Is Superman getting the shaft in "Justice League"? - Part 2

[Broseph44]

It's not like this couldn't have been unavoidable. The decisions in the past has led up to this.

Doesn't matter who made those decisions but it's a classic example of reaping what they sowed.

I'm more interested in seeing if they can turn this JL ship around and be commercially sustainable. I'm optimistic that they will.

No matter what decisions were made there would still be some disappointed and others who don't mind. It's always going to be that way.

 

[Limonade]

No matter what decisions were made there would still be some disappointed and others who don't mind. It's always going to be that way.

Wait... we're still talking about showing Superman in the poster/trailer, right? Not the general outlook of the DCEU.

 

[Broseph44]

Wait... we're still talking about showing Superman in the poster/trailer, right? Not the general outlook of the DCEU.

Yeah Superman and all that and his arc or how his character has been handled.

 

[Herolee10]

Must have missed the latest batch of posters, action figures, funkos etc that all featured Superman then

Things that are not really important at the end of the day when compared to the actual theatrical posters that people will come across in theaters across the globe or for the lucky folks that attended comic con. I have met several people who would gladly trade the situation where we wouldn't see any toys of him as opposed to not seeing him on the actual movie posters.

Exactly. those characters like the Flash, Aquaman Cyborg who haven't had there own solo films or major parts in films prior this one deserve some development.

I can understand the likes of the Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman needing both time and development.

However, Batman was the costar of BvS and Wonder Woman just came off her own solo film; a film that has been labeled as the best DCEU film thus far. Do those two need more time to be developed?

Now before people say that Superman has already had two film's, let's reexamine that statement. Yes he was the star of MOS, however he only had half of BvS to himself (with the other half having gone to Batman). And even with that portion, most people have stated on how he took several steps back in his development as a character and was more of a plot device than a real person.

I think the problem is that despite appearing in two films, people don't feel like Superman has been given much development either.

I would argue that they did fairly well with him in MOS, aside from some weird moments where he seems oblivious to the destruction he's causing (like smashing Zod through a gas station and blowing it up). But in BvS, he barely feels like a character. In the theatrical version at least, he's just there for other characters to talk about and take action because of, like a McGuffin.

Hopefully JL will change that though. If so, then praise be to Whedon or Snyder or Terrio or whoever really allows him to shine.

 

[jmc]

For the record, I don't have any real problems (now) with not seeing him in the trailers. I can actually understand (however very flawed) that logic.

Now it's things like excluding him from these things (posters) that really gets me going.

How can you exclude Superman from these once in a lifetime posters? Especially the Alex Ross inspired one?

It's things like this that really solidifies my belief that Superman isn't a member of this group (JL) because you don't promote a film about a group that's 99% complete.

Not showing him in any footage is fine in the long run but hiding him from these posters is just b.s. There's no excuse for it.

It's the one thing that I will never be able to forget or let go for this film.

This is a rather small thing but it goes to the crux of the problem that I believe has been plaguing this series since MoS, and that is the studio is assuming people care about these characters. That Alex Ross inspired photo makes sense to everyone of us on the forum, but it doesn't really mean anything to anyone outside of the comic community. That is attractive to a comic crowd. The problem I think the WB marketing department doesn't realise is that this image is meaningless to the average joes of the world who are on the fence about JL. If I put my design and marketing hat on one of the questions I would have to ask the person who came up with this idea would be 'Who the hell is Alex Ross to the joe public'? The answer is nobody. It's a small thing, but it's also reflective of how the studio has handled most of these film where they've relied on the characters names to do the heavy lifting. WW is the only one where they had little choice but to get the audience invested, as much is she was an iconic character most people didn't actually know that much about her.

 

[Herolee10]

You know, I honestly wonder if Superman might take a sabbatical or even temporarily retire after the events of this film. Now that the JL has been established, they could probably fill up the void for his absence (for at least awhile), thus allowing the character to take a break...maybe even use that time to get married to Lois.

I mean the character did temporarily retire in the comics at one point as well, while the JL were able to cover for him during that time.

This could probably explain on why we won't see him until a potential sequel or some other future installment far off down the line.

 

[sf2]

This is a rather small thing but it goes to the crux of the problem that I believe has been plaguing this series since MoS, and that is the studio is assuming people care about these characters. That Alex Ross inspired photo makes sense to everyone of us on the forum, but it doesn't really mean anything to anyone outside of the comic community. That is attractive to a comic crowd. The problem I think the WB marketing department doesn't realise is that this image is meaningless to the average joes of the world who are on the fence about JL. If I put my design and marketing hat on one of the questions I would have to ask the person who came up with this idea would be 'Who the hell is Alex Ross to the joe public'? The answer is nobody. It's a small thing, but it's also reflective of how the studio has handled most of these film where they've relied on the characters names to do the heavy lifting. WW is the only one where they had little choice but to get the audience invested, as much is she was an iconic character most people didn't actually know that much about her.

The average joes need to know Alex Ross in order to appreciate a beautiful poster???
didn't studios rely on the superstars names heavily???
didn't Marvel do the same??? Everything with ironman n CA... almost...

 

[sf2]

I don't understand the complaint that Superman was barely a character. He just there to reacted to the people talking n events happened.

 

[WBwins]

Killing Superman in the first place makes zero sense. For all the talk about how WB is in a lose-lose position, they did this to themselves. They're trying to tell us how "important" this character is but they already bungled all that in BvS by chopping out most of his scenes, killing him as if anyone would care, and then immediately assuring audience's that he will return.

Thank you Flint.Many people moss that they did this to themselves in the end.

 

[supermatt]

A lot of people here are just a bunch of drama queens and get caught up in the echo chamber of the internet.

Superman seems to be more popular now then ever. I don't know if others are noticing the same thing but I'm seeing a whole lot more shirts and other things out in public in relation to superman. Even seems to have surpassed batman lately. They must be doing something right.

 

[batfreakforever]

A lot of people here are just a bunch of drama queens and get caught up in the echo chamber of the internet.

Superman seems to be more popular now then ever. I don't know if others are noticing the same thing but I'm seeing a whole lot more shirts and other things out in public in relation to superman. Even seems to have surpassed batman lately. They must be doing something right.

Thats so true. People just keep complain about Superman without even seeing JL yet. Those people will never be happy with whatever happens with Superman in JL.

Zac knew this BS would happen with all these rumours about JL, reshoots and Joss taking over etc because thats why he made the announcement.

Superman has never got shaft in these film. People are just pissy because Zac did something different with him then others have done on film before.

They know exactly what they are doing with JL. They will eventually release posters with Supes and the JL together it just wont be for awhile. Ive already seen the love for Superman from the cast and crew of JL and the release of statues and figurines and other Superman JL products.

Superman is not getting the shaft with JL. There is a story to be told and just because he was killed in BVS doesnt mean he gets shafted in JL. They are building to big reveal with Superman in JL and the movie will show the world that Superman is very well loved and needed in JL.

 

[The Batman]

I love how people can only back up Superman's supposed rise in popularity...with purely anecdotal evidence.

 

[jmc]

The average joes need to know Alex Ross in order to appreciate a beautiful poster???
didn't studios rely on the superstars names heavily???
didn't Marvel do the same??? Everything with ironman n CA... almost...

It's not that good a poster.

 

[supermatt]

I love how people can only back up Superman's supposed rise in popularity...with purely anecdotal evidence.

Yeah next time I'll be sure to use a scientific research study instead.

 

[The Batman]

I'm sure anything will be better than "I saw some people walking around in Superman T-Shirts, so his popularity is on an upswing".

 

[Best]

The "I saw this poor/adorable kid" stories are the worst.

 

[AnneFan]

The average joes need to know Alex Ross in order to appreciate a beautiful poster???

Yeah, it's just an absolute nonsense comment. Someone looks at the poster and they either like it or they don't.

 

[supermatt]

I'm sure anything will be better than "I saw some people walking around in Superman T-Shirts, so his popularity is on an upswing".

But I guess if you think the opposite it's perfectly ok right? Yeah whatever if you could read you would see I stated it as an opinion and not fact.

 

[The Batman]

But I guess if you think the opposite it's perfectly ok right?

You guessed wrong.

 

[supermatt]

You guessed wrong.

Fine no problem. I'll stick with my anecdotal evidence and you can go with yours that I'm wrong which is anecdotal as well.

 

[The Batman]

You stick with whatever unsupported arguments your mind will conjure up.

 

[supermatt]

You stick with whatever unsupported arguments your mind will conjure up.

I'm not sure where I'm supposed to get supported arguments about freaking fictional superheros exactly but I'll check into it. Thanks for the help in showing me the error of my ways.

 

[The Batman]

You're Welcome!

 

[Murdock103]

I'm not sure where I'm supposed to get supported arguments about freaking fictional superheros exactly but I'll check into it. Thanks for the help in showing me the error of my ways.

Comic sales? Merchandise sales? Polls from existing comic fans? Polls from non comic fans? Social media buzz/excitement? Box office?

I mean, those are just off the top of my head.

 

[Trevor]

Yeah, I don't think anyone would've cared if WB made a Batman vs. Superman film before Man of Steel with Brandon Routh as Superman.

That's how dead the character was back then especially if you look at the box-office performance of Superman Returns despite being a far more critically successful film than Man of Steel.

People had given up on him long ago including me untill Nolan and Snyder revived him and made him watchable, even in terms of action sequences, and made the character a lot more interesting and relevant again. It's the truth.

He needed a makeover and now, he's the most hyped part of the Justice League right now. Even more than Batman. Now if it was Brandon Routh's Superman....heh.