hold a shield.

 

[Dasher10]

I thought they were great and I liked Ant-Man more than I thought I would since he's a B-list hero who can't support his own title for more than a few issues.

Also, my predictions for who will die in Avengers 3 and 4 is Vision in Infinity War and Hulk, Cap, Iron Man, and War Machine in 4. Vision since Thanos needs the Mind Gem and I don't see him surviving. Hulk due to Mark Rufallo's age and Universal's inability to play ball with Marvel on any sort of solo film. Cap since Evans wants out of his contract and Sebastian Stan's contract has always been longer so it's clear where they're going. Iron Man since Downey wants out and he's getting too expensive. Hawkeye since he's so outclassed by every single other hero. Finally, War Machine due to Don Cheadle's age although he may just be recast since in the comics, he becomes Iron Man while Tony deals with alcoholism, again when Tony gets paralyzed and yet again when Tony Stark is presumed dead. In the same way that Iron Fist will take over as Daredevil, War Machine has a long history of taking over for Tony Stark. Cheadle also doesn't look his age so maybe he'll hang on to the role but the rest are absolutely goners.

Keep in mind that many of these characters will likely be brought back to life in the future with new actors. I don't see them staying dead forever and there are ways that this will likely happen based on how it happened in the comics.

Vision will be rebuilt. Hulk will be resurrected by a Gama Bomb detonated outside of Las Vegas by the Leader. Hulk is now a new version of himself called Joe Fixit who's less CGI and more grey bodypaint. Captain America through some sort of time travel. Iron Man will be revealed to have faked his death. Hawkeye will come back when Doctor Doom gets the Scarlet Witch to slam the MCU face-first into the X-Men continuity. Finally, War Machine will be converted into a cyborg. I feel like Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Falcon and Thor will be the only Avengers from Phases 1 and 2 to survive until Phase 4.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

I mean, it is a shield and he is a trained fighter. There is only a handful of ways he is going to hold a shield.

But you don't need to have him even get the shield at all. You don't need that written into the script unless it's for a reason. And it happens in every movie he's in.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

But you don't need to have him even get the shield at all. You don't need that written into the script unless it's for a reason. And it happens in every movie he's in.

Is it possible that Captain Rogers falls in one of the next two Avengers films and Bucky picks up the shield to continue the fight? Yes, but would that be played up anymore than a rifleman in a war movie who pulls a dead machine gunner off of his weapon to fight with machine gun instead of his rifle. And then the telling point does Bucky put on the red, white and blue as well as carry the shield and be called Captain America by other characters in the next fight?

 

[Spider-Fan]

But you don't need to have him even get the shield at all. You don't need that written into the script unless it's for a reason. And it happens in every movie he's in.

Every movie Cap has been in, another person, not just Bucky, had the shield at one point or another.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Every movie Cap has been in, another person, not just Bucky, had the shield at one point or another.

I know, but Bucky has held it, and been clearly framed holding and using it like Cap, every time he has appeared.

Anyway, we'll find out soon, hopefully. Or maybe in a year. God Bless you, Cap. Sniff.

 

[Boy Scout]

I think it’s far more likely Bucky will become the White Wolf.

 

[DrCosmic]

^Bucky already *is* the White Wolf.

Lots of characters have held the shield over the movies. But Bucky has had in in every movie he's appeared in, and he's framed with it as if it belongs to him. He's the only character who holds it like Cap does. Yes, it is a nod to the fans who know what happens in the comics. It's also foreshadowing.

So... you have an explanation for why it's there, but you say "no, it's more than that." Why?

The problem with BuckyCap in the MCU is that Bucky is a character we see over and over again as a third spy-type after Steve and Nat, but doesn't have nearly the character development they have. So if you have to do one spy movie for Phase IV, do you BuckyCap or Black Widow? Or do you say F it and do two spy films in your big superhero megafranchise and leave all your sequels to successful franchises and new franchises that take the universe in new directions delayed so that you can tell another Captain America story with a Captain America who simply doesn't have the heart.

As much as the shield carrying *could* be foreshadowing, it doesn't change the fact that Bucky is absolutely a supporting character, from start to finish. If he's Cap, he's a supporting character version of Captain America, like Tony post-IM3. Yes, he *could* be developed into a full independent character the way Steve was, but only at the expense of developing characters who stand on their own and open new doors.

 

[Spider-Fan]

^Bucky already *is* the White Wolf.



So... you have an explanation for why it's there, but you say "no, it's more than that." Why?

The problem with BuckyCap in the MCU is that Bucky is a character we see over and over again as a third spy-type after Steve and Nat, but doesn't have nearly the character development they have. So if you have to do one spy movie for Phase IV, do you BuckyCap or Black Widow? Or do you say F it and do two spy films in your big superhero megafranchise and leave all your sequels to successful franchises and new franchises that take the universe in new directions delayed so that you can tell another Captain America story with a Captain America who simply doesn't have the heart.

As much as the shield carrying *could* be foreshadowing, it doesn't change the fact that Bucky is absolutely a supporting character, from start to finish. If he's Cap, he's a supporting character version of Captain America, like Tony post-IM3. Yes, he *could* be developed into a full independent character the way Steve was, but only at the expense of developing characters who stand on their own and open new doors.

So much agreement

The leader of the next Avengers team I think no doubt will be Captain Marvel.

 

[MbJ]

I don't think Bucky will become Captain America, simply due to the fact that Sebastian Stan isn't a natural born American, and I would think that is a must when casting any Captain American part.

Why on god's green earth would that matter?

 

[Big Bang]

So much agreement

The leader of the next Avengers team I think no doubt will be Captain Marvel.

Agree. Ultimately I think replacing Steve Rodgers with anyone just to fill the role of Captain America is unnecessary. Especially when Marvel Studios can introduce different characters into a leadership role.

I'm anticipating Captain Marvel to make a pretty good splash in the same vein as Wonder Woman and Blank Panther. Just let her shine as her own character and give her a leading role in the Avengers.

 

[Bayne]

I'm loving all the new characters. Spider-man is finally done right on screen, Black Panther is almost as awesome as Captain America, Dr. Strange was very fun if not amazing, Ant-Man had some poor writing in his own movie but visually he's one of the most fun to watch heroes in the MCU and Civil War proved that the character is also plenty of fun when well written, and Captain Marvel certainly looks like she shaping up well.

As for the fate of the old guard:

I expect both Stark and Cap to die, though not necessarily in the same movie. I do also expect Downey to 100% continue as a recurring character in the form of the Stark AI - it's the perfect way to keep him around without letting his fees wreck every budget and to let him continue even past the time when he becomes rather unbelievable as an action hero age-wise. I also think there's a real possibility Evans could have some posthumus cameos, too, but probably in the form of flashbacks (and probably only if Marvel does do a Legacy cap movie starring either Bucky or Falcon).

I do 100% expect the Cap legacy to be carried forward beyond his death. I think that's literally the entire point of Cap's character and it's exactly where his trilogy has been leading the whole time. Whether it happens in a new Captain America series or simply as a background arc in Avengers movies is up in the air.

I don't see Hulk dying, ever. Not dying is basically his superpower. Thanos obviously could just write him out of existence (and may very well do so, temporarily) but for that to lead to his permanent death would be an incredibly lame exit. And anyway, Hulk is still working quite well as a floating support character. I could see Banner maybe finding some kind of cure, but with the caveat that it may very well prove temporary, as well.

Thor I find hard to predict. I don't really see him dying, but I don't really see him sticking around either, but it also seems questionable to what extent he'll even have an Asgard to lead after these movies.

Hawkeye could go in any direction.

Black Widow is definitely safe.

War Machine, Falcon and Bucky are definitely safe. Other supporting characters could be in danger, or not.

Then there's the guardians... Drax and Nebula realistically should be in massive danger, but I'm just not sure if Marvel will go there or not. The rest of them are probably safe, though killing Star-Lord would be the ultimate WtF moment.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

^Bucky already *is* the White Wolf.



So... you have an explanation for why it's there, but you say "no, it's more than that." Why?

The problem with BuckyCap in the MCU is that Bucky is a character we see over and over again as a third spy-type after Steve and Nat, but doesn't have nearly the character development they have. So if you have to do one spy movie for Phase IV, do you BuckyCap or Black Widow? Or do you say F it and do two spy films in your big superhero megafranchise and leave all your sequels to successful franchises and new franchises that take the universe in new directions delayed so that you can tell another Captain America story with a Captain America who simply doesn't have the heart.

As much as the shield carrying *could* be foreshadowing, it doesn't change the fact that Bucky is absolutely a supporting character, from start to finish. If he's Cap, he's a supporting character version of Captain America, like Tony post-IM3. Yes, he *could* be developed into a full independent character the way Steve was, but only at the expense of developing characters who stand on their own and open new doors.

I think you're misunderstanding slightly.

I haven't said I think Sebastian Stan will star in future Captain America movies and Avengers movies - although he did intriguingly sign a nine film contract to Chris Evan's six film one (Infinity War will be Stan's fourth). All I am saying is that he will become Captain America after Rogers dies. Maybe he'll only don the red and blue suit and shield for the final battle against Thanos. Or maybe the final battle of Avengers 4. Or maybe he'll go on to be Cap in the Avengers, but not the leader of the Avengers, as in the comics Cap hasn't always led the Avengers by default.

The movies have shown Bucky and Cap in WWII. They've shown Bucky's supposed death. They've shown the Winter Soldier. They've shown Bucky slowly realising who he is and what's be done to him. All this is from the comics. Why would they not complete the arc and have Bucky become Cap himself? The answer is, they will, and they've been foreshadowing that since 2011.

So the MCU is following the comicbook arc for Bucky, they have foreshadowed him becoming Cap, and Stan has a nine film contract of which Infinity War will be the fourth.

 

[Thör-El]

Guardians of the Galaxy - Great casting, great writing, two of the best MCU films. They're their own thing in the MCU though so I don't see them as replacements for the Avengers.

Spider-Man - Great casting but I didn't love Homecoming. The potential's there for him to headline an Avengers film. He has Cap style heart, Bruce Banner style modest genius and he can quip with the best of them. The youth and secret identity bring in a whole new dynamic though.

Black Panther - Great casting, great film. Captain America style superhuman martial artist with Stark style resources/tech to throw behind the team.

Doctor Strange - Great casting, shame they didn't let Cumberbatch keep his own accent. The film was cool too. Like with the Guardians he adds another dimension to the MCU but I don't know if he fits in with every Avengers story.

Ant-Man - Comic or film I've never really liked the character or his powers that much. His film's a likable comedy, I'm sure the next one will be too but I don't really want him in the Avengers films going forward. The Wasp on the other hand....

Winter Soldier and Falcon - Both characters I like in their current roles, Sam's a strong supporting character and Bucky's had a great arc. I'm not totally sold on either taking over as Cap though.

Valkyrie - I really liked her in Ragnarok, Tessa Thompson's brilliant. If she doesn't stay as a Thor supporting character then I have an easier time picturing her joining the Guardians of the Galaxy than the Avengers.

 

[DrCosmic]

The movies have shown Bucky and Cap in WWII. They've shown Bucky's supposed death. They've shown the Winter Soldier. They've shown Bucky slowly realising who he is and what's be done to him. All this is from the comics. Why would they not complete the arc and have Bucky become Cap himself? The answer is, they will, and they've been foreshadowing that since 2011.

So the MCU is following the comicbook arc for Bucky, they have foreshadowed him becoming Cap, and Stan has a nine film contract of which Infinity War will be the fourth.

Thank you for the clarification, and a fuller reasoning. So *just* dealing with the Cap bit, we know that the MCU is not just following the comic book arc for Bucky, he's White Wolf now. They have foreshadowed him wielding the shield, perhaps, but like his nine film contract, whether that necessarily correlates to him being Captain America is circumstantial, an assumption that is not explicitly supported.

The biggest thing about Bucky's arc is that it is framed entirely in its meaningfulness to Steve and at times Sam. This means Bucky's arc with Steve ends just as well with Bucky finally getting to rest and be a normal guy while having the shield up on his wall as it does having him wield the shield in combat as White Wolf or Winter Soldier or Captain America or whatever.

I'm not saying your idea isn't possible, but it's far FAR from a foregone conclusion, and while very fulfilling in the comics, it's not nearly as fulfilling based on what we see in the films.

 

[jaqua99]

Their first films definitely made more money than the first's big four. Ant-Man both outgrossed Hulk/First Avenger, Dr. Strange made more money than Thor and black Panther will soon outcross Avengers 1 in North America. While Captain Marvel would probably perform better than the first films of the bug four minus Iron Man.

I just hope when Ms finally introduces F4/XM, the films would be as successful as the biggest MCU movies.

But the MCU was not established with the first big four's.For the MCU, in terms of cultural impact and popularity, there is definitely a before and after Avengers 1