Discussion in 'Approval & General RPG Discussion' started by Byrd Man, Sep 15, 2007.
Inside The Poster's Studio
The Byrd Man of Hypecatraz
Welcome back here to Inside the Poster's Studio. Byrd here once again, coming to you from the Byrd Cage. Tonight I'm joined my two special men. The RPGs mod Batman aka MB aka Goat-****er and our elder statesman and elder psycho, Keyser Soze. Welcome, gents
MB: Charmed to be here.
For the third time.
Soze: I think it's the second time for me, I've lost count
Glad to be here also.
You're damned right you are.
Just to let you guys know, me, Byrd and MB are actually all the same person.
So this is Byrd interviewing himself.
Yes, it's quite disturbing.
And quite magical at the same time.
Shut up, Inner Child!
Am I the feminine side?
If you want to be.
Off to the make-up counter!
Yeah, you're in charge of this headcase we call a mind.
Let me go ahead and jump into our questions. This is a special edition of ITPS. We're here to talk about the state of our RPGs on the hype. Gentlemen, as you have noticed, activity is very low in almost every RPG. Games are crawling by and only a few core posters are playing. What's your thoughts on this? Start with MB and then Soze
I think with the growing population of games, there've been more players. And with more players comes more demand for characters and storyline interaction. It hasn't quite meshed as well as when it was an initial few of us.
I think it's a very complex, multi-faceted issue, this decline of the RPGs. It's hard to sum it all up in a single soundbite, so I might end up rambling on a bit here.
Go for it
And MB can feel free to chime in on Soze's thoughts as well
Right, when you look at the games when they were at their most active and thriving, it was when the original Marvel and DC RPGs were first formed, back in late 2004. Then, it was new, and exciting, and I think it was one of these weird one-off freak occurences of the right combination of people put together at the right time with the right incentive to tell a great story.
And as the seasons went on, the stories became more refined, people left and other great writers jumped on. The RPGs got bigger and better, and more RPGs emerged from them. But this was simultaneously a good thing and a bad thing, I feel.
Yeah. That's very true.
With better writing came a more 'fan-fiction' approach to each game.
What you get is that everyone wants to play Batman, or Spider-Man, so another RPG is formed where they can play them. But the problem is that all these various satellite Marvel and DC RPGS had the stigma of not being the "real" Marvel/DC RPG, and so their activity always suffered in comparison.
But in contrast, the "real" RPGs for Marvel and DC were becoming like a microcosm of the real comic companies themselves - characters becoming burdened under heaps of complex continuity and various creative runs by other writers.
And when you had new spin-off RPGs forming, they became like microcosms of Marvel's Ultimate line - fresh and exciting and new, but redundant once they were around a while and developed a complex continuity of their own.
I agree there. The thrill of player controlled continuity doesn't mean anything when all the major characters have been developed by someone else
This increasingly dense history has made the games increasingly uninviting for new players, so we get less and less new players while, at the same time, the old players inevitably start to drift away.
If you think about it, some of the veteran RPers here have been playing the games - sometimes playing the same character - for far longer than what would be considered a landmark run if it was a comic writer doing it in the actual ongoing comics
And unless the games' continuity are limited to one season at a time, that's an issue that pretty much cannot be avoided.
So to sum up, it pains me to say this, but I think the RPGs are going through a slow, agonising death right now, and I'm not sure if we can really do anything about it other than slightly slow down the progress of the cancer under this current model.
A reboot for Marvel worked a treat..... for a while. But it's a short term fix. Right now, short term fixes are all we have.
By contrast, it may be all that we need.
It was a mistake to keep games like World of Heroes going well into the better part of the decade. They should have been shortened under their respective continuity, then remade for someone else to take a shot at each character.
Like a game, in a sense.
You stop the round, you get new players.
They continue their round.
They stop, new players.
So on and so forth.
We may be getting ahead of ourselves here, as "possible solutions" may be one of Byrd's next questions, but I have had similar ideas on the matter.
Actually, I have no planned questions.
We're just going with the flow.
oh right, you hack.
Some interviewer you are.
But I do want to ask you two something real quickly.
Shoot. I'll get back to MB's suggestions in a minute then.
You mentioned that the expanding of the RPers into other RPers and pretty much stretching themselves thin. Would you then be supportive of a move to rid the RPGs of all games save for the core games?
Define "core games".
Just the DC and Marvel RPG's?
WOH, HvV, and OU?
Yes. Maybe DC and Marvel and then UDC and ASM
I'd include OU into that as well
Those are the games that are up right now.
See, I think it might be beneficial to have just the Heroes VS Villains Marvel RPG, the World of Heroes DC RPG, and the One Universe RPG, one core game for each board. But that's very easy for me to say, as I've never really been involved in the ULtimate games or other spin-offs.
Yeah, I don't want to lose Ultimate. And neither do the players playing them.
Considering I'm not really involved with WOH or HvV right now, that game's keeping my focus.
In my opinion, maybe if we have one ongoing RPG for each board, then finite games running two. Best of both worlds, of sorts.
But to get back to what MB was saying earlier.
It's a double-edged sword. Because yes, long-term endless games spanning across multiple seasons can be a burden, it introduces complex continuity that can be a headache, and makes games inaccessible.
But let's not sell short the plus sides of it too. One of the writing endeavours I'm proudest of is my downfall of Harvey Dent arc in One Universe. That was a 2 years of my life I committed to that storyline, and in my opinion what worked so well about it was BECAUSE I could tell that story very slowly, over a long period of time, across multiple seasons.
Likewise, one of my best pieces of work was last season's Batman arc of Ultimate. Aswell as my respective runs on Nightwing and Daredevil.
They weren't one-in-done deals. They were season spanning storylines.
Maybe it's the word "season", but I like to think of the long-running RPGs like TV shows. Where each season has its own distinct storyline with its own "Big Bad", but you have overarching characters and stories that carry across multiple seasons.
But does that go back to what MB said? More fan-fic than game?
Yes, that's the downside, Byrd. It really is fanfic with a little bit of wiggle room for interacting with other players.
The problem is, I think, everyone tries to be as ambitious as Soze was with Dent. And most of the time, they can't keep up with their own stories.
And is it really all that productive to pour our hearts and souls writing for hours and hours, all this deep, multi-layered stuff that most of the already-limited readership is just going to skip over in favor of just skimming the quick post that directly affects them and they have to reply to?
Real life has a way of providing a serious cram into the flow of a game, and it's definitely the biggest detractor from activity.
Well said, MB, that was going to be my next point.
After making my bow with Dent, I tried to embark on two equally ambitious stories with Iron Man and Thor.
With Iron Man, I had a complex, two-season saga that would steadily introduce Iron Man's rogues gallery and weave them into the fabric of the game in an elaborate political/industrial conspiracy saga that would have culminated in The Mandarin being the Big Bad of next season.
Which is another problem in itself, that I'll elborate on when you're finished.
And with Thor I got REALLY pretentious. Where I had crafted a story that would unfold in the structure of a five-act Shakespearian tragedy, with each act following the classic rules of the genre. Hence me opening with a doom-proclaiming prologue, and not introducing the hero right away.
And with both, lack of posting brought each story to a stuttering halt (I never got to do my Thor solliloquay!) and I dropped both characters, and ultimately dropped out of the game completely. I do have ideas for coming back, but if I do, I'm tempted to pick up a short-term, one and done character who I can wing it with a bit rather than having elaborate plans.
So you'd say your eyes where bigger than your stomach, as we like to say around here.
On a purely personal level, I'm having a crisis of motivation with the RPGs. I think the problem is that I'm writing my own comic now, and when you've started to experience creating your own characters and telling your own stories with them, fanfic loses some of its shine.
In essence, Soze is Mark Millar
What a cruel thing to say.
I mean, he's Scottish, he loves creating his own characters, and he's completely bat**** insane.
That brings up something I wanted to touch on. We've seen a lot of RPers come and go. Hell, believe it not I've been here for four years now. Do you think at some point, you grow out of writing in the RPGs?
I think it's possible. I certainly don't think I've reached that point yet, but we've seen tons of players leave and never look back. And I'm alright with that, quite honestly. I think the RPG's should be handed down to new players with new ideas as much as they can. They shouldn't live and die by the people who wrote in the first seasons.
Yeah, my worry is that's what's happening.
It's got to the point where at the Season-End awards Best Newcomer is a bust award.
your options are typically giving it to the one newcomer, or not giving it to anyone because there are no newcomers.
so it's become kinda incestuous where it's just the same people playing the same characters acting out the same stuff over and over.
Certainly. There are two or three that I can say stick around, per season.
One thing I think about is the demographic of our RPers. With a few exceptions, most are late teens/early to mid 20's. That time of your life is filled with constant flux. School, life, work, etc. At some point, you can't do it all. Something has to be trimmed out.
That's part of it, too.
Yeah, age is a big part of it.
There are alot of reasons that contribute, and going back to your original question, Byrd, I don't think me, Soze, or anyone else can nail down one definitive answer.
When we first started, Karem-Knight was 12, Electro UK was 14.
I was 14 pretending to be 26.
So now I can't believe it when I'll look at their Facebook profile and realise OH MY GOD KAREM-KNIGHT IS 18 NOW.
Or HOLY CRAP ELECTRO UK IS IN HIS 20s! HE IS OFF TO COLLEGE!
Electro UK might be HAVING SEX in his college dorm right at this very moment!
That'll never happen
But when I picture that, I imagine a young boy having sex.
And it arouses you.
Because I like to think of things like that.
But, yeah. We've all changed alot since those earlier seasons.
I'm 20 years old. I've spent 6 years of my life being heavily involved in the games.
That's not something I can easily turn a blind eye to.
I've been playing since I was 18. I'm 24 now.
Sooner or later, I'll have to make room for life. Marry some poor woman, father a child, have a family and such.
....HAHAHAHAHAHA! That was a good one
I said poor woman
As in, I'll hold her at gunpoint at the altar
Yeah. It's kinda scary to think I started playing in the RPGs before I left high school, and was still involved when I graduated. So this has been part of my life longer than University was.
Heh. "Bananna Phone" was more important to you than your midterms.
What do you think leads to the lack of new blood coming in? I mean, I stumbled upon the hype by happenstance four years ago while looking for Batman wallpapers and found the hype and the rest is history.
I think the lack of new blood comes from what initially turned me off of the games when I first discovered them as a newbie.
I think the lack of new blood is the intimidating history behind the games.
That characters they love are taken.
And yes, not getting the characters you want.
So?! Like new characters! It's because of the hype I fell in love with Luke Cage
Eventually, I came around and accepted Nightwing as a placeholder for the eventual day when I'd get to play Batman. I just never ended up leaving.
And because I was so involved with the games, I ended up screwing up that shot at the cowl. Irony, thy name is MB.
One possible solution to the problem could be an upgrade of the whole RPG model. I've been thinking about this quite a lot, because I'm a sad loser with nothing better to think about.
And no woman will make love to you.
Well... no living woman. You're being on necrophilia, is what I'm saying.
Mmmm........I think I've got RIGOR MORTIS setting in now! OH MATRON!
I hope you intend to keep all of this in
What we need to think about is what we DO have. One of the things I love most about the RPGs is the community. This network of people who I count as good and trusted friends, some of whom I've been fortunate enough to meet in person.
Oh, yeah. I'd say MB is one of my best friends, including the people I know off the net.
Yeah, the people here are great.
When I look at the Hype RPGs, I see this community of talented, creative people, some of the best writers I know.
I love them as well as some of my own family.
So maybe rather than saying "the long-running superhero RPGs are dying, so the whole RPG concept is dying", we need to think a little bit about how to refocus our energies. To once again use a hackneyed comic book analogy, people often first get into comics through the big superhero ongoings, but as their tastes mature and diversify, many find themselves more drawn into limited series from Vertigo and the like, stuff that's more original and creator-focused. So perhaps what we need to do is start developing concepts for limited, single-season RPGs. They CAN be superhero RPGs, perhaps based around a single arc or scenario. But they can be anything else, too.
The Hype Murder Mystery has been a huge hit, both times.
We could do a cops and robbers style heist story.
We could do a Western.
We're working on a zombie story right now, and that's stalled a bit, but refining the concept could make it work in future.
Anything that can substain players
Naturally, nothing like "Metropolis: The Superman RPG!"
And start using the RPG Proposal board more for suggesting games, getting players onboard, getting approval, then just going and STARTING them.
But with more of an approach of you're not selling a concept, you're selling a specific story. A story that is told, and done, then its finished, and people move onto something else.
I think that concept has legs.
Everyone can get a chance to play their favorites at one time or another
Something that incorperates multiple players, not just something like "Darkseid has enslaved humanity, and only ____ and ____ are left."
Unless it's the DCU
Yeah, so to return to MB's example, "The Superman RPG" might be a no-go, but a "The Last Days of Superman" pitch about how the world is definitely going to end in X manner of days, and Superman desperately wants to stop it might be more of a good sell
Yeah. Because then, you have people like Batman and Green Lantern trying to help him.
I think actually, MB, that concept COULD work
just don't mention specifically who is left.
The world is conquered by Darkseid. Some now work for him. A small ragtag group of heroes and villains fight as an underground resistance force trying to restore freedom to the world."
that story ends when Darkseid is defeated. Its got its own continuity.
Yep. And it's controlled by the person who went and suggested it
So there isn't multiple people trying to scramble to figure out an end.
Yep, the GM would really need to take an active role in the direction of the story.
It literally puts a Game Master in control, like a D&D game
While at the same time being flexible in accepting its a game, not a solo fanfic.
My question is, how would World Of Heroes survive if this occurred?
My Arkham Asylum concept I pitched a while back, for example. I think maybe it didn't drum up enough interest because I pitched it as an ongoing, rather than a short-term story building up to a single climactic event.
To answer your question, MB, I think that you keep both around. Just like Vertigo didn't replace the DCU, having these games doesn't necessarily kill the long-running games. Part of me thinks, however, perhaps we SHOULD give World of Heroes a big spectacular finale, end with a bang and say "That's the story done. Keyser's Joker and wiegeabo's Sinestro and whoever else had their beginning, middle and end in that little world, and now that's over, and we can move onto something else, with someone else's Joker and someone else's Sinestro." But I think that would be very hard to get popular support for, and the backlash could be losing more players rather than gaining more people up for short-term games.
Well, yeah. I was assuming we'd have to restart WOH anyway, just because of all of the continuity at this point. It's gotten near impossible to keep from getting confusing.
But then, and I don't want to sound like a total selfish dick here, I personally don't want DC to go out on an apologetic whimper like Marvel did before its reboot.
I sort of see your point, but I think people also realize that it could be highly beneficial to switch out characters in the event of a new WOH.
If THIS was the last season of DC, that would be depressing.
Well, see, that hasn't been tried before.
Knowingly going into a season knowing that it'll be the last.
What I want is to go into a season in advance, knowing "this is the last season", and try and really work into really bringing all the multiple-season character arcs to a head and making a big climactic finale that really ENDS THE STORY. I mean, compare the last season of, say, "Heroes", where the plug was pulled due to low ratings, with the last season of, say, "The Shield", where they went in knowing this was the end and they were going to finish their story.
I think it could be very interesting to see where people would take it.
Because you have nothing to lose.
Anyone could die, anyone could come back to life
Someone could become good, someone could become evil
And could that be a bad thing?
People doing crap because they know it's going to be overwritten
Well, don't be quick to say that about our writers
We have some damn good "writers"
I only put that in quotations due to the TV show analogy
In reality, we're all players
Writer, actor, director, and producer
Players are writers and actors, GM and AGM's are directors and producers
Which is how we should kind of make it work.
Actors get their say to try whatever they feel is best, but it's the GM's that guide the narrative flow of the game.
Not to the extreme of, say, a Michael Bay.
"EXPLOSIONS! The RPG"
I'm gonna pitch that.
That's every post. We write big, epic story sized posts and it always ends with an explosion
There is more than one kind of explosion.
What were we talking about again?
Seriously, though, there are alot of good ideas here about how to keep the games from becoming stale. I disagree with Keyser's earlier sentiment, I don't think we'll die an agonizing death. As long we keep our heads about us, the RPG's can't die. They can be reshaped in a number of good ways.
I did say "under the current model" they would die. Which was setting the stage to suggest with some new approaches they could survive and even thrive.
Ahh. Okay, sorry. My mistake.
I was a little taken aback by the idea that all hope seemed lost, I'll admit.
APOLOGY NOT ACCEPTED!
No! You bastard! How can I die with a clear conscience?!?!
I can help you with the die part.
Settle down. We'll duel after we're done with this.
I think we were talking about the moral conundrum of ending the Marvel and DC RPGs But here's the thing, do we just end them, and throw ourselves completely into the limited RPG concept? Or do we end the stories, reboot with a new long-running game, and leave them to the next generation? The hypothetical, non-existant next generation.
I think it should work like this - with WOH's current season ending, we do what Soze talked about. Give it a final season to wrap things up.
We continue as normal, but work towards the idea of shaping the RPG's into a more game-friendly community
Yeah, DC gets one more season. And.... is the Marvel game still around?
I blame myself partly for that. A select group of core RPers stuck in an arc with very little GM leadership aka me.
Well, we could just end that season and do it with a final one for theirs, aswell.
I don't know if this Marvel RPG has enough history behind it to justify that, really.
Then again, since that one just rebooted, seems weird.
This is only its second season.
Yeah. Maybe we start another season with the interest of boosting activity, not ending the entire thing?
I'd say DC gets one more season, Marvel gets this current season.
But what about 1U?
Maybe shove off the slate of characters. Have everyone who's interested join up with limitless character choice.
See, with 1U, I actually think its harder, because more than the DC or Marvel RPGs, its OUR story.
True, but that RPG's hit a real slump lately, too.
So something obviously needs to be done. Not a reboot, mind you, but something that sends a very clear message of "OU is the place to be, OU is the game we need".
"But not the game we deserve right now."
"So we'll hunt it, because it can-..."
The Dork Knights, ladies and gents.
We'll be here all week.
Don't forget to tip your waitresses.
I mean, stuff like Byrd's Gordon/MCU saga in 1U is legendary. More than perhaps anywhere else (though other games have had their fair share of awesome stuff) I feel 1U is the place where you can get the really great, epic arcs and writers really bringing their A-guns to canon characters.
Yeah. True. Is continuity really an issue, there?Do people have to constantly ask, "What's been done with Captain America?" and such.
I think that's usual in RPGs.
Anything past the first season
I meant the idea of being able to answer them simply.
Unlike WOH, which is a nightmare to have to recap.
Yeah, basically everything you need to know about the characters you can get form referring to the RPGs themselves rather than thinking about their comic histories and how the game histories gel with them
So continuity isn't an issue.
I think continuity being jammed up is the number one cause of rebooting.
That's how it worked with HvV and UDC.
Too many retcons left us with a baffling continuity.
One thing I want to mention is recruiting and your thoughts on it. We've tried recruiting outside the RPG boards and they almost always fall flat.
Yeah, I don't know. Maybe recruiting in the wrong places?
I'm honestly not sure of how to tackle that.
I've never been a guy to recruit people. I've tried it twice, and it didn't produce very good results.
To go back to the short-term RPGs idea, perhaps rather than advertising specific games, what we need to advertise is the community.
The concept of this board where people suggest stories and then people work collaboratively to bring them to life and act them out
I know of some RPG recruiting sites, I've been contemplating putting up ads about the hype RPGs....but that brings up another issue, we may not like what we get. Are we too selective about who we like to work with? We're a family, a tight-knit one, but that can be a bad thing. Are we too clique-ish?
I don't think that should ever be an issue.
We should take whoever we can get.
And you know me, Byrd, I've had my issues with players in the past.
Yes, some of the worst community-related problems in our history have been clique based. Like the early rift of a group of RPers banding together to kill off Karem-Knight's character, and not let him pick up a new character, because they felt his writing was too poor.
Or LibrarianThorne thinking his superior writing abilities meant that he could hold whole games to ransom if they weren't going his way.
Or Matt Murdock rebooting the Ultimate Marvel game twice just so he could start off a story dealing with Spider-Man's battle with the symbiote suit.
Or somebody creating UDC just to play Batman.....
What dick did that?
Shut your ****ing face.
So what you're trying to say is that that attitude, above all, should be shelved in favor of survival?
Ego has no place in these games
Give me a crap player who can barely string together a coherent sentence, but who is a nice guy and is willing to improve, over the finest, most eloquent writer who is a bastard any day
Because if you suck at writing, you will get better by working with better writers. If you're an ass, you won't become less of an ass by working with nice people.
If someone wants to contribute, let them, and help them hone their skills. Don't dismiss them just because they don't write like the brilliant Keyser Soze.
We've had a few shining examples to show us that. Yet if those people came back, even with their history, I don't think I'd raise my hand to them and say "No, sorry, you're done with us."
No, even in my infamous "F U" to LibrarianThorne, I told him that if he was willing to set aside the attitude he'd be welcome back in the future.
And that wasn't even saying he was barred from the games.
That was just in terms of players liking him
In the end, no one's ever been kicked out of our games
I don't think we could enforce that even if we wanted to. "You're kicked out of our games! Go away!"
Well... I could
If they were enough of an ass, I'd be able to ban them. But on good authority.
Otherwise, I'd be abusing my modliness.
Indeed! But what's the fun of being a mod if you can't abuse the position!
We go Vic Mackey and plant evidence on them.
I hack into their account and post goat porn.
Which I have plenty of.
Edit their posts and put in racist language
then ban them for it.
All sorts of ways I could go corrupt with it
Alright, I think it's time to bring this baby home. Soze , final words?
Say, weren't we doing an interview?
I think I've said pretty much all I wanted to say - though I'm sure more will occur to me later. But for now, I'll just say this: the content of this discussion may have been grim, but it's not all doom and gloom. This is a great community, and I have lots of friends here. I'm still proud to be a part of it. And though there's a lull now - one way or another, I'm sure the Hype RPG Basement
will find a way to thrive again.
"I **** goats."
"I LOVE BYRD!!!"
"I want a half-goat, half-Byrd lover."
"I'll call it a boat."
I just want to tell everyone that they should keep an open mind. In the months to come, I'm sure there will be some unpopular changes to the boards, but if we all work together to bring them about rather than cling to the ways of the past, we can find a way to make everyone at least moderately satisfied.
Oh, and I **** goats.
Moderately satisfied - the way I leave my lovers.
I think that we got some ideas out there and maybe got the ball rolling. It's up to us, the players, to save these games and make sure they're still around for awhile to come.
Get off your soapbox, Byrd, we're tired of hearing you talk!
**** YOU, MB! I said fifteen words the whole time!
Oh, one more message - everyone come to Comic-Con next year!
Soze, MB, thank you for joining me tonight
My pleasure. Ass.
And there you have it, MB confessed - his pleasure, ASS.
That's right, I **** donkeys, too.
I always wanted a threesome with you two.....this wasn't what I had in mind. Okay, we're out!
I thought you said you'd edit down this ****.
**** no. It was too good to edit down. I just rearranged some of the answers is all. Still took me a goddamn hour to format it!
First of all, I think you guys have some bloody brilliant ideas here. Although I would miss the perpetual games, I think the one shots sound like great fun.
I was actually going to put forward a motion to have the next season of OU to be the last, and then follow it up with a new version of the OU that included Independent characters.
Would you guys want a thread where all the players could talk this one out? I'll put one up if you're interested.
Awesome interview guys, and I know I'm not around much, I really do like your one-shot RP ideas. Also, what you guys said about advertising outside of the Hype Boards altogether sounds like a good idea, as I've been playing on other RP-centred sites, and there are tons of good RPers out there, who I'm sure would fit in here.
Going into a season knowing its the end? I think that could be a really good idea. Definately up for it with WoH, would be open for the same with OU, depending on whether we can get out of this slow patch.
Yeah, I'm going to bring it up for discussion in WoH as we get ready to wrap this season up. See what everyone thinks
As will I in OU.
If we don't already, we should have a thread to discuss these ideas (and link it here!)
Moved to the Soapbox
And with wieg's rather cool ideas as inspiration, I give you... the Soapbox
Inside The Poster's Studio
Dr Byrdlove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Wiegeboarding
Aaaaaaaaaand, welcome back to Inside the Poster's Studio, the hype's only recurring interview program. Tonight I am joined by two of my favorite people on the hype. Myself and weigabo. And trustyside-kick is here as well.
**** you, that's who
trusty: Two of your favorite, or your two favorite? Regardless, I know I'm numero uno.
He just hit you with the semantics card!
And I am already filled with regret. Anyway, welcome gents. You're here tonight to talk about something very near and dear to our hearts, the World of Heroes DC RPG which is coming up on its ninth and final season in a week. Fellas, it's been a hell of a ride so far.
Hard to believe it is happening.
I remember when I first joined. Just hard to accept.
I remember reading all of season 2, waiting for season 3 to start so I could join. The DA I, helluva thing to try and follow up on.
I spent forever on my first app.
What was it that drew you two to WoH to start with?
That drunk bastard named Johnny Blaze. I was reading all of volume 3 of Green Lantern, and Kyle had become one of my favorite characters. So much that I used him all the time in the DTL, of which Johnny was the commish. So he pm'd me and asked me to join. And since Kyle was taken, I jumped at Sinestro. I was never interested in the RPG's before. I thought they were silly. But then I started reading season II, and it blew my mind. It was more interesting then most of the comics at the time.
I didn't know the first thing about RPing. I did not even know that these games existed. When I thought of RPGs I thought of the Squaresoft games I used to play. Writing was never a hobby of mine either. So it is odd that I got into this. I was getting into DC Comics and it just intrigued me. Good thing that the Hype was the first time I tried to look at online RPGs. Some I've seen since I joined don't look as good. Not to be a dick though just saying.
Had you had much experience in writing before you signed up, wieg?
We were in season 2 or 3 of the DTL at the time. And I had started writing some character interaction for the pre-battles because it was fun. That's pretty much the first time I had written like this. Before that, I really didn't write much.
Now, we all know about your history in the game. Sinestro and Jay Garrick. Now, trusty, who did you first sign up as when you joined?
Jason Todd. As I said I was just getting into actually reading comics and I went with DC. At the time, Hush was printed and then came Under the Hood. I fell in love with the character though I only picked him because Batman was taken.
You've been playing Jason off and on but Aquaman became one of your marquee characters. Were you an aqua-fan before the RPGs or was it WoH that got you involved in Aquaman?
WoH was the nudge. It is funny because I am actually watching Inception right now in the background. You could say that the WoH RPG performed inception on myself. I can give you a 95% guarantee that if it wasn't for the WoH RPG I would not have become an Aquaman fan. I also have SF to thank for picking him up only to not post as him haha. So yea, that's why it is hard to see the current cannon ending. But it is for the best.
I'm still iffy about it
Why is that, wieg?
Well, first, it's obviously hard to give up all that continuity and characterization that we've built for so long. Our blood, sweat, and tears are in these posts.
Let the records show that there are no tears in mine. And that wieg is a pansy. Continue.
Plenty of my *** is in the game, though.
Screw you, trusty. And it's mostly Keyser's, Byrd. Secondly, because we sort of caught up with DC by having our version of Blackest Night, picking up the new game with DC's continuity now essentially puts us right where we left off in the game. (Ignoring season 9 for the moment)
I would say that the game's continuity is similar to the comics in some ways, it's different in a whole lot of ways
It is, which is where a reboot works, but...I don't think we've done so much with continuity that new players couldn't pick up and use the big characters. We'd just need to fill in a few big things in the wiki
Although Joker getting his brains blown out might screw some people up
People have come back before!
Well, the odd thing about WoH RPG is how different it has always been in comparison to the rest. Even this reboot is happening for an entirely different purpose/reason. The biggest nudge for it to pass was the overall state of the RPGs.
And there's something to be said about going out on top, storywise
Oh, I've got the RPG-wide story arc covered guys: Justice League Musical.
The last thing we need is another $65 million superhero musical where someone gets injured every other day, and it needs to sell out for years to make its money back. But, yeah, posting even in WoH is way down. Just look at the post count difference in older seasons vs. season 8
I was browsing through season IV last week, and it just shocked me. It had like 2,100 post in a seven month span. That amount of activity is unheard of now.
Well, a lot of the players (some of the best players) who were around back then, aren't anymore for various reasons. I think the RPG's have sort of hit their Silver Age. Sales are going to dry up until something sparks the interest of a new generation of posters. Wow, that was a badly done mixed metaphor.
I forget if it was mentioned in a previous ITPS or via some MSN chats but a big factor is we are all older now. A lot of those people who used to post before and play are almost done with or pretty knee deep in college.
This past Season for me I'm ashamed of not because of the posts I made but lack of content. I had a LOT more planned with the stories I did and planned to be in as well as after. College just recently really kicked my ass as an example.
Going on nine seasons, WoH makes is without a doubt the hype RPGs flagship. Do either of you see the reboot as a sort of surrender? WoH conforming with other RPGs?
Well you personally know that I fought it strongly at first. At first, I did see it as conforming with the other RPGs though I didn't think of it that way deep down I guess I was thinking that now that I...think about it. But no, I do not feel it is a surrender anymore. Like I mentioned above, one big issue is people getting older so new blood will fill the RPGs. New blood most likely is going to be more familiar or want to be more familiar with the current DC Mainstream comics timeline/continuity. It isn't like a reboot with an RPG where what is being rebooted is being replaced with 100% user created content. We are sort of upgrading our software.
Maybe I missed something, but I thought we were doing a reboot. Basically kicking off the new game for whatever the current point in DC will be when season IX is over
That's the idea
We are. I said as in whatever cannon is current when the RPG ends.
I do agree that we need new blood. And that new players are going to feel more comfortable in a clean universe. But it's hard for the old players to let go of the characters and stories they've put so much time into. And a reboot is only a temporary fix. Eventually we'll have a new, complex continuity again. I'm holding out hope that we can spark enough activity and new blood in season IX, that we won't need to reboot after all. It's very unlikely though.
But, whichever way it goes, I think recruitment from inside and outside the Hype is something that's going to have to be actively worked on every season. Fresh players can help ease in new players down the line. Otherwise, we'll just be talking about another reboot in a few seasons.
At least, that's what I fear will happen
The slight possibility that the RPG would end up not rebooting because of sparked interest crossed my mind too. But as a poster who has established a lot of stuff with, say, Aquaman alone...I need to go for what is best for the overall RPG. I can't be selfish anymore about my user-created cannon. I can still write my Aquaman if I want to. Or...Aqualad?
True. But, with most character of our characters, the way they are now isn't much different from the way they are in the comics. Just the stories we've told. Ah, but Aqualad is dead...so suck it
Not when the RPG is rebooted. Though that is if I am still around. But, that's for another time.
Yes, we all know you suddenly gotten too good for the RPGs. Don't remind us.
That Aquaman Theme Park isn't going to build itself.
That's for damn sure
Good luck with that. Euro Disneyland Pt. 2. Now, you two wear more than one hat in WoH. In addition to being players, you're also AGMs. Tell the world how it feels to be my *****es.
Byrd likes his eggs scrambled, not hardboiled. wieg learned the hard way.
When Byrd is angry, the lube goes away
I told you that IN CONFIDENCE.
I would like to take a moment and thank both of you. You two are the real MVPs of the RPG. Between wieg's list and trusty's roster, you don't need me. Wait....ignore that last part!
*quietly takes the newly vacated position of ultimate power*
(It's how a take over all the games)
In all honesty, it is not that bad. Byrd actually respects our opinions when he makes decisions for the RPG. So I feel like I actually am contributing to the RPG more than just being the...*sigh* Roster ***** as Byrd so charmingly puts it.
BTW, trusty, you were slacking off towards the end of the season. I better not see that this time around.
I just do the weekly roster list, collect my paycheck, and blow it on a good time
Is that what you call trusty's momma? " A good time?"
I get paid in Trident Layers. Those guys on the commercials are ****ing liars. It sucks.
Let me get to some of my other questions before we drag on too long. I'll start with wieg. Of all the stories you've done, what's your favorite WoH story arc? Multiple PC or solo
My favorite arc has to obviously be the overall Sinestro arc. I started planning the basics while reading season 2, and each year would add more elements to the plan. I've actually been trying to end the arc since season 4, and got frustrated when it never quite worked out. But I'm glad how it ended last season. And thankful for everyone who helped me get there, even if they didn't realize it
at the time.
I also enjoyed taking Jay over the edge when I first picked him up. He actually gave into the rage and tried to kill Deathstroke after he nearly killed Dinah. It was hard to convincingly push such a good guy into such a dark place.
How about you trusty? Favorite arcs?
Taking a trip down Season VI of the RPGs, if I had to pinpoint my favorite solo Aquaman arc it has to be the Devilfish arc that grew to be a JLA mission in the end. Geez, even though I have typed it it is hard to choose just one. I...changed my mind. No more reboot, please. The memories! Uh...if I'm forced to pick a Multi-PC story it's gotta the Dark Alliance II but not for what you think the obvious reasons would be. It is actually because I had some of the best fights in it that I did not expect to be a part of. Fighting Watchman's Cyborg Superman...those posts still blow my mind.
Then there was the fight at the JLA Arctic Base and when the villains flee after part of it collapses. Another interesting fight I placed myself in. Also unplanned.
Aquaman was actually useful...how strange.
But yea, I actually answered that by going through my Aquaman wiki page and man looking at the Seasons it was hard to choose.
Trusty, who have been some of your favorite RPers to work with?
*pulls out wallet*
I'm assuming this is exclusive to WoH-work?
Damn, that is harder than I realized it would be. Gonna need a second haha maybe you should go onto, wieg.
Thanks for throwing me under the bus
Go for it, wieg!
Well, Keyser's Hal has been fun to play off of. And he was really helpful closing out my run last season. And trusty, I believe it was, was a fun to work with the short time the JSA was active (and Harl made a great Captain Nazi). There's also your Bart and Blacklight's Wally.
damn...there's so much more...see people?! This is why we need a good wiki!
What say ye, trusty?!
Ok well as wieg was writing his response of course I kinda came up with mine. But it is freaking hard. Interacting with Keyser's Hal Jordan recently has been one hell of an experience and not just because it is recent. Him picking up Hal meant a lot to me and he was an active member of the PC JLA team. Toss in wieg as well for his portrayals with Sinestro again concerning JLA stuff and as wieg mentions when it looked like we were going to have a JSA team going that was all kinds of fun.
Cannot forget you, byrd, because of my Jason work that would not have hit its peak I feel if not for you since I was worried I wasn't going to get to one point I wanted to: that showdown between Nightwing and Jason was when I finally felt proud of the road I went with Jason because it finally felt like it naturally went that direction.
And this may not be the most famous response but I was able to work off of and with LibrarianThorne as he played Superman and Darkseid before his bitter departure. Again, the chemistry just felt authentic and was a blast. I hope I don't get demoted for this response. Oh, and big nudge to Cats and Sensei when I briefly had Aquaman being "big brother" to the TT during part of the DA2 arc. That was an unexpected direction that went well.
You mentioned "He Who Must Not Be Named!" GTFO!
I know, but...I thought long and hard. His attitude sucked to the majority, he was nice to me though, and strictly being professional working with him was fun for me.
Alright, who's the one WoH RPer you never got a chance to work with, and wished you did? Start with wieg.
There's a few I don't think I ever got to work with because our characters never ran around in the same circles. And, like my avatar, I don't change my characters....hardly.
In the game, I don't think I got the chance to work with GL, MB, the Titans players like Sensei and Eddie. If I did, it was in the early seasons, and I'm just not remembering. WoH has had a ton of great players, and so many I don't think I had an arc with outside possibly a couple of posts.
How about you, trusty?
There are several that I did not work with directly because of what wieg said about not running in the same circles but more importantly often times I was determined to set-up a foundation of cannon for my Aquaman work. Given some of these posters barely play anymore or don't really play in the WoH RPG lately or currently I definitely regret doing that in this aspect:
Some in that list I may have briefly interacted with by group interactions like say the DA2 arc or something but I wish I had taken the chance to individually work with them more directly.
That list is similar to mine. Luckily I got to work with Spike some during Unity. And twy during my initial time with Jay
I wish I was around during Unity.
Oh dang, I think MST played the Big Red Cheese. So I did work with him too then.
Alright. As we move forward with the season and begin our talk about the reboot, trusty. If you had your choice, where would you like to kick off our restarted continuity at?
Prior to Brightest Day #16 I would have said I'd want the cut-off point be the start of Brightest Day because 1) selfishly I was worried about the reveal of Aqualad II's mother and 2) could be fun to do our own Brightest Day stories but believe me...reason 1 was 99% the reason. But seeing as Johns did NOT do as I feared was the smallest of possibilities to do, I am confident in the direction.
So I'm good with whever we finish and the current comics are at. My only concern was Aquaman. Not going to lie that was my small selfish worry.
You fishy ****er. How about you, wieg?
It's hard to say. I'm a little behind in comics right now, and who know's where DC will be next year. Right now, I'd say either before Blackest Night, or just after Brightest Day. The problem with the first is that new players might be tempted to Do BN, even though we just did it. So probably after BD or around wherever the comics are after next season ends (if it's in a good spot)
Alright, with WoH going into its final season do the two of you have any big plans you want to do and try to give your characters a big finale? We'll start with wieg.
Yeah, I do have plans for Sinestro, but I can't talk about them. As for Jay, I'm done.
What a tease. Trusty?
Given that I have taken a liking to working with the current comic stuff, I can say that for once I do not have any true Aquaman plans. What I would like to see though is more JLA mini-missions like some of the ones we tried to put together in previous seasons that actually did work. Though this time, I'd want majority of the team present. As for Jason? Well I should be done with him after he kills Bruce and takes the mantle of Batman at the start of the Season. I will let whoever wants to take over have fun with it when I drop him.
That plays perfectly with my plans. Bruce beats Jason into a coma.
Funny, because Bruce is going to be dead. Not sure how that is gonna work.
I'm Batman, that's how!
You asked for some big reveals and I gave you it: Jason becomes Batman. Stop fighting it. Let it happen.
**** you. Alright. we're getting ready to wrap this puppy up. Any final words you want to say, trusty?
I've never before looked so forward to the end and a new beginning. I hope that this final season of DC is jampacked with everything.
I hope this season goes out with a huge slam, bam, thank you ma'am.
I also hope that everyone can help bring in some new players so that, what ever happens at the end, WoH can go on with renewed vigor.
Also, I want DC to start following us again, and not the other way around
Well said, the both of you. Alright, that should do it. I want everyone to keep an eye out as WoH starts its new season after the first of the year. Sign up....or else. Trusty, wieg, thank you both for sitting down with me.
No problem. Was fun and much different than I expected thinking about all of my involvement in WoH alone. Freaky kind of feeling.
Did I totally **** your mind? I did, didn't I?
No. The WoH RPG did.
Of which I am the GM for. So, I did it.
Spoken like a true politician
Vote Byrd or I will **** you up. That's it, everybody! Get the **** out!
I have proof, that we agreed on, that Jason was going to kill Bruce and become Batman for the final Season. Why you are suddenly getting cold feet since that interview, I don't know.