The Dark Knight Intensity of Fight sequences in TDK!

[Motown Marvel]

i agree the fight scenes were again a bit disappointing. in BB, everything was far too choppy and unclear. i understand nolans intentions behind that, but it wasnt entertaining. in TDK, the fights were more clear, but didnt seem very well executed. they werent very inspiring and the moves were done too slow. the scene in the club was pretty rad though, that one was pretty well done.

 

[digu rui]

i'll have to agree that the fight scenes are one of the very few gripes i had with the movie, personally i like the BB fights more. in TDK it seemed to slow. also the editing in the main batpod vs. semi scene kinda sucked in the way that it slowed down the action and kinda jumped from one place to the next, no fluidity. anyone agree?

 

[jtfaria]

One thing I think you have to remember is he actually complains about his batsuit. ( which has to be extremely heavy and unflexible). Even after he gets the new suit it still can't be that easy to move in it which makes his blunt hardnose fighting seem more realistic as appose to him doing jumping high kicks to thugs heads.

Also if you remember in Batman Begins when he first shows up at Raz's and fights him. After some very showy moves by Wayne, Raz simple grabs him and says," this is not a dance," followed by a head butt. Raz taught him how to fight without wasted movement so I just can't picture Batman doing some crazy martial arts when he could simply drop a person by slamming them into something or landing a hard punch to the head, chest or gut.

excellent.

 

[KrazyJ1098]

The last 2 are notorious for it. First one isn't.

But even the third utilizing the handycam technique, the direction of the fight scenes didn't take the viewer out of the experience. I remember when I saw Ultimatum twice, both times in the theater people in the audience winced and ooh'd at several hits. That's what I want, fights that engage the audience rather than just "showing" it to them.


The basis for Keysi isn't what I have a problem with. As you noted, it's the choreography that's the problem for me. It just doesn't look as good as Krav Maga (Bourne).

Bourne uses Kali.

As to the fights in TDK... Having trained in a few martial arts myself, I actually love the way the fights are portrayed in the film. They're realistic and the stuff Batman does gets the job done. Nothing fancy, nothing overdone, just straight to the point blows. That's the way an advanced martial artist is trained to fight, and Batman does it the right way.

 

[tuffenoughtoroc]

Well Christian Bale was using the Keysi Fighting Method which hails from Spain, and if you watch the movements and technique of this type of hand-to-hand combat, is tends to be a lot slower and not as flashy as say, the Matrix.

 

[james283126]

the party scene was a little hard to see as well as the swat fight, and the hong kong one looked retarted, but i loved the garage fight in the beging

 

[astheniafreak]

I actually liked the superfast editing of the fight scenes in BB and i could make out what was happening (to some extent) and they probably covered up a lot of choreographed scenes that way.
The only bad fight scene in TDK is the hong kong scene, it looks very choreographed, especially the part where he punches the guy down with the gun or something and then lifts the gun at his head level, looks at it and throws it away. That was robotic.
Other than that, Batman doesnt do ballet, he kicks ass. They explained batmans fighting style in the BB bonus features as why would batman do a triple flip kick when he could just headbutt a guy

I think he turned around to hit the other guy again, but the guy was already down for the count and Batman had one of those "oh, I already kicked his ass" moments

 

[Crook]

Bourne uses Kali.

Yeah I know, but I'm pretty sure Krav Maga was implemented in the last 2. My friend whose been practicing it for 3 years swears it's used, so I'll take his word for it.

As to the fights in TDK... Having trained in a few martial arts myself, I actually love the way the fights are portrayed in the film. They're realistic and the stuff Batman does gets the job done. Nothing fancy, nothing overdone, just straight to the point blows. That's the way an advanced martial artist is trained to fight, and Batman does it the right way.

Again, I've got no problem with realistic fighting and less flashy overdone moves. But it's still a film. And almost everything is exaggerated to give visual glamour. If it weren't, there'd be no big chase scenes with trucks flipping over.

 

[redfirebird2008]

LOL, this might be the ultimate fanboy nitpick thread.

 

[Mrs.J]

Well Christian Bale was using the Keysi Fighting Method which hails from Spain, and if you watch the movements and technique of this type of hand-to-hand combat, is tends to be a lot slower and not as flashy as say, the Matrix.

One thing I think you have to remember is he actually complains about his batsuit. ( which has to be extremely heavy and unflexible). Even after he gets the new suit it still can't be that easy to move in it which makes his blunt hardnose fighting seem more realistic as appose to him doing jumping high kicks to thugs heads.

Also if you remember in Batman Begins when he first shows up at Raz's and fights him. After some very showy moves by Wayne, Raz simple grabs him and says," this is not a dance," followed by a head butt.Raz taught him how to fight without wasted movement so I just can't picture Batman doing some crazy martial arts when he could simply drop a person by slamming them into something or landing a hard punch to the head, chest or gut.

 

[Crook]

LOL, this might be the ultimate fanboy nitpick thread.

Fighting is a big part of the character, and there's quite a few scenes of it in the film. I don't see how critiquing a significant aspect of it is nitpicking.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Fighting is a big part of the character, and there's quite a few scenes of it in the film. I don't see how critiquing a significant aspect of it is nitpicking.

It is nitpicking to suggest that fighting is more important than the story, which it sure as hell sounds like the OP was doing. Let's just kick Chris Nolan out and bring in some ****** action director like Michael Bay. Yeah, that's a wonderful idea.

You want a real critique? Batman's voice. It works very well sometimes, but sometimes it's awful. And with general movie audiences, they don't even think it works *some* of the time. A vast majority of them think it's terrible.

 

[Motown Marvel]

It is nitpicking to suggest that fighting is more important than the story, which it sure as hell sounds like the OP was doing. Let's just kick Chris Nolan out and bring in some ****** action director like Michael Bay. Yeah, that's a wonderful idea.

who ever suggested the fight scenes were more important than the story telling? and im damn certain no one ever came close to implying any sort of idea that replacing nolan with someone like bay would be a good idea.

 

[redfirebird2008]

who ever suggested the fight scenes were more important than the story telling? and im damn certain no one ever came close to implying any sort of idea that replacing nolan with someone like bay would be a good idea.

The OP did when he said, "Is it too much to ask for good fight scenes?" The answer should be obvious. Nolan is a storyteller, not an action director. You make your choice. Action or storytelling. To me, story trumps action in every way possible. And for the record, I think the action in TDK kicks ass, including the fight scenes.

 

[Crook]

The guy asked about good fight scenes. Where do you see any indication he wanted better action and less story? That's an assumption on your part.

 

[redfirebird2008]

The guy asked about good fight scenes. Where do you see any indication he wanted better action and less story? That's an assumption on your part.

He's wanting Nolan to magically do both. Fact of the matter is Nolan doesn't have much experience with action. You gotta make your choice. Either you want the action or you want the story because that's really what Nolan's style is at this point. He's a master storyteller. But then again, I enjoyed the hell out of the action in BB and TDK but I understand the general consensus that Nolan sucks at action. As I said, people need to make their choice. Nolan's storytelling is way more important than action could ever be in my opinion.

 

[Crook]

He's wanting Nolan to magically do both.

You make it seem as if both cannot co-exist or it isn't possible to find a director that can.

Fact of the matter is Nolan doesn't have much experience with action. You gotta make your choice. Either you want the action or you want the story because that's really what Nolan's style is at this point. He's a master storyteller. But then again, I enjoyed the hell out of the action in BB and TDK but I understand the general consensus that Nolan sucks at action. As I said, people need to make their choice. Nolan's storytelling is way more important than action could ever be in my opinion.

I'm not really arguing that, but I don't see why it has to be a case of either/or. Directors improve (or should) with each film. I know going from BB to TDK, he got rid of SO many things I loathed about BB. It's not that far-fetched to believe that he may evolve as an action director, especially when it would be his third film to feature it.

 

[Motown Marvel]

The OP did when he said, "Is it too much to ask for good fight scenes?" The answer should be obvious. Nolan is a storyteller, not an action director. You make your choice. Action or storytelling. To me, story trumps action in every way possible. And for the record, I think the action in TDK kicks ass, including the fight scenes.

"Is it too much to ask for good fight scenes?" says nothing to imply that action sequences are more important than the storytelling (and this is ignoring the fact that action, when done properly, lends itself to the storytelling, its a part of storytelling). but if theres action scenes in an action movie, then its not too much to expect the action be entertaining. and if nolan "isnt an action director" (as you negligently claim) then he shouldn't be directing batman, as action is integral to it. and it'd be ignorant to claim that action and storytelling are independent and only come at the expense of the other. thats just flat out false.

 

[Icarus_Warrior]

I prefer the rapid editing of fight scenes in BB. Fight scenes are difficult to get right. If you go for reality, which is what Nolan seems to be trying to do, things will look flat b/c a real fight is very unimpressive to watch. If you want a oh ah movie fight scene it has to be very exaggerated which is something Nolan seems to steer away from.

I disagree. Casino Royale does this brilliantly (the staircase fight demonstrates this). The fights are seamless, brutal, realistic and exciting. I felt as if Bond, based on these scenes, was a violent and well trained fighter, and it was done to near perfection. Incredibly gritty.

 

[Motown Marvel]

there's a jet li film called 'fist of legend', its a remake of bruce lee's chinese connection. the fight scenes are some of the most impressive i've seen, as they're very entertaining and impressive, but at the same time quite grounded and not overtly stylized and sensationalized (mostly). and i think something along these lines would be pretty ideal for a batman film.



it's a good movie though with many great fight sequences, check it out.

 

[Eggyman]

'Chinese Connection'? If I'm right, it's called Way of the Dragon in these parts

 

[SatEL]

I agree the fighting in TDK Sucks. Everything is way to tight. I'm sorry but CN needs to step it up on that for the next movie. No wire fu or any bull ****...just beautiful fight scenes and some ninja ****.

One of the most bad ass things about Begins is how Bruce Wane is essentially a Ninja. What happened to that?

I would stain my pants if Batman 3 has a scene where Batman is infiltrating some sort of building. He looses the cape for this particular mission (because let's be honest it's not always an advantage to have that thing on.) He has a Samurai sword on his back and he just carves up whoever gets in his way with Some sick wide shot sword fights. OMG that would be so bad ass.

Someone call the idiot ward to let them know a member has escaped.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

It is nitpicking to suggest that fighting is more important than the story, which it sure as hell sounds like the OP was doing. Let's just kick Chris Nolan out and bring in some ****** action director like Michael Bay. Yeah, that's a wonderful idea.

You want a real critique? Batman's voice. It works very well sometimes, but sometimes it's awful. And with general movie audiences, they don't even think it works *some* of the time. A vast majority of them think it's terrible.

Am I the only person that digs Bale's Bat-voice? I swear I must be. I mean he's no Kevin Conroy, but he gets the job done.

 

[Pauluz]

I kinda felt that the moves were too slow, like it was just another rehearsal.

 

[Pauluz]

Am I the only person that digs Bale's Bat-voice? I swear I must be. I mean he's no Kevin Conroy, but he gets the job done.

No, you're not.