The Dark Knight Intensity of Fight sequences in TDK!

[superkong 500]

Greengrass improved and so can nolan. Like some say the fight scene in tangiers is one of the most brutal and intense fight scenes ever, it makes you feel like your're i nthe middle of it yet at the same time you can follow and enjoy every hit every move. it was intense,brutal but you could actually follow it. The cuts where smoother not so fast as in supremacy which is a great improvement. Nolan should follow suit.

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that I don't want nolan to change the style completely, we want a brutal realistic looking fight but a fight where we can actually enjoy that intensity and see why batman is the most fearsome fighter out there, see his moves we should be able to enjoy the fights that's what its all about.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I love the fighting in batman begins!!!! Its suppose to be like that because batman comes out of no where and he moves really fast. Plus, batman was trained to engage 600 men thats one reason why the fighting scenes looks so fast. I want them to keep the fighting style the same.

He wasn't trained to engage 600 men, he was trained to engage 6 to 12. You don't even see Superman taking on 600 men.

And I too want the fighting style to stay the same, but I think it would be better to pan the camera out a bit.

 

[Rockbottom]

I'd like the fighting style the same, the elbow blocks/attacks really worked in my opinion, however the camera angles and shots need some serious revising.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I thought the fighting style was excellent.

What's in question is more of the camera work.

 

[rory_bat]

I thought the fighting style was excellent.

What's in question is more of the camera work.

I think the camera work was fine. Nolan/Pfister were going for a very intentional approach for the fighting, to be able to see things from the POV of the criminal. That being said, Batman is supposed to be all about stealth/speed/brutality in fighting so you need to have the cinematography reflect that. It's not just some dumb, choregraphed action film.

 

[El Payaso]

The fighting style will be excellent or bad once I can actually watch it.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I think the camera work was fine. Nolan/Pfister were going for a very intentional approach for the fighting, to be able to see things from the POV of the criminal. That being said, Batman is supposed to be all about stealth/speed/brutality in fighting so you need to have the cinematography reflect that. It's not just some dumb, choregraphed action film.

I liked the choreography, just not the cinematography during the choreography.

 

[Figs]

I think the camera work was fine. Nolan/Pfister were going for a very intentional approach for the fighting, to be able to see things from the POV of the criminal. That being said, Batman is supposed to be all about stealth/speed/brutality in fighting so you need to have the cinematography reflect that. It's not just some dumb, choregraphed action film.

I'm not really arguing with you here, I did like the fights in BB. I just can't take it anymore. I keep hearing all this talk and everyone mention how it was supposed to be in the POV of the criminal. Then why was there never any shots of kicks or punches directed at the camera. That would be the POV from the criminal. I understand what they mean, just feel like being a bit of a smartass.

 

[rory_bat]

I understand what they mean, just feel like being a bit of a smartass.

You achieved it well.

 

[ShadowoftheBird]

To start with, I think the bulkiness of the batsuit really limited the kind of fighting which could be portrayed both realistically and impressively. The style is brutal and quick, but you mostly see progressive, single blows and not a whole lot of movement.

I'm happy that the new suit is jointed and the cowl is separate, it will allow Bale a lot more flexibility and give him the chance to display his martial prowess (which, as he's shown in films like Equilibrium, is rather impressive).

Here are the things which are important in maintaining the style of BB:

-Quick, Aggressive, and Brutal Offensive tactics. Batman wants to disable his opponents, not dance with them.

-Where Batman is first introduced on the scene (from the shadows), maintain the extremely quick shots and jerky camera for the first few moves. Batman is a ninja, after all.

-No long static shots. The camera should be following Batman around even when it's not jerking because Batman himself shouldn't ever stop moving unless he's going to be giving dialogue.

To make it better:

-Start panning out to torso-leg shots and minimizing the cuts the longer the fight gets and the more people are involved. With the new suit Bale should have the mobility that prevents longer shots from revealing awkward motions.

-Utilize more of the martial arts styles we know Batman has learned. They don't need to be announced or have dramatic stance dances, we just need to see Batman show the same variety and improvisation that makes him an unpredictable and difficult opponent to counter in the comic books, and use them where they are appropriate, and none of them for very long. I think it is good to reference the fights of the Bourne Trilogy and Casion Royale.

-Of course, have him spend more time with the named characters. Joker, for example, is probably an extremely dirty fighter and just as fearless as Batman. He should be jumping around and smashing Batman with crowbars and tearing at his face.

 

[sasquatchs]

I'm not really arguing with you here, I did like the fights in BB. I just can't take it anymore. I keep hearing all this talk and everyone mention how it was supposed to be in the POV of the criminal. Then why was there never any shots of kicks or punches directed at the camera. That would be the POV from the criminal. I understand what they mean, just feel like being a bit of a smartass.

They didn't really follow through on that philosophy with the train fight, it was still too choppy, although a little better. It's not like he's covering up the crapness, both Neeson and Bale must be pretty good after the films they've done. I appreciated what he did in the first one but I wished he'd ease up on it a little and gives us a few cinematic shots. There was a shot from a BB doc where Bats dropped into the circle of bad guys and took them all out, with the camera above. That was much better.

I think the editing took away from the intensity in parts, the chase scene too. It didn't flow properly somehow, felt like bits were missing. I wish they'd linger more in general this time. The music got in the way in places too, I want more of Nolan's usual style where he takes time with things, with music and editing that isn't distracting

 

[rory_bat]

I think the editing took away from the intensity in parts, the chase scene too. It didn't flow properly somehow, felt like bits were missing. I wish they'd linger more in general this time. The music got in the way in places too.

It is interesting you mention that because Lee Smith is a great editor and usually doesn't edit in the school of choppy. He worked a lot with Peter Weir, and Weir's style does not cater to that... just watch Truman Show or Master and Commander.

 

[sasquatchs]

That's what I found odd Rory Bat, I loved his work in Master and Commander and The Prestige. Maybe it was just all Nolan's decision and it didn't come off entirely successfully. I didn't quite get the film I was expecting based on Nolan's previous work

 

[Figs]

They didn't really follow through on that philosophy with the train fight, it was still too choppy, although a little better. It's not like he's covering up the crapness, both Neeson and Bale must be pretty good after the films they've done. I appreciated what he did in the first one but I wished he'd ease up on it a little and gives us a few cinematic shots. There was a shot from a BB doc where Bats dropped into the circle of bad guys and took them all out, with the camera above. That was much better.

I think the editing took away from the intensity in parts, the chase scene too. It didn't flow properly somehow, felt like bits were missing. I wish they'd linger more in general this time. The music got in the way in places too, I want more of Nolan's usual style where he takes time with things, with music and editing that isn't distracting

As for what I said about the POV. The fights I had in mind mainly were the ones with multiple people that were aiming to be fast and in the POV of the criminals. Like the one you mentioned on the docks as well as when he fights 4 or so members of the League of Shadows in the Narrows.

 

[rory_bat]

That's what I found odd Rory Bat, I loved his work in Master and Commander and The Prestige. Maybe it was just all Nolan's decision and it didn't come off entirely successfully. I didn't quite get the film I was expecting based on Nolan's previous work

Fair enough, it is uncharacteristic of his work.

 

[wd golf39]

i liked the fight scenes in BB, i think they did it like that because they wanted Batman to look really quick, and stealthy.

TDK will definetly have a different POV on the fighting styles and camera angles, Nolan always changes things up to make them interesting.

 

[Hole Shot]

I still like this debate but I"m not going to repeat myself, so I'll just quote myself.

Did anyone notice in Begins that when he fought Ducard/Ra's the filming of the fight wasn't tight shots, hand held, quick edits, etc. ie choppy?

That's because you can film one on one fight and make it look believable without editing.

Watch all the previous Batman films, watch any martial arts film, hell watch any action film where there is a fight that involves one guy versus several guys at the same time - and you'll notice something. That no matter if it's three opponents or 30 surrounding our hero, the hero always ends beating them all one by one.

Now from some reason thugs in Nolan's Batman Begins are some of the first in cinematic history to grow some common sense, because they realize the advantages of their numbers and Batman takes on the whole f'ing group at the same. That's the advantage of the choppy filming of the fight scenes, it's to make one guy fighting multiple opponents at the same time look believable.

It's a personal thing with more so than anything, no matter what movie I'm watching it's first thing I notice in any "outnumbered" type fight scene. That's why I prefer the choppy style in those types fo fights. It's easier to hide the choreography and better portrays the chaos of what 4-5 guys attacking the same guy at the same would be like.

Another thing that really separates BB is at the train the first time he confronts Ra's and four guys surround him as Ra's takes off toward Wayne Tower. Notice how Batman surveys the four, picks one and makes the first move by tackling him and taking him over the railing, i.e. he takes the offensive to eliminate the number of opponents as quickly as possible. Now notice how in both those Jet Li clips and almost every other fight scene, the hero takes a defensive position and waits for each opponent to attack him.

What makes more sense? Breaking out of the circle or letting the cirlce close in around you?

And that's my thesis as to why Batman rocks Kung Fu guys' face off.

 

[3 Dev Adam]

The fights on BB sucked ass.

 

[3 Dev Adam]

"and you'll notice something. That no matter if it's three opponents or 30 surrounding our hero, the hero always ends beating them all one by one. "

Uh, not anymore. HK and Thai's been doing that for quite some time. Like, 15 years.

 

[sasquatchs]

Did anyone notice in Begins that when he fought Ducard/Ra's the filming of the fight wasn't tight shots, hand held, quick edits, etc. ie choppy?

Which one? The train fight was still pretty choppy and tight

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1289392836319252893

 

[Golgo-13]

Originally Posted by Hole Shot
Did anyone notice in Begins that when he fought Ducard/Ra's the filming of the fight wasn't tight shots, hand held, quick edits, etc. ie choppy?

That's because you can film one on one fight and make it look believable without editing.

Watch all the previous Batman films, watch any martial arts film, hell watch any action film where there is a fight that involves one guy versus several guys at the same time - and you'll notice something. That no matter if it's three opponents or 30 surrounding our hero, the hero always ends beating them all one by one.

Now from some reason thugs in Nolan's Batman Begins are some of the first in cinematic history to grow some common sense, because they realize the advantages of their numbers and Batman takes on the whole f'ing group at the same. That's the advantage of the choppy filming of the fight scenes, it's to make one guy fighting multiple opponents at the same time look believable.

It's a personal thing with more so than anything, no matter what movie I'm watching it's first thing I notice in any "outnumbered" type fight scene. That's why I prefer the choppy style in those types fo fights. It's easier to hide the choreography and better portrays the chaos of what 4-5 guys attacking the same guy at the same would be like.

Another thing that really separates BB is at the train the first time he confronts Ra's and four guys surround him as Ra's takes off toward Wayne Tower. Notice how Batman surveys the four, picks one and makes the first move by tackling him and taking him over the railing, i.e. he takes the offensive to eliminate the number of opponents as quickly as possible. Now notice how in both those Jet Li clips and almost every other fight scene, the hero takes a defensive position and waits for each opponent to attack him.

What makes more sense? Breaking out of the circle or letting the cirlce close in around you?

And that's my thesis as to why Batman rocks Kung Fu guys' face off.

 

[3 Dev Adam]

I don't give a flying ass about Nolan's realism. THIS is how a fight scene should be done. ALL IN ONE TAKE.

[YT]K06wDn3XsZE[/YT]

 

[bcgvh]

I thought the fighting in BB was perfect. It really introduced Batman as a dark, stealthy fighter and did a good job of relaying the "fear" effect that Batman creates. I hope they keep it "stealthy", but I think they can show more of the fighting in TDK.

 

[Batman>all]

i understand and like the reason to the multiple people fight scenes but for the one on one fights could have been pulled back just a tad

 

[roach]

is this the reason Nolan came up with or are we making this up to cover for the camera being too close....can anyone point me to a quote where he says that was why he did that????