How Much Was REALLY Retconned?

Discussion in 'X-Men: Days of Future Past' started by Dude of Steel, May 24, 2014.

  1. psylockolussus

    psylockolussus Well-Known Mutant

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    Mystique also has healing powers right?

    Thats what I read from the Tumblr site.
     
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  2. pr0xyt0xin

    pr0xyt0xin Shaper Savant

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    All the footage in the intro-credits of Origins: Wolverine should still be canon. He fought in a lot of wars and he's related to Sabretooth. No biggie.

    I would suppose that Wolvie/Sabretooth joined the Vietnam conflict as soon as it began. Being that that was what they do. Theyre fighters. So they may have joined in 1965. They could have toured for 4-5 years and maybe they took a break roundabout 1973 (when "Jimmy" had a ride on that waterbed) before eventually heading back toward the end of the war, leading to their eventual court martial.

    At least, that's what makes the most sense to me. There's really no way around Stryker looking different in three different iterations. Just something you'll have to get used to.
     
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  3. Incredible Hans

    Incredible Hans I'm always hungry!

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    That's what he considers a continuity error! It doesn't make much sense that she survived the experiments (everyone else died, Trusk needed as much of her body as possible), but nevertheless she is around in X1-3.
     
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  4. Saitou Hajime

    Saitou Hajime Well-Known Member

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    As someone pointed out, that's the error. It doesn't jive with DOFP.

    The Senate hearing scene as a whole seemed to imply that the existence of mutants has been made public only recently, say around 3-5 years at the most. Jean says that they are just now seeing the beginnings of mutancy, and a hardened politician like Kelly is just now raising the issue of mutants as a threat and refers to them more as being rumored and unexposed. Hell, he even brings up the possibility of a mutant penetrating the White House, which given what the very public and televised attack on DC in DOFP sounds completely strange.
     
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  5. Incredible Hans

    Incredible Hans I'm always hungry!

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    Okay, but that attack only occured in the "corrected" timeline, right?

    Magneto didn't attack DC in the old timeline before X-Men 1.
     
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  6. Jumpman

    Jumpman Well-Known Member

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    Technically no but again, what are going to do about it? The continuity of this franchise was severely screwed with FIRST CLASS and ORIGINS.

    This film tries to move beyond that to where we don't have to worry about this in the future films. I hate that they didn't stay on point after THE LAST STAND but I'm not going to deny that 5 out of the 7 films in this franchise are pretty damn good. So, I'm rolling with it.
     
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  7. Saitou Hajime

    Saitou Hajime Well-Known Member

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    True, but given how aggressive young Magneto seemed to be in his campaign as depicted in FC and DOFP, it's strange that such major terrorist attacks aren't more ubiquitous by the near future established in the OT. As the Paris and DC incidents showed, not everything can be covered up like the Cuban incident.
     
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  8. Jumpman

    Jumpman Well-Known Member

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    Magneto's campaign in DAYS is not technically apart of the original timeline. The incident in Paris doesn't happen the way we saw it originally. The four of them never intervened. And because they never did, the DC incident never happened.

    Hell, we have no idea how Magneto escaped the Pentagon in the "original" timeline.
     
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  9. Jumpman

    Jumpman Well-Known Member

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    I will say this; when this film hits home video, I'm going to watch the series as follows; X-Men, X2, X-Men The Last Stand, The Wolverine, then X-Men Days of Future Past. Skip FIRST CLASS all together because this film does a lot of exposition to make those who haven't seen FIRST CLASS understand things when we are transported to 1973.

    If in the end, you can understand everything without watching FIRST CLASS, there really isn't that many issues at all. Yes, you miss the character drama between Raven, Erik, Xavier, and Hank by skipping that film. But, we got a real good sense of Xavier and Erik's history in the original trilogy anyway. The 1973 stuff just adds to what we already assumed about the characters. The new wrinkle, if you didn't watch FIRST CLASS and are basing the history of Xavier and Erik on the original trilogy, is that Mystique was Charles' sister.

    So again, when this hits home video, I'm gonna watch the series by skipping the prequel films.

    I think it'll mostly work.
     
    #59
  10. Masone

    Masone Well-Known Member

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    How is that an error? They told you she was captured, they didn't tell you she was killed. She obviously wasn't killed since she was in the OT. What you take from that is that they made an error and not that she somehow escaped, I don't get that.

    You are getting your timelines messed up. The senate hearings that took place in the OT are apart of the OT timeline, the white house being attacked publicly is apart of the DOFP timeline. Those things never happened in the OT.
     
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  11. TheJediBrah

    TheJediBrah Well-Known Member

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    lol I know, which is ridiculous. There's a million and one ways someone could have escaped.

    None of the other mutants escaped, therefore she can't? Strong logic.

    there you go

    They still would be for the most part.

    Yeah but they didn't get inside did they, and that was a new reality anyway
     
    #61
  12. Supperhero

    Supperhero Well-Known Member

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    I would say they were recruited in 1975. April.

    My dates:

    1975: Vietnam.
    1977: Jason Stryker is frozen. He is 14 years old.
    1979: Jimmy Logan quits Team X.
    1985: The events of ORIGINS. That would match with Cyclops' timeline perfectly.
    1990: Stryker cannot monitor-track back Wolverine anymore for some reason. Wolverine starts wandering. Thus, the "15 years" quote.

    FINE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    #62
  13. mightiest_mortal

    mightiest_mortal Much Mightier than thou!

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    So, I was assuming from the end with Stryker fishing Logan out of the water that nearly eveything had changed. until he was shown to be Mystique. I think this was a nod to show that not everything had changed.

    Wolverine : Origins -
    Wasn't Stryker knocked out for most of the conclusion of DOFP? He was pretty hardlined in his hatred for mutants and had been helping ship them for experimentation/death. I'd doubt he's changed his mind much so I assume Wolverine:Origins could have happened nearly unchanged.

    X1 -
    Rogue had the white streak in her hair so we can assume a large portion, if not the majority of this film happened unchanged.

    X2 -
    If Origins happened, X2 more than likely happened for the most part too. If Jean died at the end in this timeline she must have been resurrected differently.

    X3 -
    There's no real way this could have unfolded anywhere near like it did. Retconned out!

    The Wolverine -
    Yukio came to recruit Wolverine. If she didn't go to find him moping in the wilderness (which he does a lot any tbh) she would have recruited him at the X-Mansion. I can't see why a lot of this film couldn't have played out the same way too.

    Are they even intending to do any new "old team" movies? I thought this was a pretty sweet send off and conclusion to the original trilogy.
     
    #63
  14. Saitou Hajime

    Saitou Hajime Well-Known Member

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    My point was that young Magneto was portrayed as being the type to carry out his campaign with an aggression and overtness that should've made mutant terrorism far more acknowledged by the time of OT's near future, but Kelly still talked about is as more of a possibility. And the paris and DC incidents showed that you can't sweep everything under the rug like they did the Cuban incident.

    The incidents in DOFP wasn't part of the OT timeline, but the ones in FC should still be.

    But she couldn't have lived through the experiments, hence she couldn't have been in the OT, which is the error. The extent of the experimentation to be conducted on her to glean the knowledge they needed in order to develop the Sentinels' adaptive abilities would've killed her.

    FC still occured as part of the OT timeline, and like DOFP was an example of how young Magneto tended to be aggressive and overt with his campaign, which was my point.

    For the adaptive Sentinels to have come into existence, Mystique couldn't have survived the experiments. Trask specifically said that a few drops of blood wouldn't be sufficient to gain the knowledge they required, they needed to harvest every last scrap of her genetic material. That and the fact that nobody DOES survive the experiments suggests that she doesn't.

    It wasn't spelled out, but the inference was clear. Well, Jean sorta spells it out when she said they said they were just NOW seeing the BEGINNINGS of mutancy.

    Not after the Paris and DC incidents.

    Now you're just quibbling. They dropped a stadium on the front lawn and dragged the presidential bunker in the surface, all in live television
     
    #64
  15. Jumpman

    Jumpman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he was seen as some one who would carry out his agenda with overtness but remember, FIRST CLASS took place in 1962. He was captured a year later and has been in the Pentagon ever since.

    We have no idea what kind of campaign he was doing between the end of FIRST CLASS and where we see him at the beginning of this film in 1973.

    But yes, you're theory is sound. There is, of course with this franchise, wiggle room when it comes to interpretation.
     
    #65
  16. Mars123

    Mars123 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, mystique killed trask to set of the chains of events. Charles continues to see magneto as the murderer of JFK, and magneto still wants rid of the humans.

    Question is how did magneto escape the pentagon? When Charles regain powers In the original timeline...... We'll probably never know
     
    #66
  17. Jumpman

    Jumpman Well-Known Member

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    Yep. And frankly, there's really no need for us to know.

    Hell, I could make the argument, just based on the original trilogy, that we didn't really need to see the "how" of Erik and Xavier coming together then splitting apart. We got it but we didn't "need" to see it.
     
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  18. Mars123

    Mars123 Well-Known Member

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    Without the alternate timeline, I suspect mutants would have continued to be kept a secret from the public as late as near x1. The events in the alternate timeline means that life for mutants will now be on a different path to avoid the old future.

    Magneto was apart of a conspiracy......trask operations was very much behind the scenes until x3 and the destruction of Alcatraz and Golden Gate Bridge And Phoenix killing the army..... This is where trask starts building their campaign more rapidly in the old timeline.
     
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  19. Mars123

    Mars123 Well-Known Member

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    Yea it's something you just accept
     
    #69
  20. Dead Man Dann

    Dead Man Dann The Failed Experiment

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    It's unlikely that any of Origins (post-73), The Wolverine, or the OT could be "nearly unchanged" with such a huge alteration in the timeline, even if similar events happened. The main characters are left in completely different places in their lives, meaning the paths they take would be different as well-- but you also have to consider how the entire world has changed. People that had originally died are now alive, the public's awareness of mutants has happened sooner, the political landscape has been altered, characters meet each other at different points in their lives, etc. Also, I'm pretty sure Apocalypse was never a villain in the OT, so a battle of such a scale would be another huge change.

    The only thing that could still happen somewhat similarly Logan meeting up with Yashida, but the actual events of the movie would likely be completely different.

    Also, I still think they're pretty much ignoring all/most of Origins, regardless of the timeline change-- even Logan's Weapon X flashbacks in DOFP were mostly the ones from X2, which differ greatly from Origins' interpretation.
     
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    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  21. kevork89

    kevork89 Well-Known Member

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    One major thing that hasn't been said yet is that due to the events at the Paris peace accords, mutants have now been discovered sooner. In original timeline it seemed around X1 is when mutants were being discovered. The history shows that the government kept mutants hidden until whatever events led to their discovery, in the original timeline. In the altered one mutants are now outed I guess you can say in 1973. This directly changes everything that will happen in the future. The cure could've happened earlier now or never at all. The wolverine still could happen. Yashida knew Logan in WWII so he still would want his healing one day, except the Jean stuff won't happen, and he won't be as tortured. Maybe X1 still can happen. There's nothing saying magneto won't try that same thing again, but like someone said of mystique isn't involved everything will be different. And right now we don't know how mutants and humans will be. For all we know after mystique saving all those important men, the president is kinder to mutants and they coexist well with humans. Again would make everything completely different.
     
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    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  22. X-Maniac

    X-Maniac High Evolutionary

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    All we know is he wanted more than a drop of blood. We don't know how much turned out to be enough. He may have found that some more tissue was sufficient without completely taking her apart.

    We also know that she has enhanced healing (nowhere near Wolverine level but enough to survive being skewered by his claws in X1).

    Also, if he did take any brain tissue, it could explain why she was such a cold, hard, emotionless assassin in the OT.
     
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    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  23. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to repeat what I've said several times now: according to everything I have been able to find, NOTHING has been retconned, erased, or ignored because the timeline has been split Zelda-style, with Logan being the link (no pun intended) between the two branches since he has experienced both.
     
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  24. Legion

    Legion Well-Known Member

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    It hasn't been split. Xavier in the future remembers the promise he made to the time traveling Logan (to bring the x-men together and to guide them) as well as the fact that Logan was a time traveler and he is just returning.
     
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  25. X-Maniac

    X-Maniac High Evolutionary

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    Yes, there is no split, it's been overwritten.

    All the other films (and the future part of DoFP) lead up to the time travel which then rewrites all the other films and that dystopian future.
     
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