The Dark Knight Intensity of Fight sequences in TDK!

[Odin's Lapdog]

nothing in this franchise has shown bruce as a formidable combatant. Then again, he has never really come up against a formidable combatant.

 

[hatebox]

nothing in this franchise has shown bruce as a formidable combatant

I think that's an exaggeration, casual audiences will leave this film with no doubt batman is a brilliant fighter but you're right - he just didn't come up against anyone who stood a chance at beating him in a fight in TDK.

 

[Brian Braddock]

I agree that the fight scenes where sometimes hard to follow but that's what made it more real - it was visceral and brutal. More importantly, it was effective and efficient; just like Batman would be.

Judging from some of the posts on here - I swear some people would prefer that the choreograpy to go back to what it was in 'Batman Forever' and 'B&R'.

 

[The_Raganork]

Another pointless thread.


I stopped reading after:

"The fight scenes are better in the Cartoon"

I mean seriously...

This is a 11 y/o boys wet dream here...Maybe we should wait awhile. Clearly the fight scenes weren't what pulled the movie together and if you had time to say "he didn't do any locks or flips" while watching TDK then you missed the film.

Wanna see Grabs and locks go watch one of those marvel flicks and sacrifice the story. This was something bigger; better and more intense.


and for the record Batman did some pretty awesome moves in the first scene he's in. I don't know what planet you're on but when people fight they don't usually look like Jackie Chan or Kung-Fu Hustle.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

I think that's an exaggeration, casual audiences will leave this film with no doubt batman is a brilliant fighter but you're right - he just didn't come up against anyone who stood a chance at beating him in a fight in TDK.

i left feeling his was a decent tactician but arm to arm combatant? Not so much...He did fight in a somewhat thuggish manner all the time.

It's not like he was tearing away at the joker's goons or the penguin's circus guys like in burton's film BUT even those weren't particularly great.

 

[Mandalore464]

Well I absolutely loved the fight scenes in TDK. They were a great improvement over Begins'.

What I don't understand is the first poster complaining that they weren't any elbows, when Batman uses almost only his elbows to kick the sh... out of people. This leads me to wonder if we saw the same movie.

I would admit that the fight scenes were not as gritty and unforgiving as Casino Royale's. But I like Batman's fights being a little over-the-top and show some nice moves, I mean he's a comic book character, so it works. I wouldn't like to see Batman grab an enemy's throat in a lock and just wait for him to fall unconscious.

It was really refreshing to see moves that belong to a martial art we don't see that very often. And I especially loved the use of elbows.

 

[GregComicFan]

I kinda like the fight scenes in BB and TDK...



I dont think a Batman movie needs to be like a Jet Li/Jackie Chan martial arts film with the camera pulled back and Batman jumping and kicking and flipping all for the amusement of the audience watching in the movie theater. I think Nolan is obviously trying to establish a type of feeling when watching Batman fight.... very fast, like a blitz attack, extremely aggressive, rough n' tumble, with hard, single-blow knock outs.... I think Nolan is trying to show that when Batman fights you he pretty much gives a QUICK knock-out blow and you're done, and so the fighting editing/choreography is very jumbled and blitz-like for that reason.... also, keep in mind the suit Christian Bale wears is probably still not the most mobile.... so Nolan I think has done a good job.... IT IS OBVIOUS from BB and TDK that the Batman is a good fighter.... that's ALL I need to know. I think Burton and Shoemaucker (B89, BR, BF, B&R) did a horrible job showing Batman as a fighter.... he hardly fights hand-to-hand in any of those movies....(the only scene that comes to mind is the beginning of Batman Forever when Batman pops out of the elevator shaft and takes down 3-4 of Two Face's goons... other than that, all four of those movies pretty much show Batman throw one single punch to a bad guy and that's it...) Nolan is a definite improvement.... true, we never see Batman KICK and it is not like the comics where Batman is shown to be an acrobat and he knows every fighting style known to man (Batman in Nolan's world seems very fixated on just ONE type of fighting style).... but nevertheless, Batman is obviously a skilled fighter...he fights multiple aggressors, blocks, dodges, etc. It's all good.

 

[DeaDheaD]

I would agree with Crook that the Bourne fights were better, the style is just better looking, but the fighting in TDK was a vast improvement over BB and we or I could see Batman hitting people in the neck or chest and the sound of the impacts were also improved........The problem is that, to me, Bourne has had better opponets in terms of fighting, most of Bourne's opponets were trained the same way as he was, so that adds to it being better.......The one thing I think Burton definately got right was the different levels of fighting ability in the bad guys.....in Nolan's franchise all the bad guys seem to have little to no fighting ability............But I thoroughly enjoyed the fight scenes in TDK.

Also I think the fact that Nolan couldnt use hardly any blood hurt the impact of the fights.

 

[Fenrir]

there's a jet li film called 'fist of legend', its a remake of bruce lee's chinese connection. the fight scenes are some of the most impressive i've seen, as they're very entertaining and impressive, but at the same time quite grounded and not overtly stylized and sensationalized (mostly). and i think something along these lines would be pretty ideal for a batman film.



it's a good movie though with many great fight sequences, check it out.

Fist of Legend? Give me a freakin' break. Chinese martial arts films are all about overt stylization and being sensationalized. And the fights in Fist of Legend are no exception. I could understand if someone wanted the fights to be more like Bourne Supremacy or Ultimatum (sorry, Identity's fights are comparatively too showy and nowhere near as gritty), reason being that they are so fast yet so raw, brutal and seemingly quite un-choreographed - the combatants go against each other like wild animals, with no rules or changing stances or sizing each other up.

That's how Batman should fight like in a straight up brawl. He would not use fancy martial arts trying to look cool. He'd utilize deadly, efficient moves that take down his opponents instantly. Not to mention I don't want to see Batman using anything other than obscure fighting styles to give the impression that it is his own style he created out of his knowledge and experience with martial arts. So no Jeet-Kune-Do, Jujitsu, Muay Thai, Krav Maga, Tai Chi or crap like that. Keysi fits the bill, and it would be even better if they mix in a few more obscure styles like that. Reading the posts in this thread, it seems that a lot of posters simply want the fights to look cool like they would in a Jet-Li or Jackie Chan film, which is just, well, WRONG for Batman.

As for the fights in TDK, they were good. Not awesome, but good. There were a couple of shots interspersed in between that looked great, even if the fights scenes as a whole weren't up to that level. I guess it has to do with the fact that the fights weren't as fast as they are supposed to, but I think they can be forgiven due to the heavy suit and the absence of rapid-fire editing.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

maybe batman's fighting style should simply look more effortless, he certainly looked like he was using plenty of effort.

 

[joke]

I kinda felt that the moves were too slow, like it was just another rehearsal.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. While the camera was pulled back a bit and the scenes weren't as frantic as in BB, they were still too slow. Obviously because of the stupid heavy rubber suit.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I really like TDK fights alot, better than most of the over-stylized garbage out there in other similar films today.

 

[KrazyJ1098]

Fist of Legend? Give me a freakin' break. Chinese martial arts films are all about overt stylization and being sensationalized. And the fights in Fist of Legend are no exception. I could understand if someone wanted the fights to be more like Bourne Supremacy or Ultimatum (sorry, Identity's fights are comparatively too showy and nowhere near as gritty), reason being that they are so fast yet so raw, brutal and seemingly quite un-choreographed - the combatants go against each other like wild animals, with no rules or changing stances or sizing each other up.

That's how Batman should fight like in a straight up brawl. He would not use fancy martial arts trying to look cool. He'd utilize deadly, efficient moves that take down his opponents instantly. Not to mention I don't want to see Batman using anything other than obscure fighting styles to give the impression that it is his own style he created out of his knowledge and experience with martial arts. So no Jeet-Kune-Do, Jujitsu, Muay Thai, Krav Maga, Tai Chi or crap like that. Keysi fits the bill, and it would be even better if they mix in a few more obscure styles like that. Reading the posts in this thread, it seems that a lot of posters simply want the fights to look cool like they would in a Jet-Li or Jackie Chan film, which is just, well, WRONG for Batman.

As for the fights in TDK, they were good. Not awesome, but good. There were a couple of shots interspersed in between that looked great, even if the fights scenes as a whole weren't up to that level. I guess it has to do with the fact that the fights weren't as fast as they are supposed to, but I think they can be forgiven due to the heavy suit and the absence of rapid-fire editing.

I will have to disagree with you on that one. Outside of trapping, there isn't much that isn't efficient about Jeet Kune Do(unless you've trained in it for years trapping won't be useful to a novice). It's an excellent martial art.

 

[Brian Braddock]

maybe batman's fighting style should simply look more effortless, he certainly looked like he was using plenty of effort.

Show me a martial artist (or any kind of fighter for that matter) who doesnt have to exert some kind of effort when fighting.

 

[Dangerous]

I thought the fight scenes were pretty good in this film.

In Begins I thought the unsteady camera worked well to convey the unpredictability and chaos of combat.

There was nothing as amazing as the docks scene in Begins, but the first fight in the car park with Scarecrow was nice, you could clearly witness Bats' Kensei fighting style in that scene. The nightclub scene and some of the fisticuffs with Joker were nice too.
Not perfect, but a hell of a lot better than Micheal Keaton pretending to fight.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

Show me a martial artist (or any kind of fighter for that matter) who doesnt have to exert some kind of effort when fighting.

 

[gazzilla8000]

I LOVED the fights in TDK. The style was very unique and you can feel every blow, hear the crunch of bones snapping. It looks like quite a few stuntmen would've walked home with bruises from this one.

 

[Mee]

Show me a martial artist (or any kind of fighter for that matter) who doesnt have to exert some kind of effort when fighting.

Look at it this way, who did he fight in this movie?

Generic mob bodyguards
Nutjob Joker goons
Joker


None of those guys are anywhere near the level of Batman. So sure the fights seemed a bit effortless. I really liked them though.

 

[Borat]

I LOVED the fights in TDK. The style was very unique and you can feel every blow, hear the crunch of bones snapping. It looks like quite a few stuntmen would've walked home with bruises from this one.

I agree. The fight scenes were awesome.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Hey, that's a great example you've provided.

Because as everyone knows, the gritty realism of Nolan's Bat-films pale in comparison to the realism of a Seagal movie. t:

Fact is, in the real world (or as close to real as Nolan could get it), for a person to take another person out in a straight out fight; it requires effort.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Seagal, god that guy has always gave me a laugh.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

Hey, that's a great example you've provided.

Because as everyone knows, the gritty realism of Nolan's Bat-films pale in comparison to the realism of a Seagal movie. t:

Fact is, in the real world (or as close to real as Nolan could get it), for a person to take another person out in a straight out fight; it requires effort.

not films per say but rather the fighting style of aikido is somewhat straight to the point and minimilastic. I'd quite like bats to go through 3/4 guys without too much actual effort.

Now all film violence is stylized, so there's no point bringing in the realism of it. A stylized realistic toned down approach which is seen in aikido may have been better implemented. The beauty of it is while it looks simplistic to pull off, its effects can be somewhat drammatic which adds to batman's persona about causing maximum effect with minimal effort.

if you were a true voice for realism then you know a set of well trained bodyguards or a swat team would not be foiled so easily (or even at all).

 

[Brian Braddock]

Yeah DV; I love the fact that he used to tell anyone that would listen the story of how he took on the yakuza single handedlyover ownership of his dojo.

Years later, his ex-wife (she was married to him at the time) said that it was a lie and that he just "yelled at some drunks, but never fought anyone". t:

 

[silentflute]

Fist of Legend? Give me a freakin' break. Chinese martial arts films are all about overt stylization and being sensationalized. And the fights in Fist of Legend are no exception. I could understand if someone wanted the fights to be more like Bourne Supremacy or Ultimatum (sorry, Identity's fights are comparatively too showy and nowhere near as gritty), reason being that they are so fast yet so raw, brutal and seemingly quite un-choreographed - the combatants go against each other like wild animals, with no rules or changing stances or sizing each other up.

That's how Batman should fight like in a straight up brawl. He would not use fancy martial arts trying to look cool. He'd utilize deadly, efficient moves that take down his opponents instantly. Not to mention I don't want to see Batman using anything other than obscure fighting styles to give the impression that it is his own style he created out of his knowledge and experience with martial arts.


Exactly.

So no Jeet-Kune-Do,

True JKD as Bruce Lee meant it to be was just what u you described above.It's unfortunate that since his death, it has become all he was against in martial arts.


Jujitsu, Muay Thai, Krav Maga, Tai Chi or crap like that. Keysi fits the bill, and it would be even better if they mix in a few more obscure styles like that.

The thing that peope tend to forget when discussing combat, is that no style has ever won a fight. That's up to the individual. How well can the fighter connect the dots- his reaction time, process, tools, attributes,time spent honing and blueprinting, practicing etc. All thye above systems have their merits and can certainly be applied in a ruthless street confrontation.But it takes more than just physical prowess.It demands the proper psychological and mental attitude.

Reading the posts in this thread, it seems that a lot of posters simply want the fights to look cool like they would in a Jet-Li or Jackie Chan film, which is just, well, WRONG for Batman.

Agree with you 110%.

As for the fights in TDK, they were good. Not awesome, but good. There were a couple of shots interspersed in between that looked great, even if the fights scenes as a whole weren't up to that level. I guess it has to do with the fact that the fights weren't as fast as they are supposed to, but I think they can be forgiven due to the heavy suit and the absence of rapid-fire editing.

We're on the same page.that was my only promblem as well- at certain points I felt taht the movements were too slow.

 

[Brian Braddock]

not films per say but rather the fighting style of aikido is somewhat straight to the point and minimilastic. I'd quite like bats to go through 3/4 guys without too much actual effort.

Now all film violence is stylized, so there's no point bringing in the realism of it. A stylized realistic toned down approach which is seen in aikido may have been better implemented. The beauty of it is while it looks simplistic to pull off, its effects can be somewhat drammatic which adds to batman's persona about causing maximum effect with minimal effort.

if you were a true voice for realism then you know a set of well trained bodyguards or a swat team would not be foiled so easily (or even at all).

Maybe they look at Aikido but decided against it due the the 'teh puffy' gloves rendering Bale unable to perform a simple kote gaeshi. t: