The Dark Knight Rises How Important is physical portrayals in this movie?

[chamber-music]

Physical appearance is important but not the be all and end all of a character. Lets be honest most superheroes and supervillians are these huge muscle bound tall adonises. The vast majority of actors let alone regular people look like this. Actors can do their best to gain this look by woking out but they will never really look exactly like these characters.

If superheroe movies where cast by looks alone most films would be filled with nothing but wrestlers and models which might look good but would be terrible.

 

[chamber-music]

I mean, if you look at the physics of it all, Juggernaut and Hulk would still have to be at least ten times their size if one wasn't powered by some magical crystal and the other wasn't "gamma charged". Also with Magneto, despite most often being depicted as a middle-aged or older man, was depicted always as anything short of being bodybuilder sized. They do that for most characters because it's the only real thing you can do to connect that person to the page outside of the words.

Also Magneto isn't even a physical Supervillain/hero. He relies on his powers more than anything so him being built like a bodybulier especially when his supposed to be grandfather aged is kind of funny even arnold swarchenegger isn't that ripped anymore and his 64.

 

[Motown Marvel]

This is Nolan's interpretation of the Batman Universe.

Meaning, he doesn't have to follow the strict guidelines -- one being the iconography of the characters.

Speaking as huge Ra's al Ghul fan and a massive Bane fan, the costume designs have had little to no negative impact on my perception of the film series. The only design that bugged me was Scarecrow's, and it wasn't substantial enough to deflate the character's portrayal and the film's performance.

I'm a firm believer in the character coming first. The costumes and size/height, not so much. This is an adaptation.

yes, its nolan's interpretation, and i would hope that he would perform with respect to the source material that he's been given the opportunity to interpret. if he decides to stray too far from that, that's his decision, but at a certain point people will get displeased with that.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

yes, its nolan's interpretation, and i would hope that he would perform with respect to the source material that he's been given the opportunity to interpret. if he decides to stray too far from that, that's his decision, but at a certain point people will get displeased with that.

To each of their own, I suppose.

I've, personally, appreciated all of Nolan's costume designs -- especially Bane's. The Venom Tubes and Luchador Mask really held him back, but that's just me

Well fans should fully be aware by now that Nolan isn't going down the road in where Burton and Schumacher traveled. It would refute and contradict the universe that Christopher created for this series. If the hardcore fans find it a disservice, then I petty them.

This isn't to state that I believe Nolan's realm is 'realistic' because it's obviously not, but a permawhite Joker (unless he's an Albino ), an immortal Ra's al Ghul, a 9ft 500lb Bane, etc is a little too fantasy-based for me in a film where Nolan has already established the setting and tone.

 

[NolansKnight]

Don’t think a lot needs to be said as we can all see our scrawny Batman and a short stocky Bale.

Wait, huh?

Bale is a LEGIT 6'1 (stood next to him, I'm 5'11) ... that's w/o the Bat-suit. With the Bat-suit he is over 6'2 slightly. Comic Wayne is 6'2. There isn't a huge difference.

Keaton, the last serious interpretation of Batman, was a 35+ year old, scrawny, 5'9 ... not very handsome, going bald interpretation of Batman. Clooney was even shorter, Kilmer, the tallest but has no phsyical presence. He's got the surfer boy look, and it isn't intimidating in the slightest.

Bale is the only one who is the perfect storm. Acting wise, and physically. He has the intensity in the eyes of Keaton, the interesting look of the face ... the sharp angle cheek bones looks down right frightening, the handsome looks to be a playboy of Clooney and Kilmer, and like I said the first Batman actor to have a physical presence that is intimidating.

Even in non movie based photos, on set, in borad daylight no less ... he looks actually menacing. Bale as an actor is a very intense guy.

But the physical potrayl extends beyond size. It's mannerisms to nuance a performance. Bale's Batman doesn't stand and walk in a normal fashion akin to the previous 3 actors (though in Keaton's case, the costume limited him greatly, you can even tell in the few action scenes that isn't him doing coreography for the fights in the suit ... it's actually jarring as you can tell it ISN'T him) ...

But Bale's physical potrayl is in his acting. He presents Batman as an actual creature, not just some dude in a suit. The growl (however polarizing it might be), crouching on railings and rooftops, him hanging upside down before attacking (like a bat), attacking from the shadows then retreating, the use of the cape as bat-wings ... he presents himself as a man / bat creature. Even when walking he has this lean that indicates he is always ready to pounce on you. As if he's on edge.

Ledger's Joker, has nuanced mannerisms too. He's the tallest actor to play the Joker. He's wirey and lanky like the Joker (he was about Bale's height), but he also had a raw physical power about him that the original interpretation of the Joker had in Batman #1. He can handle himself. The creepy limp walk, the slumping of the shoulders. He added the nuance of licking the scars and lips, which is a characteristic people with that type of scar actually do ... and it adds to the whole "mad dog" angle, someone hungry for chaos and violence.

Neeson's Ra's, carried himself with a nobility, and superior than thou physical performance. Very much reflective of the character. Great posture, etc.

Now Bane, we get a dark reflection of Batman. Having seen the prologue and trailer, he too has the same posture of looking ready to pounce on someone physically, but it's the coldness in the gaze, of someone who simply doesn't value human life. Almost machine like (plays into the mask and anesthetic that makes him feel no pain) ... the voice that sounds mechanical and soul-less.

All brillaint actor potrayls.

 

[EliteF50]

Wait, huh?

Bale is a LEGIT 6'1 (stood next to him, I'm 5'11) ... that's w/o the Bat-suit. With the Bat-suit he is over 6'2 slightly. Comic Wayne is 6'2. There isn't a huge difference.

Keaton, the last serious interpretation of Batman, was a 35+ year old, scrawny, 5'9 ... not very handsome, going bald interpretation of Batman. Clooney was even shorter, Kilmer, the tallest but has no phsyical presence. He's got the surfer boy look, and it isn't intimidating in the slightest.

Bale is the only one who is the perfect storm. Acting wise, and physically. He has the intensity in the eyes of Keaton, the interesting look of the face ... the sharp angle cheek bones looks down right frightening, the handsome looks to be a playboy of Clooney and Kilmer, and like I said the first Batman actor to have a physical presence that is intimidating.

Even in non movie based photos, on set, in borad daylight no less ... he looks actually menacing. Bale as an actor is a very intense guy.

But the physical potrayl extends beyond size. It's mannerisms to nuance a performance. Bale's Batman doesn't stand and walk in a normal fashion akin to the previous 3 actors (though in Keaton's case, the costume limited him greatly, you can even tell in the few action scenes that isn't him doing coreography for the fights in the suit ... it's actually jarring as you can tell it ISN'T him) ...

But Bale's physical potrayl is in his acting. He presents Batman as an actual creature, not just some dude in a suit. The growl (however polarizing it might be), crouching on railings and rooftops, him hanging upside down before attacking (like a bat), attacking from the shadows then retreating, the use of the cape as bat-wings ... he presents himself as a man / bat creature. Even when walking he has this lean that indicates he is always ready to pounce on you. As if he's on edge.

Ledger's Joker, has nuanced mannerisms too. He's the tallest actor to play the Joker. He's wirey and lanky like the Joker (he was about Bale's height), but he also had a raw physical power about him that the original interpretation of the Joker had in Batman #1. He can handle himself. The creepy limp walk, the slumping of the shoulders. He added the nuance of licking the scars and lips, which is a characteristic people with that type of scar actually do ... and it adds to the whole "mad dog" angle, someone hungry for chaos and violence.

Neeson's Ra's, carried himself with a nobility, and superior than thou physical performance. Very much reflective of the character. Great posture, etc.

Now Bane, we get a dark reflection of Batman. Having seen the prologue and trailer, he too has the same posture of looking ready to pounce on someone physically, but it's the coldness in the gaze, of someone who simply doesn't value human life. Almost machine like (plays into the mask and anesthetic that makes him feel no pain) ... the voice that sounds mechanical and soul-less.

All brillaint actor potrayls.

Great post. But Keaton is pretty handsome.

 

[KalMart]

Wait, huh?

Bale is a LEGIT 6'1 (stood next to him, I'm 5'11) ... that's w/o the Bat-suit. With the Bat-suit he is over 6'2 slightly. Comic Wayne is 6'2. There isn't a huge difference.

Keaton, the last serious interpretation of Batman, was a 35+ year old, scrawny, 5'9 ... not very handsome, going bald interpretation of Batman. Clooney was even shorter, Kilmer, the tallest but has no phsyical presence. He's got the surfer boy look, and it isn't intimidating in the slightest.

Bale is the only one who is the perfect storm. Acting wise, and physically. He has the intensity in the eyes of Keaton, the interesting look of the face ... the sharp angle cheek bones looks down right frightening, the handsome looks to be a playboy of Clooney and Kilmer, and like I said the first Batman actor to have a physical presence that is intimidating.

Even in non movie based photos, on set, in borad daylight no less ... he looks actually menacing. Bale as an actor is a very intense guy.

But the physical potrayl extends beyond size. It's mannerisms to nuance a performance. Bale's Batman doesn't stand and walk in a normal fashion akin to the previous 3 actors (though in Keaton's case, the costume limited him greatly, you can even tell in the few action scenes that isn't him doing coreography for the fights in the suit ... it's actually jarring as you can tell it ISN'T him) ...

But Bale's physical potrayl is in his acting. He presents Batman as an actual creature, not just some dude in a suit. The growl (however polarizing it might be), crouching on railings and rooftops, him hanging upside down before attacking (like a bat), attacking from the shadows then retreating, the use of the cape as bat-wings ... he presents himself as a man / bat creature. Even when walking he has this lean that indicates he is always ready to pounce on you. As if he's on edge.

Ledger's Joker, has nuanced mannerisms too. He's the tallest actor to play the Joker. He's wirey and lanky like the Joker (he was about Bale's height), but he also had a raw physical power about him that the original interpretation of the Joker had in Batman #1. He can handle himself. The creepy limp walk, the slumping of the shoulders. He added the nuance of licking the scars and lips, which is a characteristic people with that type of scar actually do ... and it adds to the whole "mad dog" angle, someone hungry for chaos and violence.

Neeson's Ra's, carried himself with a nobility, and superior than thou physical performance. Very much reflective of the character. Great posture, etc.

Now Bane, we get a dark reflection of Batman. Having seen the prologue and trailer, he too has the same posture of looking ready to pounce on someone physically, but it's the coldness in the gaze, of someone who simply doesn't value human life. Almost machine like (plays into the mask and anesthetic that makes him feel no pain) ... the voice that sounds mechanical and soul-less.

All brillaint actor potrayls.

I met Bale in LA some years back, and to me he is barely over 5' 11"...so either he's grown since then...or you've shrunk.

But seriously, in that range those few inches don't matter as much. The only issue with Bale is that he doesn't really look tall with his proportions and large head-size. But I think the slimmer he stays, the more it helps his sense of height which they've done for Batman movies 2 & 3. Heck, Hardy's proportions always make him look short, but it seems they're helping some of that with camera perspective et al.

Kilmer probably had the best frame out of all the Batmans...but that beady-eyed face of his....

 

[NolansKnight]

I met Bale in LA some years back, and to me he is barely over 5' 11"...so either he's grown since then...or you've shrunk.

Or maybe you just don't know you're own actual height

Even if he's barely over 5'11, that's 6' ... with the bat-suit, he is easily then 6'2.

I am 5'11 and I have a picture of myself w/ Gordon (Oldman, who is like 5'9 / 5'10) I could upload on the boards here sometime, and I am leaning and I am like an inch taller than him.

And Bale was at the very least half a forehead taller than me.

Kilmer probably had the best frame out of all the Batmans...but that beady-eyed face of his....

Hardly ... Bale has enough height, plus a stocky (yet not too stocky) build. That gives what looks like power.

Kilmer had broad shoulders, but tiny powerless arms in comparison to Bale. And like I said, his hair, his face, his body ... he just screams California surfer boy. Not Batman.

In fact the best characters Kilmer has ever played is spacey, aloof, surfer boy type characters.

 

[KalMart]

Or maybe you just don't know you're own actual height

No...I'm spot-on when it comes to that and comparisons, actually. He was wearing pretty thin-soled shoes, too.

Even if he's barely over 5'11, that's 6' ... with the bat-suit, he is easily then 6'2.

Like I said, and inch or so here or there at that height doesn't make a world of difference. A simple pair of thick-soled shoes, and he's 6' 2" for all intents and purposes.

I am 5'11 and I have a picture of myself w/ Gordon (Oldman), who is like 5'9 / 5'10 I could upload on the boards here sometime, and I am leaning and I am like an inch taller than him. And Bale was at the very least half a forehead taller than me.


Hardly ... Bale has enough height, plus a stocky (yet not too stocky) build. That gives what looks like power.

Kilmer had broad shoulders, but tiny powerless arms in comparison to Bale. And like I said, his hair, his face, his body ... he just screams California surfer boy. Not Batman.

In fact the best characters Kilmer has ever played is spacey, aloof, surfer boy type characters.

Nah...Bale's head-size and shoulder width work against him, height-wise, when he puts on muscle...as opposed to someone like, say, Hugh Jackman...who always looks tall and broad. Even Chris Evans, who's only around 6', has a taller look/proportion about him. And the guy who played Thor. Less about actual height, more about frames.

Kilmer was wrong on a lot of counts, but again, if we're just talking frame-wise, he had probably the best basic frame/proportions of them all. But...that face....

But again, Bale looked too stocky/barely in BB...I like that they slimmed him down for the other movies...and the second suit helps, too. But no real matter...put it this way, if there are things that most people pick at in the Nolan Batman movies...the height/physicality is probably very low on the list.

 

[SatEL]

Wait, huh?

Bale is a LEGIT 6'1 (stood next to him, I'm 5'11) ... that's w/o the Bat-suit. With the Bat-suit he is over 6'2 slightly. Comic Wayne is 6'2. There isn't a huge difference.

Keaton, the last serious interpretation of Batman, was a 35+ year old, scrawny, 5'9 ... not very handsome, going bald interpretation of Batman. Clooney was even shorter, Kilmer, the tallest but has no phsyical presence. He's got the surfer boy look, and it isn't intimidating in the slightest.

Bale is the only one who is the perfect storm. Acting wise, and physically. He has the intensity in the eyes of Keaton, the interesting look of the face ... the sharp angle cheek bones looks down right frightening, the handsome looks to be a playboy of Clooney and Kilmer, and like I said the first Batman actor to have a physical presence that is intimidating.

Even in non movie based photos, on set, in borad daylight no less ... he looks actually menacing. Bale as an actor is a very intense guy.

But the physical potrayl extends beyond size. It's mannerisms to nuance a performance. Bale's Batman doesn't stand and walk in a normal fashion akin to the previous 3 actors (though in Keaton's case, the costume limited him greatly, you can even tell in the few action scenes that isn't him doing coreography for the fights in the suit ... it's actually jarring as you can tell it ISN'T him) ...

But Bale's physical potrayl is in his acting. He presents Batman as an actual creature, not just some dude in a suit. The growl (however polarizing it might be), crouching on railings and rooftops, him hanging upside down before attacking (like a bat), attacking from the shadows then retreating, the use of the cape as bat-wings ... he presents himself as a man / bat creature. Even when walking he has this lean that indicates he is always ready to pounce on you. As if he's on edge.

Ledger's Joker, has nuanced mannerisms too. He's the tallest actor to play the Joker. He's wirey and lanky like the Joker (he was about Bale's height), but he also had a raw physical power about him that the original interpretation of the Joker had in Batman #1. He can handle himself. The creepy limp walk, the slumping of the shoulders. He added the nuance of licking the scars and lips, which is a characteristic people with that type of scar actually do ... and it adds to the whole "mad dog" angle, someone hungry for chaos and violence.

Neeson's Ra's, carried himself with a nobility, and superior than thou physical performance. Very much reflective of the character. Great posture, etc.

Now Bane, we get a dark reflection of Batman. Having seen the prologue and trailer, he too has the same posture of looking ready to pounce on someone physically, but it's the coldness in the gaze, of someone who simply doesn't value human life. Almost machine like (plays into the mask and anesthetic that makes him feel no pain) ... the voice that sounds mechanical and soul-less.

All brillaint actor potrayls.

Sorry for the confusion I meant Bane not Bale, and despite my views on the size of Bane anf Batman I am sure this is still going to be an awesome movie.

 

[Motown Marvel]

To each of their own, I suppose.

I've, personally, appreciated all of Nolan's costume designs -- especially Bane's. The Venom Tubes and Luchador Mask really held him back, but that's just me

Well fans should fully be aware by now that Nolan isn't going down the road in where Burton and Schumacher traveled. It would refute and contradict the universe that Christopher created for this series. If the hardcore fans find it a disservice, then I petty them.

This isn't to state that I believe Nolan's realm is 'realistic' because it's obviously not, but a permawhite Joker (unless he's an Albino ), an immortal Ra's al Ghul, a 9ft 500lb Bane, etc is a little too fantasy-based for me in a film where Nolan has already established the setting and tone.

i dont expect or need the characters to be replicas of the source material. but even on their own, i find nolan's character designs not very appealing. i think all of them could not only be better, but also closer to their source.

 

[NolansKnight]

i think all of them could not only be better, but also closer to their source.

Like when you claimed you could write a better script than Batman Begins. Remember those days? So how is your life as a film maker / writer going?

 

[Motown Marvel]

Like when you claimed you could write a better script than Batman Begins. Remember those days? So how is your life as a film maker / writer going?

im not making any claims other than my opinion of nolans costume designs arent really inspiring.

and i've never made an attempt to get into the film industry because its not my intention. and i still believe goyer is a mediocre writer, at best.

my life is great, by the way.

 

[NolansKnight]

and i still believe goyer is a mediocre writer, at best.

For the most part he is ... some questionable dialogue, but still a very, very good movie. 2004-ish you claimed to be able to write a better script than Goyer's Batman Begins. What happened?

So did Guard, who conveinently released a script a few months AFTER the BEGINS script leak called "Batman: Genisis" (such a horrific title too) and it was almost a scene for scene rip off of Batman Begins.

Ahhh, good old times. haha

 

[Max Shrek]

For the most part he is ... some questionable dialogue, but still a very, very good movie. 2004-ish you claimed to be able to write a better script than Goyer's Batman Begins. What happened?

You're criticizing someone in 2011 for something they said in 2004?! Some grudges never end, I suppose...

 

[Motown Marvel]

For the most part he is ... some questionable dialogue, but still a very, very good movie. 2004-ish you claimed to be able to write a better script than Goyer's Batman Begins. What happened?

what do you mean what happened?

 

[NolansKnight]

You're criticizing someone in 2011 for something they said in 2004?! Some grudges never end, I suppose...

Hardly a grudge. Quite ammusing. MotownMarvel has always presented himself as if he is some artist with superior capabilities to the people actually in the business. An arm chair film maker / artist.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Hardly a grudge. Quite ammusing. MotownMarvel has always presented himself as if he is some artist with superior capabilities to the people actually in the business. An arm chair film maker / artist.

just because someone is in the business doesnt make them great at their job, or better than everyone not in the business. and rarely have i ever presented myself as some great artist who is better than everyone else.

 

[NolansKnight]

just because someone is in the business doesnt make them great at their job, or better than everyone not in the business.

Actually it usually does. Because if the latter were the case, they would be getting PAID for their abilities. It's like me being a walk on college D1 basketball player, critiquing even the WORST of PROFESSIONAL NBA players and saying I can do better than them. Please ...

They have the talent, you don't ... thats why they are whey they are, and why you're not.

 

[KalMart]

Okey-dokey......

 

[NolansKnight]

just because someone is in the business doesnt make them great at their job, or better than everyone not in the business.

Cream ALWAYS rises to the top. Life lesson for you.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Actually it usually does. Because if the latter were the case, they would be getting PAID for their abilities. It's like me being a walk on college D1 basketball player, critiquing even the WORST of PROFESSIONAL NBA players and saying I can do better than them. Please ...

They have the talent, you don't ... thats why they are whey they are, and why you're not.

Cream ALWAYS rises to the top. Life lesson for you.

you think talent is how people break into and sustain themselves in the ENTERTAINMENT industry? if you believe that to be true, then i dont think you are in any position to be handing out life lessons.

nor do i think you are in any position to be questioning where im at in my life. you know nothing about me, my life, or my aspirations and goals. im not only content with my life, im exactly where i want to be and heading exactly where i want to go.

 

[Duuude]

I dont think its pain that stops someone like Batman or Bane from fighting further. Punches to the head give your brain concussions with everything that goes with it, a punch to the nose will make your eyes water and hinder your eyesight, a punch to the gut will leave you breathless, and then there are nerve clusters that you can hit causing temp paralysis, joints you can break, etc.

Pain doesnt really come into it, at least not in this level of fighters.

As for the topic, as Mr Stark once said, is it too much to ask for both acting and looks?

 

[elgaz]

I don't think either of those pictures is at all representative of what Bane was supposed to be in either Vengeance of Bane or Knightfall.

Graham Nolan:

Jim Aparo:

Those are more representative of what Bane is supposed to be IMO. And Nolan and Hardy got it pretty much right on the money. Bane is not a steroid version of the Incredible Hulk like those two pics you posted. So many artists have gotten it wrong, include Arkham Asylum/City. A good portion of Bane's freakish size is due to subcutaneous implants and not muscle development. Which is precisely how he's described by Denny O'Neil in the Knightfall novel. His strength training was all calisthenics, you don't get bodybuilder big on calisthenics. Even if you were on a super steroid... which doesn't actually seem to do that much for his muscle growth except temporarily pumping him up... what it does do is give him a major rush and a drug fix.

Bane is sometimes drawn big, and sometimes drawn normal height. And there's no right or wrong; like any artistic representation, it's down to the artist's take on it.

But for what it's worth, I was agreeing that Hardy's height isn't an issue and just trying to demonstrate the difference in size between some comic versions and his live motion version. Ultimately, his performance will define the character, not his height.

 

[DaveMoral]

I get it, I just hate those images and that whole desire to draw Bane like a Hulk-sized behemoth. To me it's always worth it to go back to the sources for the character, O'Neil, Dixon and Graham Nolan are his creators I believe. And the guy is basically 6 foot tall, probably 230 pounds... heavyweight fighter size. I think Batman is more like light heavyweight.

I loathed Kelley Jones' art that besmirched the covers of Knightfall. And he was basically the first to make Bane a Hulk analogue.