How do you feel about Marvel's second wave heroes?

[MbJ]

For the MCU, in terms of cultural impact and popularity, there is definitely a before and after Avengers 1

They have Black Panther, which turned out to be a cultural touchstone moment unlike anything in superhero films in quite some time. And while not nearly as successful, both Doctor Strange and Ant-Man did well at the Box office as well. Captain Marvel's pretty much a guaranteed hit right now.

I strongly suspect that a secondary goal of Infinity War and IW is to give audiences a bigger exposure to the newer characters to prepare them for a transition from the first team to the next generation of Avengers. Notice how prominently Spider-Man, Black Panther and Doctor Strange are featured in the trailers and TV spots.

 

[parkerpete]

They have Black Panther, which turned out to be a cultural touchstone moment unlike anything in superhero films in quite some time. And while not nearly as successful, both Doctor Strange and Ant-Man did well at the Box office as well. Captain Marvel's pretty much a guaranteed hit right now.

I strongly suspect that a secondary goal of Infinity War and IW is to give audiences a bigger exposure to the newer characters to prepare them for a transition from the first team to the new guys. Notice how prominently Spider-Man, Black Panther and Doctor Strange are featured in the trailers and TV spots.

I'm a fan of the new guys, but it is really hard to imagine the MCU without the funny/serious anchors of Downey and Evans. But in Feige I trust.

Right now I'm most disappointed that Ant-Man isn't in IW. He was a highlight of Civil War and I was really looking forward to seeing Giant-Man beat down some alien fools in a cosmic setting.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

I'm a fan of the new guys, but it is really hard to imagine the MCU without the funny/serious anchors of Downey and Evans. But in Feige I trust.

Right now I'm most disappointed that Ant-Man isn't in IW. He was a highlight of Civil War and I was really looking forward to seeing Giant-Man beat down some alien fools in a cosmic setting.

Well seeing as he could leads a movie in a few weeks we can't have everything. I do remember watching Civil War with a largely children's audience and Ant-Man along with Spider-Man got the biggest responses

 

[MbJ]

BTW I'm suspecting even if Iron Man or Cap (or both) I do think some of the originals will be kept around. I could see Thor and Hulk remaining occasional guest stars.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Thank you for the clarification, and a fuller reasoning. So *just* dealing with the Cap bit, we know that the MCU is not just following the comic book arc for Bucky, he's White Wolf now. They have foreshadowed him wielding the shield, perhaps, but like his nine film contract, whether that necessarily correlates to him being Captain America is circumstantial, an assumption that is not explicitly supported.

Of course it's not supported yet, because we haven't seen Bucky become Cap yet. But as I say, it's been foreshadowed it every film Bucky has been in. It happens in the comics. And we know Chris Evans will be done after Avengers 4, while Sebastian Stan will still have movie left on his MCU contract.

Feige has said Infinity War is about paying off things that have been set up in all the previous movies.

Bucky's arc with Steve ends just as well with Bucky finally getting to rest and be a normal guy

Do you really think that would be a effective ending? Or would it be more effective to follow Ed Brubacker's comics - which the Cap movies have been hugely influenced by -and have Bucky carry on the legacy of Cap himself?

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think you're misunderstanding slightly.

I haven't said I think Sebastian Stan will star in future Captain America movies and Avengers movies - although he did intriguingly sign a nine film contract to Chris Evan's six film one (Infinity War will be Stan's fourth). All I am saying is that he will become Captain America after Rogers dies. Maybe he'll only don the red and blue suit and shield for the final battle against Thanos. Or maybe the final battle of Avengers 4. Or maybe he'll go on to be Cap in the Avengers, but not the leader of the Avengers, as in the comics Cap hasn't always led the Avengers by default.

The movies have shown Bucky and Cap in WWII. They've shown Bucky's supposed death. They've shown the Winter Soldier. They've shown Bucky slowly realising who he is and what's be done to him. All this is from the comics. Why would they not complete the arc and have Bucky become Cap himself? The answer is, they will, and they've been foreshadowing that since 2011.

So the MCU is following the comicbook arc for Bucky, they have foreshadowed him becoming Cap, and Stan has a nine film contract of which Infinity War will be the fourth.

Evans was offered a 9 picture deal and turned it down multiple times. Then he agreed upon a 6 picture deal. So, he was offered same contract length Stan was.

 

[DrCosmic]

EDIT:^Spidey coming in with the clutch facts.

Of course it's not supported yet, because we haven't seen Bucky become Cap yet. But as I say, it's been foreshadowed it every film Bucky has been in. It happens in the comics. And we know Chris Evans will be done after Avengers 4, while Sebastian Stan will still have movie left on his MCU contract.

Do you really think that would be a effective ending? Or would it be more effective to follow Ed Brubacker's comics - which the Cap movies have been hugely influenced by -and have Bucky carry on the legacy of Cap himself?

They were able to foreshadow Bucky having the shield even though it hasn't happened yet, they could just as easily foreshadow him having some other attributes of Captain America, but nothing other than having the shield has been foreshadowed, because nothing else is important for his arc.

Him having more movies left is interesting, but that's a far cry from MCU White Wolf being 616 BuckyCap, because they are different characters important ways. MCU's White Wolf doesn't live in a world of legacy characters, neither can he share an organization with Tony Stark because he killed his parents. There's no doubt Brubaker's run is important, but important is not the same as canon. Crucial divergences have happened, and these trends away from BuckyCap are only likely to grow.

EDIT: If we're going with foreshadowing, every movie Sam Wilson has been in, he's foreshadowed that he's going to keep doing Captain America-type things.
"Don't Look at me, I do what he does only slower."
"people who shoot at you usually wind up shooting at me too."
Defending the Avengers base in Ant-Man, recruiting Ant-Man.
Laying on the wire (and leading others to) for Cap and Bucky to escape

If we were to pick a character whose arc could most suitably lead into Captain America's *role* in the Avengers in terms of leading tactically, inspiring and just doing the darndest rightest thing with no pretense, who would that be? Because it ain't Bucky Barnes.

Consider for a moment that maybe... *just* maybe these two characters are being set up to be a duo.

 

[parkerpete]

Wow. I hadn't really considered it before but I'd definitely be into a Falcon & Soldier adventure. They have been developing a nice mismatched buddy-cop vibe.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Evans was offered a 9 picture deal and turned it down multiple times. Then he agreed upon a 6 picture deal. So, he was offered same contract length Stan was.

I know. But you've still got Stan around for a number of movies after Cap has capped it.

 

[Set]

Wow. I hadn't really considered it before but I'd definitely be into a Falcon & Soldier adventure. They have been developing a nice mismatched buddy-cop vibe.

I'd definitely be up for that. Other Cap-adjacent characters, like Sharon Carter/Agent 13, could also logically flow into that sort of thing.

I'm not sure if I want *anyone* picking up the shield, at least for a first post-Captain America movie. Have it be some heavy mantle that nobody feels up to picking up, more a McGuffin (or character in it's own right), than an accessory to be passed on.

 

[parkerpete]

I'd definitely be up for that. Other Cap-adjacent characters, like Sharon Carter/Agent 13, could also logically flow into that sort of thing.

I'm not sure if I want *anyone* picking up the shield, at least for a first post-Captain America movie. Have it be some heavy mantle that nobody feels up to picking up, more a McGuffin (or character in it's own right), than an accessory to be passed on.

Re-watched Civil War for the millionth time and it really struck me how the Russos made a point of pairing WS and Falcon. Especially in the airport battle when they get their little moment to get their butts kicked by Spider-Man and bicker about it.

The great thing with Marvel's production architecture is that they've become so good at seeding this kind of stuff with the audience that I didn't even notice it the first few times I watched CW but it seems obvious now. I really think that's where they're going.

I can definitely see a WS/Falcon or maybe a Widow/WS/Falcon movie at this point.

 

[Popndough]

Wow. I hadn't really considered it before but I'd definitely be into a Falcon & Soldier adventure. They have been developing a nice mismatched buddy-cop vibe.

Ha! You beat me to it. I was getting ready to post this exact thing as I read this thread.

I was gonna say I don't care who becomes Cap as long as we get more Falcon-Bucky team-ups.

If one of them becomes Cap, I have to believe it will because Steve asks them to on his deathbed. I don't think either of them would take up the mantle otherwise.