IDW Transformers Thread

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, that doesn't matter. There's already another Silverbolt around and Megatron isn't the G1 Megatron. They're probably just chahracters who named themselves after the G1 characters. Only Grimlock, Ravage, and Starscream are in canon as being the actual G1 characters of those names.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Oh, that doesn't matter. There's already another Silverbolt around and Megatron isn't the G1 Megatron. They're probably just chahracters who named themselves after the G1 characters. Only Grimlock, Ravage, and Starscream are in canon as being the actual G1 characters of those names.

Are you really suggesting that the IDW Beast Wars comic's arent canon?????Or IDW's Beast Wars source book is not canon???????Or that the individual toy specs that were posted as Hasbro's offical website [because none were printed on the box's] soon after the figures were released isint canon?????Or that the Botcon exclusive comic's that are from the Hasbro's offical fan club are not canon????????

I'll admit that I dont have all the proff to post here anymore but that doest change the facts....if you want you can look them up your self.

By the way there was an other Prown in Beast Wars....he was a transmetal Owl.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Um. Yeah? The American show's canon and the IDW stuff Furman is writing right now are all that count as canon to me, so unless Furman tells me that the Magnaboss characters are their G1 counterparts, they're just some more Maximals who took names honoring the G1 Autobots to me.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Um. Yeah? The American show's canon and the IDW stuff Furman is writing right now are all that count as canon to me, so unless Furman tells me that the Magnaboss characters are their G1 counterparts, they're just some more Maximals who took names honoring the G1 Autobots to me.

Thats what I'm saying!!!!!!!!In Furman's IDW'sBeast Wars comic and the IDW's Beast Wars source book also written by Furman state that their G1 characters.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Oh, well that's lame. I wasn't all that happy about Grimlock being the G1 character. Ravage and Starscream should've been it--otherwise, the fact that they're supposedly centuries removed from the G1 era starts meaning less and less. They're not really the Autobots and Decepticons' descendants if half of the Autobots and Decepticons from the Great War are still around in their time. Not to mention the fact that it makes the Great War seem less legendary, too. Wars only grow to legendary status when you've got generations of people who weren't there building it up; that doesn't work as well if you can just turn around and find three or four survivors of the Great War still hanging around in perfect health. "The Great War? Oh yeah, that was a cakewalk. I'm still here, ain't I?"

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Oh, well that's lame. I wasn't all that happy about Grimlock being the G1 character. Ravage and Starscream should've been it--otherwise, the fact that they're supposedly centuries removed from the G1 era starts meaning less and less. They're not really the Autobots and Decepticons' descendants if half of the Autobots and Decepticons from the Great War are still around in their time. Not to mention the fact that it makes the Great War seem less legendary, too. Wars only grow to legendary status when you've got generations of people who weren't there building it up; that doesn't work as well if you can just turn around and find three or four survivors of the Great War still hanging around in perfect health. "The Great War? Oh yeah, that was a cakewalk. I'm still here, ain't I?"

It doent bother me to that extent being that I grew up knowing a good number of people that suvived WW 2 and one of my neighboors was on the Titanic.What bothers me more is that the fact that Ironhide and Prowl are alive AGAIN meens that Starscreams spark isint all that Special after all....weakening his status as a uniqe character.Remember both Ironhide and Prown died in the 86 movie and BW's is soposed to be tied at least in part to that continuity.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, that's another thing. All of the Maximals and Preds make such a big deal about Starscream's indestructible spark, but apparently all kinds of sparks are indestructible, or at least able to survive centuries. Also, it takes away the whole evolution aspect of BW. The Autobots and Decepticons were said to evolve into the Maximals and Predacons, respectively, but it turns out that that's not the case--loads of Autobots and Decepticons were just rebuilt as Maxies and Preds, it seems.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Yeah, that's another thing. All of the Maximals and Preds make such a big deal about Starscream's indestructible spark, but apparently all kinds of sparks are indestructible, or at least able to survive centuries. Also, it takes away the whole evolution aspect of BW. The Autobots and Decepticons were said to evolve into the Maximals and Predacons, respectively, but it turns out that that's not the case--loads of Autobots and Decepticons were just rebuilt as Maxies and Preds, it seems.

Thats because they used the word "Evolove" and "Indestructible" to losly.Its more likly that the Autobots and Decepticons as a race upgraded and downsized them selfs as aposed to any real sence of evolution.And it also appears that Beast Wars borrowed from the Marvel comics that a Transformer can be brought back from the dead quite eazly.If you remember TF's were dieing and coming back all the time in the Marvel comics so I guess the true deffenision of a "Indestructible spark" is a spark that is removed from the body not returning to the All Spark.
Well thats at least the only senceable explaination I could come up with.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, but I don't like that. The Autobots should have no concept of death if they can all just be rebuilt and upgraded without ever being gone for good. I liked it much more when the G1 TFs were the ancestors of the Maximals and Preds, and they had all died off except for Ravage and Starscream. That gave Ravage and Starscream a real "oh **** " factor, too.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Yeah, but I don't like that. The Autobots should have no concept of death if they can all just be rebuilt and upgraded without ever being gone for good. I liked it much more when the G1 TFs were the ancestors of the Maximals and Preds, and they had all died off except for Ravage and Starscream. That gave Ravage and Starscream a real "oh **** " factor, too.

Thats an other aspect taken from the Marvel G2 comic.....one of the TF makes the statement that they have no true consept of death while he's talking to a member of G.I.Joe.

I dont really mind that there were a few more survivor's then just 2 but if you look into the other Furman comics, for exsample the one's he did fpr Botcon [witch is canon by the way] Razorclaw and Divebomb of the original Preadacons are still alive, Buzzsaw and Lazorbeak are still alive, Arcee and HotRod are still alive [as a matter of fact Arcee is Ratreap's aunt] Skywarp is still alive, There was a bounty hunter from the G1 toon [cant remember his name now] thars still alive.........thats way to many.

Thats why I have a love hate relationship with Furmans TF stories.....he writes more like a fanboy, adding things and subtracting things that he doesnt like, and bringing characters back from the dead.

 

[El Bastardo]

What I was suggesting that you put yourself in their shoes........place your self over 10 years ago, and watch their Beast Wars shows with out ever seeing or knowing about ours.......with out any sound while have a sumery bible of the show that tells you that there the same characters, and your from a place that upgrading old characters isnt unheard of, and your from a place that the G1 story had only ended the year before, and to make thinks more complecated theres nothing in the first 3 episides to contradic the bible on the show you've been givven.What would you have belieaved then?????????/
As for Megatrons face in our Beast Wars.......the toy design did have a simular face.

Yes, which is why I said the Japanese were operating under the wrong assumptions and their television product is inferior to the Beast Wars three seasons that were shown on American and Canadian shores.

And now that we have come full circle, along with the other mini-discussions that have been had, Corp and I can probably agree on a new truth: the more one tries to integrate the Japanese show and characters into the American show and characters, the crappier and crappier everything gets.

See the Beast Wars comics.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Yes, which is why I said the Japanese were operating under the wrong assumptions and their television product is inferior to the Beast Wars three seasons that were shown on American and Canadian shores.

And now that we have come full circle, along with the other mini-discussions that have been had, Corp and I can probably agree on a new truth: the more one tries to integrate the Japanese show and characters into the American show and characters, the crappier and crappier everything gets.

See the Beast Wars comics.

I can agree with most of that too.......exsept the "wrong assumptions" part, its not an "assumption" to believe what you've been told by an offical source.......lets consider it that they were working with wrong factst:

 

[El Bastardo]

I can agree with most of that too.......exsept the "wrong assumptions" part, its not an "assumption" to believe what you've been told by an offical source.......lets consider it that they were working with wrong factst:

Except it wasn't a fact, since time has disproved it.

Hasbro "official sources" were assuming the American Beast Wars would be developed under their original intentions, and it wasn't.

Thus, decidedly not a fact.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Except it wasn't a fact, since time has disproved it.

Hasbro "official sources" were assuming the American Beast Wars would be developed under their original intentions, and it wasn't.

Thus, decidedly not a fact.

Actually Hasbro had already made the changes to our Beast Wars by the time we sent it over to Japan.What happened was that someone at Hasbro sent the wrong shows Bible to them when they sent the finished 2 part opener.So wether or not Hasbro intended that they would have ,as you put it "developed under their original intentions" Hasbro's mistake made it imposible for Japan to do so.

And that is a fact.And so as I said before they were working with the wrong facts givven to them by Hasbro.....what time has proven about the show and its characters is irrelevant to the issue because unlike some of the other shows Takara had no say of input on how the show was made or how its characters were developed or their relationship to their G1 counterparts.

 

[El Bastardo]

Uh huh. Whatever you say.

I'd actually attempt to unravel some of that stuff in the first paragraph, but I just can't be bothered right now.

Actually, no, I will. Somewhat.

There are no "facts" about something that is ongoing or being planned. Hasbro could not have facts about what Beast Wars would be or would someday be because it was not yet such. Facts are discovered and proven. Something that has not been cannot be discovered or proven.

Hasbro could have ideas of what they wanted Beast Wars to be. They could project what they wanted. They could have assumptions of what would happen. They could not have facts of what would happen - or, at the very least, if they could have, then what they said would happen would have happened. It did not.

We have already established that what Hasbro or whoever was speaking for Hasbro told the Japanese creators was FUBAR'd and wrong. It doesn't need to be constantly repeated. Regardless, what they told the creators wes not fact / were not facts. Because it had not happened or been proven.

The writers and Beast Wars Americana went somewhere different than what Hasbro originally or secondly or tertiarily or ninthly suspected or pictured or assumed or projected it would go. THAT is the fact. And the facts of Beast Wars, the canon of Beast Wars (American), is that Primal was not Prime, that Megatron was not Megatron, that they were on prehistoric Earth sometime after the crashing of the Ark and the Nemesis, etc.

Thus endeth the lesson.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Thats an other aspect taken from the Marvel G2 comic.....one of the TF makes the statement that they have no true consept of death while he's talking to a member of G.I.Joe.

I dont really mind that there were a few more survivor's then just 2 but if you look into the other Furman comics, for exsample the one's he did fpr Botcon [witch is canon by the way] Razorclaw and Divebomb of the original Preadacons are still alive, Buzzsaw and Lazorbeak are still alive, Arcee and HotRod are still alive [as a matter of fact Arcee is Ratreap's aunt] Skywarp is still alive, There was a bounty hunter from the G1 toon [cant remember his name now] thars still alive.........thats way to many.

Thats why I have a love hate relationship with Furmans TF stories.....he writes more like a fanboy, adding things and subtracting things that he doesnt like, and bringing characters back from the dead.

That really is too many. The only way I'd be interested in seeing a story where the G1 TFs are around in such quantities by the BW era is if it's dealing with where the **** all these undying TFs are going to relocate to, since they'd be facing some overpopulation issues if they're trying to stick to just one planet.

 

[El Bastardo]

That really is too many. The only way I'd be interested in seeing a story where the G1 TFs are around in such quantities by the BW era is if it's dealing with where the **** all these undying TFs are going to relocate to, since they'd be facing some overpopulation issues if they're trying to stick to just one planet.

A "Transformers: Imperialism for Breeding" mini?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Nah, it'd suck. Never mind, I never want to see that many G1 TFs still around in the BW era. Starscream and Ravage were perfect. Grimlock annoys me, and every G1 TF after Grimlock just sucks more and more because it reduces the impact of Starscream and Ravage's perfection.

 

[El Bastardo]

Well, it does at least make a little bit of sense.

I mean, the big hype of Ravage in Season 2 was the idea that he was, like, the ONLY Decepticon given amnesty after the Great War, and reformatted into a Predacon to be used as the secret agent he was. And it was, of course, perfect for the end of the season and those episodes.

And Starscream and his immortal spark is freakin' terrifying, and a huge part of the reason why Rampage was, in turn, so terrifying.

I truly believe that the only reason Grimlock is on the scene is because Furman has a huge hard-on for him... which usually isn't a huge problem, but yes, I agree with you. I wonder how long before we see him in the reinvented G1. By the end of Devastation, you think? We know he's on Earth.

It makes sense that some G1 Transformers could still be around, but yeah, it should be rare. And well-explained. I mean, it should have a reason for being such. And, truthfully, I think that if it were just Beast Wars Americana, it wouldn't be needed or have been done, really. More or less.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Uh huh. Whatever you say.

I'd actually attempt to unravel some of that stuff in the first paragraph, but I just can't be bothered right now.

Actually, no, I will. Somewhat.

There are no "facts" about something that is ongoing or being planned. Hasbro could not have facts about what Beast Wars would be or would someday be because it was not yet such. Facts are discovered and proven. Something that has not been cannot be discovered or proven.

Hasbro could have ideas of what they wanted Beast Wars to be. They could project what they wanted. They could have assumptions of what would happen. They could not have facts of what would happen - or, at the very least, if they could have, then what they said would happen would have happened. It did not.

We have already established that what Hasbro or whoever was speaking for Hasbro told the Japanese creators was FUBAR'd and wrong. It doesn't need to be constantly repeated. Regardless, what they told the creators wes not fact / were not facts. Because it had not happened or been proven.

The writers and Beast Wars Americana went somewhere different than what Hasbro originally or secondly or tertiarily or ninthly suspected or pictured or assumed or projected it would go. THAT is the fact. And the facts of Beast Wars, the canon of Beast Wars (American), is that Primal was not Prime, that Megatron was not Megatron, that they were on prehistoric Earth sometime after the crashing of the Ark and the Nemesis, etc.

Thus endeth the lesson.

What is fact is that Beast Wars started airing on for us in september of 1996.And givin the amount of time that a show gos from the bible stage and the finished pilot we can safly assume that by that point the decision to make Primal a desendent of G1 Prime had already been made.So theres no ongoing issues about that.

What is also Fact is that Japan started airing arring our Beast Wars in the summer of 1997.Thats almost a year after us.Thats makes it all most a year and a half after we can safly assume just when the choice was made to change just who the characters were.

So you can attact anything you want to but the fact of just when the shows were aired in Japan proves that Hasbro had already made their changes to Primal long before the Japanese got their hand on the show.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

That really is too many. The only way I'd be interested in seeing a story where the G1 TFs are around in such quantities by the BW era is if it's dealing with where the **** all these undying TFs are going to relocate to, since they'd be facing some overpopulation issues if they're trying to stick to just one planet.

Interesting.

 

[El Bastardo]

What is fact is that Beast Wars started airing on for us in september of 1996.And givin the amount of time that a show gos from the bible stage and the finished pilot we can safly assume that by that point the decision to make Primal a desendent of G1 Prime had already been made.So theres no ongoing issues about that.

What is also Fact is that Japan started airing arring our Beast Wars in the summer of 1997.Thats almost a year after us.Thats makes it all most a year and a half after we can safly assume just when the choice was made to change just who the characters were.

So you can attact anything you want to but the fact of just when the shows were aired in Japan proves that Hasbro had already made their changes to Primal long before the Japanese got their hand on the show.

Yeah, right. Head, over, all that. Ta.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Well, it does at least make a little bit of sense.

I mean, the big hype of Ravage in Season 2 was the idea that he was, like, the ONLY Decepticon given amnesty after the Great War, and reformatted into a Predacon to be used as the secret agent he was. And it was, of course, perfect for the end of the season and those episodes.

And Starscream and his immortal spark is freakin' terrifying, and a huge part of the reason why Rampage was, in turn, so terrifying.

I truly believe that the only reason Grimlock is on the scene is because Furman has a huge hard-on for him... which usually isn't a huge problem, but yes, I agree with you. I wonder how long before we see him in the reinvented G1. By the end of Devastation, you think? We know he's on Earth.

It makes sense that some G1 Transformers could still be around, but yeah, it should be rare. And well-explained. I mean, it should have a reason for being such. And, truthfully, I think that if it were just Beast Wars Americana, it wouldn't be needed or have been done, really. More or less.

I agree but its really Furmans fault that so many G1 characters are still alive....the Japanese characters of Grimlock and the others all go by different names and are different characters.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Yeah, right. Head, over, all that. Ta.

Tell me whats you problem with the facts.....or is it that there coming from me that bugg's you??????????/

 

[El Bastardo]

I agree but its really Furmans fault that so many G1 characters are still alive....the Japanese characters of Grimlock and the others all go by different names and are different characters.

And we feel the need to place blame somewhere?

Again, let's note that I didn't place any blame, really.

But if we want to, then by all means, yes, it's Furman's fault. He decided to bring in the Japanese characters and try to tie the mythos of both series together. And in doing so, he tried to convert some names that the American audiences would know and be familiar with.

Not the best moves, but then, more weight on the side of not converging the series and just forgetting that the Japanese Beast Wars even exist.