Is anyone not excited about Spider-man in the MCU?

Something just occurred to me. Secret identities don't exist yet in the MCU. Does anyone else think it's likely that Peter will have one because of the government rounding up superheroes? If the Civil War doesn't end in Captain America, it could definitely add more of a reason for him to keep his identity hidden.

Using the political climate from Civil War as a backdrop, and possibly other MCU heroes and villains, the movie has a lot of potential. And, from this angle, it will also sell a lot better than otherwise, since it will have major connections to Captain America.
 
They won't retell Spider-mans origins again, and they won't make the same mistakes/hit all the same beats as the Sony films. Also audiences want to see Spider-man, you're right, but they want to see the Spider-man that they are familiar with. That would be Peter Parker.

Yup, they don't want an origin story here. And with Miles an Origin would be required. There is no way of doing Miles without Peter first unless you cut Peter completely out, and given all the other characters associated with Parker that would be one of the biggest mistakes they can make after this deal.

I have no doubt Miles will eventually be introduced, but that has to come after plenty of things with Parker are set up in the MCU.
 
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Yup, they don't want an origin story here. And with Miles an Origin would be required.
and Miles' origin requires Peter Parker to die first. I'd say the chances for MM are extremly low
 
and Miles' origin requires Peter Parker to die first. I'd say the chances for MM are extremly low

I would say almost non-existent lol.. Everyone clamoring for his introduction anytime soon is setting themselves up for a world of disappointment.
 
I already said I wouldn't readdress the issue because my point stands well reasoned and thus needs no further defense against a repetition of identical opposing claims. However, I will briefly renege on my assertion to point out that you offer a rebuttal that is based upon the erroneous use of a generalities. You contend that the "universally held position" is that Peter Parker is Spider-Man. This is fallacious on two counts.

In other words "I'm right, you're wrong, nuff said." Your whole post pretty much reads like that.

Okay then.

1) You have no modicum of power to confirm such a baseless claim about the universal acceptance of any particular position. Such a quantity is unknowable to an ordinary individual. One may only best offer an inference based on deductive or inductive reasoning. However, to contend that anything is universally accepted is naive at best, and intellectually weak at worst.

Explain how I have no evidence to make such claim. Walk up to the average person on the street in any country that's seen Spider-Man and ask them what Spider-Man's name is, there's a 99.999% chance they'll say Peter Parker. Try it on the kids as well and see if they bring up Miles more than Peter. The identity is as synonymous with the character as the identity of Bruce Wayne is with Batman and that's a fact. That's not to say other characters haven't taken the mantle in the past, but that doesn't change the fact there was an definitive identity that everything eventually went back to.

Your argument could be just as applicable to Ben Reilly and Kaine. I mean, what's the difference?

2). If one were to ask a person in Japan who Spider-Man is, the resultant answers would likely be Takuya Yamashiro or Yu Komori: two separate incarnations of Spider-Man in Japanese pop culture. The multiplicity of Spider-Man representations in Japan is alone sufficient to dismantle the gross assumption of a "universal" position. That Japan itself has TWO versions of Spider-Man that are distinct from the original version of the character, speaks volumes to the overall failing of your argument. Aside from nullifying your flaccid reasoning, my point is further demonstrated by the fact that the Japanese renditions of Spider-Man were distinct for their generations (note, the Yu Kamori version of Spider-Man appeared in 1970, where as the Takuya Yamashiro version appeared eight years later in 1978, a sufficient gap of time for children who grew up reading Yu Kamori to have a different idea of Spider-Man than those who were growing up with Takuya Yamashiro).

I think you're mistaking the presence of another mantle with the reality of there being a definitive mantle. The Japanese made their own version, sure, as did the Indians, but that doesn't necessarily translate to that being the version they associate Spider-Man. The presence of a Japanese Spider-Man doesn't mean they don't know who the universal Spider-Man is. There's no evidence of that being the case. Spidey has been immensely popular in Japan period, both before and after the mecha show. TASM 2, just for one example, broke box office records in Japan. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&country=JP&id=amazingspiderman2.htm

Also as a bonus, here as some photos with Japanese kids and Andrew:
article-2592971-1CB5811900000578-190_634x800.jpg

6b1a6aa7a7dbae0dff799be542c40be9.jpg


To those kids, Peter Parker is Spider-Man. Who are you to say that isn't the case? This is practically the same thing you did on the previous page, listing 2 random photos with very little context and acted as if that by itself was major evidence for anything.

Finally, no one here is arguing those Japanese versions should replace Peter Parker in the MCU. The problem isn't that other versions exist, or that a small minority out there may prefer those other versions, but that those other versions are no excuse to exclude Peter from the MCU. Peter is far more deserving to be in the MCU, for reasons already stated, and it would simply be insulting to wait all this time to get that and it not being delivered, for reasons already stated.

Not to mention it would be counter-intuitive, from both a marketing and narrative standpoint. Starting with Peter allows for both Peter and Miles to exist in the MCU (eventually) just as they are in the comics. Starting with Miles does not allow room for the same to occur, as both characters would have to be altered. Because as I stated before, Miles needs Peter in order to exist.



So again, you can't reasonably assert that there is a definitive version of Spider-Man. The character exists in varied, but equally valid forms that have distinct meaning for different generations (and cultures).

1. Regarding the bolded part, I just did.
2. Regarding the underlined part, I just explained how that fact is not mutually exclusive from the fact there is a definitive "universal" Spider-Man.



One more counter point

1) I already demonstrated, with an actual source and not my anecdotal position, that John Stewart, from a pop culture perspective, was the more commonly recognized Green Lantern at the time that Warner Bros. was releasing the Green Lantern film. It is true that Hal has recently been featured in his own cartoon. As a result of said cartoon, it is likely that a new generation will grow up with Hal as their Green Lantern, but again, all you did was prove my point.

The Justice League animated series was on the air a decade ago. Meaning that kids who watched that show are now in their late teens or full grown adults. The kids who watched the recent Green Lantern cartoon, will likely have been too young or not yet born back when Justice League was on the air. Consequently, that means that the rendition of Green Lantern that was relevant for that generation, will not be relevant for this generation. Thank you for further proving my point and modeling the exact paradigm shift I have previously described.

All your linked proved was that some people thought Green Lantern was black. Apart from skin color, what does that have to do with the content of the character?

I already explained in my previous post how JL John Stewart wasn't really John Stewart past the name and looks, and marine background that was barely-if-ever explored (and even then, Hal has an army background as well). In terms of character, he had a lot more in common with Hal Jordan than the comic John Stewart version that hadn't done anything impressive at that particular time. They did a similar thing with the Flash in that show, calling him Wally West but practically making him Barry Allen the forensic scientist in Central City. I would argue a lot of those fans were bigger fans of Hal Jordan than they realized, as a result.

By contrast, you can't do the same with Miles. Comes from a darker background with part of his family being criminals, his uncle being a straight up evil. To him, Peter was his Uncle Ben. Peter is the one who taught him with great power comes great responsibility.

Unless you want the films to write Miles as if he was Peter. In that case, what's the point? Why not just make Peter black? It's fine if you want that, but just say it then. Don't go on and on about how starting with Miles would be a better idea than it really is.

You talk a lot about the importance of Miles, but you essentially want to change the core of both Peter AND Miles. What you're advocating isn't even Miles. It's practically a new version in almost everything but name.

With that, I now withdraw from further address to you on the topic, as it would be fruitless and would derail the thread. My point is made, clearly and with evidence. Your weak argument only enforced the validity of my own argument. There is little else to discuss. So let the thread return to a discussion about the MCU Spider-Man.

Sure thing.

And while you like to brag about your point being made, I'd also like to point out the fact you've dodged almost all of my points from the last points. Including how John doesn't really need Hal like Miles needs Peter, how John never really replaced Hal in the first place, how Hal defined the mantle, how neither Hal nor John have been as associated with the GL name as Peter is with the Spider-Man name just like Batman and Superman.
 
I would say almost non-existent lol.. Everyone clamoring for his introduction anytime soon is setting themselves up for a world of disappointment.

Judging by their plans in the comics, it appears they want Peter and Miles to co-exist.

If that's the case, they wouldn't even need to kill Peter when he's brought in the MCU. Plus it would be a great opportunity to let Peter grow past his 20's.

Of course, this should happen more down the line.
 
Judging by their plans in the comics, it appears they want Peter and Miles to co-exist.

If that's the case, they wouldn't even need to kill Peter when he's brought in the MCU. Plus it would be a great opportunity to let Peter grow past his 20's.

Of course, this should happen more down the line.

I agree with this and it's the most profitable down the line as well.
 
In other words "I'm right, you're wrong, nuff said." Your whole post pretty much reads like that.

Okay then.



Explain how I have no evidence to make such claim. Walk up to the average person on the street in any country that's seen Spider-Man and ask them what Spider-Man's name is, there's a 99.999% chance they'll say Peter Parker. Try it on the kids as well and see if they bring up Miles more than Peter. The identity is as synonymous with the character as the identity of Bruce Wayne is with Batman and that's a fact. That's not to say other characters haven't taken the mantle in the past, but that doesn't change the fact there was an definitive identity that everything eventually went back to.

Your argument could be just as applicable to Ben Reilly and Kaine. I mean, what's the difference?



I think you're mistaking the presence of another mantle with the reality of there being a definitive mantle. The Japanese made their own version, sure, as did the Indians, but that doesn't necessarily translate to that being the version they associate Spider-Man. The presence of a Japanese Spider-Man doesn't mean they don't know who the universal Spider-Man is. There's no evidence of that being the case. Spidey has been immensely popular in Japan period, both before and after the mecha show. TASM 2, just for one example, broke box office records in Japan. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&country=JP&id=amazingspiderman2.htm

Also as a bonus, here as some photos with Japanese kids and Andrew:
article-2592971-1CB5811900000578-190_634x800.jpg

6b1a6aa7a7dbae0dff799be542c40be9.jpg


To those kids, Peter Parker is Spider-Man. Who are you to say that isn't the case? This is practically the same thing you did on the previous page, listing 2 random photos with very little context and acted as if that by itself was major evidence for anything.

Finally, no one here is arguing those Japanese versions should replace Peter Parker in the MCU. The problem isn't that other versions exist, or that a small minority out there may prefer those other versions, but that those other versions are no excuse to exclude Peter from the MCU. Peter is far more deserving to be in the MCU, for reasons already stated, and it would simply be insulting to wait all this time to get that and it not being delivered, for reasons already stated.

Not to mention it would be counter-intuitive, from both a marketing and narrative standpoint. Starting with Peter allows for both Peter and Miles to exist in the MCU (eventually) just as they are in the comics. Starting with Miles does not allow room for the same to occur, as both characters would have to be altered. Because as I stated before, Miles needs Peter in order to exist.





1. Regarding the bolded part, I just did.
2. Regarding the underlined part, I just explained how that fact is not mutually exclusive from the fact there is a definitive "universal" Spider-Man.





All your linked proved was that some people thought Green Lantern was black. Apart from skin color, what does that have to do with the content of the character?

I already explained in my previous post how JL John Stewart wasn't really John Stewart past the name and looks, and marine background that was barely-if-ever explored (and even then, Hal has an army background as well). In terms of character, he had a lot more in common with Hal Jordan than the comic John Stewart version that hadn't done anything impressive at that particular time. They did a similar thing with the Flash in that show, calling him Wally West but practically making him Barry Allen the forensic scientist in Central City. I would argue a lot of those fans were bigger fans of Hal Jordan than they realized, as a result.

By contrast, you can't do the same with Miles. Comes from a darker background with part of his family being criminals, his uncle being a straight up evil. To him, Peter was his Uncle Ben. Peter is the one who taught him with great power comes great responsibility.

Unless you want the films to write Miles as if he was Peter. In that case, what's the point? Why not just make Peter black? It's fine if you want that, but just say it then. Don't go on and on about how starting with Miles would be a better idea than it really is.

You talk a lot about the importance of Miles, but you essentially want to change the core of both Peter AND Miles. What you're advocating isn't even Miles. It's practically a new version in almost everything but name.



Sure thing.

And while you like to brag about your point being made, I'd also like to point out the fact you've dodged almost all of my points from the last points. Including how John doesn't really need Hal like Miles needs Peter, how John never really replaced Hal in the first place, how Hal defined the mantle, how neither Hal nor John have been as associated with the GL name as Peter is with the Spider-Man name just like Batman and Superman.

Boom. This entire post, thumbs up, five stars, says everything I ever could and more. :up:
 
I am happy, but I have to admit, another reboot bothers me. I mean, yes, it has to be done, but damn. Three separate franchises in the course of 15 years. The new series better last like 8 movies.

I would be cool with a One-Shot showing his origins, if need be.
 
I am happy, but I have to admit, another reboot bothers me. I mean, yes, it has to be done, but damn. Three separate franchises in the course of 15 years. The new series better last like 8 movies.

I would be cool with a One-Shot showing his origins, if need be.

Hadn't thought about that, but that would be pretty cool.
 
I just thought of this, but I kinda hope he shows up in an episode of SHIELD.

If they're casting young, I'm assuming the actor won't be too A-list, possibly having done only a few films. That means between now and Civil War, they can afford him for at least an episode of the show, same way they got Jamie Alexander for an episode.

Given the show's track record for setting up and expanding on upcoming films, I think it would be a decent idea. They've already given a brief introduction to the Inhumans.
 
I am happy, but I have to admit, another reboot bothers me. I mean, yes, it has to be done, but damn. Three separate franchises in the course of 15 years.

it didn't have to be done if disney could've just settled for the amazing spiderman 3 on july 28th 2017 instead of a reboot.
 
Why not just make Peter black? It's fine if you want that, but just say it then. Don't go on and on about how starting with Miles would be a better idea than it really is.

You talk a lot about the importance of Miles, but you essentially want to change the core of both Peter AND Miles. What you're advocating isn't even Miles. It's practically a new version in almost everything but name.
This entire post is incredible, but this moment captured something I've always struggled to express.

There are people out there who stand on the outside of our interests, who haven't read a thousand comic books or hit every midnight release, who applaud loudly when Marvel makes Thor a woman or Captain America black or Colossus gay. They talk about how it's breaking down barriers or say things like "Welcome to the 21st century" as though these sort of things are automatically an improvement. If you even think about expressing frustration over a pointless change to one of your favorite characters, you'll be called racist, sexist, homophobic, whatever.

It's like they have some checklist, and when they look at a superhero team they need to take roll call.

"Gay character?"
"Here."
"Female character?"
"Here."
"Hindu character?"
"Here."
"Okay, this team is good to go!"

They don't understand that THEY are the ones who are prejudiced. If being a minority or transgender suddenly makes you care about a superhero, than you haven't valued the content of their character. You've judged them by things they can't control.

So when people talk about casting Miles Morales as though his tiny history has earned precedence over Peter Parker, it makes me angry because I know many who want it to happen have never subscribed to a comic in their life, much less even read one with Miles in it. They just want a black Spider-Man. And it's not a two way street. All the people who made fun of fans who were upset because Johnny and Sue Storm apparently have different moms now would go absolutely insane if a white person was cast as Black Panther.

To be clear, I'm not accusing Arach Knight of wanting Miles to be in the MCU for that reason but, the truth is, his only chance of getting there would be due to that sort of thinking. It would be Marvel's attempt to appeal to that crowd by spitting in the face of Peter Parker fans and saying "Screw the dozens of amazing stories Parker has yet to have done on the big screen, we're using the black kid."
 
This entire post is incredible, but this moment captured something I've always struggled to express.

There are people out there who stand on the outside of our interests, who haven't read a thousand comic books or hit every midnight release, who applaud loudly when Marvel makes Thor a woman or Captain America black or Colossus gay. They talk about how it's breaking down barriers or say things like "Welcome to the 21st century" as though these sort of things are automatically an improvement. If you even think about expressing frustration over a pointless change to one of your favorite characters, you'll be called racist, sexist, homophobic, whatever.

It's like they have some checklist, and when they look at a superhero team they need to take roll call.

"Gay character?"
"Here."
"Female character?"
"Here."
"Hindu character?"
"Here."
"Okay, this team is good to go!"

They don't understand that THEY are the ones who are prejudiced. If being a minority or transgender suddenly makes you care about a superhero, than you haven't valued the content of their character. You've judged them by things they can't control.

So when people talk about casting Miles Morales as though his tiny history has earned precedence over Peter Parker, it makes me angry because I know many who want it to happen have never subscribed to a comic in their life, much less even read one with Miles in it. They just want a black Spider-Man. And it's not a two way street. All the people who made fun of fans who were upset because Johnny and Sue Storm apparently have different moms now would go absolutely insane if a white person was cast as Black Panther.

To be clear, I'm not accusing Arach Knight of wanting Miles to be in the MCU for that reason but, the truth is, his only chance of getting there would be due to that sort of thinking. It would be Marvel's attempt to appeal to that crowd by spitting in the face of Peter Parker fans and saying "Screw the dozens of amazing stories Parker has yet to have done on the big screen, we're using the black kid."

QFT :up:
 
This entire post is incredible, but this moment captured something I've always struggled to express.

There are people out there who stand on the outside of our interests, who haven't read a thousand comic books or hit every midnight release, who applaud loudly when Marvel makes Thor a woman or Captain America black or Colossus gay. They talk about how it's breaking down barriers or say things like "Welcome to the 21st century" as though these sort of things are automatically an improvement. If you even think about expressing frustration over a pointless change to one of your favorite characters, you'll be called racist, sexist, homophobic, whatever.

It's like they have some checklist, and when they look at a superhero team they need to take roll call.

"Gay character?"
"Here."
"Female character?"
"Here."
"Hindu character?"
"Here."
"Okay, this team is good to go!"

They don't understand that THEY are the ones who are prejudiced. If being a minority or transgender suddenly makes you care about a superhero, than you haven't valued the content of their character. You've judged them by things they can't control.

So when people talk about casting Miles Morales as though his tiny history has earned precedence over Peter Parker, it makes me angry because I know many who want it to happen have never subscribed to a comic in their life, much less even read one with Miles in it. They just want a black Spider-Man. And it's not a two way street. All the people who made fun of fans who were upset because Johnny and Sue Storm apparently have different moms now would go absolutely insane if a white person was cast as Black Panther.

To be clear, I'm not accusing Arach Knight of wanting Miles to be in the MCU for that reason but, the truth is, his only chance of getting there would be due to that sort of thinking. It would be Marvel's attempt to appeal to that crowd by spitting in the face of Peter Parker fans and saying "Screw the dozens of amazing stories Parker has yet to have done on the big screen, we're using the black kid."


Utter pedantic entitled un-self aware fanboy nonsense right here. I see the martyr act from the FF threads is spreading.
 
If anybody knows me on this forum, then they know I don't mind diving into a debate and totally exhausting whatever thought I have on it. In this case, I'm not going to because I don't think it has much to do with superheros.
 
I am excited about Spidey joining MCU.

MCU without Spider-Man is starting to feel boring, I am actually less excited about Avengers 2 (as compared to first Avengers movie)

Spider-Man brings much needed freshness and variety to MCU.
 
I am excited about Spidey joining MCU.

MCU without Spider-Man is starting to feel boring, I am actually less excited about Avengers 2 (as compared to first Avengers movie)

Spider-Man brings much needed freshness and variety to MCU.
what exacty is fresh about Spider-Man?
 

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