• The upgrade to XenForo 2.3.7 has now been completed. Please report any issues to our administrators.

I Am Doom....discuss me [merged-2]

Bishop2 said:
Personally, I was glad that there was never really a Sue/Victor relationship. Otherwise it would've seemed kinda skeevy for her to trade up to Reed so damn fast without ever looking back.
But there was a relationship. It was just incredibly underdeveloped. They're already being blasphemous, they could at least follow through with it. It makes you wonder why they even bothered committing their sacrilege in the first place.
 
Bishop2 said:
Personally, I was glad that there was never really a Sue/Victor relationship. Otherwise it would've seemed kinda skeevy for her to trade up to Reed so damn fast without ever looking back.

wtf. of course they were in a relationship. doom proposed to her in the beginning and reed was commenting on their relationship numerous times during the film. what movie did u watch. lol.
dr doom's iconic name has been reduced to a cliched 2 dimensional business pyscho by hollywood. shame shame shame.
that was not dr doom. more like some villian from a weekly episode of charmed to me.
 
that was not dr doom. more like some villian from a weekly episode of charmed to me.
why, if I'm not mistaken, he was villian from charmed.
 
nogster said:
wtf. of course they were in a relationship. doom proposed to her in the beginning and reed was commenting on their relationship numerous times during the film. what movie did u watch. lol.

"Reed, there is no 'me and Victor.' There never WAS." - Sue
 
SilentType said:
why, if I'm not mistaken, he was villian from charmed.


Screw Puppet Master....the pieces are in place for THE REAL DOOM in FF2.

Doom is an amazing character with a huge back-story, so it's understandable they had to change it to fit it all in with the FF origin.... I mean his mother, father, Latveria, mysticism, monks, etc etc etc.....too much (although seeing it over a 3 hour movie woudl have been cool).

Anyway, bottom line:
- He is back in Latveria
- he is pissed
- The explanation of his suit/powers are established.

While the FF are adjusting to stardom in NYC, he can now begin his overthrow of Latveria. The FF can see it on CNN, and the movie will deal with the reprecussions. (Or the movie could deal with the FF trying to stop him from annexing Latveria...however, they woudl need to fail). They could even explain the whole reason he was working in the USA and building a corporation was to acquire enough money and power to lead latveria...but fate dealt him a different kind of power and a new means to take control.

Either way, on-going after his origin, one of the coolest things about Doom is the fact he runs his own country and truely cares about it's people (in a dictator sort of way). It's oddly noble and things are in motion to establish that completely in FF2. I would love to see him walk into the UN and raise hell.
 
I like how he was never referred to as "Doctor" Doom. Just Doom. The Doctor part would not have made too much sense for the character.
 
Ratcrawler said:
I like how he was never referred to as "Doctor" Doom. Just Doom. The Doctor part would not have made too much sense for the character.

Viva Latveria! yeah, Excelsior!!!

The to superhero movies now is there are so many they MUST distinguish themselves to succeed.

no PuppetMaster.

Let Doom get his PhD and become Dr.Doom. Let him annex Latveria and lay waste to the corrupt government there now. Let him augment his armour with technology.....weapons, sensors, etc. Let the FF just try to stop him.

As a result, next movie we'll have celebrity superheroes representing the west vs. old school eastern bloc dictator. It can play out on CNN. across the globe.

That will be original in the world of comic book movies.
 
ta6816 said:
Let Doom get his PhD and become Dr.Doom.

He already has one. As he said to Reed: "We're both doctors, after all... "
 
I had fewer problems with Doom than I thought I was going to have. I know, I know, they made changes. But BATMAN BEGINS dropped Talia, The Lazarus Pits out of Ra's Al Ghul's character arc and made him Bruce Wayne's mentor and the reason Bruce becomes something terrifying, etc. To fit most characters into films, you have to make some changes most of the time. I figure I can swallow some changes to Doom, if the character still works. And it did.

For some reason a lot of people seem to hate the movie version of Doom, and though I am very familiar with the comic book version, I'm really not sure why. This is a movie. If you didn't realize going in that this was a MOVIE version of The Four and a movie version of Doom, then you're probably really disappointed. But honestly, what did some of you expect? To see Dr. Doom be the only villain in history who ISN'T changed for the film version? It's not like he was watered down. If anything, his character was stronger than it was when he first appeared in the comics.

Victor Von Doom is basically a bastard in FANTASTIC FOUR. He's just an *******, and it's fairly evident. But he's one of those people who succeeds despite being an ******* and probably a bad person, so you hate him even more right from the start, despite his attempts at charm and polish. He doesn't just turn evil, though, and I like that. There's a kind of gradual progression towards that, where his problems build and build and build, and his worries and stresses increase, and then, he realizes that he's mostly lost everything he ever had and ever wanted, and ties that into it being The Four's fault, and then he decides he wants revenge. That's really simplifying what we see onscreen, actually, as there are quite a few scenes of him developing into more the Doom we know, but nevertheless a pretty good villain arc for a film with four other major characters to develop, I thought. And then he becomes Doom. And while his dialogue is a little lousy in places (good in others), he's even more of a bastard. He starts burning holes through people and breaking necks. Not because he hates them or is just pure evil, but more because he can now, because it suits his ends. He puts on the mask (a good reason for a costume piece, actually, even if the rest isn't explained), and he does what any man who owned a ton of weapons and needed specialized ones would do. He goes and gets them. And then he tricks Ben into changing himself back, he uses his heat seaking missle on Johnny Storm, he freezes Reed (a little corny, but it worked when it happened to Plastic Man, and it's fairly sadistic), beats the crap out of the woman he once loved, and then he shows you why he's one of the most dangerous comic book villains in a physical way with the final battle.

A perfect villain? No. Everything Doom has ever been? No. But no, and I mean NO comic book character you will ever see can be everything they've always been in the comics in one film. Doom is no exception, and rather than just send him packing to clear the way for, say, Galactus (yeah. right.), they send him packing in a very cool coda that implies that we will see him in all his glory soon enough...the castle, Latveria, world domination aspirations, even more hatred of The Fantastic Four...and that felt good. I don't think they nailed it. But I think they presented a pretty darn good villain regardless.
 
The Guard said:
I had fewer problems with Doom than I thought I was going to have. I know, I know, they made changes. But BATMAN BEGINS dropped Talia, The Lazarus Pits out of Ra's Al Ghul's character arc and made him Bruce Wayne's mentor and the reason Bruce becomes something terrifying, etc. To fit most characters into films, you have to make some changes most of the time. I figure I can swallow some changes to Doom, if the character still works. And it did.

For some reason a lot of people seem to hate the movie version of Doom, and though I am very familiar with the comic book version, I'm really not sure why. This is a movie. If you didn't realize going in that this was a MOVIE version of The Four and a movie version of Doom, then you're probably really disappointed. But honestly, what did some of you expect? To see Dr. Doom be the only villain in history who ISN'T changed for the film version? It's not like he was watered down. If anything, his character was stronger than it was when he first appeared in the comics.

Victor Von Doom is basically a bastard in FANTASTIC FOUR. He's just an *******, and it's fairly evident. But he's one of those people who succeeds despite being an ******* and probably a bad person, so you hate him even more right from the start, despite his attempts at charm and polish. He doesn't just turn evil, though, and I like that. There's a kind of gradual progression towards that, where his problems build and build and build, and his worries and stresses increase, and then, he realizes that he's mostly lost everything he ever had and ever wanted, and ties that into it being The Four's fault, and then he decides he wants revenge. That's really simplifying what we see onscreen, actually, as there are quite a few scenes of him developing into more the Doom we know, but nevertheless a pretty good villain arc for a film with four other major characters to develop, I thought. And then he becomes Doom. And while his dialogue is a little lousy in places (good in others), he's even more of a bastard. He starts burning holes through people and breaking necks. Not because he hates them or is just pure evil, but more because he can now, because it suits his ends. He puts on the mask (a good reason for a costume piece, actually, even if the rest isn't explained), and he does what any man who owned a ton of weapons and needed specialized ones would do. He goes and gets them. And then he tricks Ben into changing himself back, he uses his heat seaking missle on Johnny Storm, he freezes Reed (a little corny, but it worked when it happened to Plastic Man, and it's fairly sadistic), beats the crap out of the woman he once loved, and then he shows you why he's one of the most dangerous comic book villains in a physical way with the final battle.

A perfect villain? No. Everything Doom has ever been? No. But no, and I mean NO comic book character you will ever see can be everything they've always been in the comics in one film. Doom is no exception, and rather than just send him packing to clear the way for, say, Galactus (yeah. right.), they send him packing in a very cool coda that implies that we will see him in all his glory soon enough...the castle, Latveria, world domination aspirations, even more hatred of The Fantastic Four...and that felt good. I don't think they nailed it. But I think they presented a pretty darn good villain regardless.

Great, great, and great post. Good read. :up:
 
The Guard said:
I had fewer problems with Doom than I thought I was going to have. I know, I know, they made changes. But BATMAN BEGINS dropped Talia, The Lazarus Pits out of Ra's Al Ghul's character arc and made him Bruce Wayne's mentor and the reason Bruce becomes something terrifying, etc. To fit most characters into films, you have to make some changes most of the time. I figure I can swallow some changes to Doom, if the character still works. And it did.

For some reason a lot of people seem to hate the movie version of Doom, and though I am very familiar with the comic book version, I'm really not sure why. This is a movie. If you didn't realize going in that this was a MOVIE version of The Four and a movie version of Doom, then you're probably really disappointed. But honestly, what did some of you expect? To see Dr. Doom be the only villain in history who ISN'T changed for the film version? It's not like he was watered down. If anything, his character was stronger than it was when he first appeared in the comics.

Victor Von Doom is basically a bastard in FANTASTIC FOUR. He's just an *******, and it's fairly evident. But he's one of those people who succeeds despite being an ******* and probably a bad person, so you hate him even more right from the start, despite his attempts at charm and polish. He doesn't just turn evil, though, and I like that. There's a kind of gradual progression towards that, where his problems build and build and build, and his worries and stresses increase, and then, he realizes that he's mostly lost everything he ever had and ever wanted, and ties that into it being The Four's fault, and then he decides he wants revenge. That's really simplifying what we see onscreen, actually, as there are quite a few scenes of him developing into more the Doom we know, but nevertheless a pretty good villain arc for a film with four other major characters to develop, I thought. And then he becomes Doom. And while his dialogue is a little lousy in places (good in others), he's even more of a bastard. He starts burning holes through people and breaking necks. Not because he hates them or is just pure evil, but more because he can now, because it suits his ends. He puts on the mask (a good reason for a costume piece, actually, even if the rest isn't explained), and he does what any man who owned a ton of weapons and needed specialized ones would do. He goes and gets them. And then he tricks Ben into changing himself back, he uses his heat seaking missle on Johnny Storm, he freezes Reed (a little corny, but it worked when it happened to Plastic Man, and it's fairly sadistic), beats the crap out of the woman he once loved, and then he shows you why he's one of the most dangerous comic book villains in a physical way with the final battle.

A perfect villain? No. Everything Doom has ever been? No. But no, and I mean NO comic book character you will ever see can be everything they've always been in the comics in one film. Doom is no exception, and rather than just send him packing to clear the way for, say, Galactus (yeah. right.), they send him packing in a very cool coda that implies that we will see him in all his glory soon enough...the castle, Latveria, world domination aspirations, even more hatred of The Fantastic Four...and that felt good. I don't think they nailed it. But I think they presented a pretty darn good villain regardless.
Disagree.
 
snazzy, I realize you probably have a valid reason for disagreeing, but just saying "disagree" doesn't tell me much. The point of the post was to begin a discussion. Care to partake?
 
Bishop2 said:
"Reed, there is no 'me and Victor.' There never WAS." - Sue

translation:"Reed, Victor and I were only having sex. We're not actually in love".

Anybody else think that's not too far from the truth?
 
Darthkush said:
translation:"Reed, Victor and I were only having sex. We're not actually in love".

Anybody else think that's not too far from the truth?

No. I think she was basically saying that she knew that Victor and her were never going to go anywhere and that she just felt she needed someone at the time and Victor was there for her.
 
Darthkush said:
translation:"Reed, Victor and I were only having sex. We're not actually in love".

Anybody else think that's not too far from the truth?


That's pretty much to be assumed. People in the modern world don't consider marriage without actually having a sexual relationship first. A supposedly egomanical bastard like Klytus/Doom definately wouldn't wait for marriage.
 
ta6816 said:
Screw Puppet Master....the pieces are in place for THE REAL DOOM in FF2.

Doom is an amazing character with a huge back-story, so it's understandable they had to change it to fit it all in with the FF origin.... I mean his mother, father, Latveria, mysticism, monks, etc etc etc.....too much (although seeing it over a 3 hour movie woudl have been cool).

Anyway, bottom line:
- He is back in Latveria
- he is pissed
- The explanation of his suit/powers are established.

While the FF are adjusting to stardom in NYC, he can now begin his overthrow of Latveria. The FF can see it on CNN, and the movie will deal with the reprecussions. (Or the movie could deal with the FF trying to stop him from annexing Latveria...however, they woudl need to fail). They could even explain the whole reason he was working in the USA and building a corporation was to acquire enough money and power to lead latveria...but fate dealt him a different kind of power and a new means to take control.

Either way, on-going after his origin, one of the coolest things about Doom is the fact he runs his own country and truely cares about it's people (in a dictator sort of way). It's oddly noble and things are in motion to establish that completely in FF2. I would love to see him walk into the UN and raise hell.

Sigh.

Let me repost one of my post. Since you are the perfect exemple of the kind of person that depress me.

And what will he do in the sequel ??? Get magically 10 times more intelligent ???

People, think. My god. Doom in the movie is NOT a brilliant scientist. He can NOT create doombots, an armor, or create weapons of mass destruction.

We are talking about a businessman. He hires people to get the job done.

Now, what made Latveria the most powerful country in the comic world ? Their scientists, their money, their ressources ?

**** no. Doom, and DOOM ONLY. He is the one who made it that powerful. He created robots. He made those weapons. HE.

Not people he hired. What will happen in the sequel ? He'll get the people of Latveria's respect by killing their kings with his new powers ? Wow. Then what ? He'll magically find out that in Latveria there are "brilliant scientists who can create robots" ???

And then he'll kidnap more scientists, and more brilliant people so he can used them ? Can we make robots ? Of course we can't. But Doom will find people who can. He'll hire people. Because that's the only thing he's good for.

How can he possibly ever be faithful ??? They made sure he never could be. They made him into an average man. They made him everything Doom wasn't. And you people think, because he's getting shipped to latveria, that he'll magically transform into Doom ???

My god, can't you people think ???

You are making me even more depress than I was. You are proving Arad was right. That he could completely change one of the greatest villain of all time, to a point of no return, and still get fans saying "he'll be ok, he'll be ok, he'll become the real Doom magically in a sequel if there ever is one".

People, Doom got ****ed. Open your eyes.



Oh, and just one last thing. There is NOTHING "noble" about this new Doom version. Nothing. Him transforming into a noble person would go against this atrocious new character. Story and co. made sure they never could.
 
^ Preach on!

It seems like these days people are willing to find justification for any change to the source material, all for the sake of...


...****, I don't really know why.

:rolleyes:
 
Sardaukar said:
^ Preach on!

It seems like these days people are willing to find justification for any change to the source material, all for the sake of...


...****, I don't really know why.

:rolleyes:

Why are they defending it ???

Why ? There's no REASON to defend that. None. ESPECIALLY if you are a fan of Doom.

How can any fan of Doom like that ? Worse, defend that ? That... thing has nothing to do with Doom, and yet they defend him. The horror.

Even Lightning, who's been one of the most positive person on those boards, see NO reason at all to defend Doom.
 
I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it.
 
Sardaukar said:
I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it.

The worst is having "Doom fans" trying to defend that. Imagine a catwoman fan defending CINO. That's what's happening here. Sad.
 
The Guard said:
snazzy, I realize you probably have a valid reason for disagreeing, but just saying "disagree" doesn't tell me much. The point of the post was to begin a discussion. Care to partake?
But single word posts are so fun. :(

Okay, I'm gonna try to make this short since I've wasted too much of my life talking about this. First off, you talk about how Victor was an ******* who tried to come off as charming. Basically a slimy *****ebag (eww, unpleasant visual). That's a major deviation from his character right there. Doom never put forward a facade of kindness or anything like that. He wouldn't bother wasting the effort to try and please people. He would never sink to the level of putting up false pretenses just to impress his inferiors.

Then you talk about how everything pushes Doom over the edge and he snaps. The thing is, Doom never snapped. He was always the way he is in the comics. His ego was always that huge. The accident just made him hate Reed and the rest of the world along with him, but it never drove him insane. The thing about Doom is that he's not really insane. Sure, the whole vanity thing with his reaction to the scar was pretty nutty, but it's not like he's too crazy to know what he's doing. The only things that make him borderline crazy are his vanity and his ego, and he had those long before that fateful day at ESU. He's too smart to be flat out crazy. And speaking of being smart...

There was nothing to show his intelligence, one of his key characteristics. He's supposed to be as smart as Reed, did you get that from the movie? He can say "MIT" and call himself a doctor all he wants, but there was nothing that actually showed off how smart he was. And don't say "He built that company" because that doesn't take intelligence. Donald Trump, anyone?

In addition to his intelligence, there was nothing to show his morality (specifically towards the people of Latveria), another one of his key attributes. He, like a lot of the best supervillians, is not without ethics. He doesn't just go around hurting people for fun, he only hurts people if it's necessary for him to reach his goals, which usually involve helping the people of Latveria. Sure, you could say that we didn't see this because Latveria wasn't in the movie, but then ask yourself: why wasn't Latveria in the movie? Doom and Latveria go hand in hand.

And, finally, the organic armor. While it might seem like this is a more minor disparity, like Spider-Man's webbing, it takes a lot from his character. In the comics, everyone get's powers but him. His archrival is flaunting it out there with his fancy stretching and Doom's got nothing. So what does he do? He doesn't sit around whining about it or waiting to stumble on his own superpowers somehow, he sits down and makes his own powers. How badass is that? He's so smart and his will is so strong that he's able to make his own armor that's powerful enough to make him a match for not one, but all of the Fantastic Four. What's more hardcore than building your own superpowers? Doom doesn't wait for stuff like that to fall in his lap, he makes it happen. If Doom wants to go forward with his potentially explosive experiments, Doom is gonna go forward with his potentially explosive experiments. If Doom wants to take over a country, Doom is gonna take over a country. And if Doom wants to have superpowers, Doom is gonna god damn well have superpowers. Even his sorcery, which is kind of like a superpower, took him years and years of study to develop. Through sheer willpower he has conquered gods. I saw none of that in the movie.

The only similarities I see between Victor in the movie and Doom from the comics, character-wise, is that they're both arrogant and they're both evil, but what villian isn't? Sure, we might end up seeing some of this stuff in a sequel, but how many movies does he have to be in before we see any of his defining attributes?







Wow, the "make this short" plan did not work out.
 
Well hey, I am a Doom fan but I'm not going to defend the choices that were obviously made by the monkeys in suits execs at Fox concerning his alterations. I think with Doom there was alot of wasted potential. If anything I would hope that perhaps a new director of a sequel will allow Julian McMahon to portray Doom in a more sinister, darker way as opposed to the seemingly standard cocky, power drunk villain Tim Story seemed to drag out of him. Maybe story-wise Doom's defeat in the movie could sober him somewhat and make him more sinisterly bitter.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
202,263
Messages
22,074,596
Members
45,875
Latest member
kedenlewis
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"