Is anyone not excited about Spider-man in the MCU?

[Arach Knight]

I don't understand why we can't have an older Peter Parker. In the comics Peter hadn't been in High School since ASM #28 and I think a lot of fans would argue Spider-Man comics were at their best when he was in his young adult/ college years. We literally JUST had an iteration with him in High School

I was arguing this EXACT same thing in the thread for the announcement. meeting Gwen, battling the Green Goblins, the death of Captain Stacy, the death of Jean De Wolfe, the original clone saga and many other popular stories occurred during Peter's years at ESU.


Spider-Man has spent most of his career as an adult in real time and comic time. The obsession some people have with Peter as a teen is bizarre. A teen solo hero is no longer novel in a world with books and cartoons starring the Teen Titans, Young Justice or the Runaways.

Also, we have seen enough of Peter in high school, across two separate film franchises. It is time for something different.

 

[kaijunexus]

I'm all for Spider-Man in the MCU. Really, I'm all for ALL Marvel properties in the MCU. I want everyone back home.

But this sucks. I woke up yesterday to this news, read the details, and was utterly disappointed as the internet broke into celebratory cries of "Spidey's back home!"

He's not. He's not back home.

Daredevil is back home. Ghost Rider is back home.

Spider-Man lives at Sony. He's going to visit Marvel Studios. And Marvel Studios is going to visit Spider-Man at Sony.

Sony ultimately still calls the shots when it comes to Spider-Man, despite seeking creative input from Marvel. They now retain creative influence over a character that will be appearing in the MCU. Sony has their hands in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. That makes my heart hurt.

Plus, Marvel got the raw end of this deal...

Sony gets...

- To take Black Panther's release date (consequently delaying the release of every other solo Marvel film ), thereby eliminating a big piece of competition

- Use MCU characters in their films

- Have Marvel's amazing creative team (including Feige) at their disposal

- Retain final creative control

- Keep all their profits

- Make as many Spider-Man and spin-off films as their hearts desire

Marvel gets...

- To use only Spider-Man (no other related characters were mentioned) that Sony had final creative control on in one of their films (yes, only one was mentioned)


Now, obviously, we don't know every little detail of this agreement...but it's not looking great to me so far.

I really feel like Marvel made this deal simply out of pressure from the public. Everyone is screaming for Spider-Man in the Avengers and Spider-Man in the MCU.

But, like...who cares about Spider-Man?

I like Spider-Man and I know he's incredibly popular...but we've had plenty of Spider-Man over the years. 5 films. A bunch of cartoons. Toys and merchandise out the ***!

Ugh.

Whatever.

 

[Sundancer]

I've never even heard of Miles Morales until this thread.

I say keep Spidey as a supporting character for now....but they're not doing that.

 

[OcStat]

People were speculating it might be Miles but that's all conjecture, just check the articles on this site, they are going to use Peter Parker.

And I really doubt So by made this deal so they can keep their tainted hands in the kitchen. They are going to step back and let Marvel do what they do, make a good super hero film. I doubt Sony's spin offs will continue, and if they do I think, I'm sure the Amazing series will be left behind.

Marvel never made a lot, if any, money off the Spider-Man movies and that was never a problem for them.

(Also, I haven't read anything that confirms new release dates for any previously announced MCU films. If Sony is still paying for it, and Marvel just needs to hire the team, I don't see that affecting other movies schedules.)

 

[Dwarf Slayer]

I'm ecstatic about Spider-Man being part of the MCU. For me, the MCU has always felt incomplete because it lacked Marvel's biggest players.

I'm not worried about Sony's involvement at all. We're going from having Avi Arad producing Spider-Man to Kevin Fiege. If anyone needs a reminder of what kind of creative control a producer has, let me remind of Arad's famous contributions to Marvel movies: Galactus is a cloud, Doctor Doom is a business man, and Venom being shoehorned into Spider-Man 3. Now imagine the guy who created the MCU being able to stop all of those horrible ideas from happening.

 

[MbJ]

(Not to sound overly harsh and bigoted, which I'm not, just putting that out there in case Kevin Feige's secretary or PR people or somebody reads stuff here. *rant off*)

That's tough to achieve when you open your post with a torrent of cursing and a promise to boycott the company if they bring in the black kid.

 

[Arach Knight]

Why is it that everytime I've clicked on something about Spider-man in the last two days, I eventually come across the name Miles Morales. Miles Morales is not ****ing Spider-man. If that kid shows up on film, after we've waited so long for this, I'm done with Marvel forever. Forever.

(Not to sound overly harsh and bigoted, which I'm not, just putting that out there in case Kevin Feige's secretary or PR people or somebody reads stuff here. *rant off*)

Miles Morales IS Spider-Man in the Ultimate universe. I can't fault you for disliking the character, but becoming so flustered is a bit excessive. It isn't as if the Marvel universe has a paucity of derivative characters. There are three Hulks, two Ghost Riders, Three Captain Americas and three Black Panthers, but you want to flip out over a third Spider-Man?

 

[Mjölnir]

I want Peter Parker in the MCU. He'll always be the real Spider-Man to me and since the MCU hasn't gone on for decades I prefer to have the originals there.

I don't want to see Beta Ray Bill, Rhodey Iron Man, etc either. The only exception I can think of is that I'd be happy with Bucky taking the mantle of Cap for a while (not permanently).

 

[Tony Stark]

I said this on the other thread.

Sony gets NOTHING for the MCU films featuring Spider-man.

Marvel gets a portion of the profits off the Sony films featuring Spider-man.

Marvel retains all merchandising revenue.

Avi Arad for all intents and purposes was fired. He will be listed as producer, but Feige will be the one in charge of all the films including the Sony ones.

Please someone tell me how this is bad for Marvel. They got pretty much everything they wanted out of the deal and it's even advantageous to keep him at Sony because Marvel doesn't have to pay any of the production costs for those films, Sony will pony up the cash and Marvel gets their take.

From a buisness perspective this is an ideal situation.

Believe it or not this is how Hollywood used to work. An actor like Clark Gable was an employee of MGM studios, if another rival studio wanted him in their picture, they would pay MGM to lease his talents and make the film they wanted. Only now a day instead of actors they are doing this with intellectual property.

This is a good deal for Marvel, and it might actually work out better than if they had the character in house because they can co produce their own films alongside the Spider-man films in tandem. Which means as consumers we will get more Superhero films and we can rest easy knowing that the quality production that was behind the MCU films will be behind the Spider-man films.

 

[OcStat]

Yeah one of the big headlines (just so happens to be the one Sony by Pictures shared on Facebook along with The Amazing Spider-Man page), says "Sony brings the MCU into the Amazing world of Spider-Man" Nice try folks! That isn't misleading at all.

Spider-Man has been brought to the MCU, not the other way around. We can relax.

 

[Rishi]

I'm not happy about another reboot - I loved Garfield as Spidey, and I thought the films were better than Raimi's. If Garfield shows up as Spidey in Civil War, I'll be psyched.

 

[JJmelo]

I'm not happy about another reboot - I loved Garfield as Spidey, and I thought the films were better than Raimi's. If Garfield shows up as Spidey in Civil War, I'll be psyched.

As long as they don't do the origin in its entirety again I think it will be ok. I'm more concerned about what this means for the plan they had in place prior to his acquisition. If having Spidey means a rushed story to include him I say leave him back with Sony.

If my worries are unfounded then sweet, but until the film comes out we won't know.

In any case, what do you think about him going back to highschool? Would a kid super stack up against Iron-Man and Thor?

http://otlnews.net/2015/02/11/mcu-spider-man-is-going-back-to-highschool/

 

[Grabes30]

Miles Morales IS Spider-Man in the Ultimate universe. I can't fault you for disliking the character, but becoming so flustered is a bit excessive. It isn't as if the Marvel universe has a paucity of derivative characters. There are three Hulks, two Ghost Riders, Three Captain Americas and three Black Panthers, but you want to flip out over a third Spider-Man?

...and the Ultimate universe is stupid. He's not *the* Spider-man. That's pretty widely accepted, I think. I'd be just as unhappy if they replaced Bruce Banner or Steve Rogers. It's just lazy writing and an easy way to find a new story.

But, *deep breath*, I don't really think any of that will happen. I'm pretty sure Marvel won't stray from the classic characters this early in the game.

 

[Grabes30]

That's tough to achieve when you open your post with a torrent of cursing and a promise to boycott the company if they bring in the black kid.

That.....is not a torrent. See my reply to the other point above ^. Changing the identity of a classic character is a lazy way to find a new story. I don't care if he's black, yellow, purple, or polka-dotted.

...and for the record, give me some Falcon, War Machine, and Black Panther any day. Great characters.

 

[Human Torch]

Why is it that everytime I've clicked on something about Spider-man in the last two days, I eventually come across the name Miles Morales. Miles Morales is not ****ing Spider-man. If that kid shows up on film, after we've waited so long for this, I'm done with Marvel forever. Forever.

(Not to sound overly harsh and bigoted, which I'm not, just putting that out there in case Kevin Feige's secretary or PR people or somebody reads stuff here. *rant off*)

I'm with you. It's getting pretty annoying that we've finally got Spidey back with Marvel and all of a sudden there's this wellspring of support for 'substitute spider-man'. I mean, sheesh give me a break already. I've got no interest in a non Peter Parker Spider-Man and 95% of the general audience would agree. (a good 90% probably never even heard of Miles Morales. Common sense dictates they won't be going with him,especially first time out of the gate)

 

[Chance Jackson]

No Spider-man isn't a character you can do that with. Ant-man sure, nobody except the hard core Ant-man/Avengers fans care that it's Scott Lang and not Hank Pym.

But Spider-man is by far Marvel's most well known property. No one knows who the hell Miles Morales is.

What people don't want to see is another re-hashed origin story. They want Spider-man in new material, and they're going to get that.

People only know who peter is because of the cartoons, and movies the only thing holding miles back is his age imo and that is easily rectified

 

[Spider-Fan83]

I posted this before the deal went through, (didn't think it actually would)

the problem with introducing spider-man now, into the marvel movies, is kinda the same problem they had in phase 2 solo films... with the question of how do you isolate him from the rest of the characters, an establish that's he's been around without anyone having heard about him ,yet? why hasn't he been mentioned? where was he during the other movies?

when it come to him getting a solo films set in the marvel universe, how do you have him go up against any type of large scale threat, without the Avengers/S.H.I.E.L.D./anyone else, showing up

I think it still applies

I am intrigued to see how this all plays out, but, I wouldn't say I am excited, yet

 

[Shikamaru]

People only know who peter is because of the cartoons, and movies the only thing holding miles back is his age imo and that is easily rectified

Are you kidding? Spider-Man's been an iconic American figure since his debut in the 60's. He's what practically got Marvel to where they are today.

Back in the 80's, Peter's wedding to MJ was a televised hit.

[YT]UQwslg6lat8[/YT]

Peter Parker is to Spider-Man what Bruce Wayne is to Batman, what Clark Kent is to Superman. Miles hasn't even existed for 5 years, was created in the first place for political reasons, and most of his stories have been recycled 616 Peter Parker stories. He simply doesn't deserve to be in the MCU, at least not anytime in the near future.

 

[Arach Knight]

...and the Ultimate universe is stupid. He's not *the* Spider-man. That's pretty widely accepted, I think. I'd be just as unhappy if they replaced Bruce Banner or Steve Rogers. It's just lazy writing and an easy way to find a new story.

But, *deep breath*, I don't really think any of that will happen. I'm pretty sure Marvel won't stray from the classic characters this early in the game.

I will just say this;

These characters may be timeless, but their personas are not. Each generation deserves to have its own take on these characters: one that is relevant to the zeitgeist of their time. There are decades upon decades worth of stories about Peter Parker the Amazing Spider-Man. Your nostalgia is not in jeopardy because a new generation gets to enjoy its own Spider-Man.

In the 40s, The Flash was Jay Garrick. In the 50s, The Flash was Barry Allen and in the 80s, The Flash was Wally West. No one version of the character has more of a claim to being "The" Flash than any other version. All that matters to each generation is that they have a character known as The Flash.

You have every right to love whatever version of the character is most meaningful to you, but that doesn't mean that you should become bitter about the prospect that media portrayals of the character as he is known today, are not a reflection of the character you knew yesteryear.

 

[Shikamaru]

^ Please explain to me, right here and now, how Peter Parker isn't the Spider-Man of today's generation. Explain how Miles, with his non-mainstream four year old comic that the GA hasn't even heard of, has left a bigger impact on the current generation than Peter Parker.

You offered no evidence that is the case and if anything, you just made a solid argument as to why they should go with Peter. You also tried to apply an inapplicable analogy by comparing Spidey to a generational character like the Flash, when the idea of Peter Parker being Spider-Man is as ingrained in culture as Bruce Wayne being Batman and Clark Kent being Superman. That's the true equivalent here, not the Flash.

There's no valid reason to start off this reboot with Miles. Maybe later down the road it'll be more acceptable, but not now.

 

[Flint Marko]

I will just say this;

These characters may be timeless, but their personas are not. Each generation deserves to have its own take on these characters: one that is relevant to the zeitgeist of their time. There are decades upon decades worth of stories about Peter Parker the Amazing Spider-Man. Your nostalgia is not in jeopardy because a new generation gets to enjoy its own Spider-Man.

In the 40s, The Flash was Jay Garrick. In the 50s, The Flash was Barry Allen and in the 80s, The Flash was Wally West. No one version of the character has more of a claim to being "The" Flash than any other version. All that matters to each generation is that they have a character known as The Flash.

You have every right to love whatever version of the character is most meaningful to you, but that doesn't mean that you should become bitter about the prospect that media portrayals of the character as he is known today, are not a reflection of the character you knew yesteryear.

Peter Parker is the definitive Spider-man. It is not up for debate.

^ Please explain to me, right here and now, how Peter Parker isn't the Spider-Man of today's generation. Explain how Miles, with his non-mainstream four year old comic that the GA hasn't even heard of, has left a bigger impact on the current generation than Peter Parker.

You offered no evidence that is the case and if anything, you just made a solid argument as to why they should go with Peter. You also tried to apply an inapplicable analogy by comparing Spidey to a generational character like the Flash, when the idea of Peter Parker being Spider-Man is as ingrained in culture as Bruce Wayne being Batman and Clark Kent being Superman. That's the true equivalent here, not the Flash.

There's no valid reason to start off this reboot with Miles. Maybe later down the road it'll be more acceptable, but not now.

Agreed, I'm getting a little sick of the Miles Morales talk. No one outside of people like us really know or care who the character is.

You've got a lot of preconceived notions about where the direction of this "NEW MCU BASED SPIDER-MAN" will be going.

I'd like to think that Marvel's sole purpose in taking over Spider-man and intergrading him into the MCU was to correct Sony's mistakes, not to repeat them.

Boom. This right here.
If you have trepidations about this deal, understand this: we were going to get a Spider-man movie regardless of whether or not this deal was made. The alternative was Sony once more churning out another lifeless film on par with ASM 2, possibly the sinister six movie no one wanted, or hell maybe even another reboot. But now we have one connected to the MCU, with Marvel at the wheel.
You can say, "well sony still has creative control" but if Sony is smart (and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here, I think they've sobered up after the hell they just went through) they are taking a backseat and letting the pros at Marvel call the shots.
What's funny is that if they listened to Marvel in the first place, we wouldn't even be in this situation. Sony sent the script for the sequel to Marvel a few years ago and they emailed them back saying how horrid it was and that it needed numerous changes. Maybe if they listened the first time they wouldn't be in this situation.

the problem with introducing spider-man now, into the marvel movies, is kinda the same problem they had in phase 2 solo films... with the question of how do you isolate him from the rest of the characters, an establish that's he's been around without anyone having heard about him ,yet? why hasn't he been mentioned? where was he during the other movies?

Simple, you just have Spider-man get his powers sometime a year or so after the NY invasion. Some kid from queens getting spider-powers wouldn't pop up at all on Captain America or Iron Man's radar. Look at Daredevil, he's a street level hero operating in the same universe. Same rules apply to him.

 

[Shikamaru]

There shouldn't be any continuity issues assuming this Spider-Man is relatively new (which he seems to be). If he's only been out just a few times, it makes sense why he's unheard of. The most you would have are some Bugle articles regarding a "masked menace" spotted in the city.

 

[Arach Knight]

Peter Parker is the definitive Spider-man. It is not up for debate.

Stating that something isn't up for debate is in no way a conclusive or thorough rebuttal. In fact, such a response is intellectually dishonest and lazy. The mantle of Spider-Man has belonged to no fewer than three characters that are not Peter Parker. If someone is a Miguel O'Hara fan, do you have sound reasoning to deny their acceptance of Miguel O'Hara as Spider-Man?


Please be a bit more intellectually honest than this. There may be a popular version of a character or a classic version, but neither idea is synonymous with the notion of "definitive."

These are fictional characters that have had nearly a century of stories behind them. They aren't static creations, but ever evolving figures that change with the vicissitudes of the times. Each generation will know whatever version of the character is most meaningful to them. This is as true for children that grew up with Wally West as it is for children that are now growing up with Miles Morales.

^ Please explain to me, right here and now, how Peter Parker isn't the Spider-Man of today's generation. Explain how Miles, with his non-mainstream four year old comic that the GA hasn't even heard of, has left a bigger impact on the current generation than Peter Parker.

Bringing up the impact of a character's legacy is irrelevant to the point I am arguing. Today's generation has exposure to Peter Parker and Miles Morales. It is up to the youth of today to decide who Spider-Man is for them.

To this young boy, posing with Brian Michael Bendis, Miles is Spider-Man.

To this young teen, Miles Morales is Spider-Man.

On what grounds would you deny their perception that Miles Morales is Spider-Man? Because you said so? Because today's generation is growing up with a version of the character that is different from the version that you grew up with? A person who grew up in the 1940s could make the same claim about The Flash that you are now attempting to make about Miles Morales. The same goes for anyone who grew up with Hal Jordan and not Kyle Rayner. And such a person would have just as weak an argument.

To drive the point home, I'll point out that Hal Jordan, the SECOND Green Lantern, is often seen by your sort to be the "definitive" Green Lantern (even though he is not the first/classic). Even though Hal died in 1994 and was replaced by Kyle that same year, it was 2001's Justice League animated series which popularized the THIRD Green Lantern, John Stewart. Youths that grew up watching that cartoon associate Green Lantern with John Stewart, so much so that when the Warner Bros. live-action film was announced, most "mainstream" people wondered why Green Lantern wasn't being played by someone Black. A quick check via Google will confirm this fact.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...&ie=UTF-8#q=i thought green lantern was black

So who cares about the ultimate impact of legacy when addressing the reality that each generation will interpret the character in a way that is meaningful to them? You are clouding the issue with appeals to authority (the "impact" of a particular iteration of a character). Worse, you are clouding the discussion with the implication that nostalgia some how takes priority over the right of a new generation to define its own pop culture narrative.

I have nothing further to add in address to you or the previous poster I have cited, as it would only devolve into my points being repeated. As I said to the other gentleman/lady earlier, you are welcome to your nostalgia and your preference, but neither of those elements is substantial grounds to deny that each generation interprets iconic characters in a way that is most meaningful for themselves.

 

[smashmode]

Anyone else feel this way?

No you are the only one.

 

[Shikamaru]

^ Do you want me to post pictures of kids in Batman Beyond suits off Google? Do you want me to list you all the users I've seen state they prefer Dick Grayson as Batman to Bruce Wayne? Or the fans that loved Jean-Vaul Palley because it took Batman back to his killing roots?

Once again, you attempt a straw man out of an analogy that doesn't hold up. For multiple reasons:

1) Hal Jordan and Barry Allen did not originate out of the Golden Age versions. Their origins did not require the Golden Age versions to exist. Same thing with Kyle and John. They shared a name but became stand-alone characters on their own. Miles, by his very nature, requires Peter. Miles without Peter is simply younger watered down black Peter. Only more scared, more alone, and with an uncle that's evil. He needed Peter to be his inspiration to stand up and get the courage to embrace his power and the responsibilities that came with it. Peter is Miles' Uncle Ben, so to speak. He's also meant to represent the reader, in a sense (albeit I think it's more flimsy personally) in that the reader is to feel inspired by Peter as well. The reader is meant to see him and his example and strive to be like him. And Miles is meant to be there to form that connection even if he's not the best handled character.

2) However, even in that regard, even to Miles, Peter is the Ultimate Spider-Man. Peter is his hero. Peter is meant to be the inspiration and Miles the new identifiable. Identifiable works in a prolonged series, but you can't just shove him into a movie and expect him to be completely identifiable. There's nothing to connect TO with him, to make him universal. Without the universality of sharing that inspiration, sharing that grief at his loss, sharing the acceptance of the philosophy that IS Peter Parker...what does Miles really have? Miles Morales is that he literally requires Peter Parker in order to exist. In order to have life. In order to have purpose and be there to connect to. And that's GREAT...for readers of that book. But the general public doesn't read that book. Even those who read said books, don't read that book near as much. The Ultimates are dead, the sole reason Miles lives is he's JUST popular enough to keep around and he's Bendis' pet project. Hence why he's the only one expected to survive the reboot save Nick Fury. But Peter...Peter has the legacy. Peter has the stories. Peter IS the inspiration. Peter is the one who taught us all the price of power and the responsibilities we have to our fellow man not to sit back and do nothing when we can indeed do something, even if it's dangerous, or even if it's something as small as encouraging or comforting a stranger. The 50+ years of stories to draw from doesn't hurt either, and that's just not something Miles has. Even now his most known arc is... simply him becoming Spider-Man, or event stories where he's pushed to the front.And since it seems Miles and Peter may co-exist in the new Marvel Universe, why not simply wait and see what they do with him? Perhaps we'll even see them both on-screen together then as well. But Peter Parker is simply not a character you can toss aside, and Miles...Miles literally needs him. Just like everyone else.

3. Similarly, Hal Jordan taught us what the mantle of Green Lantern was all about. Everything that made the Green Lanterns who they are today came from Hal Jordan. Hal is the real source, the main inspiration. Not to the same extent as Peter Parker is to Spider-Man, but that fact still stands.

4. Even in their moments of hiatus, those substitutes never truly replaced Hal. It was still widely accepted that Hal Jordan is the true Green Lantern. Neither John nor Kyle ever reached that same level of iconography. John in particular never made it big outside the JL cartoon, where he was almost entirely written as if he were Hal. There was some confusion at first with some of the younger generation, but it's been mostly cleared up and Hal's been back on track with his own TV show, main comic and potential film franchise. Wally West is arguably the only successor to have topped the predecessor, but that's always been the exception that proves the rule and had more to do with DC's editorial policies regarding their characters. By the time DC managed to modernize their characters and make them interesting (Post-Crisis), Wally was already in the suit. So in many ways, he defined the role the same way Hal did. Now with Barry back and him finally getting a chance in the modern era, we're starting to see a lot of that undone.

5. Peter Parker is ultimately bigger than any of those characters brought up, for many reasons already stated. He is Marvel's equivalent to Batman and Superman, whose identities have never been changed in that sense and are as ingrained in the genre as it gets. Those characters embody the superhero's philosophy, and it's what makes them definitive.

6.Finally, who are you to deny this generation's perception that Peter Parker is Spider-Man? Which is the universal position held (and justifiably so). I could easily flip that question back on you. I also love the overall "who the hell is Peter Parker" attitude in your post, though. After all this time, especially after a rough franchise, it would simply be insulting to not have the definitive Spider-Man in the MCU standing side by side with the definitive Iron Man, Captain America, etc.