BvS Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread. - Part 2

[Boy Scout]

I hope this movie to become a true successor of TDK giving us the batman who didn't retired and making it memorable in coming decades .

If there's any movie I'd want to become the next TDK, it's this one. The only superhero film that's come close is TWS.

EDIT: And DOFP, I suppose. I really, really liked it, but WS was better IMO.

 

[The Shape]

What do you think this thread is for?

What do you think this thread is for? Discussing the merits or faults of MOS? Unless I've misread the title, that is not, specifically, the purpose of this thread.

You hate the title of the thread and (unless I'm misunderstanding you, which is totally possible) that every time you come in here, we're discussing MOS and whether or not it's a good movie. It sounds like you're complaining about people complaining when that's kind of the point of this thread.

Again, I might have misunderstood what you were saying, and if so, I apologize. Either way, I wasn't specifically trying to call you out or target you. Your post, as I understood it, was just a recent and relevant example of something that I've always found slightly frustrating.

You're right, I do think the title of this thread is silly and overdramatic. This could easily be titled the "BvS Skeptics Thread" or something similar and still serve the exact same purpose.

Anyway, I also said that every time I come in here, the discussion has circled back to whether MOS was good or not. That is not me "complaining about people complaining". In fact, I didn't even specify or state whether I supported or hated the film. Evidently, you feel this thread is somewhat of a safe haven for people to voice their frustrations and distaste towards MOS, and the thread was essentially created to bash Snyder and Goyer, but has that not been discussed ad nauseam in almost every thread in this forum?

I understand there isn't much to discuss other than MOS leading into this film, but based on the title/subject of this thread, it'd be nice to see those who are truly worried to express what can go wrong in BvS, what they'd like Snyder/Goyer to do differently this time, what it would take to get them excited for this film, etc. Instead, the discussion has yet again devolved into whether MOS deserved a sequel, whether audiences truly liked it, whether it's better/worse than the Donner films, and all the same crap.

If the true crux of this thread boils down to "I'm not excited about BvS because Man of Steel sucks and I don't like Snyder or Goyer", then this thread shouldn't really exist because that topic has been covered rather thoroughly in dozens of threads (specifically in the All Things Batman and Superman Thread) over the past year.

 

[Boy Scout]

What do you think this thread is for? Discussing the merits or faults of MOS? Unless I've misread the title, that is not, specifically, the purpose of this thread.

Like I said in my first response: this thread has become a place where people who aren't necessarily fond of that movie can visit if they want to either express their disappointment with it (without ridicule) or use it to justify/explain their more negative feelings towards DOJ (which features the exact same creative team). No matter which way you slice it, MOS is 100% relevant to the discussion.

You're right, I do think the title of this thread is silly and overdramatic. This could easily be titled the "BvS Skeptics Thread" or something similar and still serve the exact same purpose.

Fair enough.

Anyway, I also said that every time I come in here, the discussion has circled back to whether MOS was good or not.

Which, again, is a relevant topic.

That is not me "complaining about people complaining".

Then it appears I've misunderstood you. I apologize.

Evidently, you feel this thread is somewhat of a safe haven for people to voice their frustrations and distaste towards MOS...

Yes. However, that's not its only purpose.

and the thread was essentially created to bash Snyder and Goyer,

I never said anything like that.

but has that not been discussed ad nauseam in almost every thread in this forum?

Hasn't everything?

Besides: every time someone brings it up in another thread, they're met with condescending responses. If people want to talk about why the film was so dissatisfying, but aren't able to do so productively in places where such a discussion might be relevant, why can't those people have their own thread? If you think it's unnecessary (and I can understand why you would), you can just avoid it.

I understand there isn't much to discuss other than MOS leading into this film, but based on the title/subject of this thread, it'd be nice to see those who are truly worried to express what can go wrong in BvS, what they'd like Snyder/Goyer to do differently this time, what it would take to get them excited for this film, etc.

I've seen those discussions happen, with only passing references to MOS.

A suggestion: perhaps you should actively attempt to steer the conversation in a more appropriate direction next time. It'd be worth a shot.

 

[Visualiza]

You're right, I do think the title of this thread is silly and overdramatic. This could easily be titled the "BvS Skeptics Thread" or something similar and still serve the exact same purpose.

Yet that still wouldn't satisfy you, would it?

If the true crux of this thread boils down to "I'm not excited about BvS because Man of Steel sucks and I don't like Snyder or Goyer", then this thread shouldn't really exist because that topic has been covered rather thoroughly in dozens of threads (specifically in the All Things Batman and Superman Thread) over the past year.

For every one example of negativity you could cite, there are dozens more of the zealous praise that everything about this movie receives, so I have to ask, what's your point? You've got several pages of threads here to gush about MoS and its eventual sequel, so if it annoys you so much, then...stop exposing yourself to it? It's certainly easier for you to do that (this is the only thread on the front page with a negative slant out of about 30 others that are either neutral of positive) than it is for those who are apprehensive about the movie, yet here you are trying to silence people in the one place where it should be considered acceptable and on topic to express trepidation.

I don't know what else to tell you other than the fact that this happens all throughout these boards, no matter the slant of the topic at hand. If that's the way you feel, we may as well close the overwhelming majority of the threads here. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, after all.

Ever visit the Cavill thread? Going by your criteria, it's a repetitive cesspool of idolatry and praise, always circling back to either how handsome he is, how perfect he looks as Superman, and how he just exemplifies every quality of the character. Go in that thread and rant about how people need to quit discussing the same thing, because I can assure you that it goes on (and completely unchallenged) much more frequently than it does here.

Sorry, but a thread doesn't need to be closed because people like you and dnno1 have an ax to grind. At the end of the day, the problem isn't repetition or anything of the sort, it's that you're intolerant of people saying things that you don't like, irrespective of whether or not those things are inflammatory or not. Seriously guys, and I'm speaking to whomsoever this applies to, if you have a problem with contrarian opinions to the extent where you feel they should be completely silenced, then you may as well start a cult, because that's about the only environment where you'll get an exclusionary circle-jerk devoid of "haters" and non-believers. There's enough room at this table for everyone to have a seat.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Yep. They also thought they would really like the film based on the trailers.

Totally. The trailers where, IMO, totally misleading.

I think it's funny that MOS supporters, who have a history of complaining about MOS detractors derailing threads with their criticisms of the movie (legitimate or otherwise), come in here (a thread that has become a place where people who weren't necessarily fond of MOS can come to vent their frustrations or express trepidation for DOJ based on their experience with MOS) to complain about people complaining.

Everyone has the right to post where they want, when they want, and I'm by no means suggesting that MOS supporters, as a whole, are unwelcome here; however, their contributions, by and large, have been the equivalent of going into the Henry Cavill thread and complaining about people praising his acting 24/7.

Honestly, what else would it be about? The biggest things that makes people concerned about SvB are "Zack Snyder" and "David Goyer". . . and the reason they make people concerned is "Man of Steel". So, its inevitably going to boil down to an argument over whether Man of Steel was any good or not.

Exactly.

If the true crux of this thread boils down to "I'm not excited about BvS because Man of Steel sucks and I don't like Snyder or Goyer", then this thread shouldn't really exist because that topic has been covered rather thoroughly in dozens of threads (specifically in the All Things Batman and Superman Thread) over the past year.

I just don't get this attitude.

I mean, if I was sick of people complaining about a movie I loved, I would continually point people in the direction of this thread if they wanted to complain. I wouldn't want to get rid of it so that the complainers had no place to vent.

Like I said in my first response: this thread has become a place where people who aren't necessarily fond of that movie can visit if they want to either express their disappointment with it (without ridicule) or use it to justify/explain their more negative feelings towards DOJ (which features the exact same creative team). No matter which way you slice it, MOS is 100% relevant to the discussion.

Besides: every time someone brings it up in another thread, they're met with condescending responses. If people want to talk about why the film was so dissatisfying, but aren't able to do so productively in places where such a discussion might be relevant, why can't those people have their own thread? If you think it's unnecessary (and I can understand why you would), you can just avoid it..

Totally agreed. This is one of the only threads I am frequenting at the moment, because it's the only one I feel like I can freely discuss my worries.

The reasons for my worries ARE how I feel about MOS. So of course bits of that will come up in discussion.

For every one example of negativity you could cite, there are dozens more of the zealous praise that everything about this movie receives, so I have to ask, what's your point? You've got several pages of threads here to gush about MoS and its eventual sequel, so if it annoys you so much, then...stop exposing yourself to it? It's certainly easier for you to do that (this is the only thread on the front page with a negative slant out of about 30 others that are either neutral of positive) than it is for those who are apprehensive about the movie, yet here you are trying to silence people in the one place where it should be considered acceptable and on topic to express trepidation.

I don't know what else to tell you other than the fact that this happens all throughout these boards, no matter the slant of the topic at hand. If that's the way you feel, we may as well close the overwhelming majority of the threads here. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, after all.

Ever visit the Cavill thread? Going by your criteria, it's a repetitive cesspool of idolatry and praise, always circling back to either how handsome he is, how perfect he looks as Superman, and how he just exemplifies every quality of the character. Go in that thread and rant about how people need to quit discussing the same thing, because I can assure you that it goes on (and completely unchallenged) much more frequently than it does here.

Sorry, but a thread doesn't need to be closed because people like you and dnno1 have an ax to grind. At the end of the day, the problem isn't repetition or anything of the sort, it's that you're intolerant of people saying things that you don't like, irrespective of whether or not those things are inflammatory or not. Seriously guys, and I'm speaking to whomsoever this applies to, if you have a problem with contrarian opinions to the extent where you feel they should be completely silenced, then you may as well start a cult, because that's about the only environment where you'll get an exclusionary circle-jerk devoid of "haters" and non-believers. There's enough room at this table for everyone to have a seat.

 

[lc23]

I'm curious, hopefuldreamer. Did Henry Cavill himself do something to put you off or is it a case of him being Superman in a movie that displeased you so much?

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I'm curious, hopefuldreamer. Did Henry Cavill himself do something to put you off or is it a case of him being Superman in a movie that displeased you so much?

Huh?

I love Henry and I loved him as Superman...

 

[lc23]

Huh?

I love Henry and I loved him as Superman...

How come I don't see you in either of the Henry Cavill threads then? I don't really see you mention him anywhere (though that could be because I'm not tracking your posts ).

 

[MrsKent26]

True that good or bad, Superman and Batman are in better positions that WW. There's Black Widow to look at as an example. I think audiences have responded well to her. Maybe moreso than characters like Storm and Jean, or Invisible Woman in their respective films. Not that I want or expect a Black Widow film to happen anytime soon, but it wouldn't surprise me if Marvel decided to make one.

I wouldn't be surprised either. They've done well with that character. I never followed any BW comics and didn't care much about her until seeing her in Avengers and TWS.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

How come I don't see you in either of the Henry Cavill threads then? I don't really see you mention him anywhere (though that could be because I'm not tracking your posts ).

I used to be in there all the time.

TBH, ever since the movie came out, i've felt a bit segregated though. Cause I kept getting attacked for not loving the film. So I tend to lurk a lot of threads but only post in a few like this one!

 

[lc23]

^Ah, okay. People were attacking you for not liking MoS in the Henry Cavill Appreciation thread? Really? Where was I during this?

Well, I really hope the new film somehow manages to exceed all our expectations and that you also manage to enjoy it and can feel welcomed back into the fold.

 

[hunteri]

I was excited about BvS but then all the casting started taking place and I re-watch Man of Steel again. Don't get me wrong I still enjoy it.

MoS I enjoyed it but it has not story. It had some great scenes and dialogue which was stitched together to make a movie (but not a story, it was like a music video). All it needed was a few extra scenes to make it great movie instead of a good movie.

Spoiler

Clark should have tried to save his dad (something...anything)

. Clark should have tried saving civilians while fighting Zod (couple of scenes in the middle of him trying and Zod not allowing it).

My MoS complaints is partially why I am not excited about BvS. If this was a direct sequel to MoS, I would be more excited because i want to see the characters grow. Now we are going to have BvS, its going to another all action movie and no story.

Also the casting, I am sorry to say but Ben A and Gal G as Batman and Wonder Woman is weak casting. MoS has such great talented actors/actresses and it was a dream cast. Everybody keeps tell me how great Ben A is, when I ask whats his best acting job. The Town and Good will Hunting (both angry Boston guys). He plays himself in those movies (or every movie). I don't want to see Ben A. I want to see Bruce Wayne. Argo was probably his most weakest acting job and the movie was OK (still can't believe it won the Oscar). As for Gal, I love the Fast and Furious movies and she was the last person I expected to see as Wonder Woman. She is also a bad actress in those movies. Don't get me wrong she is HOT, but not Wonder Woman hot. She NEEDS to bulk up, become more athletic looking, I really believe we going to end up with a skinny WW who can't act.

Anyways, I am glad this forum exists for me to vent a little about my worries for BvS.

PS I used to be a huge Ben A fan back in the day and defended him a lot, but he kept making ****ting movies.

 

[Boom]

He received a BAFTA nomination for his performance in Argo.

Whether or not he played himself in The Town is beside the point. Plenty of actors make careers out of "playing themselves." His performance in that movie was still solid.

 

[hunteri]

He received a BAFTA nomination for his performance in Argo.

Whether or not he played himself in The Town is beside the point. Plenty of actors make careers out of "playing themselves." His performance in that movie was still solid.

He can Win an Oscar for acting in Argo but to me he was the weakest part of the whole movie. Every time he came on screen I didn't see Tony Mendez, I saw Ben A. Everybody else in that movie did such a fantastic job acting like there "Real Person", he just brought the entire thing down.

Yes alot of actors make a career our of "playing themselves" and I enjoy there movies alot. Tom Cruise, Will Smith, Harrison Ford....list goes on. Then you have actors like Christian Bale, Leo D, Tom Hanks....they make you forget you are watching them. I don't want Tom Cruise to play Batman, that's exactly how I feel on Ben A casting.

Note: Django and Life of Pie were a better movie in 2013

 

[Nemeres]

With many of the decisions made by the MoS-team, I'm not all surprised by the least bit that the film was so divisive. Superman has some hardcore fans that grew up in different eras and have their own interpretation of who and what Superman should be and MoS went against, but at the same time, went for some of the things as far as mythology is concerned . They also injected the modern-era of comic books into MoS and updated not only his look, but his attitude, which was important.

You said it best. MoS simply REVIVED Superman and when you revive a legend and try new things, chances are most people will go against what's fresh and new and more importantly, different. But as far as the film being divisive, Snyder gave us a drop-dead-SERIOUS Superman that didn't hold anything back. MoS looked classic in the face and flirted to be different.

Man of Steel, in a ton of ways, was the beginning of trying new things. Now that they know their audience, I'm sure the studio, Snyder and whoever else heard some things and now it's all the matter of tightening things up. I'm confident BvS will still be in the same tone as MoS, but tightened up. I'm confident in this film being damn good.

Fair enough, man. I just...

IMHO and the way I've viewed things over the course of the year, is that besides the critics who didn't get their classic Superman with romance, humor,wit and colors, the hardcore Superman fanbase were the ones that were mostly outspoken, mainly the older, generational fans. But as far as the general audience is concered, I've always saw it as the GA liking Man of Steel a good bunch.

...have no idea of the underlined is so easy to let go of. It seems like such a sad thing to admit and accept, a Superman movie that lacks those things. To each his own, I suppose. I'm also hoping for the best with BVS.

 

[Jekecy]

Yes alot of actors make a career our of "playing themselves" and I enjoy there movies alot. Tom Cruise, Will Smith, Harrison Ford....list goes on. Then you have actors like Christian Bale, Leo D, Tom Hanks....they make you forget you are watching them. I don't want Tom Cruise to play Batman, that's exactly how I feel on Ben A casting.

Well that was a terrible list of examples. Aside from a few roles over their entire lifespan of a career, none of those actors are known to be particular chameleons. Talented and versatile, but to the point where you literally forget you're watching a known and accomplished actor. I don't know, that sounds like a stretch to me.

I can count on one hand the amount of actors capable of pulling that off, and neither of those three make it.

 

[Travesty]

Well that was a terrible list of examples. Aside from a few roles over their entire lifespan of a career, none of those actors are known to be particular chameleons. Talented and versatile, but to the point where you literally forget you're watching a known and accomplished actor. I don't know, that sounds like a stretch to me.

I can count on one hand the amount of actors capable of pulling that off, and neither of those three make it.

Yeah, I agree. Off the top of my head, I can only think of Oldman and DDL. I'm sure they may be a few more.

 

[regwec]

I can't say that I have ever had the pleasure of forgetting that I was watching "angry fat baby" DiCaprio.

 

[bluerayer]

I can't say that I have ever had the pleasure of forgetting that I was watching "angry fat baby" DiCaprio.

I dont know what it is about Di Caprio that makes me fall asleep but i do. Every movie with him i have ever seen. Its just...I dunno, Titanic, Gangs of New York, The man with the iron mask, The Aviator, Django. All of these movies i fell asleep to. Theres a theme here, and that theme is Di Caprio.

Sure, he may have proven himself to be good actor by now and i dont have a problem with him personally or anything. It's just...He's so boring i guess.

Edit: I forgot about What's Eating Gilbert Grape. Di Caprio was very good in that movie and i didnt fell asleep to it.

 

[Travesty]

I like him.

 

[bluerayer]

He seems to be a cool enough dude, i dont dislike him, just as i said, his movies put me to sleep. Maybe im just getting old. lol If a movie is 3 hours long...zzz.

 

[Mysteryman]

I'm curious, hopefuldreamer. Did Henry Cavill himself do something to put you off or is it a case of him being Superman in a movie that displeased you so much?

I just wanted to say that I never got the impression Hopeful didn't like Henry.
I think that she wanted to see more hope and optimism in both the character of Clark and the story itself .
That is just a guess on my part .

 

[Joeyjojo72]

lol. he cant help that man!

 

[Doppelganger]

With many of the decisions made by the MoS-team, I'm not all surprised by the least bit that the film was so divisive. Superman has some hardcore fans that grew up in different eras and have their own interpretation of who and what Superman should be and MoS went against, but at the same time, went for some of the things as far as mythology is concerned . They also injected the modern-era of comic books into MoS and updated not only his look, but his attitude, which was important.

You said it best. MoS simply REVIVED Superman and when you revive a legend and try new things, chances are most people will go against what's fresh and new and more importantly, different. But as far as the film being divisive, Snyder gave us a drop-dead-SERIOUS Superman that didn't hold anything back. MoS looked classic in the face and flirted to be different.

Man of Steel, in a ton of ways, was the beginning of trying new things. Now that they know their audience, I'm sure the studio, Snyder and whoever else heard some things and now it's all the matter of tightening things up. I'm confident BvS will still be in the same tone as MoS, but tightened up. I'm confident in this film being damn good.

I don't think Superman was in the need to be revived. That suggest that there was something wrong with Superman so far that somehow needed fixing. Furthermore, new doesn't equal good. Especially if that new flies in the face of your marketing and audience demand. Yeah you can convince us that we wanted to see this new stuff all along but MoS didn't.

Where you are confident in the upcoming film I am concerned that the creative team doesn't have a coherent artistic vision that stays faithful to the source material.

I had enough of these dark, modern, post-9/11, self-doubting, and internally conflicted superheroes. I mean if it had been done well (like TDK) that would be alright to but it wasn't. Frankly I doubt this is the way to approach Space-Jesus the symbol of everything good and great, the imbodiement of our potential.

 

[Mysteryman]

I do not know about revived,but I do think for the movies, we needed a Superman for the 21st Century and now we have him.