Justice League If Snyder is completely gone, who carries the torch going forward?

[FunkMiller]

I don't understand how this happened. BvS OK, I get it, but how did they give him JL, - that I'll never understand.

I can't even come up with any scenario where they'd be afraid of firing Snyder. He doesn't strike me as someone who would have any dirt on other people like what Singer must have on others

Maybe it was literally because nobody else wanted to do it.

 

[Boom]

I don't understand how this happened. BvS OK, I get it, but how did they give him JL, - that I'll never understand.

I can't even come up with any scenario where they'd be afraid of firing Snyder. He doesn't strike me as someone who would have any dirt on other people like what Singer must have on others

I honestly don't think I've ever seen a studio give one director so much rope, despite a string of box office and critical disappointments.

Watchman (divisive, underperformed)
Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole (divisive, underperformed)
Sucker Punch (panned, bombed)
Man of Steel (divisive, underperformed)
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (panned, underperformed)

And they STILL kept him on to direct what was supposed to be their biggest tentpole of the year.

 

[harlequinade]

Maybe it was literally because nobody else wanted to do it.

When big money is involved someone always wants to do it

 

[MbJ]

Hubris and money. They were too far along to make significant changes (the movie began shooting only a few weeks after BVS, which means all sorts of expensive preproduction had been done beforehand and they had a release date staked out) and delaying the movie would have made it looked like they were in panic mode.

I mean, clearly they were in panic mode, they just didn't want to seem like it.

 

[kingcharmingman]

I was batman fans and very excited to watch bvs,
But i remember yawned about 2 to 3 times watching bvs...

Mos was a good movie, it has deep conflict.
It needed a grand sequel to get general audience hooked with this new superman, but instead some years later when general audience loose their memory of mos, they were given heavy theme bvs.

Why that long to build a universe? It has lost momentum.

Then they shot JL, but they didnt expect ww to be successful and liked by critics and general audience (yes, highlight on general audience, not bvs die hard fans).

Ww created momentum again (now i'm ww fans), but JL already shot as continuance of bvs theme, there they did some adjustments and reshoots and cuts,
The result, even tho JL was suffering from critics, general audience seems to like it so there's still hope.

I think general plot and storyline still needed but (with all respect to snyder) dont take snyder's direction anymore. Build standalone movies, those who can create momentum, use them to build universe.

Currently we got wonder woman and new superman minus mustache, this two can be used to build universe in the long run.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Mos was a good movie, it has deep conflict.
It needed a grand sequel to get general audience hooked with this new superman, but instead some years later when general audience loose their memory of mos, they were given heavy theme bvs.

Why that long to build a universe? It has lost momentum.

Yeah. MOS had some issues and was divisive, but I think that if they would have made a sequel (not a team-up/JL prelude/whatever BvS was supposed to be) and did more to make Superman into the hopeful symbol people want him to be, this universe would be turning out much better. All I have to do is look at how bad Thor: The Dark World is and how great Thor: Ragnarok is to know that a good sequel can get a franchise back on track.

Now, BvS could have been that movie (even with a character like Batman) but minimizing Superman's actual role and having most of the dialogue in the movie be about how much of a threat he is and how much people hate him just made the film feel needlessly dour. This isn't Watchmen. I feel like BvS killed the momentum for JL, and that's why you're seeing lackluster box office results. Regardless of how much of the movie was messed with, I really don't think that many people were excited about JL to begin with. I think, after BvS, everyone knew what to expect and a lot of them stayed home because of that.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I honestly don't think I've ever seen a studio give one director so much rope, despite a string of box office and critical disappointments.

Watchman (divisive, underperformed)
Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole (divisive, underperformed)
Sucker Punch (panned, bombed)
Man of Steel (divisive, underperformed)
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (panned, underperformed)

And they STILL kept him on to direct what was supposed to be their biggest tentpole of the year.

Imagine if Zack Snyder was Zoey Snyder, or Jamal Snyder, do you think he would've gotten so many chances?

 

[Poppy]

Nobody.

Geoff Johns can be there to provide some input and to keep these projects on track, but otherwise I am all for filmmakers being given the keys to their respective franchises and letting them do their own things. Then after a couple of years, if audiences are showing renewed interest in the DCEU, bring in a filmmaker with a proven track record with ensemble films to helm a new Justice League movie. Furthermore, it will be the responsibility of the JL director/screenwriter to tie the solo films together, instead of forcing the directors/screenwriters of the solo films to set up a JL film.

That's a good plan.

I just hope the new directors are going to know a lot about the comic history of the characters they're going to adapt.

Snyder did most of the characters right, but it's still disappointing to see Barry acting like Wally.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I feel that people miss the point when talking about director driven. WB cutting and trimming Snyder's obscenely long films doesn't mean they are not director driven.

Imagine if Snyder went to Marvel and said that he wants Captain America to be a jerk and say stuff like, no one stays good in this world, the talks would break down like instantly. Because Marvel is producer driven and they've set the vision for Cap.

In WB, Snyder can go up to them and say that he wants a mopey superman who hates being a hero and a psychotic Batman who brands people with his insignia, and they will say, sure, fine. That is creative control. They may downgrade Rated R to pg13. They may trim his extremely self indulgent and long films, but Snyder still sets the vision at WB.

A producer driven WB would've never tolerated tortureman, super mope and dead Olsen. Not a smart one, at least.

 

[FunkMiller]

Imagine if Zack Snyder was Zoey Snyder, or Jamal Snyder, do you think he would've gotten so many chances?

Of course not. I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that Hollywood is pretty damn rotten when it comes to who and who doesn't get the advantages.

 

[GreenKToo]

Honestly, I don't think it matters. Even if they got some supertalented A list director, he would probably leave over studio interference. The problem is WB.

 

[SpideyZERO]

Didn't Snyder's wife produce MOS onwards too? Might explain why Snyder still onboard after BvS. Some significant influence going on

 

[The Batman]

Imagine if Zack Snyder was Zoey Snyder, or Jamal Snyder, do you think he would've gotten so many chances?

If Zoey and Jamal made something like Sucker Punch, they'd end up being limited to directing commercials, and would be lucky if they got to direct TV episodes every once in a while.

 

[Jekecy]

Didn't Snyder's wife produce MOS onwards too? Might explain why Snyder still onboard after BvS. Some significant influence going on

Deborah is a DCEU producer because of Zack, not the other way around. She has no real power in WB outside his career path.

 

[OdinSon]

When all is said and done, with the amount of re-shoots and additional photography that was done, I have to believe that they've ended up spending more money on this film than they would have had they just delayed it from the start. They reap what they sow. It's a shame that fans will likely suffer for it too, but Warner Brothers has to learn that this was the worst possible way to go about making a movie. I'm very curious who falls on their sword over it.

They not only spent more but they also lost hundreds of millions of dollars that they would have made with a well received JL movie.

Right after BVS was released, one day I was watching Collider movie talk. Dennis Tzeng on the show said Warner Bros are moving ahead with JL as planned with Snyder at helm. I remember leaving a comment on Youtube saying something like if Dennis truly believes that Warnber Bros will keep Snyder after BVS then he is out of touch with reality. I thought surely Warner Bros couldn't be that stupid. Turns out Dennis was right and it was I who was out of touch with reality.

 

[Vaibow]

I have been saying what needs to happen is make a great solo superman movie, set months after MOS. The world is unsure, but this movie makes the world 75% in favour of him and it's only really the governments agenda against him - in BvS Supes was a generally liked character, it was only Bruce who had major beef, as well as lex, but for the wrong reasons - or maybe the right reasons, see, i feel that the beef 'lex' had with superman was daddy issues (he bought him up a few times) and what if Supes had put his Daddy away, before lex could get his own revenge?
So we have a realistic world, with reactions to superman - clark finding his way, doing the best he can to do right - lex snr is having none of it and creates political conflict - expand on that, you have great, fun MOS2

 

[Pink Ranger]

Get a director who doesn't have a distinctive style to pimp out, who will just respect the basics of storytelling and put together a good movie. No more Tim Burtons, no more Zack Snyders (disclosure: I actually liked MOS and Watchmen).

 

[Silvermoth]

You know who might be fun? Robert Rodriguez. What's he up to today?

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Get a director who doesn't have a distinctive style to pimp out, who will just respect the basics of storytelling and put together a good movie. No more Tim Burtons, no more Zack Snyders (disclosure: I actually liked MOS and Watchmen).

Why the dichotomy? Some directors can do both, like Nolan and Raimi.

 

[Reel-Man]

Who carries the torch going forward? WB of course

 

[MbJ]

Why the dichotomy? Some directors can do both, like Nolan and Raimi.

It depends. They've done franchise movies before, but I don't think either of them would work in a shared universe setting. Raimi famously put up with a lot of crap he hated on Spider-Man 3 (rushed production time to hit a scheduled release date, the inclusion of Venom even though the movie already had two villains and Raimi doesn't like Venom, MJ having to be a damsel AGAIN even after he promised Kirsten Dunst her character wouldn't be kidnapped and held hostage for a third time), and it partially led to his decision to not direct Spider-Man 4 when it became clear he was gonna have to deal with the same kinds of time and executive constraints.

Nolan's Batman films are also a franchise, but not something that I'd see working as part of an MCU or DCEU style series. They are almost antithetical to what a shared universe usually strives for. They have a streamlined cast (no Robins, Nightwings, Batgirls or Batwomen), no other superheroes seem to exist in this world, and there's a set beginning, middle and end that doesn't allow for endless spin-offs. It was actually somewhat bold that WB allowed Nolan to end the series at Part 3 and have Bruce ride off into the sunset instead of trying to make continuous sequels. It was a franchise movie, but it's clear Nolan was given a lot of creative freedom to do what he wanted.

Someone on Twitter wrote a great thread detailing the rise and fall of the DCEU, and he noted the beginning of the troubles came from a simple problem: WB wanted a Marvel-style shared universe where they could benefit from all sorts of spin-offs and crossovers, but they also wanted to recapture the acclaim of The Dark Knight by making dark, serious director-driven movies where the auteur has all the creative control. Those are not requests that really blend well together, and the height of this can be seen with Batman v. Superman. A key reason the MCU works is because they have an oversight system in place to tell directors no when they want to do something that might hurt the brand or go against what they're planning, and it seems like WB wasn't willing to do that until it was too late (hence Suicide Squad and Justice League being hacked to pieces to try and save them in the editing room rather than WB simply taking steps to ensure they never got to that point in the first place).

 

[Loki882]

I feel like BVS was meant to the be the Empire Strikes Back-esque "darker more serious sequel" where the heroes get put through the ringer.

Here's the thing though, ESB worked in that way in part because you'd gotten a relatively optimistic, fun, rollicking adventure film beforehand in A New Hope. So "going deeper" in the sequel made sense.

But MOS was already a "darker and more serious" Superman film, with a more brooding and unsure Superman. So what you ended up having is a "dark Superman" movie, and then and even darker Superman movie (which also had the darkest and most morally hazy version of Batman yet put to film on top of it." And the audience just went "are we ever going to get to see a Superman who isn't dark, brooding, mopey, and unsure of himself? Is that too much to ask?"

 

[KangConquers]

Matthew Vaughn maybe?