I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

Herr Logan said:
Yeah, that would be great. :up:

You know, if we had the real Dr. Doom from beginning to end, but I'll not digress in that direction for now. ;)

The next time Doom shows up (if he does), he should definitely have an army of robots at his command.

:wolverine
Yes, and so FF2 isn't just Fantastic Four-v-Doom Part 2, the robots would be duplicates of the FF, sent to America to commit public crimes, so that the gullible american public will lose trust in the FF.

It would call for some pretty fight scenes as well.
 
Saph said:
Yes, and so FF2 isn't just Fantastic Four-v-Doom Part 2, the robots would be duplicates of the FF, sent to America to commit public crimes, so that the gullible american public will lose trust in the FF.

It would call for some pretty fight scenes as well.

That could work quite well in the sequel.
 
Saph said:
Yes, and so FF2 isn't just Fantastic Four-v-Doom Part 2, the robots would be duplicates of the FF, sent to America to commit public crimes, so that the gullible american public will lose trust in the FF.

It would call for some pretty fight scenes as well.
I like that idea:up:
 
If Fox ever is able to acquire the Hulk movie rights, I'd like to see this in a Hulk sequel.

hulk144.jpg
 
Although I certainly wouldn't want to see Doom as a giant hundreds of feet high, I feel this would be a nice costume design/upgrade in a future FF film.

secretarmor.jpg
 
portland2002 said:
The FF learning that the captured Doctor Doom is a robot at the end would be a great twist at the end of the picture. :up: Maybe an early scene in the film could show Victor Von Doom building a semi-humanoid robot or even looking at ablueprint/holograph of a robot design.

Something along those lines could be good but I really doubt we will see that. So far the only sign that there might be robots (or 'doombots') of any kind in the movie have come from screencaps of the video game (Afaik, there are not any toys of any robots, which you'd think they would make if they were present in the movie).

Personally, and seeing as this Doom apparently revels in his mutation, I would prefer it if Victor was cured of the metal skin business in the finale but in his attempts to stop that process gets his face horribly disfigured then. That way at least by the end of the film we have an unpowered human Doom disfigured by his own hands. It's not a direct analogue to his comic origin, but it is a damn sight closer than anything else we have heard of so far.
Building himself hi-tech artificial armor in an attempt to emulate the power he held before is then workable in a sequel, especially if the writers have to foresight to reference that kind of technology in the first.

(btw- in the comics he did once hold the power cosmic of the Silver Surfer for a brief time and later did devise a means to regain that power artificially, but couldn't use it on himself as it was unstable and would kill him. In true Doom fashion though he did use it on a couple of others - Hauptman and Terrax)
 
portland2002 said:
If Doom's comic book costume is too 'laughable' for the big screen, then that definitely would be. Honestly, considering that the armoured parts is actually Movie!Doom's skin, that costume would have more than a slight homosexual feel.
 
LightninStrikez said:
I can't see the pic of "homosexual" feelings.
Think about it. The armour is his skin. In that case, he's wearing a green tanktop and green speedos.

-shudders-

EDIT: Wait, you mean you can't see it? Well, it's Doom's comic costume, take away the cape, gold buttons, turn the 'kilt' into speedos and you've got it.
 
LightninStrikez said:
I can't see the pic of "homosexual" feelings.

Nor me, but the mention of hundreds of feet high suggests the secret war armor?
 
LightninStrikez said:
So what do you propose we do about all of these "shallow" people Herr? We diehard Marvel/FF fans can only educate so much. As you know we're not in the business of making clones. One can only speak and act for himself and no one else. Here's my take on the situation:

What I've been seeing in the last several weeks is a concerted effort to cut down those whom the forum esteem as valuable posters. In other words, under the guise of getting people to "think for themselves" some (a few to be exact) have attacked, belittled, and slandered certain respected mainstays in this forum. It's like taking down a stoplight at an intersecton--such attempts only breed confusion, dissarray and distrust in what used to be, a solid friendly forum. And this has only been the case in recent weeks.

My question is, are such efforts to "break" vocal ones in this forum really designed to get people to "form their own opinions?" Or could it be that the majority have adopted a more positive view of the film and certain posters want to subvert that opinion--to disrupt it so as to bring their own thinking into play?

There are better ways to do accomplish that, without slamming those who are popular in this forum. As you mentioned, I am quite dissapointed with Movie Doom...yet you don't see me bashing those who accept it. It boils down to the way such statements are packaged and shipped.

So it saddens me to see certain members of this board bully those who either are naive, new, young or content by stripping them of their dignity. It angers me to see these same ones trying to overthrow friendships and bonds here simply because they cannot find their niche. And it dissapoints me that such behavior has yet to be banned.

I sometimes wonder--is it really about "Dr. Doom"?

Edit: Forget it. I'm sick of giving everyone ammunition.

:wolverine
 
Saph said:
Think about it. The armour is his skin. In that case, he's wearing a green tanktop and green speedos.

-shudders-

EDIT: Wait, you mean you can't see it? Well, it's Doom's comic costume, take away the cape, gold buttons, turn the 'kilt' into speedos and you've got it.


*shudders too*

And no, I still can't see it.
 
Saph said:
If Doom's comic book costume is too 'laughable' for the big screen, then that definitely would be. Honestly, considering that the armoured parts is actually Movie!Doom's skin, that costume would have more than a slight homosexual feel.

I don't see anything anything remotely like that. I think this costume could really work. It could be made of leather or even dark green metal. To me, it has a Vaderesque feel to it *puts of flame shield*. Of course I am aware Doom came first, my point is, to me it looks cool and could translate very well. And it's from Secret Wars, where Doom temporarily gained ultimate power.
 
Herr Logan said:
People who merely accept Movie Doom are not and have not been subject to criticism or "bullying" from me. People who insist that I shut up and accept things the way they are instead of discussing alternatives that I feel would have been better get what they ask for. Make no mistake, Lightnin, there is no more "bullying" of people content with the movie by malcontents than there is in the reverse order. The fact is, when I first got in the habit of posting on the internet, my arguments denounced the studios, not the posters. Since then, I've been labeled "fanboy purist" and "whiner" and so forth countless times, and it is this kind of behavior that led me to decide to increase the amount of force used to push back. I do not come barrelling into threads created by content fans and start attacking them merely because they aren't complaining or whatever it is people think I've been doing. I fight fire with fire, and if the people who are defaming me and people who think like I do don't have the logic to back up their disgust and scorn, then I don't consider that an unfair fight-- I consider it a smaller hostile animal getting beaten by a bigger hostile animal because it decided to attack first.

There's no doubt that I've attacked people who weren't directly addressing me, because I feel it's all a part of the same vicious cycle. The same occurs when a new poster pops in and attacks a dissenter when the dissenter is already engaged in an argument that may have been started by someone else. Am I supposed to just keep silent when other people are being allowed to ignorantly insult people merely because they value the source material more than dishonest rumors perpetrated by the studios creating the products about which we're fighting? Nobody can tell me that I'm the one being unfair. If there's a misunderstanding and I went off on the wrong person or went too far, I'll gladly own up to it, because unlike many others, I'm not comfortable with being a hypocrite. I'm one of the most restrained people I've ever met, out of necessity, and so when people claim that I'm the one going overboard when there's hoardes of pro-studio fans describing "whining fanboys" as a bunch of pathetic virgins who live in their parents basement, it makes me sick.

People can say "that's the nature of the internet" all they want, and they can try to use ratios and numbers to justify why a large group of people is allowed to tear into a vocal minority, but that doesn't make it right. People who behave that way are largely cowards, even if they think they're being brave by standing up to the big bad fanboys that use big words and act angry. That's not even close to the far end of the spectrum when it comes to cowardice, but I like to see it get cut off before it progresses.
I've seen young teenagers start threads in the community asking for advice because they're depressed and flunking out of school met with merciless teasing and further persecution by pretty much every single poster who came rushing into the thread looking to make things worse. When I point out their cowardly and cruel behavior and invite them to gang up on a person who's also depressed and has troubles with school but have twice their !Q's, they tend to shut up, because they've got no argument to respond with and they're not full-blown sociopaths. That's an example of what happens of when the bullying majority is allowed to do as they please with no opposition.

Don't even think of telling me that the amount of conflict on these boards constitutes equal sides of the argument, and don't pretend that the "positive" side is any less nasty than the "negative" side. The fact that there are trolls and "Manspider"-types running around saying stupid things and annoying people does not excuse the conduct of people who attack dissenters of all types. And pretending to "respect" everyone's opinions doesn't constitute real respect, just like how when shallow people who claim to "love" all of humanity, that really just means their "love" is worthless and they make no distinctions. They fact that so many people play the "respect all opinions" card doesn't actually make these forums a place of universal agreement and civility. When Wetgorilla opened up his "20 Thing Going Wrong..." thread, I didn't see you trying to hold back the people that immediately attacked him in a far greater proportion than whatever they think he said that was so provocative. But in that very thread, when someone made generalizations about albafan specifically or out-of-line comments about Saph, did you see me just cheering them on? Every last wretched one of you is culpable for your own actions, no matter how much you hate me or respect me or how you feel about anyone else here, so don't pretend I'm the one leading some indiscriminate revolution just meant to piss people off.

:wolverine

Actually my post was not written with you in mind. ;)

But nevertheless...the difference between those two threads was stark. The original arrived with a substantial list. Since then, it's grown past 50 positives. The "Things Gone Wrong" asked for the fans here to create proof of things wrong with this film. There's a difference.

To illustrate: Having known you for a while I know you have a girlfriend. I'm assuming you care about her. Let's say you are totally, unequivocally in love with her and marriage is imminent. True, as someone who is imperfect, you can see she has flaws. Yet you can easily think of 20+ reasons you love her anyway. There's no doubt that despite these idiosyncrasies, you want this to work.

Would you appreciate it if I told you to think up 20 things wrong with her? How would you feel if every comment I made to you about the woman you loved was bent on changing your mind about her? What if you refused to cooperate with me and "brainstorm" up some negativity? Would you appreciate it then if I went on a conquest of belittling anything I could find remotely wrong with her to FORCE you to agree with me?


Well Herr, that is what some have done here. July 8th is imminent. Many of these fans are in love with this film. Despite the obvious flaws, they WANT it to succeed. They love the actors in them. And they are excited about the possibilities.

Therefore, when efforts are made to force all of these individuals to doubt themselves and eachother, to hate the very film they are full of anticipation for--such efforts are going to recieve a vicious backlash. It's unavoidable.

I understand that reality. And I know you do as well. And that is why neither of us held anyone "back" from thrashing that thread. Does it make the comments made there right? No. But neither was the motive of the thread in the first place. If it had been situated in the Catwoman boards, it would have recieved tremendous support, as the fans there hated that film with a passion.

This is not the Catwoman forum.

I've been here for quite a while. I've seen this forum weather many storms--especially back in April and July of 2004. I've also seen the members in this forum try to pull together and look for reasons of hope. No movie is going to be perfect. But when you dwell upon the negative you vandalize your own excitement for the film, and you handicap your ability to enjoy it. If one wants to do that--fine.

But why sabotage the enjoyment of others?




:ff:
 
portland2002 said:
I don't see anything anything remotely like that. I think this costume could really work. It could be made of leather or even dark green metal.
Leather would only increase the homosexual overtone. He'd be literally wearing a thong. And what is the point of Doom wearing armour if his skin is made of it?

To me, it has a Vaderesque feel to it *puts of flame shield*. Of course I am aware Doom came first, my point is, to me it looks cool and could translate very well. And it's from Secret Wars, where Doom temporarily gained ultimate power.
His 616 costume is way more Vaderesque than.. that. What you must consider is Doom is made of armour. That Doom is WEARING armour. Movie!Doom would essentially be wearing a tanktop and speedos.
 
LightninStrikez said:
Actually my post was not written with you in mind. ;)

But nevertheless...the difference between those two threads was stark. The original arrived with a substantial list. Since then, it's grown past 50 positives. The "Things Gone Wrong" asked for the fans here to create proof of things wrong with this film. There's a difference.

To illustrate: Having known you for a while I know you have a girlfriend. I'm assuming you care about her. Let's say you are totally, unequivocally in love with her and marriage is imminent. True, as someone who is imperfect, you can see she has flaws. Yet you can easily think of 20+ reasons you love her anyway. There's no doubt that despite these idiosyncrasies, you want this to work.

Would you appreciate it if I told you to think up 20 things wrong with her? How would you feel if every comment I made to you about the woman you loved was bent on changing your mind about her? What if you refused to cooperate with me and "brainstorm" up some negativity? Would you appreciate it then if I went on a conquest of belittling anything I could find remotely wrong with her to FORCE you to agree with me?


Well Herr, that is what some have done here. July 8th is imminent. Many of these fans are in love with this film. Despite the obvious flaws, they WANT it to succeed. They love the actors in them. And they are excited about the possibilities.

Therefore, when efforts are made to force all of these individuals to doubt themselves and eachother, to hate the very film they are full of anticipation for--such efforts are going to recieve a vicious backlash. It's unavoidable.

I understand that reality. And I know you do as well. And that is why neither of us held anyone "back" from thrashing that thread. Does it make the comments made there right? No. But neither was the motive of the thread in the first place. If it had been situated in the Catwoman boards, it would have recieved tremendous support, as the fans there hated that film with a passion.

This is not the Catwoman forum.

I've been here for quite a while. I've seen this forum weather many storms--especially back in April and July of 2004. I've also seen the members in this forum try to pull together and look for reasons of hope. At this time, there are more good things going in favor of the film than negative in most people's opinion here. No movie is going to be perfect. But when you dwell upon the negative you vandalize your own excitement for the film, and you handicap your ability to enjoy it. If one wants to do that--fine.

But why sabotage the enjoyment of others?




:ff:

Don't compare my girlfriend to a big-budget summer movie, Lightnin. Don't compare anyone's girlfriend like that, but especially not mine.

You can compare her to a classic comic book, but only a really, really good one. :o

Seriously, though, I think it's pretty cheap to compare an adapted work of fiction to a human being that has given someone else a valid reason for living.
You're not going to marry this movie, Lightnin. This movie is going to service you for money, as well as everyone else who can pay. It has no feelings, and anyone who loves it as much as I love my woman has problems worse than any I ever had or ever will have.

If Wetgorilla's intention with his thread was to get people to strain themselves to think of flaws in the film, that's his deal. All by myself, I could have come up with at least 50 off the top of my head, but since I'm an overly meticulous and exacting person in a lot of ways, I didn't want to give someone an excuse to use my argument against me just because I have trouble deciding how much information constitutes one "thing," since I can't divide any one big flaw in this movie into several little ones. Regardless, it is not my intention to force people to dislike anything. I respond to statements of opinion (factual statements, even if they aren't proven facts) and counter-attack when people attack others unfairly. If you like the movie, great. Seriously, I don't care. I just don't want to hear any nonsense about how it's "better" or it was the right thing to do, changing the original characters so drastically. Those kinds of statements can-- and deserve to be-- argued, so I argue them. I don't care in the least that you personally will like this movie, Lightnin. You've done something quite unique in that you've honestly pointed out a huge flaw in the movie we're discussing and simply like the whole of it anyway. Too many people are ignorant and unintelligent enough to think that they need to justify everything they like and make it seem perfect. These people are literally worthless to me. Intelligence counts more than passion as far as I see it, and if there's the presence of both, great. Honesty is extremely important to me, so if people speak untruths or just say things about which the veracity is unimportant to them, they get what they deserve when someone criticizes them. If people are honest and logical, there's nothing to argue.

If you continue to believe that I'm actually out to make other people hate movies, then that's a failing in you. I've made myself at least clear enough to get that point across.

:wolverine
 
Saph said:
Leather would only increase the homosexual overtone. He'd be literally wearing a thong. And what is the point of Doom wearing armour if his skin is made of it?


His 616 costume is way more Vaderesque than.. that. What you must consider is Doom is made of armour. That Doom is WEARING armour. Movie!Doom would essentially be wearing a tanktop and speedos.

You're not a homophobe, are you?

I wouldn't want him wearing that kind of costume either, but for reasons other than an unreasonable fear or hatred of an irrelevant label.

:wolverine
 
Going off what has been said in here by AF,Lightnin and Herr i would just like to say this.I have been guilty of jumping on negative posters and have not done it in a while.I do not have the knowledge of Doom to argue the points made so i mainly stay out of here.From what i have seen of the F4 themselves i feel that they have been represented well.Now my point in here is this,I have tried to change my take on this whole situation,I have been fairly quiet the last few weeks as this place has become a complete warzone and i really think there is only one solution,Respect.If someone says as herr and O9 and wetgorrilla have time and again that the source material has not been translated to screen acurately i can't argue, it hasnt.The thing that sickens me is the all round complete lack of human respect from both sides.If someone isnt happy i don't want to change their minds,we are all adults here and surely have more in life than this movie or this board ?Yet it seems that personal attacks are the solution to everything,There are those who think everything is hunky dory and blast the naysayers with insults such as "purist" and "sad loser" for their staunch devotion to the source material,it must seem like being attacked by a phsycotic version of the waltons.On the other hand the rebuke is insults of "sheep" and "coward" to name 2 whith overiding feeling that the purist vision seems to act like the nazi's as if they are the master race superior to those that are accepting the changes.My view is this i am not changing anyones mind and i dont want to they have the right to be upset and that is fine but i also have the right to look at what i percieve as the good things in this movie without being labled by anyone.Lets all try to be respectul human beings first and posters second.
 
Herr Logan said:
Don't compare my girlfriend to a big-budget summer movie, Lightnin. Don't compare anyone's girlfriend like that, but especially not mine.

You can compare her to a classic comic book, but only a really, really good one. :o

Seriously, though, I think it's pretty cheap to compare an adapted work of fiction to a human being that has given someone else a valid reason for living.
You're not going to marry this movie, Lightnin. This movie is going to service you for money, as well as everyone else who can pay. It has no feelings, and anyone who loves it as much as I love my woman has problems worse than any I ever had or ever will have.

If Wetgorilla's intention with his thread was to get people to strain themselves to think of flaws in the film, that's his deal. All by myself, I could have come up with at least 50 off the top of my head, but since I'm an overly meticulous and exacting person in a lot of ways, I didn't want to give someone an excuse to use my argument against me just because I have trouble deciding how much information constitutes one "thing," since I can't divide any one big flaw in this movie into several little ones. Regardless, it is not my intention to force people to dislike anything. I respond to statements of opinion (factual statements, even if they aren't proven facts) and counter-attack when people attack others unfairly. If you like the movie, great. Seriously, I don't care. I just don't want to hear any nonsense about how it's "better" or it was the right thing to do, changing the original characters so drastically. Those kinds of statements can-- and deserve to be-- argued, so I argue them. I don't care in the least that you personally will like this movie, Lightnin. You've done something quite unique in that you've honestly pointed out a huge flaw in the movie we're discussing and simply like the whole of it anyway. Too many people are ignorant and unintelligent enough to think that they need to justify everything they like and make it seem perfect. These people are literally worthless to me. Intelligence counts more than passion as far as I see it, and if there's the presence of both, great. Honesty is extremely important to me, so if people speak untruths or just say things about which the veracity is unimportant to them, they get what they deserve when someone criticizes them. If people are honest and logical, there's nothing to argue.

If you continue to believe that I'm actually out to make other people hate movies, then that's a failing in you. I've made myself at least clear enough to get that point across.

:wolverine

No, I don't think you are out to make people hate movies. We've discussed and aligned our intellectual perspectives on other films outside of this forum, so I know full well where you're coming from beyond Fantastic Four.

As far as comparing your girlfriend to the film itself--the essence of the illustration was symbolic--not to be taken literrally. That was not meant to be offensive to you personally. Besides, I seriously doubt anyone loves this film as much as their spouse. :cool:

However, it's the principal of the story that carries my point.

In other words, the "love" is to be equated with devotion. And devotion can be applied to anything you care deeply about. It could be a friend, a car, a career, a classic comic book--whatever. This film has devoted fans.

And when such devoted fanboys/girls and others are constantly being coerced to hate something they've already chosen to like--there's going to be a bristling effect. People don't like being manipulated. And they don't like others telling them that they are stupid or less than human for finding something attractive. If folks minds are made up that the film has more going for it than against it--why is that a crime? Does one have to drum up an equally numbered bulleted list of negatives and positives to qualify as a "real" balanced fan?

Who are we trying to prove something to here???
 
hunter rider said:
Going off what has been said in here by AF,Lightnin and Herr i would just like to say this.I have been guilty of jumping on negative posters and have not done it in a while.I do not have the knowledge of Doom to argue the points made so i mainly stay out of here.From what i have seen of the F4 themselves i feel that they have been represented well.Now my point in here is this,I have tried to change my take on this whole situation,I have been fairly quiet the last few weeks as this place has become a complete warzone and i really think there is only one solution,Respect.If someone says as herr and O9 and wetgorrilla have time and again that the source material has not been translated to screen acurately i can't argue, it hasnt.The thing that sickens me is the all round complete lack of human respect from both sides.If someone isnt happy i don't want to change their minds,we are all adults here and surely have more in life than this movie or this board ?Yet it seems that personal attacks are the solution to everything,There are those who think everything is hunky dory and blast the naysayers with insults such as "purist" and "sad loser" for their staunch devotion to the source material,it must seem like being attacked by a phsycotic version of the waltons.On the other hand the rebuke is insults of "sheep" and "coward" to name 2 whith overiding feeling that the purist vision seems to act like the nazi's as if they are the master race superior to those that are accepting the changes.My view is this i am not changing anyones mind and i dont want to they have the right to be upset and that is fine but i also have the right to look at what i percieve as the good things in this movie without being labled by anyone.Lets all try to be respectul human beings first and posters second.

Sounds good to me. :up:

:wolverine
 
Me thinks you all are on fire with good points today. All of you....

Doom would be proud.
 

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