I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

seymour said:
And maybe Herr Logan can use his time in the sin bin to review a few things and undertake (several) anger management courses.

"The I was provoked" defence does not hold water. Looked to me like a recent murder case when the guy's excuse for murdering his wife was she called me a **** so I punched her in the head, slammed her into the cupboard then jumped on her. A clear case of justifiable homicide.

For the record, Logan is a very cool guy, I chat with him on AIM, he is very stand up, and he tends to get mad at a good many of the same things I do. But he's also on these message boards much more then I am, so I can see why he made those comments.

And he didn't kill anyone. These is a difference between insulting someone on a message board, and ****ing murdering someone. If you can't tell the difference, I'd seriously be questioning your ability to comprehend reality friend ;)
 
Langoth said:
For the record, Logan is a very cool guy, I chat with him on AIM, he is very stand up, and he tends to get mad at a good many of the same things I do. But he's also on these message boards much more then I am, so I can see why he made those comments.

And he didn't kill anyone. These is a difference between insulting someone on a message board, and ****ing murdering someone. If you can't tell the difference, I'd seriously be questioning your ability to comprehend reality friend ;)

I believe she was being metaphorical.... and I hope this is the last post on this topic. This is supposed to be a thread about Doom. Let's not get into these who has the last word kind of things, pleaasseeee! I hate it when these threads get sidetracked with personality conflicts. I think Logan is a cool guy too but I think what he did was not. We can go round and round the mulberry bush about that and get absolutely nowhere. So move on.
 
Langoth said:
For Doctor Doom you mean? You mean have I read the F4?

Surprisingly, I haven't in YEARS, not since I was about 9, I can't even remember the last F4 story I read to be honest. But I did have high hopes for this movie.

Thats why Doctor Doom's origin didn't matter as much to me.

I like strong plots, I like strong villains especially.

I played through the videogame, and I've seen most of the trailers. I find you can often judge a good deal about the movies from the games. Most of the time if I hate the games, or have a bad feeling from the plot of the game (which is usually similar to the movie, but altered so people can kick more ass), I tend to be right about the movie as well.

This is just from my personal experience.

Forgive me, but I find that the fact that you make judgements about movies from the video games to be a bit frightening. :D Roger Ebert, Kenneth Turan et al must be missing out on something here....

Langoth said:
So, I'm saying, from what I've seen so far, the main villain seems bland. It has nothing to do with how much like Comic-Doom he is, I can barely remember anything about the F4 its been so long. I tend to stick the X-men, and I haven't read any fo the stories where DOom and the X-men mingle (thgouh I know there is a few times they have, make no mistake).

I'll try to see the movie if I can, along with Batman Begins as Logan keeps hounding me on AIM to see it, but I'm not going to have the highest expectations going in.

It may turn out well, but from what I've seen from Doctor Doom, I have the least expecations for a strong villain role. Thats just my opinion, in no means does it mean he will be, this is just from what I've observed so far.

Truthfully, I feel that very few comic book villains have been successfully translated to the screen ( I have to reserve judgement on Batman Begins until I see it). I do feel that the first stage (at least we hope it is just the first stage)of Doom's development in the movies will leave hard core comic fans a bit disappointed. But very few of them realize that the early FF stories with Doom would not play well to a modern day audience. Most of them grew up on "Full Metal" Doom and probably haven't read the early Lee/Kirby issues. It really took about three years in the comics before the character evolves into the Lord of Latveria as we know him today.

I can see why you are calling Movie Doom a bland villain though he may have a few scenes that may dispel that. For example, we haven't seen a clips of him killing the smarmy financial backer in the parking garage but to me it read like it had potential in the script. I think Fox is playing it a bit safe with the character since they are promoting this as a family adventure film. We also have to remember that even in the comics, it took until issue #57, where we see Doom seduce and then betray the Silver Surfer in order to steal the Power Cosmic, that we see a villain of true malevolent granduer.

Suggested reading for you would be to try and get a copy of a graphic novel from about 15 years ago called "Doctor Strange/Doctor Doom: Triumph and Torment" or even some of the John Byrne FF as a starting point so you can make an informed opinion on how strong a villain Doom is the comic book pantheon.
 
I know Doom is a strong villain in the comics Iron, I know this, he is one of the most well known villains for a reason, and a good deal of my friends are Doctor Doom fans, and we all have pretty similar tastes in villains, so if they like Doctor D, I think its likely I'd like him too.

My current favorite Mastermind Villain is Sinister. Mr. Sinister :P

BUt thats an entirely different subject :D

And as for the video-games.

You'd be surprised how much they reflect the movies in terms of quaility. The better the game, the better the movie, thats just from what I've noticed.

SM2 game was amazing, so was the movie.

I'm a little weary of Batman Begins after having played the gmae, only because of the plot, but from what I can tell, the characterizations seem well enough.
 
Langoth said:
I know Doom is a strong villain in the comics Iron, I know this, he is one of the most well known villains for a reason, and a good deal of my friends are Doctor Doom fans, and we all have pretty similar tastes in villains, so if they like Doctor D, I think its likely I'd like him too.

My current favorite Mastermind Villain is Sinister. Mr. Sinister :P

BUt thats an entirely different subject :D

And as for the video-games.

You'd be surprised how much they reflect the movies in terms of quaility. The better the game, the better the movie, thats just from what I've noticed.

SM2 game was amazing, so was the movie.

I'm a little weary of Batman Begins after having played the gmae, only because of the plot, but from what I can tell, the characterizations seem well enough.


The Batman Begins game is average and the movie is amazing. Therefore making your theory flawed. The game was basically just made to go along with the movie release. The game differs from the movie in a lot of spots.
 
RedIsNotBlue said:
The Batman Begins game is average and the movie is amazing. Therefore making your theory flawed. The game was basically just made to go along with the movie release. The game differs from the movie in a lot of spots.


Once again, I also base my assumption on Batman Begins on reviews I've read. Its not just the game, in its case, I did read reviews as well, I'm just not impressed by the plot.

From what I can tell however, the characterizations may make up for that however.
 
Langoth said:
I know Doom is a strong villain in the comics Iron, I know this, he is one of the most well known villains for a reason, and a good deal of my friends are Doctor Doom fans, and we all have pretty similar tastes in villains, so if they like Doctor D, I think its likely I'd like him too..

Ok, fair enough. I think you may enjoy reading some of his better exploits though when you get a chance.

Langoth said:
My current favorite Mastermind Villain is Sinister. Mr. Sinister :P

BUt thats an entirely different subject :D

And as for the video-games.

You'd be surprised how much they reflect the movies in terms of quaility. The better the game, the better the movie, thats just from what I've noticed.

SM2 game was amazing, so was the movie.

I'm a little weary of Batman Begins after having played the gmae, only because of the plot, but from what I can tell, the characterizations seem well enough.


I still don't think you should lean so heavily on impressions gleaned from a game. Some of my fellow FF fans think that Diablo is a really cool character in the video game yet these same guys agree that he is one of the lamest villains in the FF comics. Truthfully, I think it's not the villains who are lame it's the writers.:D For every good Doom story, I could point you to at least as many terrible ones!
 
Iron Maiden said:
Ok, fair enough. I think you may enjoy reading some of his better exploits though when you get a chance.




I still don't think you should lean so heavily on impressions gleaned from a game. Some of my fellow FF fans think that Diablo is a really cool character in the video game yet these same guys agree that he is one of the lamest villains in the FF comics. Truthfully, I think it's not the villains who are lame it's the writers.:D For every good Doom story, I could point you to at least as many terrible ones!

Actually, the FF game itself is really fun, I'm just worried about Doom here. And from trailers, as well as the game, I can say he seems fairly bland, just from what I've seen. In the fully movie he may blow my mind, I never know.

In the Batman Begins videogame, 1 of the 2 villains is fairly well done, Scarecrow is terribly voice acted, so I'm going under the assumption he's better in the movie.

If I can, I'll go see the FF movie in theaters, I'm not saying it will be bad at all. Everything I've said so far, has been "From what I've seen so far"

I'll know the real, solid answer when I get to the theater. However, I usually have a pretty keen instinct when it comes to villain performance (thats why I haven't passed judgement on Scarecrow yet, as I had too little to go on), so I am more worried that Doom will end up being very bland and boring.

I am making, effectively, a fairly educated guess and going off by my villainous instincts.
 
Hmm so calling someone a herd animal = a ban? Can anyone say, selective enforcement? That is assuming name calling is against the "rules" on here.
 
zanos said:
Hmm so calling someone a herd animal = a ban? Can anyone say, selective enforcement? That is assuming name calling is against the "rules" on here.

actually it was Piss off Herd animal which is degrading
 
LMAO...

BEST. REVIEW. EVER.

Fantastic Four C-



20th Century Fox / Marvel Enterprises Year Released: 2005
MPAA Rating: PG-13
Director: Tim Story
Writer: Mark Frost, Michael France
Cast: Ioan Gruffudd, Jessica Alba, Chris Evans, Michael Chiklis, Julian McMahon, Kerry Washington.



Review by Rob Vaux

Once again, I, Victor Von Doom, must endure another affront to my genius. For too long, the exploits of Marvel's so-called "heroes" have been fodder for the skulking lapdogs of Hollywood studios. Doom has watched their efforts and laughed, knowing that they would be as ants before a colossus when the Dr. Doom movie finally arrived. A pox on Sam Raimi and his Spider-Man foolishness! Fie upon Bryan Singer and his X-Men irrelevance! Their success, their awards, their accolades, all are meaningless. Soon, an adaptation of Doom's exploits would appear -- marked, no doubt, by the minor appearance of Reed Richards and his so-called "Fantastic Four" -- and then the scions of Tinseltown would tremble. For none can stand before the power of Doom, least of all those attending the multiplex during this crucial summer marketing period.

But what's this?! The resultant film is somehow unworthy of me! Aarrgggh!!! Curse you, 20th Century Fox! You dare to put a director such as Tim Story in charge of my tale?! Doom looks upon the man's efforts and sees naught but weak characterization and bumbling action scenes. The drama is poorly justified, the dialogue half-witted and dull. Why, the lowest of my minions could helm a better production than this. The film -- named Fantastic Four rather than Doomapolooza in an act that will cost yon Fox executives dear -- is rife with shortcomings that I can scarcely sully my tongue to utter. Low indeed have Marvel's fortunes sunk when this is the best they can send against their archrival's superior Batman Begins.

The film's lionization of Reed Richards and noted deviations from Marvel canon are to be forgiven. Doom expects a certain amount of creative license in his cinematic adaptations. What cannot be forgiven is the trite and illogical way the story is put forth, which confounds even my mighty brain to understand. Performing an experiment aboard the Von Doom orbital space station, Richards (Ioan Gruffudd) and his colleagues -- Benjamin Grimm (Michael Chiklis), Susan Storm (Jessica Alba, whose faux blonde hair cannot fool the eye of Doom), and Storm's brother Johnny (Chris Evans) -- are bombarded with cosmic radiation, granting them all manner of incredible powers. Doom, too, is subject to this process -- or at least the Doom played onscreen by Julian McMahon is. Once the five of them learn the extent of their abilities, they launch upon a cliché-heavy journey of exploration and conflict; Richards and his quartet scheme to restore themselves to "normality," while McMahon's Doom plots to destroy them and seize vast amounts of power for himself (an admirable policy unjustly maligned by this production).

From the onset, the script has little idea what to do with such towering figures. Story spends some amount of screen time portraying the Four as celebrities who must deal with a public who knows about (and is fascinated by) their powers. But the notion is poorly handled and awkward, depending largely on badly motivated impressions from the gawking crowds. Character interaction, too, is strung together with the feeblest justifications. The four "heroes" relate to each other as mindless automatons would: assigned to fill specific tasks with little reasoning or humanity. The actors can do naught with their material, save Chiklis who, Doom admits, achieves a certain sincerity in conveying his character's painful affliction (Grimm, unlike the others, cannot simply turn his powers on and off, and is thus trapped in the form of a rocky orange monstrosity). The other performers are trapped in overly simplistic roles that demand far too little of their talents. Evans is intended to be droll, but simply comes across as arrogant, Gruffudd seems feckless when he should be thoughtful, and though armed with the all-powerful Smart Chick Glasses, Alba is little more than a pretty face. I reserve special attention for McMahon, whose portrayal bears little resemblance to my own commanding majesty. And what manner of eyebrow is he affecting? Doom likes it not! Pluck it from his visage and inform me of what unholy fabric it is composed. It shall be banned from the shores of Latveria henceforth!

Though Doom expects graceful exposition and believable characters from all his movie pleasures, he can indulge occasional lapses if the action and special effects are above par. Here too, Story's effort fails to amuse me. Though some effects retain a certain kinetic grandeur, too many feel mannered and unduly artificial, while the perils and challenges they depict simply fail to excite. Feeble corporate efforts to tie the drama in with a marketable demographic, such as Johnny Storm's appearance at the X-Games, speak more to homogenized money managing than any effort to tell an enticing story. In every way and on every level, Fantastic Four falls short of Doom's expectations. I concede that it does not sink as far as some comic-book adaptations, such as the odious Catwoman or the incompetent Punisher, but that proves nothing. Figures as steeped in comic mythology as myself -- and even my hated nemeses, the Fantastic Four -- deserve far better than this ambulatory mess can provide.

Indeed, such a failure must not be permitted to reach the theaters. Doom demands that the perpetrators of Fantastic Four, along with all existing copies, be turned over to his minions for disposal as he sees fit. Defiance of my wishes would be most unwise, for there are myriad ways to bring you to your knees, O Hollywood fools. Already, I have arranged for a number of previously untouchable "celebrities" to be injected with a psychotropic drug, causing them to immolate their careers in brazen displays of public boobery. Witness their destruction and tremble, miscreants! Thus is the fate of all who do not cower before the might of Doom!

With apologies to Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.

Review published 07.07.2005.



http://www.flipsidemovies.com/fantasticfour.html
 
hunter rider said:
i like Herr and i respect him but in this instance telling a 16 yearold girl to "piss off herd animal" is much worse than any fanboy insult,i agree he gets pushed at times but I think he went to far on this one,
Herr if you read this and want to talk about it PM me as i think you can still do that even on probation

That's alot of bull***t and anyone with an ounce of brain matter can see there isn't such a gulf between those two insults as you're making them out to have.

First, the so-called "sixteen year old" should have had a complete description in her profile with her age fully disclosed. She/he didn't have one. You're expecting Herr to have been aware of this information as if he privately PMs with everyone on this thread. It's reasonable to expect if an individual is on this forum and has refused to disclose personal information - then one shouldn't be held accountable for not taking into consideration those undisclosed facts before engaging in a dialogue with that person.

Also, a 16-year old is as much a smart-ass as any adult. So, to imply any innocence to a 16-year old as you have when comparing those two insults is completely wrong. This individual deserved any comment made by Herr and probably much worse.

Herr was justified in what he said to this JulianM.fan and making comments which question Herr's ability to conduct himself in a reasonable manner smells as bad as this movie's depiction of Doom! Period.

Now as far as Doom:

The movie Doom is nothing more than a blend of recent villians such as the Green Goblin and the Kevin Bacon character from Hollowman. Like the Green Goblin, this Doom exhibits his current character only after suffering an accident. This Doom shares more similarities with the movie Goblin than he does with the comic Doom. How pathetic is that?

As with Doom, the Hollowman character was motivated in part by rejection and then directed his violence on the third member of the love triangle. Both characters go on a rampage.

Doom has been stripped of any real motivations resembling the original source. Doom is only one example of how these characters have been mishandled. Unfortunately, the damage done to Doom has major repercussions throughout this project.

Wetgorilla
 
I just had to bump this thread so people could read the "review" by Doom that sardukar posted. Genius!!!
 
Once again my post was deleted??!??

Ok Wetgorilla!

It doesn't matter whether i'm 16 or 26 years old. He shouldn't say to anyone piss off herd animal. I'm done with the matter and wish you and others would stop bringing it up. I apologized for saying what i said and will gladly accept Herr's if he gives one but i'm not counting on it.

I don't have to put my age in my profile! I don't know who's lurking around these boards so i shouldn't have had anything disclosed. It's my privacy.

Herr was not justified at all. Just think if someone had said that to you. Use your head. I had more self control then he did even when he had more to say. Cause trust me i had a few words to call him.

Now it really wasn't any of your business and we really should let it go now. The argument and the discussion about it is long gone.

DOOM ROCKS!
 
Hey, can somebody post the link to that essay about Doom and what makes him such a great villian? I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about. I'd like to have it on file, you know, to remind me what could have been.
 
Rex Calibur said:
ffmagazine08.jpg
Ow. My heart.


Just slap a hood on there and a gold chain between the buttons and...oh the joy that could have been.


You have any more like that, Lightning?
 
zanos said:
Hmm so calling someone a herd animal = a ban? Can anyone say, selective enforcement? That is assuming name calling is against the "rules" on here.

Sorry, but Herr Logan more than deserved his ban, he had a history of insulting people with all sorts of colorful metaphors. This was not a one time deal.
 
The movie Doom is nothing more than a blend of recent villians such as the Green Goblin and the Kevin Bacon character from Hollowman. Like the Green Goblin, this Doom exhibits his current character only after suffering an accident. This Doom shares more similarities with the movie Goblin than he does with the comic Doom. How pathetic is that?

That is a fair assesment, and that's what I think the films weakness is, although as I said, I liked this film and thought it was great fun.

The scenes with Victor and the Von Doom board members were straight out of the Oscorp scenes in Spider-man. Yeah they may have changed a line or two, but in essence they were the same scenes.

As I've said previously, Julian did a great job with his acting to give the character a distinctness from Norman Osbourne dispite the similarities in the script. But as Harrison Ford once said, "You can type this ****, but you can't say it."

The script writers and Story completely failed in that department. They're damn lucky they had an actor the calibur of McMahon to pull that off.

The biggest failure, comes from Arad, who should have seen the similarities, and nipped it in bud in the early draft stages.
 
Well, I saw it...

And Doom's as bad as I feared and more. But come on...is that really much of a revelation at this stage in the game?

No.

But anyways....

It's weird when he says (paraphrasing) "I've outsmarted the great Reed Richards" after turning Thing back into Grimm. Umm...can't you only outsmart somebody when they actually know you're actually competing against them? Up to that point in the movie, Reed doesn't even know Victor's out to get him, so how can he be outsmarted?

Plus...I felt sorry for Victor more than anything. He basically loses his empire, his girl leaves him like a cold ***** for the guy who's responsible for his affliction, his entire body is being transformed, and for God sakes, he's going crazy! You can't tell me that Vic wouldn't be sent to a psych ward instead of a jail cell. The character came off as more a pathetic psycho than a formidable villain.
 
Sardaukar said:
Well, I saw it...

And Doom's as bad as I feared and more. But come on...is that really much of a revelation at this stage in the game?

No.

But anyways....

It's weird when he says (paraphrasing) "I've outsmarted the great Reed Richards" after turning Thing back into Grimm. Umm...can't you only outsmart somebody when they actually know you're actually competing against them? Up to that point in the movie, Reed doesn't even know Victor's out to get him, so how can he be outsmarted?

Plus...I felt sorry for Victor more than anything. He basically loses his empire, his girl leaves him like a cold ***** for the guy who's responsible for his affliction, his entire body is being transformed, and for God sakes, he's going crazy! You can't tell me that Vic wouldn't be sent to a psych ward instead of a jail cell. The character came off as more a pathetic psycho than a formidable villain.
Entirely as expected.












:(
 
snazzy J said:
Hey, can somebody post the link to that essay about Doom and what makes him such a great villian? I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about. I'd like to have it on file, you know, to remind me what could have been.
Sardaukar, can you help me with this?
 
snazzy J said:
Sardaukar, can you help me with this?

I think I might know what you're talking about, but I'm not sure. I'll check it out...
 
Sardaukar said:
Plus...I felt sorry for Victor more than anything. He basically loses his empire, his girl leaves him like a cold ***** for the guy who's responsible for his affliction, his entire body is being transformed, and for God sakes, he's going crazy! You can't tell me that Vic wouldn't be sent to a psych ward instead of a jail cell. The character came off as more a pathetic psycho than a formidable villain.

I don't think Sue actually left him, because she was never with him to begin with. I mean, it seems they were never actually in a relationship.

However, I didn't really understand what the hell his point was when he told his head minion that the reason he wants Sue is because he could have any girl in the world. Uh, what does that mean?
 
Bishop2 said:
I don't think Sue actually left him, because she was never with him to begin with. I mean, it seems they were never actually in a relationship.

However, I didn't really understand what the hell his point was when he told his head minion that the reason he wants Sue is because he could have any girl in the world. Uh, what does that mean?
Yeah, they're relationship was really almost nonexistant. If you're gonna have a love triangle, at least try a little. It was so half-assed.

About Victor's line, he said "because I can have any other girl." I assume it was implying that she's the only one that's a challenge for him or something like that.
 
Personally, I was glad that there was never really a Sue/Victor relationship. Otherwise it would've seemed kinda skeevy for her to trade up to Reed so damn fast without ever looking back.
 

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