I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

[Herr Logan]

Let's just say Lightnin has a sense of leadership, and although he isn't an 'official' leader, people follow him for advice.

Thanks for putting it far more succinctly.

 

[Herr Logan]

This version of Doom has more problems with him than the Mole Man has minions. Now, I'm going to address two points on Saph's list and although this is not a flaw with Saph or his argument, it is a flaw with Tim Story's Doom (no mere fan can be responsible for Story's mess).



- Hollywood has a bad habit such when they need to round up an egomaniac, arrogant mastermind to go up against their hero, he's cast as a corporate business man. - Corporate business men aren't all that intelligent or complete in their plans. Industrialists and corporate leaders aren't imposing on such a level. So, casting an industrialist to play Doom is going down a notch. Also, Doom has never been about the almighty dollar, or has shared any traits with an industrialist. The idea a corporation is a model for a kingdom is over simplifying the issue. The goals of a corporation is money - Doom cares nothing for green-back!

I don't know much about big business, but it seems to me that a CEO usually does need to be intelligent. It's the specific kind of intelligence that's the issue, however. It's my impression that a person like that gets by more on their social skills and networking than anything else. If Doom has a failing in any area of intelligence, it's got to be social intelligence.

- ''Tell me, what happens if you super-heat Rubber?'' Is this suppose to be dialog coming from Victor Von Doom?? Doom doesn't ask questions, he supposes he knows the answers already and aiming witless remarks are beneath him. Open a mag from the eighties, seventies or sixties and you'll see Doom make general comments more than anything else. This piece of dialog doesn't sound like Doom or anything someone of Doom's level would say. It does, however, sound like a script writer who is providing cookie-cutter dialog.

Wetgorilla

I don't know what context this line is in or what tone is used (I'm assuming it's directed at Reed Richards while he's preparing to roast Reed alive), but I could see Doom conceivably asking Reed a science question. Only if he used it in a condescending and malicious tone to basically make a sadistic "in-joke" to his fellow genius scientist while he's preparing to harm him using advanced scientific methods, and if he did ask such a question, it would have to be something only the most educated scientists would know about. Heat + rubber = (fill in the blank)? No, I don't think so. It would have to be something that, out of all the characters present during the scene, only Reed and himself would know (unless of course the Beast, Giant Man and other massive intellects were also present) the answer to.

 

[Herr Logan]

Remeber all the gripe about Spider-mans Organic webshooters, no one is complaining now.

Lying is wrong. So is making absolute statements that can't possibly be true.

 

[Herr Logan]

Hello. I've been reading your posts for some time but have refrained from joining because, which I'm a great fan of Julian McMahon, I'm not really very knowledgeable about comics so didn't think I had much to contribute. However, I simply couldn't resist responding to the above comment, which I've seen raised in various forms several times before.

The line "Tell me, what happens if you super-heat Rubber?" is pure sarcasm. Its a rhetorical question. He's not asking for or expacting a reply, its simply a form of quiet, ironic menace. I don't know more about Dr. Doom than I've read here, but that line seems to me to be the epitome of the character you've been describing.

Welcome to the Hype.

I've commented on this already, and I agree that with the right tone, right circumstances and the right question, a properly portrayed Doom could speak this way. This line in particular doesn't fit the bill, though.

 

[Herr Logan]

If it was, it wasn't with my permission, and I will not be drafted. While I appreciate compliments (who doesn't?)from others when I launch new threads for discussion, it is vital that we differentiate 'being accepted in a community' from 'leadership of a community'. These are two very distinct categories, and as far as I'm concerned, I've always aimed to fall squarely into only one of them (and it's not the latter). That's always been my attitude and those I am close to on the PM level can attest to that.

Like I said...I like to keep the ball of discussion rolling...that's what I do. And that's all I've ever done. Give the Leadership Badge to C. Lee--he's the one that can end our SHH lives with the press of a button.

C. Lee, in general, acts as a police force, not a proactive educational or philosophical leader. This is not to say that he can't or hasn't offered guidance or asked questions that led to great discussions. I know he's answered several of my questions when I really just didn't know what's going on. This is an essential function of his job, not an assessment of his character. Grampaw Lee is the most fair, intelligent and helpful moderator I know of, but he's been given the responsibility of keeping the peace, and he's been doing a good job.

As for you being drafted for prom king without your permission, I just want you to know I would never have done that to you or albafan.

I wrote "Orange9mm" and "Iron Maiden" on my ballot.

 

[wetgorilla]

I'd like to know what others here think about the posted spoiler and their thoughts on Movie Doom's demise? I think it's very akin to what happened to Mr. Freeze a few Batman movies ago.

Where are those ju-ju bees?

Wetgorilla

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Personally I think it sounds utterly ridiculous.

But it might look better on screen than it does in print. That's my hope anyway. I could've thought of a much more...creative way...to hold Dr. Doom at bay.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

C. Lee, in general, acts as a police force, not a proactive educational or philosophical leader. This is not to say that he can't or hasn't offered guidance or asked questions that led to great discussions. I know he's answered several of my questions when I really just didn't know what's going on. This is an essential function of his job, not an assessment of his character. Grampaw Lee is the most fair, intelligent and helpful moderator I know of, but he's been given the responsibility of keeping the peace, and he's been doing a good job.

As for you being drafted for prom king without your permission, I just want you to know I would never have done that to you or albafan.

I wrote "Orange9mm" and "Iron Maiden" on my ballot.

Well, I guess there's always the 2006 Bennie Awards.

 

[Kmack]

Personally I think it sounds utterly ridiculous.

But it might look better on screen than it does in print. That's my hope anyway. I could've thought of a much more...creative way...to hold Dr. Doom at bay.

Can someone fill me in

 

[Kelly]

The disgusting thing is, a huge number of albafan's fans speak up with statements mainly about how "positive" she is. The same kind of thing happens with you, except not to the same degree, and you've offered more actual arguments pertaining to the subjects of controversy than "everyone's got their own opinion and disagreements between posters makes me so freakin' happy and educated" posts. I'm sure you feel differently, but it seems a bit shallow to laud someone for being simply cheerful and optimistic, and to do this constantly.

I had some time to think about this statement yesterday....and was throughly enlightened with my revelations.

I never asked for any titles, never strived for any titles. I came to this board as Albafan, to have fun, bring something new (maybe) to the table, learn something new, and get to know all kinds of people. Forums are extremely hard for me as a whole...I'm more an "eye contact" person...but I've learned over the past months to get past that for the most part. Never once did I think my opinion of something would be called stupid, w/o knowledge, sheepish, and a few other words as well...I also never thought that being cheerful, optimistic, allowing others to give their opinions was "shallow"...but to some I guess it is....Well I've been educated alittle more I guess and thats a good thing.

Positivity to me was just a word I like to use in my class that allows my kids to give their opinions in an atmosphere of openess, and respectful banter...we have fun, and we learn from each other. Never once, NEVER ONCE, have I said that it was the battle cry for one side or the other.....I don't even know what the hell there are sides on this forum for......what? we have teams here???? THE POSITIVITY TEAM AND THE NEGATIVITY TEAM how stupid is that....and childish....and petty....I came in thinking there would be people who were here much like me because their favorite actors were cast, others because they had been fans of the Fantastic Four Comics for years....HOW STUPID OF ME TO THINK THAT WE COULD ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT AND HAVE SOMETHING TO LEARN FROM EACH OTHER....HOW UTTERLY IGNORANT THAT WAS OF ME....

I've gotten to know so many of you really well...I know about your kids, I know how excited you are about things going on in your lives. I can actually tell when some of you are having bad days, just by how you respond to posts...I can even tell when HL is having a bad day...how crazy is that....I don't look at your SN's and make a judgment...I look at your posts...I read your PM's and your IM's to me....if I make any judgments, thats where they come from...

Just let people B**** if they want too, let people Cheer if they want too...let people give opinions just because they want too....let people disagree with you just because they disagree...

How dare we call people "trolls" because they may have a very strong passion for their opinion and maybe that opinion says they don't like AT ALL what they see happening with this movie....most of the true trolls have posted once or twice and haven't been seen since....


How dare we call people sheep, and idiots, and followers, and yes-men because they agree that they like what they have seen so far from this movie...

How dare we make fun of people just because they are new to the F4 and don't know every freakin series #....and how dare we use the name "fanboy" or "purist" to mean some pimply faced kid in a basement reading comics...I'm sorry I just don't see Iron Maiden or Lightnin as that...

How dare we let this get so carried away that we now have a sticky at the top of our thread to remind us how to act....that blows my mind....

Soooooooooooo....with all of that said......If I have called names, hurt feelings, flamed wars, I apologize...

BUT

I will never apologize for being cheerful, positive, seeing the glass "half-full, having a desire to wait in my judgements of this movie, or HATING it when people are spoken down to when debated with on this board....I hate that with a passion....and I'm sorry to say that this is the first time I've actually said that....that was a grave mistake on my part...I should have spoken up a long time ago, and didn't...I didn't because I was afraid that again all that people would see was Albafan and throw it out the window...because in the past thats exactly what has happened...others on this forum could bring alot to this party, they really could but their hands are tied because for some reason they just don't like being looked as ignorant...while others have totally gone from this place (some I'm happy to say have returned) because they felt like they were being looked at as a ridiculous purist fanboy...and yet they brought so much to this party as well....thats sad.

Well you guys can have your sides...you can even give yourselves names...I don't want any part of it...someone else can take the titles cause I don't want them...I'll continue to do what I enjoy here on this board and that is post info, and pics when I get them....and thats what I will continue to do....and read more comics and discuss those on the other thread....but until we learn how to respect what people bring to this table...I won't sit at it...I've lost my appetite and enjoyment of this meal.

Thats all.....

I apologize to Sar for derailing his thread....you can now get back to Doom...

Kel

BTW: before anyone starts throwing things around like .... you need to look in the mirror references.....that was part of my enlightenment...so put that in your own pipe and smoke it...

 

[wobbly]

Can someone fill me in

I think they are referring to how Doom

Spoiler

gets defeated. Apparently he is super-cooled then super-heated (presumably by the torch?) which 'fuses' him, then his paralysed metal body is crated up and sent off to Latveria)

 

[Saph]

I think they are referring to how Doom

Spoiler

gets defeated. Apparently he is super-cooled then super-heated (presumably by the torch?) which 'fuses' him, then his paralysed metal body is crated up and sent off to Latveria)

I wouldn't describe it as a 'fuse' than rather how metal reacts to being super-cooled and being super-heated again in a short amount of time.

I've just realised something. I have a theory saying that Doom uses the transformation chamber, mutating himself further so that the metal covers his face. However that is just a theory..

If it is not true, and all that Doom has is that mask, perhaps upon being 'super heated', his unprotected face scars horribly?

Or even if he does mutate himself further, being super-heated causes his metal skin to crack, revealing the flesh underneath, and is scarred from it?

 

[Kmack]

I think they are referring to how Doom

Spoiler

gets defeated. Apparently he is super-cooled then super-heated (presumably by the torch?) which 'fuses' him, then his paralysed metal body is crated up and sent off to Latveria)

Thanx wobbly

 

[Herr Logan]

Personally I think it sounds utterly ridiculous.

But it might look better on screen than it does in print. That's my hope anyway. I could've thought of a much more...creative way...to hold Dr. Doom at bay.

Doom shouldn't be captured at all. I couldn't care less what the countless hordes of pro-studio posters have to say about "realism" and "believability"; the most faithful way to end the conflict with Dr. Doom in a first movie (or any other movie, really) that also leaves his future as a villain wide open for later films is to have him escape, specifically by having the "him" that gets caught turn out to be a robot. There's no excuse whatsoever for them cutting out his huge penchant and talent for robotics.

 

[Herr Logan]

I had some time to think about this statement yesterday....and was throughly enlightened with my revelations.

I never asked for any titles, never strived for any titles. I came to this board as Albafan, to have fun, bring something new (maybe) to the table, learn something new, and get to know all kinds of people. Forums are extremely hard for me as a whole...I'm more an "eye contact" person...but I've learned over the past months to get past that for the most part. Never once did I think my opinion of something would be called stupid, w/o knowledge, sheepish, and a few other words as well...I also never thought that being cheerful, optimistic, allowing others to give their opinions was "shallow"...but to some I guess it is....Well I've been educated alittle more I guess and thats a good thing.

Positivity to me was just a word I like to use in my class that allows my kids to give their opinions in an atmosphere of openess, and respectful banter...we have fun, and we learn from each other. Never once, NEVER ONCE, have I said that it was the battle cry for one side or the other.....I don't even know what the hell there are sides on this forum for......what? we have teams here???? THE POSITIVITY TEAM AND THE NEGATIVITY TEAM how stupid is that....and childish....and petty....I came in thinking there would be people who were here much like me because their favorite actors were cast, others because they had been fans of the Fantastic Four Comics for years....HOW STUPID OF ME TO THINK THAT WE COULD ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT AND HAVE SOMETHING TO LEARN FROM EACH OTHER....HOW UTTERLY IGNORANT THAT WAS OF ME....

I've gotten to know so many of you really well...I know about your kids, I know how excited you are about things going on in your lives. I can actually tell when some of you are having bad days, just by how you respond to posts...I can even tell when HL is having a bad day...how crazy is that....I don't look at your SN's and make a judgment...I look at your posts...I read your PM's and your IM's to me....if I make any judgments, thats where they come from...

Just let people B**** if they want too, let people Cheer if they want too...let people give opinions just because they want too....let people disagree with you just because they disagree...

How dare we call people "trolls" because they may have a very strong passion for their opinion and maybe that opinion says they don't like AT ALL what they see happening with this movie....most of the true trolls have posted once or twice and haven't been seen since....


How dare we call people sheep, and idiots, and followers, and yes-men because they agree that they like what they have seen so far from this movie...

How dare we make fun of people just because they are new to the F4 and don't know every freakin series #....and how dare we use the name "fanboy" or "purist" to mean some pimply faced kid in a basement reading comics...I'm sorry I just don't see Iron Maiden or Lightnin as that...

How dare we let this get so carried away that we now have a sticky at the top of our thread to remind us how to act....that blows my mind....

Soooooooooooo....with all of that said......If I have called names, hurt feelings, flamed wars, I apologize...

BUT

I will never apologize for being cheerful, positive, seeing the glass "half-full, having a desire to wait in my judgements of this movie, or HATING it when people are spoken down to when debated with on this board....I hate that with a passion....and I'm sorry to say that this is the first time I've actually said that....that was a grave mistake on my part...I should have spoken up a long time ago, and didn't...I didn't because I was afraid that again all that people would see was Albafan and throw it out the window...because in the past thats exactly what has happened...others on this forum could bring alot to this party, they really could but their hands are tied because for some reason they just don't like being looked as ignorant...while others have totally gone from this place (some I'm happy to say have returned) because they felt like they were being looked at as a ridiculous purist fanboy...and yet they brought so much to this party as well....thats sad.

Well you guys can have your sides...you can even give yourselves names...I don't want any part of it...someone else can take the titles cause I don't want them...I'll continue to do what I enjoy here on this board and that is post info, and pics when I get them....and thats what I will continue to do....and read more comics and discuss those on the other thread....but until we learn how to respect what people bring to this table...I won't sit at it...I've lost my appetite and enjoyment of this meal.

Thats all.....

I apologize to Sar for derailing his thread....you can now get back to Doom...

Kel

BTW: before anyone starts throwing things around like .... you need to look in the mirror references.....that was part of my enlightenment...so put that in your own pipe and smoke it...

I apologize if I gave the impression that I thought you were shallow. I haven't been very clear or concise in recent days, and that's no one else's fault but my own. I was merely expressing my observations of people who tend to rally around a person such as yourself and throw out words like "positivity" as standards and "negativity" as some kind of insult in and of itself, even when the person they hold up as an example does not actually do these things. I've seen some fairly condescending remarks from you, but you never crossed the line as far as saying things like "fanboy purists" and calling people "negative" as perjorative. I apologize if I've given the impression that I thought positivity in and of itself was a weakness or an unfavorable quality in and of itself. That's never what I meant to get across.

As for one specific senrtence of mine that you quoted, I admit that I find it frustrating when you habitually respond to a critical post with the assertion that you've learned from it, while offering little or no proof that you intend to apply whatever alleged insight you've gleaned from such posts. That comes across as condescending when it becomes a pattern (and I should know, since I'm the king of "condescending"). If this is another misunderstanding like the "..." issue we resolved recently, then I apologize.

I'm sure I mixed up my messages in that paragraph by blurring the issue of your response patterns with my more intense frustration over the countless comments from people I truly do consider to be shallow (based on the specific content of their respective posts, not based on some generalization) perpetually comparing "negative" posters against "postive" posters without offering anyspecific or valid arguments as to how one is better than the other. This is not how you've specifically expressed yourself, but it is how countless others have, and it sickens me. LightninStrikez happens to have very strong opinions against the handling of Dr. Doom in this movie, yet people have still held him up as an example of a "positive" poster who doesn't "whine" and "b1tch" about an allegedly minor aspect of the film such as Dr. Doom. This strikes me as ignorant, shallow and disrespectful on a level far worse than any break of forum ettiquette-- a pervasive disrepect for the intellects of people that choose to apply said intellect instead of merely "going with the flow." Despite my lapses in judgement, I evaluate both you and LightninStrikez in your respective totalities. I respect you both for your honesty and fairness. When people pretend that you're just some generalized ideal they can use to compare with a vague caracature of me or any other "negative" poster, I don't tolerate it. I don't tolerate it from people that define themselves as "positive" while offering nothing of value to the discussion, and I don't tolerate it from people like wetgorilla whom, on a bad day, might be predisposed to write you off as an airhead with no capacity for analytical thought.

If you truly believe that I have written people off as "sheep" for merely expressing that they are looking forward to a movie or are merely content with the direction the studios are taking these stories, that is a particularly hurtful example of ignorance on your part, and on the part of anyone else who believes this. I'm far from perfect and I've lashed out inappropriately many times, but my obsessively "nitpicking" nature that so many people like to criticize is precisely what keeps me from making such a tasteless generalization as that. If someone can show me a real example of when I've called someone a sheep for nothing more than expressing their preferences alone, without any factual-type statements or criticism of their own (which would mean posting a link which leads to one of my own posts in its entirety, not simply quoting something that can't be confirmed or denied as having been posted by me from my own account), I'll acknowledge it, apologize, and explain why it's wrong to say such things. Until someone can show me even one valid example of this-- which has not happened yet-- I will not stand for people taking my words out of context to that extent. The fact that I'm abrasive and harshly critical is in not a justification for such an accusation in the slightest, because I'm made many, many efforts to explain the difference between judging an opinion and judging an attitude, and I've made it a point to refute people who normally agree with me if they make a mistake such as that. I will be nothing less than perfectly honest in response to any such accusation against me. If that is construed as grounds for banishment by the administrators, then so be it, because they're the ones who will have to live with their own hypocrisy.

I hope this clears things up at least a little.

 

[Saph]

Doom shouldn't be captured at all. I couldn't care less what the countless hordes of pro-studio posters have to say about "realism" and "believability"; the most faithful way to end the conflict with Dr. Doom in a first movie (or any other movie, really) that also leaves his future as a villain wide open for later films is to have him escape, specifically by having the "him" that gets caught turn out to be a robot. There's no excuse whatsoever for them cutting out his huge penchant and talent for robotics.

It could still be a robot. A robot can be taken out by being cooled then heated too fast as well. The way they describe Doom being taken home in a box to Latveria makes me think 'robot.'

 

[Kelly]

I apologize if I gave the impression that I thought you were shallow. I haven't been very clear or concise in recent days, and that's no one else's fault but my own. I was merely expressing my observations of people who tend to rally around a person such as yourself and throw out words like "positivity" as standards and "negativity" as some kind of insult in and of itself, even when the person they hold up as an example does not actually do these things. I've seen some fairly condescending remarks from you, but you never crossed the line as far as saying things like "fanboy purists" and calling people "negative" as perjorative. I apologize if I've given the impression that I thought positivity in and of itself was a weakness or an unfavorable quality in and of itself. That's never what I meant to get across.

As for one specific senrtence of mine that you quoted, I admit that I find it frustrating when you habitually respond to a critical post with the assertion that you've learned from it, while offering little or no proof that you intend to apply whatever alleged insight you've gleaned from such posts. That comes across as condescending when it becomes a pattern (and I should know, since I'm the king of "condescending"). If this is another misunderstanding like the "..." issue we resolved recently, then I apologize.

I'm sure I mixed up my messages in that paragraph by blurring the issue of your response patterns with my more intense frustration over the countless comments from people I truly do consider to be shallow (based on the specific content of their respective posts, not based on some generalization) perpetually comparing "negative" posters against "postive" posters without offering anyspecific or valid arguments as to how one is better than the other. This is not how you've specifically expressed yourself, but it is how countless others have, and it sickens me. LightninStrikez happens to have very strong opinions against the handling of Dr. Doom in this movie, yet people have still held him up as an example of a "positive" poster who doesn't "whine" and "b1tch" about an allegedly minor aspect of the film such as Dr. Doom. This strikes me as ignorant, shallow and disrespectful on a level far worse than any break of forum ettiquette-- a pervasive disrepect for the intellects of people that choose to apply said intellect instead of merely "going with the flow." Despite my lapses in judgement, I evaluate both you and LightninStrikez in your respective totalities. I respect you both for your honesty and fairness. When people pretend that you're just some generalized ideal they can use to compare with a vague caracature of me or any other "negative" poster, I don't tolerate it. I don't tolerate it from people that define themselves as "positive" while offering nothing of value to the discussion, and I don't tolerate it from people like wetgorilla whom, on a bad day, might be predisposed to write you off as an airhead with no capacity for analytical thought.

If you truly believe that I have written people off as "sheep" for merely expressing that they are looking forward to a movie or are merely content with the direction the studios are taking these stories, that is a particularly hurtful example of ignorance on your part, and on the part of anyone else who believes this. I'm far from perfect and I've lashed out inappropriately many times, but my obsessively "nitpicking" nature that so many people like to criticize is precisely what keeps me from making such a tasteless generalization as that. If someone can show me a real example of when I've called someone a sheep for nothing more than expressing their preferences alone, without any factual-type statements or criticism of their own (which would mean posting a link which leads to one of my own posts in its entirety, not simply quoting something that can't be confirmed or denied as having been posted by me from my own account), I'll acknowledge it, apologize, and explain why it's wrong to say such things. Until someone can show me even one valid example of this-- which has not happened yet-- I will not stand for people taking my words out of context to that extent. The fact that I'm abrasive and harshly critical is in not a justification for such an accusation in the slightest, because I'm made many, many efforts to explain the difference between judging an opinion and judging an attitude, and I've made it a point to refute people who normally agree with me if they make a mistake such as that. I will be nothing less than perfectly honest in response to any such accusation against me. If that is construed as grounds for banishment by the administrators, then so be it, because they're the ones who will have to live with their own hypocrisy.

I hope this clears things up at least a little.

__________________



Well misunderstood or not....doesn't really matter at this point...

Moving on...w/ alittle different view of things....

 

[Herr Logan]

It could still be a robot. A robot can be taken out by being cooled then heated too fast as well. The way they describe Doom being taken home in a box to Latveria makes me think 'robot.'

Yeah, I'd be fine with that. In fact, that would make it even more suspenseful, if you had to wait to find out it was a robot, and also if the Fantastic Four themselves didn't actually find out... until he came back in a later movie.

 

[Herr Logan]

Well misunderstood or not....doesn't really matter at this point...

Moving on...w/ alittle different view of things....

Very cryptic. Remind me to place less value on clarity next time.

 

[Saph]

Yeah, I'd be fine with that. In fact, that would make it even more suspenseful, if you had to wait to find out it was a robot, and also if the Fantastic Four themselves didn't actually find out... until he came back in a later movie.

Nah, an ending where Latverian airport security opens the crate, do something like drop Doom, his face opening up to reveal high-tech machinery and then an abrupt ending would be a LOT more suspenseful than what would appear to be a cheap cop-out to casual audiences.

It would give the audiences a feeling of ''Where the hell is Doom anyway?''

EDIT: ooh! Ooh! And then the robot explodes!

 

[Herr Logan]

Nah, an ending where Latverian airport security opens the crate, do something like drop Doom, his face opening up to reveal high-tech machinery and then an abrupt ending would be a LOT more suspenseful than what would appear to be a cheap cop-out to casual audiences.

It would give the audiences a feeling of ''Where the hell is Doom anyway?''

EDIT: ooh! Ooh! And then the robot explodes!

I didn't mean to say the audience would have to wait until a later movie to find out. I simply meant waiting a few scenes in between the incapacitation and the revelation that it's a robot. I meant that could be the note on which the film ends, but possibly without the Four knowing what we know.

 

[portland2002]

Doom shouldn't be captured at all. I couldn't care less what the countless hordes of pro-studio posters have to say about "realism" and "believability"; the most faithful way to end the conflict with Dr. Doom in a first movie (or any other movie, really) that also leaves his future as a villain wide open for later films is to have him escape, specifically by having the "him" that gets caught turn out to be a robot. There's no excuse whatsoever for them cutting out his huge penchant and talent for robotics.

The FF learning that the captured Doctor Doom is a robot at the end would be a great twist at the end of the picture. Maybe an early scene in the film could show Victor Von Doom building a semi-humanoid robot or even looking at ablueprint/holograph of a robot design.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

I'm sure I mixed up my messages in that paragraph by blurring the issue of your response patterns with my more intense frustration over the countless comments from people I truly do consider to be shallow (based on the specific content of their respective posts, not based on some generalization) perpetually comparing "negative" posters against "postive" posters without offering anyspecific or valid arguments as to how one is better than the other. This is not how you've specifically expressed yourself, but it is how countless others have, and it sickens me. LightninStrikez happens to have very strong opinions against the handling of Dr. Doom in this movie, yet people have still held him up as an example of a "positive" poster who doesn't "whine" and "b1tch" about an allegedly minor aspect of the film such as Dr. Doom. This strikes me as ignorant, shallow and disrespectful on a level far worse than any break of forum ettiquette-- a pervasive disrepect for the intellects of people that choose to apply said intellect instead of merely "going with the flow." Despite my lapses in judgement, I evaluate both you and LightninStrikez in your respective totalities. I respect you both for your honesty and fairness. When people pretend that you're just some generalized ideal they can use to compare with a vague caracature of me or any other "negative" poster, I don't tolerate it. I don't tolerate it from people that define themselves as "positive" while offering nothing of value to the discussion, and I don't tolerate it from people like wetgorilla whom, on a bad day, might be predisposed to write you off as an airhead with no capacity for analytical thought.

So what do you propose we do about all of these "shallow" people Herr? We diehard Marvel/FF fans can only educate so much. As you know we're not in the business of making clones. One can only speak and act for himself and no one else. Here's my take on the situation:

What I've been seeing in the last several weeks is a concerted effort to cut down those whom the forum esteem as valuable posters. In other words, under the guise of getting people to "think for themselves" some (a few to be exact) have attacked, belittled, and slandered certain respected mainstays in this forum. It's like taking down a stoplight at an intersecton--such attempts only breed confusion, dissarray and distrust in what used to be, a solid friendly forum. And this has only been the case in recent weeks.

My question is, are such efforts to "break" vocal ones in this forum really designed to get people to "form their own opinions?" Or could it be that the majority have adopted a more positive view of the film and certain posters want to subvert that opinion--to disrupt it so as to bring their own thinking into play?

There are better ways to do accomplish that, without slamming those who are popular in this forum. As you mentioned, I am quite dissapointed with Movie Doom...yet you don't see me bashing those who accept it. It boils down to the way such statements are packaged and shipped.

So it saddens me to see certain members of this board bully those who either are naive, new, young or content by stripping them of their dignity. It angers me to see these same ones trying to overthrow friendships and bonds here simply because they cannot find their niche. And it dissapoints me that such behavior has yet to be banned.

I sometimes wonder--is it really about "Dr. Doom"?

 

[Saph]

I didn't mean to say the audience would have to wait until a later movie to find out. I simply meant waiting a few scenes in between the incapacitation and the revelation that it's a robot. I meant that could be the note on which the film ends, but possibly without the Four knowing what we know.

I never said that the Four ever found out, did I? Only the Latverian embassy (which Doom would one day rule) would know about the explosion at the airport. Or the fact the Doom they got was filled with Norton Antivirus programs and Doom Online connection. (-beep beep- Doom got mail!)

And I did say it would be the last scene in the movie. The scenes before it will show the Four being accepted as heroes, settling down with their new lives, whatever.

 

[Herr Logan]

The FF learning that the captured Doctor Doom is a robot at the end would be a great twist at the end of the picture. Maybe an early scene in the film could show Victor Von Doom building a semi-humanoid robot or even looking at ablueprint/holograph of a robot design.

Yeah, that would be great.

You know, if we had the real Dr. Doom from beginning to end, but I'll not digress in that direction for now.

The next time Doom shows up (if he does), he should definitely have an army of robots at his command.