Justice League How would you feel about John Stewart amd Wally West instead of Hal and Barry?

GL & Flash pairing

  • Hal & Barry

  • John & Wally

  • A different GL or Flash


Results are only viewable after voting.
You are. I'm gonna answer you even tho I'm surprised you're still here considering how off topic we are (yeah. You never explained that). It'd be great if you answered mine. We disagree over some fictional characters. You gotta stop acting like this is some personal beef.

It's not a personal beef. You just don't like good characters.

I'm not using the comics because we are talking about MOTION pictures. I'm talking about JLU John because that's his mainstream exposure and I'm trying to discuss how he's been used effectively. The mainstream unfortunately doesn't read comics so the comics don't factor in here. John's source wasn't used. The version they created is the one I'm arguing for. Would it make any sense for me to talk about the other one? You just admitted JLU was John's best.

But most people who want Hal don't want the Green Lantern film in continuity. They'd rather have the equally popular (to JL) GL:TAS Lantern, not Berlanti Lantern.

I know you want Hal in this, but are you saying that they couldn't make John work as they have before IN a team setting?

Depends, they could mutilate his character, at which point it begs the question of why bother using his character at all? So it could be done. But I'd rather see literally every other human Green Lantern over John, as all my exposure to him (I watched JLU when I was younger, before I owned a comic) I thought he was boring.
 
For the last time, I am sick and tired of hearing this.

I'm an enormous superhero fan and I am not white. It has never in my life bothered me that the majority of superheroes are white. NONE of my top favorite superheroes are a minority and I hate it when people go around saying that the reason superhero movies need diversity is because everyone in the audience who isn't white won't be able to relate or care about what's happening. This may be the case for some people but as a sweeping generalization, your statement is false.

I advocate for John mainly because of my love of the JL and JLU cartoons which I adored and still enjoy today. I have absolutely no problem seeing Hal and would gladly embrace him if WB decides to use him in this movie. Even Kyle would be welcomed in my mind.

So bottom line, while diversity is nice, it's not essential for non-whites to enjoy a movie. Sorry for the "rantlikeness" of this reply.
Maybe I didn't make it clear but didn't mean to imply that all non-whites were glad to see non-white people among a team of legendary superheroes but clearly it is important to many non-whites around the world.

Let me put it this way. Would whites feel included if the Justice League was nothing but blacks? What would it say about whites if none of them were worthy of being the greatest of superheroes?
 
Agreed. Movies without African American leads (and other races) have made money for a long time.

You want to celebrate diversity? Do it the right way, without limiting the concept. In the context of the JLA, and without boiling diversity down to only racial diversity. But in terms of diversity of powers, ideals, politics, etc.

Superman is an alien from Krypton

J'onn J'onnz is an alien from Mars.

Aquaman is of another species, Atlantean.

Diana is a goddess.

The Flash is a human augmented by science fiction powers.

Green Lantern is a human augmented by alien magic/science tech.

Batman is a human who trained himself to be the pinnacle of mental and physical perfection.

There's nothing inherently wrong with John Stewart as a character. However, if anything, I remember JLA fans being kind of bored with him during the run of the animated series. True, because he's historically not been the main focus of the GL mythology, he's probably not AS interesting, and doesn't have the expansive history of Hal Jordan, Kyle Rayner or even Guy Gardner. He has his interesting elements though, and COULD be interesting, almost any character can be written well in the context of a Justice League film, but when you're adapting a concept like The Justice League, there are myriad options. WB's plan seems to be "Best foot forward", not purely "marketing". Which is kind of hard to argue with creatively.

Well all 7 of those legendary superheroes are white people with a green one added.

If all 7 were black would you be against them making one white to acknowledge that whites can be worthy of the Justice League's top tier membership?

and it's not like John Stewart only brings skin color. He's also a veteran marine which has alot of character arc potential.
 
Maybe I didn't make it clear but didn't mean to imply that all non-whites were glad to see non-white people among a team of legendary superheroes but clearly it is important to many non-whites around the world.

Let me put it this way. Would whites feel included if the Justice League was nothing but blacks? What would it say about whites if none of them were worthy of being the greatest of superheroes?

Maybe some people would find that to be an issue. I was simply pointing out that this isn't the case for every person. Therefore, filmmakers shouldn't bend over backwards trying to make everyone feel included. Justice League doesn't have to be a social commentary, it just needs to be entertaining and true to the things that we like about these superheroes :)
 
It's not a personal beef. You just don't like good characters.



But most people who want Hal don't want the Green Lantern film in continuity. They'd rather have the equally popular (to JL) GL:TAS Lantern, not Berlanti Lantern.



Depends, they could mutilate his character, at which point it begs the question of why bother using his character at all? So it could be done. But I'd rather see literally every other human Green Lantern over John, as all my exposure to him (I watched JLU when I was younger, before I owned a comic) I thought he was boring.
You were a kid. They show them nowadays. You should try them again. The characters I don't like aren't good IMO. JLU was the first thing that ever made me care about ANY lantern. Phil Lamarr is one of THE best voiceover guys ever. Hal never did anything on the old shows to make himself stand out. As said b4, the only difference between the leaguers was the powers they had. GLTAS being equal to JL in terms of anything seems like a stretch. I just don't see that show lasting as long or having the lasting effect JL had. JL went off a long time ago and it's still being shown. When GLTAS is gone (soon) it'll be GONE.

They don't need to mutilate John. They already have a blueprint for how to make him work. Badass marine FTW. He was so great they felt the need to change him in the books. That's an impact.
 
Well all 7 of those legendary superheroes are white people with a green one added.

Superman is not a person. He is from Krypton. He is Kryptonian.
Wonder Woman is not a person. She is from Themyscira. She is half god half Amazon.
Aquaman is not a person. He is from Atlantis. He is Atlantean.

The point he is trying to make is that quite a lot of (most of) the League is made up of non-humans, so trying to apply human racial qualities is redundant, in the same way you can't describe the race of a tiger, or blue whale.
 
Superman is not a person. He is from Krypton. He is Kryptonian.
Wonder Woman is not a person. She is from Themyscira. She is half god half Amazon.
Aquaman is not a person. He is from Atlantis. He is Atlantean.

The point he is trying to make is that quite a lot of (most of) the League is made up of non-humans, so trying to apply human racial qualities is redundant, in the same way you can't describe the race of a tiger, or blue whale.

Yet those non-humans are white....the League needs someone of color. It can't be all white....or non-human white people...which is the same thing.
 
Yet those non-humans are white....the League needs someone of color. It can't be all white....or non-human white people...which is the same thing.

But they're not people.......

Was Green Lantern racist because Michael Clarke Duncan played a white person?

Anywhoooo..... Why can't it be all white when a) the main Justice League characters are all white? and then b) why use John Stewart? Why not have a black Batman?
 
But they're not people.......

Was Green Lantern racist because Michael Clarke Duncan played a white person?

Anywhoooo..... Why can't it be all white when a) the main Justice League characters are all white? and then b) why use John Stewart? Why not have a black Batman?

I assume you mean MCD played a GL in the cartoon where he was protrayed as an Alien...which mean he was essentially non-human....with no classification in the race factor since he was....something else.

As it is....the JL can't be all white because people like me would not want to see an all white JL.... I know you may not want to hear that, but there it is. I want to see a hero who represents me on the big screen. We are not talking about the comics where races and creeds can be portrayed in an equal setting. We are talking about a movie and a movie with an all white cast is not appealing to someone like me of color.

And seriously...at his point...why not make a black Batman....the ideals that Batman stands for and the things that make him Batman are not just limited to white folks.
 
Any race can play any of the characters. As long as none of them are playing John Stewart. :o I'm sure odds are Cyborg will be in the League anyway.
 
So apparently the X-Men movies were such abject failures because the lineup wasn't Angel, Cyclops, Jean, Beast and Iceman. Oh wait, they were a massive success, and a big reason we even got an Avengers movie - Singer's interpretation proved you could take these characters seriously and make a boatload of money, even if you tweak some things.

I'm not sure why my prediction of WB using John Stewart offended so many people, but some people are just angry. Oh well.
 
Im starting to lean towards Wally and John honestly. Id be happy with Hal and Barry though for sure, I just want to see GL and Flash in JL
 
So apparently the X-Men movies were such abject failures because the lineup wasn't Angel, Cyclops, Jean, Beast and Iceman. Oh wait, they were a massive success, and a big reason we even got an Avengers movie - Singer's interpretation proved you could take these characters seriously and make a boatload of money, even if you tweak some things.

I'm not sure why my prediction of WB using John Stewart offended so many people, but some people are just angry. Oh well.

X-Men was a hit because of Wolverine. Hands down the most famous X-Man. Which is why each successive installment had more and more of him.

Avengers took a more faithful approach to the team. They actually used the original members of that team. X-Men basically used a team composed of the most popular incarnation of that team. Justice League is more likely to go with the direction Avengers took.

The only reason people are ragging on Hal is because GL flopped. That has very little to do with who Hal Jordan is. I have yet to see anyone make a compelling argument for John over Hal, it's all just "the movie sucked so Hal sucks" or "John was in the cartoon." And brainchild's latest "the characters I don't like objectively suck" which obviously shouldn't be taken seriously.
 
I honestly can't believe this is still going on. Brainchild's been basically rewording the same two sentences for nearly 2 months now and we keep making him do it again.
 
Wow! This is the most heated thread on SHH. Honestly, we, the people who write on these boards, make up a very vocal yet very small percentage of the people who see these movies. Does anyone here really think the general public really cares rather Hal or John is in the movie? Honestly, how many of you really care(and I mean would refuse to see the movie) if John was used instead of Hal? A JL film could work perfectly with either one and for me, it would be a dream come true just to see six(or seven) of my all time favorite superheroes on a movie screen together for the first time. I could give a damn less rather Hal or John hold the ring as long as he stands next to Superman, Batman, WonderWoman, Flash, and Jon'zz while holding it!

That being said, there clearly is a more popular character between the two, and whether some people want to admit it or not, Hal is the better character. His origin, personality, and relationship with Sinestro and Carol are such a central part of all of the GL mythos. That's why if they were rebooting the GL franchise, Hal is the only way to go. However, since I believe they shouldn't do that and that GL should be introduced in the JL film, John is a good option, given that I feel he works better in a team setting than Hal( just my opinion). Either way, if and when a JL movie comes out, I will be first in line at the midnight showing, no matter who will be Green Lantern.
 
How has Brainchild not been reported yet?

Most of the mainstream audiences didn’t watch JUSTICE LEAGUE animated or JLU. Many who have likely have forgotten much of it. And John Stewart's character was changed in the comics partially because of the animated Justice League, but also because he'd kind of languished as a character in the books. Because at his best, he was still kind of boring and one note. The GL comic/s themselves were starting to languish around that time. John's return was a return to the quasi Silver Age concepts that DC has been slowly returning to over the last few years. But given the context, these things are hardly arguments in favor of using John Stewart in my mind.

Well all 7 of those legendary superheroes are white people with a green one added.

Then if you’re going to look at it that way, call what you want to see what it is:

specific racial diversity, and not actually diversity.

I think the idea of exploring tolerance and diversity and acceptance in general is far, far more important than whether there are enough women, black people, etc, on the team.

The concept of the league is much, much bigger than that.

This is a league where some of the members are aliens who are hated/feared/doubted by the human race and other alien races alike. Its a concept that, like X-Men's themes, could apply to all KINDS of differences, be they racial, social, or otherwise.

If all 7 were black would you be against them making one white to acknowledge that whites can be worthy of the Justice League's top tier membership?

It depends on whether that one white character was deserving of inclusion based on the JLA mythology or if he/she was historically white, and what the actor situation was.

I don’t need a character who is white to "represent me", and to represent millions of other whites, just because. I need a character to represent the human race's best traits.

This whole "There has to be a black member" attitude is honestly a mindset that baffles me, because they can't possibly represent every race, so why pretend otherwise and pick just two or three? Characters are characters and mythologies are mythologies, and marketing concerns notwithstanding, I've never been a fan of shoehorning certain characters into a mythology or changing race purely for demographic reasons.

I don’t want a Justice League movie that needs to acknowledge that people of all colors can be “worthy” of the Justice League’s top tier membership, and does so by picking one non-white race to include. Frankly, I don’t want a movie where being worthy of membership is really the point at all. Being worthy of membership should be about far more than race if it's a concept that's explored, and the league and its members being accepting of many differences, even some that are greater than race (species) should be an obvious concept to include in the film.
 
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Hmmm. I honestly can't decide who I'd like to see play them. There's a poster who made a great casting thread for gargoyles and some other stuff. He's pretty good w/that. I wouldn't be surprised if he's done one for JL
 
Wow! This is the most heated thread on SHH. Honestly, we, the people who write on these boards, make up a very vocal yet very small percentage of the people who see these movies. Does anyone here really think the general public really cares rather Hal or John is in the movie? Honestly, how many of you really care(and I mean would refuse to see the movie) if John was used instead of Hal? A JL film could work perfectly with either one and for me, it would be a dream come true just to see six(or seven) of my all time favorite superheroes on a movie screen together for the first time. I could give a damn less rather Hal or John hold the ring as long as he stands next to Superman, Batman, WonderWoman, Flash, and Jon'zz while holding it!

That being said, there clearly is a more popular character between the two, and whether some people want to admit it or not, Hal is the better character. His origin, personality, and relationship with Sinestro and Carol are such a central part of all of the GL mythos. That's why if they were rebooting the GL franchise, Hal is the only way to go. However, since I believe they shouldn't do that and that GL should be introduced in the JL film, John is a good option, given that I feel he works better in a team setting than Hal( just my opinion). Either way, if and when a JL movie comes out, I will be first in line at the midnight showing, no matter who will be Green Lantern.

This guy speaks the truth. In my opinion Hal should be the GL and Barry should be The Flash but in the end if it turned out to be Wally and John, I wouldn't be broken up about it. I like Wally's character more anyway. I just think it makes more sense to go with the number ones. Hal is #1 and John is a backup. Barry is the Flash and Wally is his replacement
 
How has Brainchild not been reported yet?

Most of the mainstream audiences didn’t watch JUSTICE LEAGUE animated or JLU. Many who have likely have forgotten much of it. And John Stewart's character was changed in the comics partially because of the animated Justice League, but also because he'd kind of languished as a character in the books. Because at his best, he was still kind of boring and one note. The GL comic/s themselves were starting to languish around that time. John's return was a return to the quasi Silver Age concepts that DC has been slowly returning to over the last few years. But given the context, these things are hardly arguments in favor of using John Stewart in my mind.



Then if you’re going to look at it that way, call what you want to see what it is:

specific racial diversity, and not actually diversity.

I think the idea of exploring tolerance and diversity and acceptance in general is far, far more important than whether there are enough women, black people, etc, on the team.

The concept of the league is much, much bigger than that.

This is a league where some of the members are aliens who are hated/feared/doubted by the human race and other alien races alike. Its a concept that, like X-Men's themes, could apply to all KINDS of differences, be they racial, social, or otherwise.



It depends on whether that one white character was deserving of inclusion based on the JLA mythology or if he/she was historically white, and what the actor situation was.

I don’t need a character who is white to "represent me", and to represent millions of other whites, just because. I need a character to represent the human race's best traits.

This whole "There has to be a black member" attitude is honestly a mindset that baffles me, because they can't possibly represent every race, so why pretend otherwise and pick just two or three? Characters are characters and mythologies are mythologies, and marketing concerns notwithstanding, I've never been a fan of shoehorning certain characters into a mythology or changing race purely for demographic reasons.

I don’t want a Justice League movie that needs to acknowledge that people of all colors can be “worthy” of the Justice League’s top tier membership, and does so by picking one non-white race to include. Frankly, I don’t want a movie where being worthy of membership is really the point at all. Being worthy of membership should be about far more than race if it's a concept that's explored, and the league and its members being accepting of many differences, even some that are greater than race (species) should be an obvious concept to include in the film.

It's not purely about demographics, it's about showing that not only white skinned superheroes can save the world or galaxy.

It may seem trivial to some but I assure you millions of people took pride in a black man being the defacto leader of the Avengers.

Superheroes are not just silly cartoons anymore. They are modern myths that become a major part of the cultural landscape. People of all ages are absorbing these concepts and symbols and internalizing them to some extent, including millions of black children. It means alot to see a man of color save Superman or Batman or even stand next to them as an equal.

Yes Hal has a longer legacy and has a connection to Sinestro and Parallax but those ideas were explored in the Green Lantern movie and aren't really needed in the Justice League realm.

I don't want Steel to replace Kal-El or some recently created black character to replace Bruce Wayne but John Stewart has proven himself to be more than a gimmick and as a marine and long established GL deserves a place on the Justice League again.
 
How about a compromise?

Justice League = Hal
Justice League 2 = John Stewart
Justice League 3 = return of Hal
 
Well that's just racist against Gingers by not including Guy. :o
 
Trust me. I'm doing gingers a favor by not including Guy.

He's their Stepin Fetchit.
 
This thread is hilarious, and it turned into a racial debate with a quickness. My favorite argument is that superman and wonder woman aren't white because one is an alien and the other is a demigod...................................
 
I want to see John Stewart in a JL and GL movie. But, since this is the start of the franchise, and Hal Jordan is the original GL character who is essentially DC's version of Hans Solo and Captain Kirk, he should be in the first movie.

To include some diversity in the team, they should include Cyborg in the team.
 

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