How many "sides"/"faces" are there to Bruce Wayne / Batman?

[Rocketman]

So me and a fellow comic fan were having a friendly debate, and although it really depends on the interpretation of the writer, I ask this: How many personalities, or sides, does Bruce Wayne have? Again, there might not be a correct answer, based on how the psychology is handled with a particular team. But how do YOU envision YOUR Batman?

I remember Christian Bale was on the Today Show back in 2007 promoting The Dark Knight, and mentioned that he personally saw three sides to Bruce Wayne in Nolan's universe:

1. Bruce Wayne (just in general... without costume)
2. Batman (in costume)
3. The "Beast"/"Animalistic" Batman (the side of Batman that is violent)

Now, although I totally respect Bale's take on the Caped Crusader (since he is Batman), I would take Nolan's version a few steps further:

1. The "Billionaire Playboy" Bruce Wayne: A total charade/performance (him acting drunk at his birthday party in BB; crashing his car into the SUV in TDK and acting like he sped through a red light).
2. The Real Bruce Wayne: The one we see with Rachel, Alfred, and Lucius. No "masks" or performances at all.
3. Batman: When Bruce is in Costume - another "act" we see when he's with Gordon. He changes his voice, etc.
4. The "Beast"/"Animalistic" Batman: The one who terrifies criminals. He interrogated Flass in the rain, dropped and threatened Maroni in that alley. A totally separate Batman from the one who is with Gordon.

But in the comics, it can be limited to a simple Bruce Wayne/Batman, or it can be expanded with Matches Malone.

In my preference of Batman, I'm one of the people who refuses to believe that Bruce is crazy; in other words, he's a schizophrenic who becomes a beast when he wears the costume -- I don't like that. I don't really think there's a multiple personality to Bruce; he's simply a guy who has concocted different roles to play based on the environment he's in. He is an "actor" of sorts.

What say you?

 

[Brain Damage]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but wasn't Bale's three the drunk playboy, the real bruce wayne, and the batman?

 

[Cain]

I don't agree with Christian Bale but I do agree with you Rocketman. At least as far as your first 3 points are concerned anyway. I think there are only 3 sides to Batman. Considering everything from 1939 and up until today it's the only real conclusion you could come to. There's Bruce Wayne being he who remained after his tragedy and only Alfred, Dick and Leslie Thompkins know. Then there's Batman who the Gordons and the rest of the batfamily and justice league as well as criminals know then there's Bruce the facade; him playing up to what people expect of him by being the billionaire playboy that plays aloof for the media and public.

Oh and I think overall he is basically one driven guy. Bruce Wayne died on crime alley and Batman was born. He's been that guy and like anybody else has different sides to his personality pretty much. Just like all other people. It's being human; you're able to be respectful around your parents. Or be freaky with your significant others and phony in social situations but still be the same person; Bruce has a right to do so as well being that he's a fictional character written by real people and will represent their thoughts.

 

[PSYLENTGuardian]

I don't agree with Christian Bale but I do agree with you Rocketman. At least as far as your first 3 points are concerned anyway. I think there are only 3 sides to Batman.

Isn't that how Christian Bale sees it, too?

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Depends totally about which incarnation you are talking.

The Pre-Crisis Batman was basically a nice guy deep inside who used his costume to scare people, but still enjoyed his life as Bruce Wayne and also enjoyed being Batman. This characterization was even there in the early post-crisis Batman, perfectly demonstrated by the Mike W. Barr stories of that time, although the emotional scars of Batman were played up more and more with time.

Of course with DKR and Year One Frank Miller created the Batman with psychopathic leanings, the guy who declared that "all his senses went numb" when his parents were killed and Bruce Wayne was just a mask. A guy who doesn't have any real emotions.

Jim Starlin's Batman was kinda in between.

 

[Cain]

Isn't that how Christian Bale sees it, too?

Not according to the first post.

 

[Brain Damage]

Not according to the first post.

And i'm almost 99% certain the first post is wrong.

 

[CConn]

Don't forget his O face.

 

[Cobblepot]

There are many sides to Bruce, we've seen 'em all over the years.

1. Normal Bruce
2. Playboy
3. Businessman
4. Philantropist who realy cares (instead of the playboy)
5. The father figure (Jason, Tim and Damian. With Dick he never really showed these emotions)
6. Batman (as whom he also has many sides...)

 

[shallbecomeabat]

I, too, think Rocketman mixed something up. I remember Bale stating that the three sides are

1. The "Billionaire Playboy" Bruce Wayne: A total charade/performance (him acting drunk at his birthday party in BB; crashing his car into the SUV in TDK and acting like he sped through a red light).
2. The Real Bruce Wayne: The one we see with Rachel, Alfred, and Lucius. No "masks" or performances at all.
3. Batman: When Bruce is in Costume - when he's with Gordon. He changes his voice, etc. The one who terrifies criminals. He interrogated Flass in the rain, dropped and threatened Maroni in that alley.

and I absolutely agree. The philantropist is part of his real Bruce side, just as the businessman and the father figure he can be for the Robins.

 

[theMan-Bat]

I agree that there are three personas. As Paul Dini said in Wizard magazine #178 (2006), "I think there are actually three personas: There's the Bruce Wayne face that the public sees at corporate meetings or social events, the Batman face that he allows criminals to see, and then there's this weird third person who is closer to Batman but he's Bruce Wayne as well -- that's who Batman really is."

Depends totally about which incarnation you are talking.

The Pre-Crisis Batman was basically a nice guy deep inside who used his costume to scare people, but still enjoyed his life as Bruce Wayne and also enjoyed being Batman. This characterization was even there in the early post-crisis Batman, perfectly demonstrated by the Mike W. Barr stories of that time, although the emotional scars of Batman were played up more and more with time.

Of course with DKR and Year One Frank Miller created the Batman with psychopathic leanings, the guy who declared that "all his senses went numb" when his parents were killed and Bruce Wayne was just a mask. A guy who doesn't have any real emotions.

In Comics Interview #31 (1986) Frank Miller says, "I don't see him as a psychotic."

In Amazing Heroes #102 (1986) Frank Miller says, "His psychological state is extreme, but he's no psychopath."

On NPR Frank Miller was asked, To be both Bruce Wayne and the Batman, does one or both of them have to be crazy?
Frank Miller: "Well, my own personal theory is that everybody's crazy, but I would say not really. And as a matter of fact, Batman and Bruce Wayne are both characters who believe in sanity and, you know, in a sane world, but they believe that it only makes sense when you force it to. So there's a touch of the fascist in them, and there's a--he saw all sense ripped out of his life when his parents were murdered in front of his eyes, and he has come back and said, 'I'm going to make the world make sense.' That's Batman."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4704766
In Frank Miller's material Batman certainly does have emotions and Bruce Wayne is not just a mask. According to Frank Miller: "Bruce Wayne is actually who Batman is. I mean, he has to create the character of Batman in order to follow his mission, but he really still is a very suave, rich man, you know, who's raised and bred very well."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4704766
Bruce is playing an act with his Batman persona in Frank Miller's material. In Frank Miller's All-Star Batman & Robin the Boy Wonder Dick Grayson says, "That's not his real voice. He's doing some kind of lameass Clint Eastwood impersonation. That's not his real voice. He's faking it."

In Frank Miller's Batman: The Dark Knight Strikes Again Bruce Wayne thinks to himself in the Batcave with the Batboys and others around, "Stay grim. Don't break into a run. Don't laugh like a school boy. Don't let them know how much fun you're having."

In Amazing Heroes #102 (1986) Frank Miller said, "There's a tremendous amount of joy to the character, as dark as he is." Miller presents Batman as smiling "because I couldn't believe anyone who had the necessary amount of 'magic' in him to make him a superhero would always be so depressed."

In Comics Interview #31 (1986) Frank Miller said "As a matter of fact, the strongest presentation of the character to date comes from the forties. There was something in the art back then that made him look huge - it wasn't just his shoulders, big as they were. There was also a sense of joy, grim as he was, there was a sense of joy, just in what he did, that I'm trying to bring back."

 

[Thundercrack85]

I would say three, like many heroes. Bruce Wayne the rich playboy, Batman the symbol, and the real Bruce Wayne, who transcends both.

 

[Brother Jack]

In Comics Interview #31 (1986) Frank Miller says, "I don't see him as a psychotic."
In Amazing Heroes #102 (1986) Frank Miller says, "His psychological state is extreme, but he's no psychopath."

This is a great quote. I don't know where that Frank Miller went, but miss him.

I've always agreed with Dini and Bale that there are basically three personalities: Private Bruce (who is probably the closest to the actual person), Public Bruce (which is the only true facade), and Batman. You can get some range of expression within each but those overriding three remain constant.

 

[theMan-Bat]

This is a great quote. I don't know where that Frank Miller went, but miss him.

Frank Miller still has the same views about Batman as he did then.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

And yet he let Dick eat rats...

 

[Rocketman]

And yet he let Dick eat rats...

Lmao.

And yet all of All-Star happened.
That damn series, I swear.

 

[KneelBeforeZod]

Fundamentally, there's just one side to Bruce Wayne. Any other side(s) died on the street with his parents.

There is no billionaire playboy. He doesn't exist. Its an act to distract people. The billionaire playboy Bruce Wayne is a psyops campaign orchestrated by the real Bruce Wayne. He's an illusion for the benefit of villains and the public.

The private Bruce Wayne and public Batman are the same character ... same abilities, same obsessions, same temprament. Angry. Obsessive. Tough. Single-minded. He puts on the cowl to hide his identity and instill fear into enemies ... but he's the same guy with or without the cowl.

Honestly, that's the only way the character can work. He's obsessed with his crusade. He can't be written as a part-time crusading vigilante without the whole thing falling apart. He's on a full-time crusade ... the billionaire playboy facade is a just means to an end.

KBZ

 

[theMan-Bat]

And yet he let Dick eat rats...

Dick didn't eat rats. Alfred let Dick eat a bacon cheeseburger, french fries with a glass of milk on a silver platter.

 

[Gale]

Bruce has one mask and two sides that are really merged together. The mask is his playboy act, not including the businessman side of him, which is more apart of Bruce Wayne. This brings me to the two sides: Bruce Wayne, the son of Thomas Wayne, and Batman, fatherless son of Gotham, born out of the evils of men and the world and evil circumstances rather than an actual being.

Bruce Wayne is the scarred little boy who remembers that night in the alley forever. As I said, this little boy is the businessman who keeps up his parent's legacy conducting business and having charities. It's through this little boy that Batman has his compassion for others and thus helps the helpless and fights for justice.

The little boy keeps friends, family, and lovers at distance because of his scars allowing Batman to carry out the little boy's own mission punishing criminals and eradicating evils of all kind.

To sum it up, my opinion of Bruce Wayne/Batman is that he really is one person with two sides that show themselves at different times based on the situation he's in. These sides cannot exist without one another. The little boy would be destroyed without some sort of coping mechanism for his unresolved loss whilst Batman needs the little boy's compassion for victims of injustice and passion for justice.

 

[SuperFerret]

How many sides are there to Batman? That depends on how he's written.

If he's written realistically, he has a whole plethora of sides to him, as anyone does. If he's not, he usually has only two or three sides, most of which are personas that border on split-personalities.

 

[Brother Jack]

Frank Miller still has the same views about Batman as he did then.

And yet he somehow wrote so much better stories back then.

 

[theMan-Bat]

He's never going to top Batman: Year One and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns because they can't be topped, in my opinion. Frank Miller's recent stories are very controversial and Batman: Year One and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns were very controversial in the '80s, and there were people who hated those stories and complained in fanzines, etc.
Frank Miller: "If the Internet had been around for Dark Knight, they would have been complaining just as much as they are now, because the Internet is there for people to complain. And you know if Batman says goddamn, they get the vapors. Screw ‘em."
I like his more recent stories and that while he has the same views about Batman as he did then, I like that his more recent stories are not repeats of Batman: Year One and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns.
All-Star Batman & Robin the Boy Wonder/Dark Knight: Boy Wonder is about Batman's need for Robin, that he needs a restraining figure.
The ultimate goal of Miller’s newest Batman series isn’t to rehash the predictable and expected Dark Knight of the past seventy years, but to give a solid character arc that answers the question “Why the hell does he need a kid around, anyways?”
“It’s [about] how he is redeemed through Dick Grayson,” Frank points out. "You’ll get to the end and go 'That’s Batman.'"
http://www.nycgraphicnovelists.com/2010/12/frank-miller-part-2-on-pastiche.html

 

[Rocketman]

He's never going to top Batman: Year One and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns because they can't be topped, in my opinion.

I think the opposite. They can easily be topped.
I think the character has yet to reach his peak, storytelling wise.

 

[theMan-Bat]

To each their own. I feel that many other great Batman stories have been told and many more great Batman stories can be told. "There Is No Hope In Crime Alley" is my personal favorite Batman story, but I don't feel that the story tops Batman: Year One and Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, either.

 

[Mace Dolex]

I, too, think Rocketman mixed something up. I remember Bale stating that the three sides are

1. The "Billionaire Playboy" Bruce Wayne: A total charade/performance (him acting drunk at his birthday party in BB; crashing his car into the SUV in TDK and acting like he sped through a red light).
2. The Real Bruce Wayne: The one we see with Rachel, Alfred, and Lucius. No "masks" or performances at all.
3. Batman: When Bruce is in Costume - when he's with Gordon. He changes his voice, etc. The one who terrifies criminals. He interrogated Flass in the rain, dropped and threatened Maroni in that alley.

and I absolutely agree. The philantropist is part of his real Bruce side, just as the businessman and the father figure he can be for the Robins.

Yeah I agree with this, pretty much accurate.