I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

[TheSaintofKillers]

The way I see it, they aren't ABSOLUTELY DESTROYING the core aspects of Doom's character by making him into a CEO. Your average Joe American views the corporate world as power-hungry and villainous. Hell, the guy is so vain that he builds a gigantic statue dedicated to HIMSELF right in front of his own building. Maybe you see it as a complete and utter rape of the soul of Victor von Doom, but I don't.

You mean, going from armored genius who is King of a small, yet powerful, country (who thinks himself above EVERYONE) to a bussinessman who's in love with Sue and jealous of Reed for stealing his girlfriend and who has organic steel skin instead of being only scared to the head is NOT destroying the character ? What does it take for you ?

Yes, I do admit it's not "ABSOLUTELY DESTROYING the core aspects of Doom's character" (if it was an old woman called Victress Van Dammne who could shoot fireball through her ass, then yes, by God, it would be absolutely destroying his core character. Then again, i'm having this feeling that if THAT were to happen, some of you might still defend it), but it sure isn't that far away.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

If this were actually a faithful story that deserved filming, it would be good if Von Doom were portrayed as a Dracula-type figure with regard to his behavior once taking control of Latveria. The sorcery thing could be mentioned first as a rumor, just like it was rumored in Walachia that Vlad Dracula dipped his bread in blood instead of wine. The character Dr. Doom is very similar to Dracula in that he is brilliant, courageous, obsessed with order and justice and will horribly punish anyone who steps out of line in his land.

I've always though the same thing. Both were just tyrant. I'd love for Doom to be threated with the same quality Coppola threated Dracula.

Just imagine a theme simular to "the Beginning" theme in Coppola's Dracula used for Doom's entrance and terrifying origin.

 

[Kelly]

I think the core of Doom is still there.....but then again.....I am not as up on Doom as others here......as I said in the other thread.....in order to pull all of Doom's life into this movie...he needs his own movie.......I'm just happy that the core of the FF is strong with family......thats my personal love for this comic.....but for those of you that love Doom......*fist up* keep fightin the fight......

 

[TheSumOfGod]

I've always though the same thing. Both were just tyrant. I'd love for Doom to be threated with the same quality Coppola threated Dracula.

Just imagine a theme simular to "the Beginning" theme in Coppola's Dracula used for Doom's entrance and terrifying origin.

I absolutely love that in ULTIMATE FF, when Victor is ten years old, his father tells him that he and his family are direct descendants of Vlad Tepes Dracula, 15th century Prince of Wallochia. "But always remember, my son: yours is the blood of Vlad Dracula. Mythic power and the royal prerogative. Today, your childhood is over. Today, you begin the labor of becoming worthy of your own blood."

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

I absolutely love that in ULTIMATE FF, when Victor is ten years old, his father tells him that he and his family are direct descendants of Vlad Tepes Dracula, 15th century Prince of Wallochia. "But always remember, my son: yours is the blood of Vlad Dracula. Mythic power and the royal prerogative. Today, your childhood is over. Today, you begin the labor of becoming worthy of your own blood."

Now THAT kicked ass! Warren Ellis is one of the best Doom writer (just read his run on Doom 2099, imo, it's pretty much the best Doom run of all time). Making ties with Dracula sent me chills when I first read it.

If it wasn't for his goat legs, and the fact he is so young and not yet king (but he is the rightful heir, so who knows), I might have love Fox's treatment of Doom more if they had opted for his Ultimate version.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

I think the core of Doom is still there.....but then again.....I am not as up on Doom as others here......as I said in the other thread.....in order to pull all of Doom's life into this movie...he needs his own movie.......I'm just happy that the core of the FF is strong with family......thats my personal love for this comic.....but for those of you that love Doom......*fist up* keep fightin the fight......

I too am quite happy with the way they are threating the FF. That's my problem. I know I will probably love the FF aspect in the film, yet, there's a lot of chances i'll hate their treatment of Doom.

How great of a movie would we be in if both Doom and the FF would be threated well ?

 

[Cool_Jerk]

To respectfully disagree, Albafan, all they'd need is about 5-7 minutes before the opening titles to establish the Dr. Doom from the comics (see post #129). An average or sub-average writer and/or director might need a whole movie to explain Doom, but a creative one (i.e. not hammered into a typical Hollywood popcorn action-flick mindset) could pull it off easily.

Along with "Bram Stoker's Dracula," another good example of compressed and engaging storytelling would be the first 5 minutes of "Raising Arizona." All the backstory anyone needs for H.I. and Ed, their histories, how they met and why they'd steal a baby is right there before the yodeling begins.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

To respectfully disagree, Albafan, all they'd need is about 5-7 minutes before the opening titles to establish the Dr. Doom from the comics (see post #129). An average or sub-average writer and/or director might need a whole movie to explain Doom, but a creative one (i.e. not hammered into a typical Hollywood popcorn action-flick mindset) could pull it off easily.

Along with "Bram Stoker's Dracula," another good example of compressed and engaging storytelling would be the first 5 minutes of "Raising Arizona." All the backstory anyone needs for H.I. and Ed, their histories, how they met and why they'd steal a baby is right there before the yodeling begins.

OR, just like Vader in A new hope, they could skip it for now, to give him some mysteries. Then, later on, they might explain some of his origins, and so on.

To make a faithful Doom that doesn't require an whole movie, they have more than one option. Which is why the road they have opted for makes even less sense.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

Now THAT kicked ass! Warren Ellis is one of the best Doom writer (just read his run on Doom 2099, imo, it's pretty much the best Doom run of all time). Making ties with Dracula sent me chills when I first read it.

If it wasn't for his goat legs, and the fact he is so young and not yet king (but he is the rightful heir, so who knows), I might have love Fox's treatment of Doom more if they had opted for his Ultimate version.

I would have wanted for the movie to be very similar to the ULTIMATE FF storyline (the ULTIMATE titles being nothing more than comic book adaptations of how the Marvel movies should have been made anyway), but instead of getting transformed into a LIVING ARMOR of ORGANIC STEEL, Victor VON DOOM should have been transported to the remains of Vlad Tepes Dracula's castle in Wallochia, which would now be situated in a region of Romania known as LATVERIA. He would have remained normal, but a piece of flying debris would have hit his face and scarred him an instant before his teleportation. And guess what he would have found inside of Dracula's castle, now having become the "LATVERIAN NATIONAL HISTORY MUSEUM"? Dracula's green cloak and steel armor, of course!

S**t, if an average (okay, admittedly slightly ABOVE average) geek like me can come up with this stuff in less than five minutes for free, why can't the morrons at Fox?

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

I would have wanted for the movie to be very similar to the ULTIMATE FF storyline (the ULTIMATE titles being nothing more than comic book adaptations of how the Marvel movies should have been made anyway), but instead of getting transformed into a LIVING ARMOR of ORGANIC STEEL, Victor VON DOOM should have been transported to the remains of Vlad Tepes Dracula's castle in Wallochia, which would now be situated in a region of Romania known as LATVERIA. He would have remained normal, but a piece of flying debris would have hit his face and scarred him an instant before his teleportation. And guess what he would have found inside of Dracula's castle, now having become the "LATVERIAN NATIONAL HISTORY MUSEUM"? Dracula's green cloak and steel armor, of course!

S**t, if an average (okay, admittedly slightly ABOVE average) geek like me can come up with this stuff in less than five minutes for free, why can't the morrons at Fox?

Because they are morons ?

Edit: i like your idea. Actually, that's the kind of "twist" on Doom's origin which would have sent me goosebumps. (and in a good way )

 

[snazzy J]

Jeez, what happened here? Last time I looked we were three pages back polishing up my plot outline.

 

[homestarrunner]

Here is an idea: im probally gonna get flamed for it, but since this a place to express opinons i might as well do it. Doom being a bussiness man could work, like i said in a previous post an expierement could wrong leaving him ruined and all he knew in life worked so hard to build was gone. How would you feel if u left for america and told your famly who comes from power( they could still leave that in there) that u falied? that you were a disgrace to their good name. Someone on the boards sig line from fight club fits the senario like glove to a hand, ONLY AFTER WE LOST EVERYTHING, ARE WE FREE TO DO ANYTHING. hence doom sets out on a quest for power, slowly building himself into a power hungry dictator again it's just an idea but by the end of the film this could be established. my 2 cents

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

Here is an idea: im probally gonna get flamed for it, but since this a place to express opinons i might as well do it. Doom being a bussiness man could work, like i said in a previous post an expierement could wrong leaving him ruined and all he knew in life worked so hard to build was gone. How would you feel if u left for america and told your famly who comes from power( they could still leave that in there) that u falied? that you were a disgrace to their good name. Someone on the boards sig line from fight club fits the senario like glove to a hand, ONLY AFTER WE LOST EVERYTHING, ARE WE FREE TO DO ANYTHING. hence doom sets out on a quest for power, slowly building himself into a power hungry dictator again it's just an idea but by the end of the film this could be established. my 2 cents

I doubt many people will complain if by the end of the movie the result of Doom's new origin result in the same Doom we all know and love. Let's hope they know what they are doing,
but I doubt it.

Imo, an origin does not necessarily make a character. Not at all. It is how he is portrayed before and after his "origin" that makes who he is.
Unfortunately, if Fox haven't made much changes since either Frost's script or the script Moriarity read, I doubt we will even get that. Let's hope for the best, though.

 

[snazzy J]

You know, saint, I've been thinking, and it seems to me that using Doom's origin from the comics (ie: accident in college with Reed and Ben, mysterious reappearance) wouldn't really work in a movie. You give Darth Vader as an example, but that only worked so well because he had a deep connection with Luke. A grand revealing of the fact that Doom went to college with Reed and Ben doesn't really stack up to "I am your father." It's just not interesting enough to warrant so much secrecy and build-up. Like spiderwyze said earlier, a good villian has to tie into the hero's story, and that's why I really don't mind Doom's accident being combined with the one that gives the Four their powers. His past with Reed and Ben just doesn't tie him in all that well. I think that, as long as Latveria remains his first priority, followed by the Four, combining their origins couldn't hurt (that's why I've been pushing my storyline). Now you guys also mentioned a Dracula-type origin, but, since I still haven't seen that, I can't really decide if that would work or not, so I may decide to correct myself later. As of now, though, I think that bringing in Doom out of nowhere just wouldn't work all that well, cinematically.

 

[homestarrunner]

I doubt many people will complain if by the end of the movie the result of Doom's new origin result in the same Doom we all know and love. Let's hope they know what they are doing,
but I doubt it.

Imo, an origin does not necessarily make a character. Not at all. It is how he is portrayed before and after his "origin" that makes who he is.
Unfortunately, if Fox haven't made much changes since either Frost's script or the script Moriarity read, I doubt we will even get that. Let's hope for the best, though.

i kind of doubt too.thats how i would like it to happen, but we'll just have to wait and see i do agree with snazzy j about making him more interesting.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

You know, saint, I've been thinking, and it seems to me that using Doom's origin from the comics (ie: accident in college with Reed and Ben, mysterious reappearance) wouldn't really work in a movie. You give Darth Vader as an example, but that only worked so well because he had a deep connection with Luke. A grand revealing of the fact that Doom went to college with Reed and Ben doesn't really stack up to "I am your father." It's just not interesting enough to warrant so much secrecy and build-up. Like spiderwyze said earlier, a good villian has to tie into the hero's story, and that's why I really don't mind Doom's accident being combined with the one that gives the Four their powers. His past with Reed and Ben just doesn't tie him in all that well. I think that, as long as Latveria remains his first priority, followed by the Four, combining their origins couldn't hurt (that's why I've been pushing my storyline). Now you guys also mentioned a Dracula-type origin, but, since I still haven't seen that, I can't really decide if that would work or not, so I may decide to correct myself later. As of now, though, I think that bringing in Doom out of nowhere just wouldn't work all that well, cinematically.

Read the Ultimate FF Doom storyarc by Warren Ellis. It's awesome, believe me. (then again, just wait for the last issue to be out, then read it all in one shot )
In it, Ellis and co. combined Doom's origin with the FF. I liked it. Why ? Because he was still pretty much the same Victor Von Doom (except here, he was stupidly named Van Damne, but whatever) we all know. Why ? Because his "character" was still the same. If Fox (by altering Frost's script) can alter his character to the point were he IS the Von Doom we all love to hate, then yes, no prob.

Combining his origin with the FF is not such a bad idea (like I said, I like what they did in UFF), but making Von Doom a jealous businessman boyfriend IS. At least, it seems with those new photos that Victor won a trophy because of his intellect. Which was one of my major gripe with Frost's script: he wasn't smart enough! Doom needs to be the equal (if not more) of Reed, intellect-wise.

Btw, you mention that the revelation of Doom already knowing Ben and Reed wouldn't shock the viewers of today. Now, why would they have to make that a revelation ? Just have the intro show us THAT relationship. The revelation might be that Dr. Doom IS that young student from the intro.

Edit: What I fear about Victor's character is if his ONLY goal in the first movie is to punish Reed for what he did to him, with nearly NO references to Latveria or his world conquest goal. I mean, if they opt for a businessman Doom who (like in the Frost script) doesn't care much about his native home, and only wants to become more famous and richer, and that after his "accident" all he wants in life is to have revenge on Richard, then boo.

BUT, if the reason why he is so rich and powerful is because he needs that money and those ressources to take either back Latveria or conquer the world (it's Doom we are talking about here, not your average villain who robs banks ), then hell yes, i'm all up for it.

Making Doom a villain who only wants to kill Richard and nothing else throws the character back 60 years ago. We have gone a long way from that. Byrne and many others have made Doom an even more interesting "character" (he was already a great villain before, though) then he was when he was first created. I'm hoping Fox and co. take that into consideration.

Second edit:
One thing's for sure, the Victor we all know woudn't lose 20 years of his life by doing nothing. The scar didn't make Doom who he was. He was already Von Doom before the accident in the comics. In Frost's script, he is NOT Doom, at least, not until his accident. It should be show that he is already the man he will become later on in the movie (world conquest, Latveria, huge ego, etc). The scar sure as hell wasn't the only reason that made who Doom is. Frost's script seems to indicate so.

Then again, it's been said the version of Doom by Frost has been altered. The question is how much ?

 

[Nero_Ordin]

doom could be the same if they did this. have his family exiled and as they are leaving they kill his parents. then he goes to america becomes a brillant scientist who is working for someone important. then he helps reed build the shield for the shuttle but at the same time as the accident an invention he was working on explodes.

reed told him that it wasn't going to work but didn't listen.have him angry at the ff because of reed and he gets burned but still gets a power. he goes back to latervia and reclaim the power his family once had.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

doom could be the same if they did this. have his family exiled and as they are leaving they kill his parents. then he goes to america becomes a brillant scientist who is working for someone important. then he helps reed build the shield for the shuttle but at the same time as the accident an invention he was working on explodes.

reed told him that it wasn't going to work but didn't listen.have him angry at the ff because of reed and he gets burned but still gets a power. he goes back to latervia and reclaim the power his family once had.

Let's take for granted all that Fox are altering. Threshold has said more than once that Victor will probably have a royal Latverian past, and that he had to flee to america to hide.

Now, the later script that Moriarity read altered one thing out of Frost's first script that could help make one hell of a great difference: Doom didn't come back the same way to earth that the FF did. I like that. Keep that part at least if you are still going this way, Fox. Like in Ultimate FF, we don't know what Victor's been up to since the accident. It's a great mystery, and it help builds the tension.

Now, Doom will also probably have organic steel skin. Ellis proved it could be rather cool power-wise, and Immonen proved to me it could also look awesome. Even so, ditching Doom's armor would be like removing the armor of Iron Man... It's an integral part of him. Maybe a mix of the two ? But then, why put organic steel skin if they would mix them ? I'm still not sure how I will truly react to the skin change.
And yes, him falling in Europe, near Latveria would be a great idea. A wounded and frustrated Doom might take back what is rightfully his (latveria), and make, with his new army and new weapons, America and Richard pay.

But, if they go the road of Doom shooting lightning and ONLY wanting to make Richard pay because he lost his girlfriend, his face and his humanity, with no other goals whatsoever would be lame, imo.

Then again, didn't they hire one of the writer of Catwoman to alter the FF script ? Talk about a revolting developpment.

 

[Nero_Ordin]

but i meant if doom was on earth when the ff have their accident and doom has his on earth at the same time.

 

[snazzy J]

Read the Ultimate FF Doom storyarc by Warren Ellis. It's awesome, believe me. (then again, just wait for the last issue to be out, then read it all in one shot )
In it, Ellis and co. combined Doom's origin with the FF. I liked it. Why ? Because he was still pretty much the same Victor Von Doom (except here, he was stupidly named Van Damne, but whatever) we all know. Why ? Because his "character" was still the same. If Fox (by altering Frost's script) can alter his character to the point were he IS the Von Doom we all love to hate, then yes, no prob.

Combining his origin with the FF is not such a bad idea (like I said, I like what they did in UFF), but making Von Doom a jealous businessman boyfriend IS. At least, it seems with those new photos that Victor won a trophy because of his intellect. Which was one of my major gripe with Frost's script: he wasn't smart enough! Doom needs to be the equal (if not more) of Reed, intellect-wise.

Btw, you mention that the revelation of Doom already knowing Ben and Reed wouldn't shock the viewers of today. Now, why would they have to make that a revelation ? Just have the intro show us THAT relationship. The revelation might be that Dr. Doom IS that young student from the intro.

Edit: What I fear about Victor's character is if his ONLY goal in the first movie is to punish Reed for what he did to him, with nearly NO references to Latveria or his world conquest goal. I mean, if they opt for a businessman Doom who (like in the Frost script) doesn't care much about his native home, and only wants to become more famous and richer, and that after his "accident" all he wants in life is to have revenge on Richard, then boo.

BUT, if the reason why he is so rich and powerful is because he needs that money and those ressources to take either back Latveria or conquer the world (it's Doom we are talking about here, not your average villain who robs banks ), then hell yes, i'm all up for it.

Making Doom a villain who only wants to kill Richard and nothing else throws the character back 60 years ago. We have gone a long way from that. Byrne and many others have made Doom an even more interesting "character" (he was already a great villain before, though) then he was when he was first created. I'm hoping Fox and co. take that into consideration.

Second edit:
One thing's for sure, the Victor we all know woudn't lose 20 years of his life by doing nothing. The scar didn't make Doom who he was. He was already Von Doom before the accident in the comics. In Frost's script, he is NOT Doom, at least, not until his accident. It should be show that he is already the man he will become later on in the movie (world conquest, Latveria, huge ego, etc). The scar sure as hell wasn't the only reason that made who Doom is. Frost's script seems to indicate so.

Then again, it's been said the version of Doom by Frost has been altered. The question is how much ?

We're definitely on the same page here. I don't have a problem with Doom being a part of the accident (as long as he doesn't get powers) and the businessman angle could potentially turn out ok, but the jealous boyfriend crap has got to go. Like I said before, Doom's first priority should always be Latveria, followed by revenge against Reed. The only acceptable reason for him to become a businessman in my eyes is in order to reach his final goal of conquering Latveria (like in my outline ).

Also, in regards to the revelation of his identity, it still wouldn't be particularly surprising. If the movie takes the trouble to show the origin and accident of this "mystery man," they're gonna know it's Doom. Why else would they be shown that stuff if it weren't? There just really isn't anything shocking about the relationship between Doom and the Four, it's all pretty straightforward.

Oh, and I'll be sure to check out that UFF arc when the TPB comes out.

 

[TheSaintofKillers]

We're definitely on the same page here. I don't have a problem with Doom being a part of the accident (as long as he doesn't get powers) and the businessman angle could potentially turn out ok, but the jealous boyfriend crap has got to go. Like I said before, Doom's first priority should always be Latveria, followed by revenge against Reed. The only acceptable reason for him to become a businessman in my eyes is in order to reach his final goal of conquering Latveria (like in my outline ).

Also, in regards to the revelation of his identity, it still wouldn't be particularly surprising. If the movie takes the trouble to show the origin and accident of this "mystery man," they're gonna know it's Doom. Why else would they be shown that stuff if it weren't? There just really isn't anything shocking about the relationship between Doom and the Four, it's all pretty straightforward.

Oh, and I'll be sure to check out that UFF arc when the TPB comes out.

If you liked Ellis' portrayal of Doom in Doom 2099 (my favorite Doom run, imo), then yes, be sure to check UFF.

And I really like the idea of Victor having build an empire for one single goal: to take back Latveria and make his enemies pay.

But, in the Frost script, he was rich and famous for the sole purpose of being rich and famous, which was more than lame (and in moriarity's script review, it seems to be quite the same thing).

 

[Nero_Ordin]

i too hate the idea of dooms relationship with sue but it work if they had a one night stand and doom would care afterward. that would show true arrogance. and it would drive reed crazy.

 

[snazzy J]

Just in case anybody has missed any of the evolution of my outline, here it is in it's entirety:

Okay, here's a plot outline a worked out just now combining the Frost script, the new script, and Sardaukar's idea:

Doom has been planning for years to take back Latveria and he is finally ready to do it, using his company's resources. To accomplish this, he's going to install a weapon on his pre-existing space station [This part does sound cheesy, but it explains why the launch occurs so quickly and why Doom comes along. If anybody comes up with a less-corny explanation, feel free to share it] and use it to take Latveria by force. The only problem is he needs an excuse to be up there so that no one will suspect anything. Enter Reed with his research mission, and Ben as his pilot. Doom has a history with the two, but realizes this is exactly what he needs for his plan, so they go ahead with the mission, along with Sue and Johnny. The accident occurs ala the Frost drift, except with Doom leaving in the escape pod like in the new script. The only difference is, instead of organic armor, he has been scarred, though we never actually see the scars. When he lands, he covertly returns to his company (Not on a stolen motorcycle!), leaving everyone to believe he has gone missing (or maybe the pod crashes and they think he's dead). He dons his armor, which he had already created to protect himself in his annexation of Latveria, forges his mask to hide his face, and decides to proceed with his plan, albeit with a newfound hatred of Reed, who he blames the accident on (though his scarring is actually his own fault). This all occurs in complete secrecy, no one being aware of his endeavors aside from a handful of scientists/engineers that he murders later on. Meanwhile, all the stuff from Frost's draft with the Four happens, setting up all their characters. Finally, in the third act, Doom carries out his plan and it is up to the Four to stop him. The ending I'm not so sure about, but I think it could involve Doom being defeated, but still getting away. Then, at the very end after Reed proposes to Sue, Doom could be shown something like "Commence preparations for Plan B, " or something, but less cheesy. Thoughts?

On Doom's character in general, a few things are a must. In addition to this:

In only a few (but gripping) moments throughout the film, Doom is disturbed and vulnerable (and we all know that Doom hates being vulnerable-it only adds to his rage and determination). He is continually plagued by nightmares and visions of a moment from when he was a child, a moment when his entire family was executed before his eyes. He feels ashamed that he, the rightful heir of Latveria, fled in fear while a usurper stole the throne.

Doom is also angry. You see, the usurper (let's respect canon and call him Vladimir) was actually backed and given weapons by the United States and other Western nations. But now Vladimir rules Latveria under an iron fist worse than that of the Von Doom's, but of course Vladimir is still an ally of the West as they continually overlook his crimes against humanity for political/economical reasons (just like China's control of Tibet).

This enrages Doom...and gives him enough of an excuse to really hate the world. That hate serves as proper motivation for him to avenge himself and his dead loved ones upon all the world.

I'd like to see a scene where Sue tries to understand why Victor is so angry and he explains to her his family's tragedy. Hell, if they really want Sue to connect intimately with Victor and make us understand the guy, that's a fine moment to do it in!

he should also:

- be a brilliant scientist-turned-businessman, not eurotrash-turned-businessman
- have come to America no earlier than his late teens
- have spent his time between the murder of his family and his arrival in America living in exile with the gypsies of Latveria, and his experiences in black magic could be hinted at
- have a pre-existing relationship with Reed and Ben (disliking them, but not all out hatred yet)
- have forged his company from the ground up through his own hard work and genius alone
- definitely not be going out with Sue
- be scarred and have artificial armor, not organic
- be primarily concerned with Latveria, not the Four (it won't make sense if he all of a sudden takes over Latveria in a sequel if he never cared that much about it in the first place)
- just act like Doom should: cold, vain, willing to do whatever it takes, but also with his own sense of honor, distorted as it may be

If they would do all that, I think it could definitely do Doom justice.

That would certainly make sense, and it'd be really cool to see in the movie. The question I have is in what order should all these plot details be revealed, because there should be a mystery at first as to why the events are happening the way they are.

I was thinking that his plan would be hinted at and we would know something was going on, but we wouldn't actually find out until near the end. Like, maybe he could disappear for awhile on the space station before the accident. The Four could get suspicious, but then the accident occurs and they forget for the time being. We would see him hit by an explosion during the accident, his escape back to Earth, and his return to his headquarters (not the main building, his secret lair-type place, like his production facility or whatever). We still wouldn't find out his real scheme, but we might hear him say, "The operation will go forward as planned," or something like that to his faithful manservant, Boris. Then, in the third act, we would finally learn exactly what's up as the movie nears it's climax.

Also, it occurs to me that this approach would work best if the movie focused on Doom rather than the Fantastic Four. So there has to be a way to tie Doom's suplot into what the FF are going through. For instance, when Doom finds out what happens to Richards and the rest, how does he react? How does he see them fitting into his scheme? Does he want to rub them out because they're an unknown variable he hadn't planned on? Does he decide to factor them into his scheme and manipulate them like chess pieces? I'm asking because I haven't read the Frost draft (somedays I feel like the only person on this board who hasn't), and I'm genuinely curious as to how Doom ties into the Fantastic Four's storyarc. Just as heroes are judged by villains, so are villains defined by how well they tie into the heroes. Even the best villain in history is going to be awkward in a story that doesn't tie him in well with the direction the heroes are going in.

Well he would develop his enourmous hatred for Reed after the whole scarring thing, so I think killing them would be his final goal, but I like your idea of manipulating them first. He could decide to use them as a distraction for the world until he's ready to complete his plot and destroy them in one fell swoop. I don't think we have to worry too much about how he ties into their storyarc, as he is the reason they were able to be there and get their powers in the first place and he will be their first real test as superheroes.

As far as his character arc goes, there's a couple things I'd like to see. First, he'd be furious about his face and that would lead to a consuming hatred of Reed and, by extension, the Four, but revenge wouldn't surpass his first priority: taking control of Latveria (though it would come pretty close). Also, after the accident, his face would always be hidden so that we'd never see his scars, until he reveals himself in the third act. We would finally get a glimpse of the extent of the scarring at the same time as the Four and we would discover that it was actually just a tiny scratch on his cheek. But no sooner than we are shown this, he finally puts on his still-scalding-hot mask, destroying his face.

Also, if you want a copy of the Frost draft, just PM me your email.

Anyway, I happened to like this idea, snazzy, and I think this is a great thread for brainstorming ideas. Even if nothing ever comes of these ideas because the movie does something else, it's still fun to think about.

Yep, it can't hurt to come up with a storyline of our own.

And while we're talking about my outline, there are definitely some pretty big flaws in there. One is that it's awfully convenient for Doom to already have his armor already made. That one's not too big, but it seems a bit coincidental. The really big plot error is that, if he's got this big weapon thing up in the sky, why is he only taking Latveria? Wouldn't he want more, like, say, the world? If you can come up with ways to explain around these, I'd love to hear them.

For the armor, Doom could be portrayed as a genius of robotics and weapons tech at the beginning of the movie. It therefore wouldn't be a surprise to the audience if he just quickly adapts all that to a personal battlesuit later on.

Doom would be portrayed in the first movie as really just a guy who wants to help his people.

Once he starts his rule in Latveria (in the sequel?), he'll become more power hungry and come to believe that the paradise he has achieved in his country can be brought to the world, only through him.

What I like about a nuclear device plot is that there's no way he could use nukes to take back Latveria if he doesn't want it destroyed. He may have nukes, but he doesn't have the manpower to take Latveria by force, so he's forced to threaten the UN to take it back for him.

That's why even though he fails to take Latveria by force in the first movie, he takes his time and uses stealth and guile to take it maybe in the beginning of the second movie.

Now we're really getting somewhere. Regarding the armor, that's good thinking there. It could be established that he's an expert in that field and when the Four arrive on the scene with their powers, he'll realize that he needs a way to balance the scales. I guess it wouldn't be too unrealistic for him to cook up the armor in a relatively short period of time.

Also, that's a pretty good explanation of why he only wants Latveria. As long as it's shown that the only thing he really cares about is the Latverian people and that the world is of no concern to him, it would make sense. His thirst for world domination could come later on down the road, once he's already an established dictator.

Maybe I should start a new thread for this...

 

[Kmack]

It's just going to be merged, more than likely.

 

[MutantCircus]

HERE HE IS!!! DOOM!!!