Justice League If Snyder is completely gone, who carries the torch going forward?

[OdinSon]

Yeah because WB messing about with his movies had nothing to do with it. He did basically 1 untouched movie out of his 3 pictures. Maybe MOS was messed with as well, we don't know as it wasn't getting the attention from media that the series got from BvS fiasco on.

MOS was a mess. BVS UC is NOT a masterpiece that Snyder fans would have us believe and wouldn't have fared any better at the box office. And the JL cut that Snyder produced was reportedly unwatchable. Anyway, it's a useless debate. Snyder fans will NEVER accept what's obvious to everyone else. He has burned the DCEU to the ground.

 

[Kevin_28]

If I recall correctly, reading quite a few articles when wb first announced dceu that Zack came out with a very basic outline and they wanted their directors to have their own sandbox to play and get creative in. Whatever that's worth.

 

[Reel-Man]

MOS was a mess. BVS UC is NOT a masterpiece that Snyder fans would have us believe and wouldn't have fared any better at the box office. And the JL cut that Snyder produced was reportedly unwatchable. Anyway, it's a useless debate. Snyder fans will NEVER accept what's obvious to everyone else. He has burned the DCEU to the ground.

That's all your opinion and regarding the cut, you choose to believe strangers reporting something over the internet. It's not like websites ever report BS and always tell the truth.

As you said though, it is a useless "debate".

 

[kguillou]

The core problem with DCEU wouldn't be solved unless they can determine what prompted management to keep hiring Snyder even when his movies repeatedly under performed. What was the reason for this suicidal decision? They need to find the person or persons responsible for this catastrophic decision and either fire them or take away all their decision making powers. Then bring new management on board who has enough sense to not even hire Snyder for MOS after Sucker Punch let alone allow him to continue after making MOS and BVS. Unbelievable. Some of us fans have been screaming at Warner Bros for four years to fire Snyder.

Oh and fire Kevin Tsujihara.

Well, let's be clear about something, setting aside your feelings for the movie for a moment, Man of Steel was a hit. Plain and simple. Superman Returns flopped therefore Bryan Singer never came back. Man of Steel was a hit and although divisive it made Superman a topic of conversation. The movie made the studio money and Superman became relevant again and lets be honest he was on the brink of obscurity before that movie came out. Best believe that if MoS grossed what Superman Returns did, Snyder would've been gone. That's why he was rehired.

 

[Frodo]

Thats what Im saying, people. Let the directors do their thing, stop worrying about a cinematic universe. Just make awesome movies. I think part of the reason people got so upset at Snyder's films is because they were seeing those films as the launching point to a whole cinematic universe. If Snyder's trilogy was just its own alternate universe/elseworlds/ unique take kind of thing on DC heroes, I think people would have been more accepting of it. And for the record i think thats what Snyder was aiming for all along anyway. He was in this from the beginning to tell a story about Superman using a different take/perspective. He didnt want to make this the MCU 2.0. Jon Favreau knew what he was getting into with Iron Man but not Zack.

Let the damn directors tell their unique stories and if it doesnt work then no harm no fowl. Do something different next time. But DC needs to DROP this cinematic universe idea.

This, so this.

The goal needs to be good films first and foremost , not trying to catch up to Marvel, not trying to connect everything for the sake of connecting everything.

They're all connect in the same universe now anyway so what more do fans want? Let the filmmakers do their own thing and make their own films.

There's no need to have a godfather or a leader to guide all of the projects and make sure they match.

 

[OdinSon]

Eh poor choice of words. I agree with firing Kevin part.

He should be the first one to be fired, even before Snyder. He was so focused on fitting as many shows as he can in a day that he even compromised with the quality of the movie by his two hours mandate. May be that's the problem with DCEU since Tsujihara came on board? More focus on money instead of quality.

 

[OdinSon]

Well, let's be clear about something, setting aside your feelings for the movie for a moment, Man of Steel was a hit. Plain and simple. Superman Returns flopped therefore Bryan Singer never came back. Man of Steel was a hit and although divisive it made Superman a topic of conversation. The movie made the studio money and Superman became relevant again and lets be honest he was on the brink of obscurity before that movie came out. Best believe that if MoS grossed what Superman Returns did, Snyder would've been gone. That's why he was rehired.

MOS was seen as a disappointment. There is a reason Batman was shoved in a movie supposed to be MOS sequel.

 

[Reel-Man]

He should be the first one to be fired, even before Snyder. He was so focused on fitting as many shows as he can in a day that he even compromised with the quality of the movie by his two hours mandate. May be that's the problem with DCEU since Tsujihara came on board? More focus on money instead of quality.

I used to love the studio WB but in the last few years they have gone through different heads that seem to have no clue what they are doing. It's frustrating. I remember the power struggle between Alan Horn and Lorenzo Di Bonaventura that was about the Andrew Kevin Walker and Wolfgang Petersen World's Finest movie.

 

[OdinSon]

That's all your opinion and regarding the cut, you choose to believe strangers reporting something over the internet. It's not like websites ever report BS and always tell the truth.

As you said though, it is a useless "debate".

My opinion is that BVS, even TC, was a decent movie. I watched it 2 times in the theater and even spent $20 to buy the UC. However, I didn't find UC to be a significant improvement over TC.

My opinion though is irrelevant. Talk to non-cbm fans about BVS. Many of them have told me they had a really hard time finishing the movie. If you truly believe that had Warner Bros released UC in theaters instead of TC, the movie would have been the wild success they were hoping for, then I believe you are mistaken.

 

[Zur-en-Arrh]

I think I said in my review of BvS that walking out the theater, the one thing that struck me was, how boring of a film it was for Batman v Superman. There's a lot I appreciate about the movie, but the pacing and story were not among those things, and while the UC aides those problems, it still doesn't fix the boring part, it just adds a little clarity. I certainly dont think it would have fared better in cinemas. What would have fared better was a 2.15 cut with a more streamlined story and a big action set piece in the first half, involving either Superman or Batman. As always, all imho

 

[Reel-Man]

My opinion is that BVS, even TC, was a decent movie. I watched it 2 times in the theater and even spent $20 to buy the UC. However, I didn't find UC to be a significant improvement over TC.

My opinion though is irrelevant. Talk to non-cbm fans about BVS. Many of them have told me they had a really hard time finishing the movie. If you truly believe that had Warner Bros released UC in theaters instead of TC, the movie would have been the wild success they were hoping for, then I believe you are mistaken.

Not necessarily a bigger success but the fact they already butchered that movie before any of this drama started, that tells me something about them and how they run their business. They started this trend of messing up movies in post with reshoots and made a mess of the whole thing. I don't blame the filmmaker, i blame the idiotic studio that interfered with 3 movies and surprisingly they did a worse job of all 3. We will never know if they would have been better received critically but i find it unjust that due to WB idiotic meddling and reactionary business model, they should be the ones taking the blame, not letting Snyder get the trashing he is. Maybe i'm old fashioned but this has not integrity at all. They signed off on his vision and then went around and completely butchered it after all was signed.

It would be a different story for me if he released HIS versions (uncompromised) and they were bad, both critically and box office wise. Then his firing and blaming him would be justified. But what we got is WB's Justice League and 50/50 BvS. The third movie is Suicide Squad, which should have been left alone and should have never been changed due to BvS's reception. It's two completely different movies and stories. WB just wanted everyone to fall in line with them and not let them do their "sandbox for filmmakers to work in".

 

[writer0327]

MCU has established steady stream of movies so people will forget 1 bad movie quickly because the next one is already around the corner. it's much like one bad episode doesn't ruin the entire season.

Exactly. One thing the DCEU didn't do. They haven't build up enough equity to avoid a terrible showing by a so-so or bad film. JL needed to follow up WW with a solid word of mouth. It didn't do that.

 

[MbJ]

Not necessarily a bigger success but the fact they already butchered that movie before any of this drama started, that tells me something about them and how they run their business. They started this trend of messing up movies in post with reshoots and made a mess of the whole thing. I don't blame the filmmaker, i blame the idiotic studio that interfered with 3 movies and surprisingly they did a worse job of all 3.

For most part, this obsession people have with great movies being ruined by edits is a myth. It has happened on occasion (such as Blade Runner having a tacked on happy ending that makes no sense and was recycled from stock footage from another movie), but the rule of thumb is that if the studio needed to step in and radically redo something, it's because it wasn't working to begin with.

 

[Reel-Man]

For most part, this obsession people have with great movies being ruined by edits is a myth. It has happened on occasion (such as Blade Runner having a tacked on happy ending that makes no sense and was recycled from stock footage from another movie), but the rule of thumb is that if the studio needed to step in and radically redo something, it's because it wasn't working to begin with.

It's not a myth and wrong. Do you work for the studios by any chance?

https://screenrant.com/bad-movies-ruined-by-studio-recuts-interference/

and

http://www.tasteofcinema.com/2016/10-famous-movies-ruined-by-studio-interference/

and

http://www.thetalko.com/16-films-ruined-by-studio-interference/

 

[vantheman77]

I can see Geoff Johns spending less time on writing DC titles and more on producing DCU film, TV, and animation.

 

[MbJ]

It's not a myth and wrong.

[YT]mDclQowcE9I[/YT]

Give it a watch. It's quite enlightening on the process.

As someone who saw the Ultimate Cut of Batman v. Superman, I can safely say that would not have performed any better than the theatrical version, except in that maybe some of the gaping plot holes are now fixed. Most of the problems are still there.

 

[Primal Slayer]

He never should've carried the torch in the first place. That's why they have the likes of Geoff Johns and other people who put together and over arching narrative that they want to tell and where they want to see these heroes go.

If they wanted Synder to helm the DCEU, then he should've done it as a producer, not a director.

 

[Reel-Man]

[YT]mDclQowcE9I[/YT]

Give it a watch. It's quite enlightening on the process.

As someone who saw the Ultimate Cut of Batman v. Superman, I can safely say that would not have performed any better than the theatrical version, except in that maybe some of the gaping plot holes are now fixed. Most of the problems are still there.

Nice truncated quote but that's not the point you initially brought. You said that when studio cuts happen it's because the movie needs it. I showed you a few lists which prove that the studios have a tendency for the opposite, screwing movies up when they shouldn't touch it.

 

[MbJ]

You said that when studio cuts happen it's because the movie needs it.

Yes, which is why I said "for the most part." Even some of the entries on that list like Fantastic Four and Amazing Spider-Man 2 were already messes well before the editing process kicked in.

I showed you a few lists which prove that the studios have a tendency for the opposite, screwing movies up when they shouldn't touch it.

And I don't believe Snyder's works fall into that category, from everything I've seen of it.

 

[Reel-Man]

Yes, which is why I said "for the most part." Even some of the entries on that list like Fantastic Four and Amazing Spider-Man 2 were already messes well before the editing process kicked in.



And I don't believe Snyder's works fall into that category, from everything I've seen of it.

Fair enough.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

I actually don't mind idea of JJ taking on Superman sequel and overseeing how DC films fit together in universe. I'm not afraid to admit JJ adapted ST and SW well and could do same for Superman.

 

[spider-neil]

I actually don't mind idea of JJ taking on Superman sequel and overseeing how DC films fit together in universe. I'm not afraid to admit JJ adapted ST and SW well and could do same for Superman.

Both franchises were in the dumpster when JJ took over.
SW - Reputation
ST - Box office and reputation.

 

[Boom]

Nobody.

Geoff Johns can be there to provide some input and to keep these projects on track, but otherwise I am all for filmmakers being given the keys to their respective franchises and letting them do their own things. Then after a couple of years, if audiences are showing renewed interest in the DCEU, bring in a filmmaker with a proven track record with ensemble films to helm a new Justice League movie. Furthermore, it will be the responsibility of the JL director/screenwriter to tie the solo films together, instead of forcing the directors/screenwriters of the solo films to set up a JL film.

 

[Boom]

I can wrap my head around Snyder being given Batman v Superman (as much as I didn't want him to have it). Man of Steel was divisive, and maybe wasn't as profitable as the studio had hoped, but it was hardly an outright disaster and there was plenty of good to build off of. Of course, they ended up taking the wrong lessons away from that film and ended up with something worse in BvS.

What I could not, cannot, and can never understand is how they proceeded to shoot Justice League mere weeks after BvS tanked, and with Zack Snyder still at the helm. I don't care how many millions of dollars they would have eaten by delaying the film. Plowing straight ahead with shooting and then trying to course-correct during and after production was mind-numbingly stupid. It's mind-boggling how anyone could have thought this was the best course of action. And honestly, speaking as a fan who was deflated by that decision from the get-go, Justice League had bad vibes surrounding it since day one.

When all is said and done, with the amount of re-shoots and additional photography that was done, I have to believe that they've ended up spending more money on this film than they would have had they just delayed it from the start. They reap what they sow. It's a shame that fans will likely suffer for it too, but Warner Brothers has to learn that this was the worst possible way to go about making a movie. I'm very curious who falls on their sword over it.

 

[harlequinade]

I don't understand how this happened. BvS OK, I get it, but how did they give him JL, - that I'll never understand.

I can't even come up with any scenario where they'd be afraid of firing Snyder. He doesn't strike me as someone who would have any dirt on other people like what Singer must have on others