Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

[Octoberist]

To be honest, I only found 'hate' online. With friends and associates, it's always been either their favorite, or they are indifferent to it. Regardless they still admire it.

But with 'Kingdom' it far more mixed.

 

[Secret Fawful]

This is my situation with Crystal Skull.

Oh, I definitely agree with that as well.

 

[ALP]

As soon as they get down to the underground temple of the Thugee cult, the movie is pure awesome sauce. Love the cart sequence and the bridge!

But it also made no sense that Lucas made it a prequel. Yes it was his idea. It completely screws up continuity if you watch Temple first. Best to watch them in the order they were made.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I saw no problem with making TOD a prequel. What I love about it is it's not the Indy we know and love in Raiders. He's greedy, relies on his emotions more and he gets in trouble for it, and he's ruthless.

Indy's just more badass in TOD. This is the story that makes him become the Indy we know in Raiders. Once he returns to the village and he says, "Yes. I understand its power now." That's the Indy we knew beforehand. This was the same guy who referred to Sankara as "fortune and glory" earlier in the film.

 

[ALP]

I saw no problem with making TOD a prequel. What I love about it is it's not the Indy we know and love in Raiders. He's greedy, relies on his emotions more and he gets in trouble for it, and he's ruthless.

Indy's just more badass in TOD. This is the story that makes him become the Indy we know in Raiders. Once he returns to the village and he says, "Yes. I understand its power now." That's the Indy we knew beforehand. This was the same guy who referred to Sankara as "fortune and glory" earlier in the film.

Isn't this the entire problem?

Take a closer look at Raiders of the lost Ark. I quote Indy:

Oh, Marcus. What are you trying to do, scare me? You sound like my mother. We've known each other for a long time. I don't believe in magic, a lot of superstitious hocus pocus. I'm going after a find of incredible historical significance, you're talking about the boogie man. Besides, you know what a cautious fellow I am.

It's quite a point and theme in Raiders of the Lost Ark that Indy does not believe in anything superstitious or magical. He says in the film over and over that he thinks religious powers are fake. It is clear that the opening of the ark is the first time that Indy has ever seen anything supernatural and it is what makes him a believer. Yet in George Lucas's screwed up continuity how is this possible when just one year earlier Indiana Jones watched Mola Ram utter voodoo curses and magically rip out a man's heart through the powers of the Sankara stone? In Temple of Doom he sees numerous acts of supernatural and magic take place yet a year later in Raiders he goes on several rants about how he does not believe in the supernatural or the power of religious artifacts.

Temple of Doom does not work as a prequel, plain and simple. It screws up the continuity of the character and his core beliefs. And if you watch Temple first then you will also miss out on small little nods to Raiders such as Indy going for the gun, if you don't watch Raiders first the joke won't make a lick of sense.

 

[steintym]

I really don't watch Temple as a prequel (at least in how prequels seem to be coming out now). Doesn't really seem to add anything as a true prequel, and to be honest, I think it was several years after I saw Temple that I realized it was supposed to take place before Raiders.

In my defense, I'm "old" and saw it in the theaters when it came out. Way before the internet and discussion boards ... just my dumb friends and me talking about it.

 

[Golgo-13]

TOD is very entertaing. TLC, although a good Indy film, seems very long and drags much more than the others. Still, KOTCS doesn't really exist to me in Indy lore, just like the Chronicles tv show does count to me either....

 

[Secret Fawful]

I refuse to discount something Terry Jones directed any part of. Or that badass eyepatch.

 

[Eelectro 2]

you are entitled to your opinions but i think you just have harrison ford up on this pedestal and will pummel anybody that dares to say otherwise. i really didnt like temple of doom. from the thrown together action scenes to the irritating lead lady and that asian kid was so annoying. i'll take mutt any day over that kid.
and it wasnt too slow, it just didnt keep my attention. the opening is cool and all and the fight with the guy on the plane was ok but it just really never appealed to me.

i think its funny that people scream bloody murder with there being aliens in the 4th film yet everybody is ok with gods power in a box in the 1st film (technically 2nd by way of the timeline established)

i dont hate the movies and i find them enjoyable but only once and a great great while. i'm not saying kingdom of the crystal skull is the best movie ever made but i find it better then most on here give it credit for

 

[Octoberist]

Shortround was the king of my household! While he was somewhat annoying, he was more enduring than Mutt.

I don't think anyone had an issue with the aliens, but rather the execution of the aliens. And please don't compare it to the Lost Ark; because the first three films had Biblical or mythological elements. I'm not opposed to 'aliens' but it was done in such a hamfisted way.

Plus Eelectro 2, you like the Matrix sequels so I don't know if I can agree with you

 

[GhostPoet]

With what i've been seeing of Tron with the creation of a nearly photo realistic human being...couldn't we just go that route? Make Indy young again and have Ford voice him?

 

[Octoberist]

The director of Tron Legacy has admited that the Young Jeff Bridges is off. I've read reviews that stated the same thing. So it's not photo-realistic..yet.

Even then, it wouldn't be earnest film making anyway.

Plus, you have to think about Harrison Ford's voice; he sounds much older now.

 

[steintym]

I'd love a new Indy movie with a younger Ford, but no thanks to a photo realistic creation.

 

[Bim]

i think its funny that people scream bloody murder with there being aliens in the 4th film yet everybody is ok with gods power in a box in the 1st film (technically 2nd by way of the timeline established)

I never got the alien twist hate either. In fact if anything i found it was about time they touched the subject with Indy, considering he's an archeologist. One just has to look at ancient history to find numerous tales about gods coming down to earth. I thought this movie presented an interesting way of touching this subject.

I watched not long ago a very interesting series in The History Channel called Ancient Aliens, and in one of the episodes they spoke of the crystal skulls, speculating what their origins and possible use could be. I was impressed with how much of the mythology surrounding them was used in this movie.

 

[GhostPoet]

The director of Tron Legacy has admited that the Young Jeff Bridges is off. I've read reviews that stated the same thing. So it's not photo-realistic..yet.

Even then, it wouldn't be earnest film making anyway.

Plus, you have to think about Harrison Ford's voice; he sounds much older now.

All though...in terms of Tron...I think a young Bridges actually works for the film. Young Flynn is a computer construct. A powerful one...but still a computer and not able to capture all the elements of human personality and movement. So, in this case it's perfect.

But you're right...still not quite there yet. A voice they can manipulate...but movement needs work.

 

[ALP]

I liked the crystal skulls, I too saw a documentary about them. Quite a bit of what was in the film is taken from real science speculation.

Anyway a digital young Ford is the most awful idea I can think of. And for an entire film it would only make the budget about $300 Million...

Just a horrible idea. No need to lie to the audience by making Ford 30 again. Old Indy is fine, as long as they do it soon. Maybe they could quickly make two more movies for a trilogy about "older" Indy. Because while I think Harrison Ford looks terrific right now... I'm not sure I'll still be able to buy him as ass kicking Indy at age 75.

And remember, Indy in Crystal Skulls is only 55 years old.

From wiki:

Another novel and historically unfounded speculation ties in the legend of the crystal skulls with the completion of the current Maya calendar b'ak'tun-cycle on December 21, 2012, claiming the re-uniting of the thirteen mystical skulls will forestall a catastrophe allegedly predicted or implied by the ending of this calendar. An airing of this claim appeared (among an assortment of others made) in The Mystery of the Crystal Skulls,a 2008 program produced for the Sci Fi Channel in May and shown on Discovery Channel Canada in June. Interviewees included Richard Hoagland, who attempted to link the skulls and the Maya to life on Mars, and David Hatcher Childress, proponent of lost Atlantean civilizations and anti-gravity claims.

This bit makes it sound like it's from a movie but these claims are actually in "Mystery of the Crystal Skull," which is a well researched documentary not a movie.

 

[Panthro]

Isn't this the entire problem?

Take a closer look at Raiders of the lost Ark. I quote Indy:

Oh, Marcus. What are you trying to do, scare me? You sound like my mother. We've known each other for a long time. I don't believe in magic, a lot of superstitious hocus pocus. I'm going after a find of incredible historical significance, you're talking about the boogie man. Besides, you know what a cautious fellow I am.

It's quite a point and theme in Raiders of the Lost Ark that Indy does not believe in anything superstitious or magical. He says in the film over and over that he thinks religious powers are fake. It is clear that the opening of the ark is the first time that Indy has ever seen anything supernatural and it is what makes him a believer. Yet in George Lucas's screwed up continuity how is this possible when just one year earlier Indiana Jones watched Mola Ram utter voodoo curses and magically rip out a man's heart through the powers of the Sankara stone? In Temple of Doom he sees numerous acts of supernatural and magic take place yet a year later in Raiders he goes on several rants about how he does not believe in the supernatural or the power of religious artifacts.

Temple of Doom does not work as a prequel, plain and simple. It screws up the continuity of the character and his core beliefs. And if you watch Temple first then you will also miss out on small little nods to Raiders such as Indy going for the gun, if you don't watch Raiders first the joke won't make a lick of sense.

You know, I never thought about it like that before, but you make a very good point. Indy must have one Hell of a bad memory.

 

[Secret Fawful]

I always assumed after every adventure Indy just went back into denial about the supernatural- I mean he's in serious denial about it in The Last Crusade and Crystal Skull too, and those take place after Raiders. It's the concept that the character will believe in the supernatural if it's right before their eyes but as soon as the experience has passed they'll go back to being skeptical of superstition and such nonsense because of stubbornness or whatever. Another example of this way of thinking happens in Oh Brother, Where Art Thou with Ulysses Everett McGill.

 

[Doctor Jones]

But he saw voodoo magic and a man getting his heart taken out. Surely he would believe in the power of God? Or is that a whole other level of the supernatural. If black magic exists, why not the power of God? Yeah, I did forget about that. Weird too, because during Raiders when he said that I thought of TOD being a prequel and all of that happening to him.

So yup, big screw up there.

 

[Secret Fawful]

I figured, again, Indy just found some way to rationalize it or after some time had passed had gone back to skepticism. There's even the possibility it's not denial at all, but that he just looks or the logical answer first, and if none is presented, goes for the supernatural solution second. All of his adventures basically begin with him going through the logical way of thinking and ending with the supernatural method.

 

[JAK®]

And please don't compare it to the Lost Ark; because the first three films had Biblical or mythological elements.

Two films have Biblical elements. One film is about voodoo, the other is about aliens. So only 50% of Indy is biblical.

Temple of Doom took the early 30's serial adventurer aspect of Indy, focusing on exploring jungle areas and running away from natives and their strange ways; voodoo.

Raiders and Last Crusade were based on serials made during World War II, which focus on the rising Nazi threat. The biblical artifacts are based on the Nazi's obsession with them.

Crystal Skull was about the 50's communism paranoia; the russian villains, aliens, mind control, all staples of 1950's science fiction. They even got some killer bugs in there. They linked it to archaeology by using crystal skulls.

It all makes sense when you think about it.

 

[spider-neil]

it's really hard to put my finger on it but, raiders and last crusade 'work' and TOD and KoCS don't, at least in my opinion.

so what it?
raiders and LC had religious objects
TOD and KoCS don't

raiders and LC had nazis
TOD and KoCS don't

raiders and LC don't have annoying young sidekicks
TOD and KoCS do

 

[ALP]

I always assumed after every adventure Indy just went back into denial about the supernatural- I mean he's in serious denial about it in The Last Crusade and Crystal Skull too, and those take place after Raiders. It's the concept that the character will believe in the supernatural if it's right before their eyes but as soon as the experience has passed they'll go back to being skeptical of superstition and such nonsense because of stubbornness or whatever. Another example of this way of thinking happens in Oh Brother, Where Art Thou with Ulysses Everett McGill.

He was indeed somewhat skeptical of the holy grail in Last Crusade. But I don't recall him being skeptical at all in Crystal Skulls. From what I remember he seemed to go along with all of it and was even leading the way to finding the skulls.

In Raiders and LC the propositions of finding the artifacts are brought upon him by other people and he reluctantly goes along with it. But in Skulls wasn't it Indy's idea to even go searching for akator? I remember him explaining it all to Mutt...

Anyway overall I enjoy all of the films. But like I said, Temple is my favorite. And Short round is the coolest side kick ever!

 

[Secret Fawful]

It was the aliens part he was skeptical of in Skulls, plus the actual power of the skulls, until he was physically shown an alien body by Spalko. And even then he said "There's always another explanation" or something to that effect. By the end he believed in the power of the skulls, or at least he did when the skull actually spoke to him in the tent and told him to return it. And at the end he says "I believe, sister. that's why I'm down here." However, up until the tent he was completely skeptical and looking at things from the logical point of view. To be honest, I think Skulls is slightly worse than the others at keeping this aspect consistent, but it barely pulls through on it.

 

[ALP]

Oh okay thanks. Forgot about some of that, need to see the film again soon. Maybe tomorrow!

Also on that documentary, or one of them covering Crystal Skulls... it explains that the reason people think the skulls to be mystical is that the skulls are said to be thousands of years old and thousands of years ago no one would have had the tools to sculpt a skull of crystal because generally when you chisel crystal it merely cracks. However historians say that the idea that the skulls were forged thousands of years ago is a lie that just spread and they were most likely generated in the 19th century. But people who have actually found the skulls say otherwise(without real proof).

There was this one female archeologist who found a crystal skull while digging somewhere in South America. She swears that it cured her of cancer and also caused the death of one of her enemies(and she didn't necessarily want it to happen)- the skulls have a mind of their own.

There's also a very unfounded belief that the skulls will align in 2012 and will signify the end of the world. See many people think Lucas and Spielberg made up the idea of the skulls but they've been in mythology and even real life(such as the example above) for quite some time. The Berg just made the skulls more famous.