I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

[Saph]

You're not in a position to say what he should or should not be moaning about, especially when it comes to superhero costumes. That's an essential part of the genre and it's a visual medium.

But when the costumes are something he should actually be liking and exactly what he asked for, it gets a tad silly.

Don't even start with "Flame on," because I'm absolutely confident that they'll find some way to demean both the line and the audience. If I'm wrong, fantastic. If not, then I was prepared for it.

Well, we could ask Lightnin if there is a line that demeans it, couldn't we?

You've made sweeping and absolute statements about the Spider-Man movies, Saph. You've made more absolutes than I ever did, and the posts I'm referring to don't include any exceptions for things you did like. I don't see why you can't admit you're just as fallible in this regard as any other passionate poster.

Because I don't insult people who have different views. If they try and justify blasphemy, then I would. If they insult me for not liking something the majority likes or liking something that the majority doesn't like, then I return the favour.

But Wetgorilla has shown he can do nothing but complain and insult; and that's why he needs to go.

 

[Herr Logan]

It's because those idiots are justifying those changes with the general public, even though the general public could care less. Whether or not the public like the changes, they'll notice the changes.


You wanna know why I wasn't completely objective? Because we hadn't heard A THING about Doom other than he was a corporate businessman and had organic armour. And then we found out he was wearing the comic mask, and each new peice of information was reassuring. Then I noticed the similarities between Movie and Comic Doom, and guess what, they've been proved to be true.
You've also just proved a point, you would say you trusted a hardcore fan's opinion on the costumes; well Lightnins a hardcore fan of the FF, so wouldn't his view on the script be accurate?

I said I'd trust him more and give him the benefit of the doubt over a person who isn't as invested. He's near the top of my list when it comes to people having valid input on the subject of this movie. That doesn't mean I trust him completely. Maybe this isn't obvious, but I don't trust anyone completely about anything. That alone makes me more suited to judge what Dr. Doom should be like than the average studio-worshipping sycophant, because I know what it's like to be an arrogant, miserable bastard that wants the world to be what it oughtta be.

 

[Saph]

I said I'd trust him more and give him the benefit of the doubt over a person who isn't as invested. He's near the top of my list when it comes to people having valid input on the subject of this movie. That doesn't mean I trust him completely. Maybe this isn't obvious, but I don't trust anyone completely about anything. That alone makes me more suited to judge what Dr. Doom should be like than the average studio-worshipping sycophant, because I know what it's like to be an arrogant, miserable bastard that wants the world to be what it oughtta be.

Well let's just hope the script is exactly what Lightnin says it is and Julian plays Doom well.

 

[Hunter Rider]

This has gone a bit off topic.The main reason many of us posted in here is b/c Lightnin's integrity was being questioned.Now as herr said i'm sure with something as subjective as a movie our views may not aligne with Lightnin's when the time comes,also things that sound weak on paper can look great on screen and vice versa.For many of us wetgorilla's negativity isn't the problem its his complete lack of respect for other posters and his degrading manner of talking to those he disagree's with,I could care a less about him hating the movie but his racialy questionable insult towards lightnin as well as attacking the mans job(in another thread)along with the disparaging remarks in this one smacks not of hard fought debate -ala saph and herr-right now- but of a more insidious agenda IMO

 

[Herr Logan]

But when the costumes are something he should actually be liking and exactly what he asked for, it gets a tad silly.

You're not in a position to say what he should or should not like. You can't judge a person's preferences, only his opinions. I'm not saying I agree with him on the costumes, I'm saying that when you outright invalidate his opinion on them, you give more power to the pro-studio/anti-source material drones that keep insisting that they not use faithful costumes, in every superhero movie that comes out. As far as I'm concerned with the movie Spider-Man costumes, that was a dodged bullet, not a sure win. You don't like it when people insist on making the Batman look like a carnival prize, so why are you so fervent about Wetgorilla wanting a faithful redntion of the FF? Judge his arguments, not his preferences.

Because I don't insult people who have different views. If they try and justify blasphemy, then I would. If they insult me for not liking something the majority likes or liking something that the majority doesn't like, then I return the favour.

But Wetgorilla has shown he can do nothing but complain and insult; and that's why he needs to go.

That's an absolute statement, and therefore innaccurate. Stick to the facts.

 

[Herr Logan]

Well let's just hope the script is exactly what Lightnin says it is and Julian plays Doom well.

I can't say I hope one way or another. They've fundamentally bastardized Doom, and I'm now at the point where often I'd rather have something that is obviously and blatantly unfaithful so there will be no confusion instead of a half-assed job that has enough similarities to give anti-comic fans more ammo for arguing people like me. If they wont do it right, I'd prefer they don't do it at all. That money could be put to better use. I hope it's bearable, though, since I do intend to watch it once.

 

[Saph]

You don't like it when people insist on making the Batman look like a carnival prize, so why are you so fervent about Wetgorilla wanting a faithful redntion of the FF? Judge his arguments, not his preferences.

You haven't been understanding me. Wetgorilla wanted a faithful FF costume. And he got it. That's what's so absolutely mind-boggling. The only thing missing from the FF costumes is the black band around the waist, and even the Thing has that. If he said he didn't like the costume for aesthetic reasons, fine. But he called them horrendous bastardizations. Completely inaccurate. And that is wrong.

 

[Herr Logan]

...his racialy questionable insult towards lightnin as well as attacking the mans job...

Where was this? Can you give me links?

That kind of behavior is completely unnacceptable. I just need to see proof before I can take it as fact though. You understand, right?

 

[Saph]

Where was this? Can you give me links?

That kind of behavior is completely unnacceptable. I just need to see proof before I can take it as fact though. You understand, right?

I've seen this post before too. I think it's in the Thing thread, or at least one of the character appreciation threads.

 

[Herr Logan]

You haven't been understanding me. Wetgorilla wanted a faithful FF costume. And he got it. That's what's so absolutely mind-boggling. The only thing missing from the FF costumes is the black band around the waist, and even the Thing has that. If he said he didn't like the costume for aesthetic reasons, fine. But he called them horrendous bastardizations. Completely inaccurate. And that is wrong.

I'll just leave it at that, then. I'm actually surprised at how close they are, even with the deviations. I like the costumes, personally. You just weren't making a good argument about the costumes before.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Where was this? Can you give me links?

That kind of behavior is completely unnacceptable. I just need to see proof before I can take it as fact though. You understand, right?

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5539268&postcount=3104

here it is,notice the monkey reference ,and he knows caliph is half black,it may seem small but coupled with venom he spewed about caliph's job i wouldn't take this lightly and i know lightnin found it offencive even though e brushed it off at the time b/c he told me

 

[Herr Logan]

I've seen this post before too. I think it's in the Thing thread, or at least one of the character appreciation threads.

Link, dammit!

 

[Hunter Rider]

I've seen this post before too. I think it's in the Thing thread, or at least one of the character appreciation threads.

there's also comments about alba not being "pure" enough to play sue,there all subtle i'd expect nothing less but the undertones are there

 

[Saph]

Link, dammit!

I'm finding it..

 

[Herr Logan]

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5539268&postcount=3104

here it is,notice the monkey reference ,and he knows caliph is half black,it may seem small but coupled with venom he spewed about caliph's job i wouldn't take this lightly and i know lightnin found it offencive even though e brushed it off at the time b/c he told me

"...like you two monkeys..."

Is that referring to Lightnin and you?

 

[Hunter Rider]

"...like you two monkeys..."

Is that referring to Lightnin and you?

yes only i'm white and caliph is black,the argument was between me and him yet suddenly there were 2 monkeys,andif you look at his 20 things wrong thread you'll see how he talked to kel like she's crap and made attacks on lightnins job,I am not about everything being positive and have no quarell with the otherside of the coin,but mysoginist,biggoted personal attacks are uncalled for IMO

 

[Herr Logan]

yes only i'm white and caliph is black,the argument was between me and him yet suddenly there were 2 monkeys,andif you look at his 20 things wrong thread you'll see how he talked to kel like she's crap and made attacks on lightnins job,I am not about everything being positive and have no quarell with the otherside of the coin,but mysoginist,biggoted personal attacks are uncalled for IMO

Agreed.

I just tend to be very careful before calling a statement or person bigoted, since a lot of people throw that label and its synonyms around very casually. I still don't know what to conclude about that single post, since not only is it directed at two different people of different "races", but his own name is that of a gorilla. I don't want to be guilty of erroneously judging someone as racist if it's possible that he's using that term to imply that you guys are merely lesser primates. I know I call people "lesser animals" all the time, and it's purely an intellectually elitist remark coming from me, not bigoted.

But as for misogynistic, I agree.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Agreed.

I just tend to be very careful before calling a statement or person bigoted, since a lot of people throw that label and its synonyms around very casually. I still don't know what to conclude about that single post, since not only is it directed at two different people of different "races", but his own name is that of a gorilla. I don't want to be guilty of erroneously judging someone as racist if it's possible that he's using that term to imply that you guys are merely lesser primates. I know I call people "lesser animals" all the time, and it's purely an intellectually elitist remark coming from me, not bigoted.

But as for misogynistic, I agree.

I fully understand you position herr,and perhaps we were over sensitive to the comment given his past behaviour.Also i would personaly never on any level call a person of colour a monkey due to the conotations of the remark over the years but again context over a computer screen is difficult to assertain.I respect your take on the situation though,perhaps you should talk to lightnin personaly as the maliciosness has been more concentrated towards him over the months than me

 

[Saph]

All this talk of black and white people and monkeys is making me think of this:

 

[Herr Logan]

I fully understand you position herr,and perhaps we were over sensitive to the comment given his past behaviour.Also i would personaly never on any level call a person of colour a monkey due to the conotations of the remark over the years but again context over a computer screen is difficult to assertain.I respect your take on the situation though,perhaps you should talk to lightnin personaly as the maliciosness has been more concentrated towards him over the months than me

You're a good guy, Hunter. Don't ever change.

 

[Herr Logan]

All this talk of black and white people and monkeys is making me think of this:

So much for lunch!

 

[surfergirl]

Lightnin is not an optimist on the scale of Albafan, Herr. He wasn't extremely happy with Doom, until he read the script. He also was one of the main protesters when Jessica Alba was cast, although he now accepts her. I wouldn't call him someone that only sees the bright side. I think he likes what he is seeing, but not so much that anything bad he sees right through.

And being a Pessimist on the level of Wetgorilla (the mindset that everything sucks) wouldn't make the review any more factual, either.

you sum it up quite well Saph, Lightnin doesn't accept everything as "gold" just because Fantastic Four is finally being made into a movie, he needs proof to see something in a positive light. so bashing him for creating a thread in which he shares overviews of each character is absurd. he was creating a thread for the fans on the board to discuss, and there was great discussion going on. he allowed all of us to get a sense of what the characters were like from what he read on paper and did a pretty damn good job in his character reviews. he has taken what he read from the script to further build his opinions of how the movie is going to turn out what is wrong with that? nothing! if someone sees this film in a positive light it is not a crime. he has read a lot and seen the same footage all of us have. those are credible ways to build your confidence in this film.

i am sick of Wetgorilla's attitude and trolling. nothing is good enough for him even when many of his outrageous claims have been proven to be wrong. being a pessimist is one thing, if you want to have a "dooms day" attitude so be it, but don't come on this board and disrespect others' threads and opinions just because you don't like what you are seeing/reading. that shows a complete lack in character and judgement. i am tired of him attacking people on this board and through PMs just because they give credible, legit summaries of what is going on with this movie and how well it lines up with the comics in many ways, or just for sharing their honest opinions. tearing down threads that spark great discussions on the relationship between the comic and movie is getting old. calling people names, disrespecting them, and degrading other's character just because they won't join your pity party is very old. calling someone "monkey" when you know their ethnic background is a slap in the face, racist and intolerable! all in all Wet is a troll who will stop at nothing then to tear discussions, people, and threads down on this board because no one listens to his nonsense. it needs to stop. how dare he attack posters on this forum and insult them based on race, opinion and personal character.

Lightnin's script review thread is awesome and he deserves to be complemented on all of the work he put into it so that others on this board can be excited about what is to come on July 8th. it is not a crime, it is a great way to spark discussion and further interest in the movie that is bring the Fantastic Four to life on the big screen this summer. thank you Lightnin for your hard work. i know i am a little late getting in on this conversation going on in this post but i wanted to get my opinion out as well. as for Doom he sounds sinister as hell from Lightnin's review i am curious to see how his persona looks coming to life on the big screen. there has definitly been improvement from the way he was going to be presented in the Frost draft, i think we can all be happy about that much.

 

[Kmack]

(insults aside) good post surfergirl I totally agree.

 

[kittykatkr]

ya i agree with u guys.

 

[surfergirl]

(insults aside) good post surfergirl I totally agree.

thank you Kmack. i don't usually insult others but in this case i was fed up, he totally has disrespected and insulted numerous people on this board.