The Amazing Spider-Man I don't know what troubles me more...

[Tacit Ronin]

Back during the 80's Lucas was up like Nolan is now...there just wasnt an internet

Modern day Lucas is James Cameron not Nolan.

Except Cameron has more than one good movie under his belt.

 

[roach]

I agree with that

 

[weezerspider]

Modern day Lucas is James Cameron not Nolan.

Except Cameron has more than one good movie under his belt.

And every one of Nolan's films was on IMDB's list of greatest movies. I know thats not official, but it shows movie films in general really like Nolan. He was a pretty hot commodity before TDK in the non-comic world. My group of friends became pretty heavy Nolan fans after we say Memento. I actually prefer Memento and The Prestige over BB.

Cameron and Lucas are very similar. All Flash no substance. Lucas has great story ideas, but he's a terrible writer and director. The original trilogy is so much better because he only directed one of the films and he didn't have near the amount of control he had in the new ones. Cameron just sucks. I've never been a fan of his. T2 and T were pretty solid, but everything else I've seen of his bores me to tears.

EDIT: That said I don't quite get the Raimi bashing. The first two Spiderman films are easily some of the greatest this genre has seen. Spiderman 2, IMO, is the only comic film that can even stand next to TDK. Spiderman 3 was pretty bad, but there was alot of other factors then just Raimi. Also, no ones perfect. I've never understood turning on people for one bad film. Then again, I've never understood starting a hissy fit over wings not being on someone's head, so what do I know?

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Raimi is only hated here. He is being loved again after drag me to hell. Nice little flick.

Plus, if Raimi was so hated, why is everybody so upset that he is gone?

 

[roach]

Cameron and Lucas are very similar. All Flash no substance. Lucas has great story ideas, but he's a terrible writer and director. The original trilogy is so much better because he only directed one of the films and he didn't have near the amount of control he had in the new ones. Cameron just sucks. I've never been a fan of his. T2 and T were pretty solid, but everything else I've seen of his bores me to tears.

Actually I believe the only reason the Prequels arent liked is because they had a big legacy to live up to. George Lucas could have made three awesome movies but because Star Wars is held in such high regard they wouldnt live up to them. Some of the same mistakes people level towards the prequels are also true of the Originals.

EDIT: That said I don't quite get the Raimi bashing. The first two Spiderman films are easily some of the greatest this genre has seen. Spiderman 2, IMO, is the only comic film that can even stand next to TDK. Spiderman 3 was pretty bad, but there was alot of other factors then just Raimi. Also, no ones perfect. I've never understood turning on people for one bad film. Then again, I've never understood starting a hissy fit over wings not being on someone's head, so what do I know?

chalk it up to the fickle fanboy...who's tastes changes every summer. Give TDK a few years it will be as derided as Spider-man 2 is.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

BS. The prequels are garbage. Keep in mind I was too young to see the OT. I saw them later on vhs tape when i was 15. So no nostalgia here.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Modern day Lucas is James Cameron not Nolan.

Except Cameron has more than one good movie under his belt.

Don't forget about Lucas' American Graffiti.

And I liked Raimi after the first two, but I feel as though he started screwing up with 3. It was as much Raimi's fault as it was the studio. I just feel like Raimi could've made a much better story than what we've gotten.

Now Drag Me to Hell was a great "redemption" film for Raimi.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

It wasn't Raimi's fault at all. The Spidey 3 I picture in my head without Venom is on par with TDK.

SONY are just idiots who thought micro managing was gonna get them results.

 

[roach]

Spidey 3 is the reason why Raimi walked. I think he fought with Execs over Venom and lost and we all know how Spidey 3 turned out. Spidey 4 comes along here are the execs again are forcing Vultress on him...so he walked

 

[DDRSkata]

I love Raimi, but he screwed up the Spider-Man movies. All three of them. Granted, the first two were still good, and there was a lot less wrong with them than the third one, but he still messed up a lot of the characters. Those not blaming the third one on him, keep in mind that his brother co-wrote it with his guy that he brought on to do work on the first two (who is likely responsible for the things we didn't like about those; yes, he's the producer's husband, but Raimi also chose to bring him on). Raimi made a lot of choices that led the films in the direction of cheesy, and he took it too far on the third one. I honestly think that's why he and the studio couldn't see eye to eye on the fourth one. If you look at the progression of writers that worked on drafts under Raimi, their previous work gets cheesier and cheesier as you move down the list, until he got back to the dude who co-wrote the last one and the studio had enough.

I'm glad we're getting fresh blood on this. I hope the studio doesn't push too many bad ideas, because I'm sure they have plenty of those, but it should be interesting to see a new perspective on this.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Spidey 3 is the reason why Raimi walked. I think he fought with Execs over Venom and lost and we all know how Spidey 3 turned out. Spidey 4 comes along here are the execs again are forcing Vultress on him...so he walked

I thought Vultress was his idea in response to not putting Black Cat in the film.

It wasn't Raimi's fault at all. The Spidey 3 I picture in my head without Venom is on par with TDK.

SONY are just idiots who thought micro managing was gonna get them results.

But Venom didn't ruin the actual end product. Sandman's storyline did. As good as a Venom-less Spiderman 3 could be, it could be just as bad. No one knows what the original draft for Spiderman 3 is. Yes, it was wrong that Sony made Raimi put Venom in, but I didn't like that Raimi didn't go all the way with the Silver Age elements, and favored Silver Age villains too much.

I'm just going by what I saw, and what I saw was Venom (even though I didn't like Topher Grace the first time, I watch again and thought he was good and served his purpose in the film well) looking less like a "forced" character on film than Sandman.

Plus, Raimi ruined the script by putting in dance scenes along with other stupid and useless scenes in Spiderman 3. The studio didn't force him to do that.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Raimi can redeem himself by making another Evil Dead.

Hail To The King

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I'm glad we're getting fresh blood on this. I hope the studio doesn't push too many bad ideas, because I'm sure they have plenty of those, but it should be interesting to see a new perspective on this.

Isn't that old dude still writing the movie?

But Venom didn't ruin the actual end product. Sandman's storyline did.
I'm just going by what I saw, and what I saw was Venom (even though I didn't like Topher Grace the first time, I watch again and thought he was good and served his purpose in the film well) looking less like a "forced" character on film than Sandman.

Plus, Raimi ruined the script by putting in dance scenes along with other stupid and useless scenes in Spiderman 3. The studio didn't force him to do that.

What makes you think Sandman would've been the same if Venom wasn't there taking up space?

Raimi could've done a lot with the father daughter angle with more time. Infact, I think Sandman could've been better than Doc Ock!

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Isn't that old dude still writing the movie?

What makes you think Sandman would've been the same if Venom wasn't there taking up space?

Raimi could've done a lot with the father daughter angle with more time. Infact, I think Sandman could've been better than Doc Ock!

I know Sandman wouldn't be the same, but none of us actually know what was in the original script. Was Sandman still Uncle Ben's Killer? Does Harry still suffer amnesia? Is Mary Jane still an annoying b**ch? None of us know.

There were worse about Spiderman 3 than Venom, who was actually done well.

EDIT: Don't take it as me disliking Raimi. I like Raimi as a director. I just have my doubts that we would've gotten a good Spiderman film anyway, especially considering that some of the problems with Spiderman 3 have nothing to do with executive meddling.

 

[DDRSkata]

Isn't that old dude still writing the movie?

Unfortunately, he is doing a draft. I hope they bring Vanderbilt back to do a third draft, or at least get someone more suited for the material to work on it before they shoot.

 

[weezerspider]

chalk it up to the fickle fanboy...who's tastes changes every summer. Give TDK a few years it will be as derided as Spider-man 2 is.

1. there is a topic in the general comic book forum or general marvel forum, I don't remember which one, titled 'How does Spiderman 2 Hold up" and pretty much every response is about how awesome it is, so I don't get your last sentence. Last time I checked, everyone who loved Spiderman 2, still does.

2. The SW prequels are hated because they suck. Yes the originals do have a lot of the same problems(terrible dialogue, bad writing, questionable acting) but as a whole, the prequels are so much worse its not even funny. (or maybe it is?) That said, the GA , who are non fanboys, bash the SW prequels just as bad or worse than the fanboys.

 

[Frodo]

I know Sandman wouldn't be the same, but none of us actually know what was in the original script. Was Sandman still Uncle Ben's Killer? Does Harry still suffer amnesia? Is Mary Jane still an annoying b**ch? None of us know.

There were worse about Spiderman 3 than Venom, who was actually done well.

EDIT: Don't take it as me disliking Raimi. I like Raimi as a director. I just have my doubts that we would've gotten a good Spiderman film anyway, especially considering that some of the problems with Spiderman 3 have nothing to do with executive meddling.

True. From what I understand the original script still had a boatload of characters execept Venom's Part went to the Vulture. Vulture was suppose to be the villian who wanted vengence and Sandman was suppose to be the sympathetic villan who basically did what ever Vulture wanted.

Harry was originally suppose to be kinda in the middle though it's not clear that he was going to take up his father's mantle. MJ and Peter's relationship was always going to be threatened by another woman , but Laura Ziskin suggested they use Gwen. Avi Arad suggested they use Venom because he was far more popular then the Vulture. Raimi never liked the character but never the less took put him in and took Vulture out.

Now I personally feel that Raimi should have taken a chance and had Harry's Goblin as the sole villan and thrown out the Sandman, Venom, Gwne and vulture stuff. That way part 3 could focus on Peter, MJ, and Harry and instead of Gwen add Liz as a potential love interest for Harry. I think it would have made for a great emotional ending of the trilogy but Sony would never go for that so ...

 

[zeptron]

Now I personally feel that Raimi should have taken a chance and had Harry's Goblin as the sole villan and thrown out the Sandman, Venom, Gwne and vulture stuff. That way part 3 could focus on Peter, MJ, and Harry and instead of Gwen add Liz as a potential love interest for Harry. I think it would have made for a great emotional ending of the trilogy but Sony would never go for that so ...

I don't think that would have been a good idea as we had already just gotten a movie with a goblin as the sole villain. That would have been kind of repetitive don't you think?

Plus I believe Raimi always planned for Peter and Harry to teamup against another villain at the end.

 

[spider-neil]

It wasn't Raimi's fault at all. The Spidey 3 I picture in my head without Venom is on par with TDK.

SONY are just idiots who thought micro managing was gonna get them results.

as far as sony are concerned

900m = result

 

[Chris Wallace]

I don't think that would have been a good idea as we had already just gotten a movie with a goblin as the sole villain. That would have been kind of repetitive don't you think?

Plus I believe Raimi always planned for Peter and Harry to teamup against another villain at the end.

Harry's fall would have had to be followed by a redemption.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

as far as sony are concerned

900m = result

Would've made even more if it was a good movie.

 

[Chris Wallace]

In the eyes of many, you are only as good as your last work. In the eyes of the average fanboy, you are only as good as your last work unless something else comes along that they like even more than the previous work you did before they turned on you. Then they'll find even more reason to hate you.
@spider-neil; I've argued for a while that the irony of Spider-Man 3 is that Venom was simultaneously the movie's biggest draw and the ultimate cause of its downfall.

 

[Infinity9999x]

EDIT: That said I don't quite get the Raimi bashing. The first two Spiderman films are easily some of the greatest this genre has seen. Spiderman 2, IMO, is the only comic film that can even stand next to TDK. Spiderman 3 was pretty bad, but there was alot of other factors then just Raimi. Also, no ones perfect. I've never understood turning on people for one bad film. Then again, I've never understood starting a hissy fit over wings not being on someone's head, so what do I know?

This is how I've viewed it. I've enjoyed all of Raimi's films. I thought, as movies, they were good. SM2 was very, very good. However, as an adaptation of one of my favorite characters...it wasn't that great.

I didn't like the overuse of corny humor, the absence of Spider-man's personality, the complete and utter butchering of Mary Jane's character, turning Doc Ock into a "good guy" at heart, the under-use of the supporting cast, and the fact that Spider-man couldn't keep his friggin mask on.

It just wasn't my cup of tea. I think a better movie can be made that's truer to the character I know and love.

Now, that said, do I think Raimi sucks? Heck no. The guy did a lot of things pretty darn well. The train fight scene is still easily the best action sequence in a Superhero film to date. The sense of desperation and overwhelming pressure Pete felt from Spidey and life was perfect as well. But again, I've just never been a fan of how Raimi handled the characters.

Now, the funny thing is, five years ago when I said this I was torn apart, after SM3 there are tons of people who share my opinion. I do feel for the guy, because I was one of the few who thought SM3 wasn't nearly as bad as everyone made it out to be. I actually enjoyed it. But that was because I didn't like SM2 (I was actually quite disappointed in the theatre when I watched it). So when I went in to watch SM3, I didn't have high expectations. I knew it wouldn't have the things I wanted. So I just relaxed and spent a night at the cinema. And you know what? I enjoyed myself. Sure, it wasn't great, but it certainly wasn't a Batman and Robin, Ghost Rider, or even Fantasic Four.

 

[roach]

to be honest there are a few comic book movies that I believe people make out to be worst than they really are

 

[Chris Wallace]

Such as...?