The Dark Knight I guess joker just applies make-up after all

[Sidepocket]

You all have it wrong. The Joker is actually insane, you are just shallow at your attempts to analyze his psyche. Not to mention, you are taking the concept of Sane, Rules and Definitions for granted and as an absolute. Something that the Joker mocks constantly.

This is why Harvey Dent fits the Joker's puzzle so well. Because Dent's cause is what is missing:

"Laws and Rules Do Not Work!"

And of course Joker's is:

"The Only Sensible Way To Live In The World Is Without Rules!"

Not to mention:

Incapable of assessing concepts like right and wrong
Incapable of controlling your behavior
Unaware of the nature of your deviance

Not only have you described the Joker to the tee, but at a base level you also described the entire human race.

 

[CaptainClown]

You all have it wrong. The Joker is actually insane, you are just shallow at your attempts to analyze his psyche. Not to mention, you are taking the concept of Sane, Rules and Definitions for granted and as an absolute. Something that the Joker mocks constantly.

This is why Harvey Dent fits the Joker's puzzle so well. Because Dent's cause is what is missing:

"Laws and Rules Do Not Work!"

And of course Joker's is:

"The Only Sensible Way To Live In The World Is Without Rules!"

Not to mention:

Incapable of assessing concepts like right and wrong
Incapable of controlling your behavior
Unaware of the nature of your deviance

Not only have you described the Joker to the tee, but at a base level you also described the entire human race.

stupidest?

 

[Mister J]

Sidepocket, I'm really growing tired of seeing you toss around insults.

 

[The Battousai]

Sidepocket, I'm really growing tired of seeing you toss around insults.

You should throw your popcorn at him

 

[lixdexia]

it's you
just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them stupid.

 

[CaptainClown]

Well when you know whats better for them then they do. Also when they are just wrong then its ok

 

[lixdexia]

Well when you know whats better for them then they do. Also when they are just wrong then its ok

no CC, still no

 

[CaptainClown]

no CC, still no

well you are wrong that is why I have to correct you now. Everything I say is good for you. Now go paint that fence with this lead paint I have.

 

[Saint]

You all have it wrong. The Joker is actually insane, you are just shallow at your attempts to analyze his psyche. Not to mention, you are taking the concept of Sane, Rules and Definitions for granted and as an absolute. Something that the Joker mocks constantly.

This is why Harvey Dent fits the Joker's puzzle so well. Because Dent's cause is what is missing:

"Laws and Rules Do Not Work!"

And of course Joker's is:

"The Only Sensible Way To Live In The World Is Without Rules!"

Not to mention:

Incapable of assessing concepts like right and wrong
Incapable of controlling your behavior
Unaware of the nature of your deviance

Not only have you described the Joker to the tee, but at a base level you also described the entire human race.

Look out; Sidepocket is throwing a hissy-fit again! Don't use "big" words, they'll only intensify his rage!

 

[lixdexia]

well you are wrong that is why I have to correct you now. Everything I say is good for you. Now go paint that fence with this lead paint I have.

but i just ate the paint chips off the last one yesterday....

 

[Saint]

I do think that his primary motivation is a kind of narcisistic disorder- from the dapper clothes, to the moniker "clown prince", to the speech in the third person, to the proliferation of his own image, to the desire to murder anyone who offs Batman in his place; it all adds up.

I disagree--I think his motivation, as I've mentioned in the past, is a desire to expose what he perceives as inherent undercurrents of violence in ostensibly innocent, pure, or just things. I think some monumental trauma--like the death of his wife in TKJ, or something else, or a series of somethings--lead him to believe that everything that is good and pure is just a cover for evil. That's why he chose the clown and even why he dresses nicely. You could say he wants to expose this "truth" to everyone else, hence his actions, but equally possible is that he simply considers himself to be conforming to the nature to the universe--a wolf in sheep's clothing.

One could say the Joker had something bad happen to him and wanted to hurt people back, but that's not true, either. The trauma did not fill him with hate or with a need for revenge, it opened his eyes. The chemicals were probably the last straw--he came out of them, looked at himself, and it was perfect: the very nature of the universe expressed in his own face; violence and pain underneath an innocent exterior. From there, knowing the truth of the universe, he simply went with the flow. It's a joke, and he's the only one who gets it.

He still understands the difference between good and evil, but he believes evil to be natural while good is just an unnatural cover. Therefore, he's not insane by the legal definition, he simply has a fundamentally different perspective on good and evil.

 

[Nightwing1977]

You should throw your popcorn at him

 

[regwec]

I disagree--I think his motivation, as I've mentioned in the past, is a desire to expose what he perceives as inherent undercurrents of violence in ostensibly innocent, pure, or just things. I think some monumental trauma--like the death of his wife in TKJ, or something else, or a series of somethings--lead him to believe that everything that is good and pure is just a cover for evil.

That's an interesting perspective, and one I shall try to pass off as my own in the future.

But I think it is compatable with a deeply narcisistic personality. Your idea seems to sum up his "outlook" or philosophy nicely, but I would contend that the innate state of mind which leads to the man viewing himself as the prime mover in this morality play is a towering arrogance. I suppose that, if we accept Alan Moore's origin story (which he himself asked us not to accept), then you could summise that he felt himself cursed after his accident- how can any individual be the victim of so much? That could have made him feel oddly special in some way, leading to his sense of being some sort of incarnation of the tempter or the trickster; that he had been chosen for a kind of mission to expose the violent tragecomedy at the heart of the human condition.

 

[The Guard]

You all have it wrong. The Joker is actually insane, you are just shallow at your attempts to analyze his psyche.

How so?

Not to mention, you are taking the concept of Sane, Rules and Definitions for granted and as an absolute. Something that the Joker mocks constantly.

The Joker mocking something constantly doesn't mean it doesn't apply in context.

Not only have you described the Joker to the tee, but at a base level you also described the entire human race.

No.

Because The Joker CAN assess concepts like right and wrong, and so can most people. The Joker IS capable of controlling his behavior, and so are most people. And The Joker IS aware that he is considered both deviant and insane.

I disagree--I think his motivation, as I've mentioned in the past, is a desire to expose what he perceives as inherent undercurrents of violence in ostensibly innocent, pure, or just things. I think some monumental trauma--like the death of his wife in TKJ, or something else, or a series of somethings--lead him to believe that everything that is good and pure is just a cover for evil. That's why he chose the clown and even why he dresses nicely. You could say he wants to expose this "truth" to everyone else, hence his actions, but equally possible is that he simply considers himself to be conforming to the nature to the universe--a wolf in sheep's clothing.

One could say the Joker had something bad happen to him and wanted to hurt people back, but that's not true, either. The trauma did not fill him with hate or with a need for revenge, it opened his eyes. The chemicals were probably the last straw--he came out of them, looked at himself, and it was perfect: the very nature of the universe expressed in his own face; violence and pain underneath an innocent exterior. From there, knowing the truth of the universe, he simply went with the flow. It's a joke, and he's the only one who gets it.

He still understands the difference between good and evil, but he believes evil to be natural while good is just an unnatural cover. Therefore, he's not insane by the legal definition, he simply has a fundamentally different perspective on good and evil.

Exactly. That's exactly who he is, and how he's been written fits into this perfectly. You just described the Joker of BATMAN: THE MUSICAL, incidentally.

 

[bullets]

.

He still understands the difference between good and evil, but he believes evil to be natural while good is just an unnatural cover. Therefore, he's not insane by the legal definition, he simply has a fundamentally different perspective on good and evil.

I think that is the best assesment of his mentality.

 

[keano_10]

I'm not even gonna watch the movie.

if u r seriously gonna not c the movie simply because the joker may apply make up then u r abit pethetic and not a true fan 2 b honest. if u get so upset about a minor change from comic book 2 motion picture then u will never b happy with any batman film that is made

 

[Bat-Mite]

if u r seriously gonna not c the movie simply because the joker may apply make up then u r abit pethetic and not a true fan 2 b honest. if u get so upset about a minor change from comic book 2 motion picture then u will never b happy with any batman film that is made

It was settled months ago that the person you're replying to was just joking. Also, people tend to be taken more seriously on these boards if they take the time to use proper grammar and spelling (i.e., not consistently substituting "u" for "you").

 

[keano_10]

It was settled months ago that the person you're replying to was just joking. Also, people tend to be taken more seriously on these boards if they take the time to use proper grammar and spelling (i.e., not consistently substituting "u" for "you").

wanker

 

[Mr. Superhero]

wanker

Careful, mate. You've only just signed up and you're already gonna' end up getting yourself banned.

 

[keano_10]

ok, i apologise

 

[ronny]

When The Joker does his cross dressing experiment (Which I assume is not a joke, although I'm still not sure) will it be genuine? Is he really dressing up like a woman as a disguise or because he finds it amusing to don the nurse garb?
What do you reckon?

 

[Franky4Fingers]

When The Joker does his cross dressing experiment (Which I assume is not a joke, although I'm still not sure) will it be genuine? Is he really dressing up like a woman as a disguise or because he finds it amusing to don the nurse garb?
What do you reckon?

Probably both.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Its going to be a great scene to watch if I do say so myself.

 

[Symbiotic]

Its going to be a great scene to watch if I do say so myself.

There's the 'disturbing images' of the PG-13 right there.

 

[Mister J]

You should throw your popcorn at him

I threw probation at him. It was heavier.

When The Joker does his cross dressing experiment (Which I assume is not a joke, although I'm still not sure) will it be genuine? Is he really dressing up like a woman as a disguise or because he finds it amusing to don the nurse garb?
What do you reckon?

Disguise will probably be the most weighted rationale, but the outrageous factor in selecting that particular garb is something I like to see played out as well.