Iron Fist Iron Fist General Discussion Thread - Part 3

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]515805[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]501695[/split]

 

[Darepool]

Well that's not racist, nor is keeping IF white. There is nothing wrong in changing the race of a character if race is not important to core identity, but screaming racism if it isn't changed or harassing a star who's on record as saying social issues and historical tropes will be addressed intelligently in the show is something else all together.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

It's all in execution. These are still artistic works of fiction. The Hand is like an ancient order of bad guys, so why can't they be Asian? Yakuza and Triads still exist in the world as well. The show also has Colleen Wing, who is an Asian American character and not a villain.

It's not that they can't be Asian. Rather, the portrayal of Asians only as bad guys perpetuates a stereotype. This would not be an issue if there was more of a balance between heroic and villainous Asian characters but there isn't. And yes, I know we have Elektra on DD and Colleen on IF and I'm glad we have them but they don't really make up for the lack of Asians in lead roles. Until there are more Asian heroes, it will always be problematic to depict Asians as bad guys being defeated by the white hero.

With that said, I still loved DD S2 (mostly for Matt/Elektra ) and I'm looking forward to seeing what IF does with Madame Gao. It's not exactly common to see an older, female Asian antagonist. I hear we will see a good bit of her in the first half of the show. I hope the writers really explore her character and do her justice.

 

[Darepool]

It's not that they can't be Asian. Rather, the portrayal of Asians only as bad guys perpetuates a stereotype.

Surely to god people are smarter then this. No offense Faith, but there are just stupid people in the world and we cant legislate stupidity. I'm all for more diversity and equality, but the minute politics/agendas gets it's hand in any artistic endeavor it renders it meaningless imho. It's a work of fiction and should be viewed through a different filter then just perpetuating negative stereotypes or reinforcing positive ones. That's just political propaganda.

 

[Darkraid]

At this point in time I think people who calls themselves not racists are pretty darn racists themselves. If they are not racist then why call themselves 'Geeks of color'? Why not just geeks?

Anyway, I am Asian and I think Danny Rand should be white. He is a white character to begin with! There would be a problem if he is Asian and they cast Finn Jones in the role. But this is not the same situation as Ghost in the shell where a Japanese woman is played by a white woman!

Anyways, I hate it when they change a main character's race just for the sake of it. Look at the damn Human Torch.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So, what time is the embargo up? I know iti s on the 8th, but does anyone know the exact time?

 

[Web-Head]

So, what time is the embargo up? I know iti s on the 8th, but does anyone know the exact time?

Welp... Doesn't sound like they were big fans

https://www.cnet.com/news/iron-fist-netflix-marvel-review-spoiler-free/

 

[UltimatePyro9]

Anyways, I hate it when they change a main character's race just for the sake of it. Look at the damn Human Torch.

Michael B. Jordan really wasn't bad in Fant4stic. The movie was awful, but he was one of the very, very few decent parts of it. Still, the MCU have done some race changes to their characters: Hogun, Heimdall and pretty soon, Valkyrie. And Hogun and Heimdall were really good, and I'm sure Valkyrie will be too.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Surely to god people are smarter then this. No offense Faith, but there are just stupid people in the world and we cant legislate stupidity. I'm all for more diversity and equality, but the minute politics/agendas gets it's hand in any artistic endeavor it renders it meaningless imho. It's a work of fiction and should be viewed through a different filter then just perpetuating negative stereotypes or reinforcing positive ones. That's just political propaganda.

Lol Politics and art are pretty inseparable. Comics have certainly always had a political element and there's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting them or any adaptation to reflect the world we live in. The fact that we're talking about works of fiction doesn't negate the importance of representation or the harmful effects of perpetuating stereotypes. We are talking about media that is consumed by millions, after all.

 

[Darepool]

Lol Politics and art are pretty inseparable. .

If the view is all art is inherently political, yes. If the view is art has or should have a political agenda, hell no. This should be determined by the artist, not by a bunch of people on the internet who feel they have the right to tell a person or company how they should tell their stories.

 

[Web-Head]

cnet spoiler free review https://www.cnet.com/news/iron-fist-netflix-marvel-review-spoiler-free/

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

If the view is all art is inherently political, yes. If the view is art has or should have a political agenda, hell no. This should be determined by the artist, not by a bunch of people on the internet who feel they have the right to tell a person or company how they should tell their stories.

The view is that there has always been a connection between the two. That isn't to say all art is inherently political or that there should be a political agenda. Point is, it's silly to say politics should be left out of art, particularly in this case where comics and politics are familiar bedfellows.

If you really believe fans shouldn't want or demand better representation, then I don't know what else to say. I'm glad we have fans who are willing to push for our media to reflect the world we live in.

 

[Darkraid]

Another meh.

http://www.thereelbits.com/2017/03/08/review-marvels-iron-fist-season-1-eps-1-6/

 

[Darepool]

The view is that there has always been a connection between the two. That isn't to say all art is inherently political or that there should be a political agenda. Point is, it's silly to say politics should be left out of art, particularly in this case where comics and politics are familiar bedfellows.
.

Didn't say it should be left out (that's entirely up to the creator), but that art shouldn't be dictated or strongly influenced by a body politic in terms of pandering, it's a more personal/individual mode of expression that should be judged differently then the way 'media' outlets Fox news or CNN are judged.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

Didn't say it should be left out (that's entirely up to the creator), but that art shouldn't be dictated or strongly influenced by a body politic in terms of pandering, it's a more personal/individual mode of expression that should be judged differently then the way 'media' outlets Fox news or CNN are judged.

The fans don't have the power to dictate anything. They can only demand more/better and they are certainly well within their right to do so. Lets remember that these creators are still selling a product. It's smart business to consider what fans want to see/read.

 

[Darepool]

The fans don't have the power to dictate anything They can only demand more/better and they are certainly well within their right to do so. Lets remember that these creators are still selling a product. It's smart business to consider what fans want to see/read.

Not sure that's true, but they certainly have the right to demand things, however justified, ignorant or hypocritical it may be. Cheers.

 

[Darkraid]

I think fans are pretty racist and bias against white people. Let me say that I am Asian.

Hollywood now: People of color playing a white character = praise.

White actor playing people of color = hatred and personal attacks.

White actor playing a white character = hatred and personal attacks.

Why the double standard? If a character is from a specific race, WHY can't you just let it be?

 

[Tymminator]

Nope.

When Idris Elba was revealed to be Heimdall, or when it was revealed that Tessa Thompson was going to be Valkyrie, not to mention just the rumor of Zendaya was possibly Mary Jane Watson, or even Finn Jones was shown just as a Black Storm-trooper there was plenty of hatred and personal attacks.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

I think fans are pretty racist and bias against white people. Let me say that I am Asian.

Hollywood now: People of color playing a white character = praise.

White actor playing people of color = hatred and personal attacks.

White actor playing a white character = hatred and personal attacks.

Why the double standard? If a character is from a specific race, WHY can't you just let it be?

It comes from the underrepresentation thing I mentioned awhile back. There isn't much in the way of a heroic Asian lead in the media. Marvel is getting better, considering the Inhumans show hired two Asian men and one black man as part of their main cast.

And I'd hesitate to call anyone racist or any other name.

 

[Faith_Cassidy]

I think fans are pretty racist and bias against white people. Let me say that I am Asian.

Hollywood now: People of color playing a white character = praise.

White actor playing people of color = hatred and personal attacks.

White actor playing a white character = hatred and personal attacks.

Why the double standard? If a character is from a specific race, WHY can't you just let it be?

It's unfortunate that you don't see the major differences here. A POC playing a white character is praised because of the lack of POC heroes. There's no shortage of white heroes or characters so of course no one should be outraged at tptb choosing to racebend a white character. (Even though a portion of fandom loses it when that happens.) A white actor playing POC deserves criticism for several reasons, namely because it's taking away one of the few roles for POC actors. Most people do not hate or attack white actors for playing white characters. I don't recall a backlash against Charlie Cox as DD or Krysten Ritter as JJ or Stephen Amell as Arrow or Grant Gustin as The Flash, etc. The situation with Iron Fist is unique because people campaigned for Danny to be Asian. Of course I don't condone the attacks against Finn but this is not what normally happens when a white actor is cast as a white character.

 

[Web-Head]

Another meh.

http://www.thereelbits.com/2017/03/08/review-marvels-iron-fist-season-1-eps-1-6/

That was the same review as cnets, at least pretty much.

 

[Darkraid]

It's unfortunate that you don't see the major differences here. A POC playing a white character is praised because of the lack of POC heroes. There's no shortage of white heroes or characters so of course no one should be outraged at tptb choosing to racebend a white character. (Even though a portion of fandom loses it when that happens.) A white actor playing POC deserves criticism for several reasons, namely because it's taking away one of the few roles for POC actors. Most people do not hate or attack white actors for playing white characters. I don't recall a backlash against Charlie Cox as DD or Krysten Ritter as JJ or Stephen Amell as Arrow or Grant Gustin as The Flash, etc. The situation with Iron Fist is unique because people campaigned for Danny to be Asian. Of course I don't condone the attacks against Finn but this is not what normally happens when a white actor is cast as a white character.

If they want to make Danny Asian then he has absolutely no reason to be in New York. Defenders wouldn't even exist.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

If they want to make Danny Asian then he has absolutely no reason to be in New York. Defenders wouldn't even exist.

I'm confused. What does that statement even mean?

 

[2kt09]

...NYC has plenty of asian populated areas and especially more than just Chinese folk down in Chinatown.