The Dark Knight Rises Improving Fight Scenes

[The Joker]

I thought the fight scenes in The Dark Knight were a big improvement.

The fights in DK did seem greatly improved, and with Bane in Rises they'll need to be improved more.

 

[RustyCage]

Hmmm.

I respect Bale for trying his own stunts, but I think that may be the problem here. What if they got a stunt man who can do it faster than Bale?

It's not just the speed, the guy was also doing it with a lot more passion and expression. He moved a lot more like Batman.

But that may be because he had more freedom to do so. I'm not sure it's the guy so much as the suit being restrictive. He just had some puffy black pajamas on there, rather than a lot of latex and rubber or whatever.

Also, the choreography just looked better than TDK's.

 

[EliteF50]

It's not just the speed, the guy was also doing it with a lot more passion and expression. He moved a lot more like Batman.

But that may be because he had more freedom to do so. I'm not sure it's the guy so much as the suit being restrictive. He just had some puffy black pajamas on there, rather than a lot of latex and rubber or whatever.

Also, the choreography just looked better than TDK's.

True.

But I don't understand why Nolan doesn't just ask Snyder what he used to make Nite Owl's costume? And while's he's talking to Snyder, ask him to borrow Zack's fight choreographer...

 

[EliteF50]

It's not just the speed, the guy was also doing it with a lot more passion and expression. He moved a lot more like Batman.

But that may be because he had more freedom to do so. I'm not sure it's the guy so much as the suit being restrictive. He just had some puffy black pajamas on there, rather than a lot of latex and rubber or whatever.

Also, the choreography just looked better than TDK's.

True.

But I don't understand why Nolan doesn't just ask Snyder what he used to make Nite Owl's costume? And while's he's talking to Snyder, ask him to borrow Zack's fight choreographer...

 

[EliteF50]

Edit

 

[EliteF50]

Edit

 

[The Infernal]

The fight scene there did look better than the party scene in TDK, but I think some of that had to do with camera angles. I found that the action was a bit obscured at times when it cut back forth between angles.

Mind you there are still elements of Keysi (apart from the ready stance) that do look off and not visually appealing in a movie fight scene. I'm not writing it off, but I think there are some moves that should be avoided because it is for a movie fight scene.

 

[RustyCage]

True.

But I don't understand why Nolan doesn't just ask Snyder what he used to make Nite Owl's costume? And while's he's talking to Snyder, ask him to borrow Zack's fight choreographer...

The only fight scene I really liked from Watchmen was Rorschach VS the cops, out in the street.

The camera was rather bland, but the choreography was fantastic, very appropriate.

 

[Savage]

True.

But I don't understand why Nolan doesn't just ask Snyder what he used to make Nite Owl's costume? And while's he's talking to Snyder, ask him to borrow Zack's fight choreographer...

I agree 100%. The Watchmen fights were phenomenal. You just know the action in Superman is gonna be better than TDKR by default of Snyder at the helm.

 

[Lencho01]

The stuff Buster Reeves is doing looks way better than what we saw in TDK. I dunno if it's because he's just had so much experience doing that sort of thing compared to Bale or what.

Keysi clearly isn't the problem. It's the choreography, execution of the choreography, and the filming of it.

The fight scene there did look better than the party scene in TDK, but I think some of that had to do with camera angles. I found that the action was a bit obscured at times when it cut back forth between angles.

Mind you there are still elements of Keysi (apart from the ready stance) that do look off and not visually appealing in a movie fight scene. I'm not writing it off, but I think there are some moves that should be avoided because it is for a movie fight scene.

Yep. It just shows that having a suit that they can move more freely in with better choreography and filming can make it look better.

True.

But I don't understand why Nolan doesn't just ask Snyder what he used to make Nite Owl's costume? And while's he's talking to Snyder, ask him to borrow Zack's fight choreographer...

As much as I didn't like the film, I was shocked at how well Nite Owl moved. I was expecting it to be like the previous Batman films. But, they improved on it while still having a similar suit. He could even pull the cowl pack.

[YT]rifXX_XhJVs[/YT]

 

[Fudgie]

I felt that was a downgrade, personally. There should be a happy medium, and Batman should be scarily mysterious at least sometimes.

The camera doesn't need to jerk all over the place so much that it makes ya nauseous for that. Nolan learned from his mistakes with that style. Best thing he did was drop it.

 

[RustyCage]

You must have a weak stomach if that made you nauseous. The point was for it to be jarring, though.

 

[EliteF50]

The only fight scene I really liked from Watchmen was Rorschach VS the cops, out in the street.

The camera was rather bland, but the choreography was fantastic, very appropriate.

I loved the camera work because it didn't move around so quickly.

I do agree with you about Batman's first appearance in BB though. The camera work was great for what they tried to do. However, I prefer Snyder's wide angle slo-mo/fast-mo style much more.

I agree 100%. The Watchmen fights were phenomenal. You just know the action in Superman is gonna be better than TDKR by default of Snyder at the helm.

Yep! Supes punching Doomsday in the face -- IN SLOW MO!

 

[RustyCage]

I do agree with you about Batman's first appearance in BB though. The camera work was great for what they tried to do.

Well, it was a character establishing moment, it wasn't the core of the fight scene filming style at all. Everyone keeps exaggerating it into that. Since the scene was about the mystique and shock of the character, rather than the details of the fight (something we saw in other fights in Begins), I thought it was a brilliant move.

However, I prefer Snyder's wide angle slo-mo/fast-mo style much more.

I'd like a combination of things, including that. Snyder's action instincts are epic. I'd chance a bet that Arkham Asylum's similar effects are inspired by Snyder.

Slow-mo Superman punches ftw! t:

 

[TDKR2012]

The fight scenes in TDK were okay. I understood them, but wanted just a bit more.
and we won't be seeing any slow-mo either. it ain't nolan, and it was overused after 300 and watchmen!

 

[moviedoors]

I love a Drunken Master or a The Protector as much as the next guy, but I've honestly never had a problem with the staging of fisticuffs in Nolan's Batman movies. No it's not show off-y (he's saves being a show off for the car chases), but I don't mind. I like how he shoots a Batman attack scene as if it where a horror movie for criminals. The blurred scuffles are in keeping with the tone of Nolan's world. As soon as you go to wire foo, or the godforsaken free-of-physics Matrix Cam, you break the carefully balanced realistic-silliness Nolan got so right (ie no, this isn't the real world at all, but it sure feels like it should be). Nolan gets away with not doing an in your face fight by making me care so damn much who wins the fight. In fact, that may have been the single most brilliant choice in The Dark Knight: Batman doesn't defeat the Joker by punching him ("You didn't think I'd risk losing the battle for Gotham's soul in a fist fight with you?") but by making a choice.

 

[Mr. Earle]

[YT]J61RWkXEKTc&feature=player_embedded[/YT]

Just look at this. And its only a screen test. Nolan has nothing on this.

 

[superkong 500]

I liked that tobey screentest more than the actual fight featuring him maskless from the first film.
Anyway I think the fights in TDK where a slight improvement on the ones in BB but not all the time. The Hong Kong fight being the better one and soem of the Prewitt building moments.

But sometimes the fight just moved to slow and that kills the impact and intensity of what a fight specially one involving batman should be.

However I beleive that the main problem is still the editing and the angles. In the night club fight scene they just cut away too fast, they should let the fight breath a bit more.

Another thing is that the sense of geography within the fights gets lost sometimes. Batman hits a thug and as the punch is landing they cut away and in the very next shot he is already hitting someone else and in a totally different position from where he was before, its like he magically teleports or something. Then at other times we see a guy falling before batman hits him and its pretty obvious.

Last but not least, Keysi. The style is practical Ive watched many videos on it and its brutal, the problem is that it's not aestetically appealing.

When Batman fights atleast from my POV he should be a combination of precision, brutality but also elegance. He shoudn't look like a brawler but like something unique, his fighting moves should look like a cross between a cheetah, (fast and agile but also graceful) and a lion or tiger(strong heavy brutal)

But like a mentioned before the editing and the angles and camera placement is the most crucial element for the fights being better.

 

[Godman]

In TDK he was too slow and initially had me feel as if even jason bourne could whoop his ass ass Batman was too slow in all the fights. The initial fights were not intriguing either. In honk kong it could have been far more entertaining of a fight between batman and some dope martial art asians, but the way he took them out wasnt cool at all and it is a film after all.

Whe did the joker's goons get a lick on him and give him trouble? he didnt dispatch them as fast as jason bourne would and i sorry but batman needs to be the best figh choreography and fighter period above all else as he is more trained than any other on screen martial artists. Like Batman should be whoopin ass like Donnie Yen in Ip man. not saying wire fu stuff cause its not for this type of movie, but at least get the Bourne choreographers or action directors cause i was not impressed on the fighting.

Batman begins was too fast and shaky cam but had its reasons as to why and TDK was too slow and moves predictably mediocre compared to what i expect of a batman fight.

Also the nijitsu throughout BB was astounding as we saw him unravel what he had been taught by the league, but in TDK in was completely absent as i felt he was more like a swat soldier with a cape and cowl rather than a ninja with a cape and cowl. he got too bold and started coming out in light like the parking lot and didnt prance out of shadows and scare folks like a demon bat.

i felt he was too human to his villains and not taking as a scary creature of the night.

i never felt a moment where the joker himself even felt like "F.uck!!!!! he really is a menace" at least once just to show how scary batman is. I guess thats why the voice seemed ridiculous at times cause he did it at unnecessary times when he was very visible and seemed very human. in BB it worked cause people perceived him as a ghoul or demon so when he spoke it would frighten them as "wtf is that in the shadows growling at me...(im pooping my pants right now)".

just sayin'...TDK didn't have any frightening batman moments. BB had several. the classic docks moment with snatching folks up

 

[Godman]

True.

But I don't understand why Nolan doesn't just ask Snyder what he used to make Nite Owl's costume? And while's he's talking to Snyder, ask him to borrow Zack's fight choreographer...

agreed

 

[Godman]

I loved the camera work because it didn't move around so quickly.

I do agree with you about Batman's first appearance in BB though. The camera work was great for what they tried to do. However, I prefer Snyder's wide angle slo-mo/fast-mo style much more.



Yep! Supes punching Doomsday in the face -- IN SLOW MO!

not the right style for Nolan's realistic style. He needs to do the Bourne ultimatum style of fighting for a batman movie. no gimmicks just non music bone crunching battles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T78lwKBIQYs&playnext=1&list=PL8BBE20C19D3AAC90

watch from the 4 minute mark. better fight than any in and BB or TDK...sad

 

[Saint]

The stuff Buster Reeves is doing looks way better than what we saw in TDK. I dunno if it's because he's just had so much experience doing that sort of thing compared to Bale or what.

Keysi clearly isn't the problem. It's the choreography, execution of the choreography, and the filming of it.

I don't know, it looks the same to me, more or less--with any differences coming from the fact that fight scenes like that don't really exist in The Dark Knight. Batman barely has the chance to fight anyone. In the garage scene, he drops four guys in ten seconds (including the batfake who doesn't even attack him), and that's it. "Fight scene" over. What he did was no different from what Reeves is doing, it's just not an elaborately designed fight scene. It's Batman dropping four guys in ten seconds (literally), period.

The "fight" in Lau's building is more of the same, in that it's not so much a fight as it is Batman dropping a couple of guys in seconds flat and moving on. The next "fight" is the Penthouse, which is more about Batman getting knocked down and set up for Joker's shoe-stab than anything else, so again, not a prime opportunity to show off an elaborate fight.

So, the only true, full-fledged fight scene is the SWAT fight. This is a fight that's designed less around Batman beating up guys with melee attacks, and more around disarming a dangerous situation--he uses tools and tricks more than anything, because he's not fighting ninjas or people that are coming at him hand to hand. He's disarming cops and clowns with guns, rescuing hostages, and defusing various situations (like when the SWATs corner him, or when he blows out the floor above him).

When he does engage people hand to hand in this scene, he's getting the drop on people and putting them down--there isn't really much fighting to be had here. It's not a brawl, it's a tactical takedown. I mean, watch the scene: correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that--until he meets the Joker--nobody even touches him during the Prewitt building battle.

So if there's a difference between the fight scenes in Batman Begins and the fight scenes in The Dark Knight, I don't think it was choreography, and I don't think it was Christian Bale--it was different demands for different action scenes. Basically, there are no ninjas for Batman to fight in The Dark Knight--just a bunch of guys with guns that he drops effortlessly.

Personally, while I think the coolest melee batle is the one with the ninjas at the monorail in Begins, The Prewitt building is the coolest battle in the series, and it's cool for all the times Batman isn't just wailing on people. I liked seeing Batman do things that were inventive (loved everything he did with the grapple gun, for example), rather than just brawling with thugs who were nowhere near his league.

It makes sense to me that if you drop Batman in a room with a bunch of dopes with guns, he's going to drop them in ten seconds and their isn't going to be much of a fight at all. That's the lens through which I understand the TDK fights.

With Bane in this movie, that's going to be something else entirely--an enemy that can actually last against Batman. We saw that with Ra's, but after TDK and Inception, I think Nolan has a better understanding of how to design an exciting action scene (where the fight with Ra's was kind of weak).

I think Nolan raised his action standard in TDK, even if the melee fighting was basic for the reasons explained above, and I would hope he raises the bar again--which this time may mean more elaborate melee combat, since Bane is in the movie.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Yeah well those guys where aiming at the ceiling and waiting to get dropped. Lau should have hired better bodyguards.

In any case, those are supposed to be fight scenes no matter who wins and no matter how easily. They arent romantic scenes, they are fighting scenes, period. Like the Spiderman video i posted right above where both Tobey and his moves were amazing, despite the thugs not managing even one hit on him. So these scenes are supposed to be awesome and most of TDK's really werent. Should i mention the crappy choregraphy in HK and the moves copied directly from the Arkham/rescue Rachel scene? Should i mention the ridiculous moves he pulled on the Chechen's thugs who were waiting to be dropped in the garage?

 

[DorkyFresh]

they need to watch Unleashed with Jet Li and study why the fight scenes in that movie are so impactful. those fight scenes are some of the hardest hitting ones i've ever seen in a movie. watching Tony Jaa movies would also help a ton.

they don't have to do the fancy martial arts, they just need to study why those fight scenes make people cringe when Jet Li and Tony Jaa take and dish out kicks and punches.

 

[Mister H.]

Fight choreography is definitely a huge weakness of Nolan's films. He's shown repeatedly that he can't get it right, so just move the damn camera back in for the more frenzied approach we saw in BB.