Is the over reliance on humour a problem in the MCU

[Batsfan1]

Honestly the humor wasn't really a problem until Avengers. IM, TIH and CA: TFA were all pretty balanced humor wise. Thor had a little too much humor, but that mostly came out of the fish out of water aspect, with the exception of Darcy, who is kept at a small dose. Whedon overdid. He took Tony, who was a wisecracking, entertaining, but tortured character and made him into a reckless butthole quipman. Made Cap into a grandpa. Turned Black Widow into a toned down Buffy, which isn't bad all by itself, but with BW, the quips seem out of place amongst the spy organization and contrast a little with the all business SHIELD Agent from IM 2. I feel like Joss could have eased into her more emotional side more carefully. Bruce is fine, but comes off more nerdy for some reason in Whedon's movies. And having Loki defeated via joke just took away so much of the drama of the situations in the movie and thinking about it after it comes off as lame Then Tony thing creates a problem though because Shane Black for whatever reason decided to try and match Whedon's comedy by continuing the Tony butthole quipman trend, but takes Happy Hogan down with him and even throws a joke into the villain. And it's made worse by Whedon again by AOU, where he increases the Tony reckless aspect even more. And Ultron is just a little much as a quip machine almost literally. Along with other characters. Civil War Tony feels so much more like the character than Whedon's version. It's why TWS, IM and CW are up there with TDK in quality. There's comedy and humor, but it's character based and not overdone. Heavier comedy works fine for something whimsical like Ant-Man and GOTG, though I do feel they overdo too it a little too much. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

 

[metaphysician]

Not in my opinion they weren't, Marvel's worst along with The Dark World and Iron Man 2.

Your opinion runs contrary to the majority of the evidence, then. Which is perfectly fine, you don't have to like every movie. . . but "I didn't like it" is not synonymous with "It wasn't any good".

 

[kguillou]

I think part of it is that after RDJ became a star, Favreau, Whedon and Shane Black let him run wild and ad-lib and quip as much as he wanted. The Russos reigned RDJ in and made sure he didnt go crazy on the quippage although you could tell he snuck some in. Still, CW was a return to the balanced Tony that we hadn't seen since IM 1.

I've always said that in IM 1 it feels like your watching a live action Tony Stark on the screen; in IM 2, Avengers, IM 3 and AoU it feels like your watching RDJ be himself.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Disagreed. I don't think Tony character different in sequels. He just have more humor because he embrace hero role.

 

[Steamteck]

Your opinion runs contrary to the majority of the evidence, then. Which is perfectly fine, you don't have to like every movie. . . but "I didn't like it" is not synonymous with "It wasn't any good".

Words of wisdom for everybody.

 

[Bats123]

Boy that last page was....something
Anyway, i think i've mentioned it but where it really bothered me was Thor: The Dark World and Iron Man 3, mostly cus Thor 2 had Darcy and her friends which really, REALLY annoyed me, i hate Thor 2 so much, i was so bummed out and defeated coming out of that movie.
Then in Iron Man 3, which i quite enjoy tbh, that first trailer was super dark and serious and then...we got a Shane Black comedy, which again i enjoyed for the most part (LOVED The Nice Guys btw) but its a REAL bummer seeing that first trailer and looking at the final product.
Oh, also, Ultron, not the movie as a whole but the character itself, again with the trailers, Ultron seemed to be creepy, eerie and menacing...aaaaand we got James Spader making jokes, i enjoy Ultron and IM3 in the same way, they're fine movies but nothing special that i would run and watch again.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

It didn't become a problem for me until phase 2, IM3 and TDW had lots of misplaced humour and they are the 2 worst MCU movies for me. I thought they had learned their lesson from that the year after as the humour in TWS and GOTG was used brilliantly. The latter had me in stitches at points and got serious when it needed to.

But then a step back was taken with AOU, there was far too much humour there and it actually made the likes of Ultron and the 3rd a huge let down for me.

Ant Man balanced it well though, and CW did it even better so it seems they are back on track. I don't think Doc Strange will go overboard with the humour either. But I have to say I think the Wi-Fi joke in the trailer was great.

 

[Luke234]

I gave up on Marvel. Too much campiness. Stuff sells. It's very family friendly like a pirates of the carribean tone but I'm just not a fan of campy stuff.

 

[Chesterfield]

The Marvel movies are campy??

 

[kguillou]

Its not that the Marvel movies are campy, Marvel knows their audience and they are playing to them. Theyre making feel good movies that families could go to and come out clapping. On the one hand I respect that, on the other I would like to see a darker Marvel film that has real stakes and drama. You'll never see a Marvel film that has scenes like the Magneto forest scene or the Weapon X scene in Xmen Apocalypse. Theyre just not prepared to go there.

On the the other hand, I think thats the purpose of the Netflix shows. Its Marvel's way of saying "look, for all you dark, gritty drama lovers out there, we're gonna satisfy your needs via Netflix." The movies are for family fun, the Netflix series are for drama.

Its kind of ironic. I feel like, traditionally, Marvel Comics was always the edgier brand than the campier DC Comics going back to the 60's.

 

[Bats123]

Its not that the Marvel movies are campy, Marvel knows their audience and they are playing to them. Theyre making feel good movies that families could go to and come out clapping. On the one hand I respect that, on the other I would like to see a darker Marvel film that has real stakes and drama. You'll never see a Marvel film that has scenes like the Magneto forest scene or the Weapon X scene in Xmen Apocalypse. Theyre just not prepared to go there.

On the the other hand, I think thats the purpose of the Netflix shows. Its Marvel's way of saying "look, for all you dark, gritty drama lovers out there, we're gonna satisfy your needs via Netflix." The movies are for family fun, the Netflix series are for drama.

Its kind of ironic. I feel like, traditionally, Marvel Comics was always the edgier brand than the campier DC Comics going back to the 60's.

This seems like such a cheapshot, "real stakes", what is your definition of "real stakes and drama"? Winter Soldier, Hydra is taking over SHIELD, its a big game changer and Cap is being hunted as a traitor, no stakes there? no real drama? do you mean like, end of the world stakes? like Avengers? or Ultron? not every movie needs to have the world in the brink of destruction to have "real stakes"

As for the other one, i guess Bucky pummeling and murdering Tony's parents was just kiddy campy stuff, the bombing at the UN? child's play, in Iron Man 1, mlitary gets shot down, Tony gets blasted, almost bleeds to death, is captive for months, just nickelodeon ****, from what you're describing, it just sounds like you want mindless killing of people just because its "darker and edgier"

 

[TheVileOne]

Saying the movies are too humorous or not serious enough is just an excuse from defensive *hardcore* DCEU fans who are dismayed over the critical response for the recent movies. That's all it is at the end of the day.

 

[kguillou]

No no no, sir. That is not at all what I meant. I mentioned those Xmen scenes as an example that Marvel will not go to that level with their films and thats fine. I was just making a point that they know what their audience is and theyre not trying to upset them. Winter Soldier is the exception, yes, that movie had real drama and stakes and thats exactly my point. Why instead of being the exception that cannot be the rule?

Why did Ultron have to be such a joke of a villain? Say what you will about Apocalypse but he was a formidable villain. Makeup aside, he was taken seriously and it took serious effort on the Xmen's part to take him down, not a silly punch from Hulk played for comedic effect. That's what I mean by drama and stakes. I think there's a reason most fans claim Ironman 1 and Winter Soldier are the best MCU movies, because those movies knew when to be humoroud and knew when to raise the stakes.

 

[Flint Marko]

Apocalypse was a formidable villain? He didn't make any jokes but at no point did I ever feel any real stakes or drama.

 

[harryoscop]

Least he was more threatening and menacing than Ultron

 

[First Avenger]

If people use hyperboles saying Ultron is a comedian because of three sarcastic lines I can easily say that Apocalypse wasn't much more than a mutant stylist for its Horsemen. I honestly laughed everytime there was a close-up on his face for how bad it looked. I also hated how they showcased his powers. Even Malekith looked better than him,I love Singer's movies but he dropped the ball big time with the last movie.

Honestly the Avengers would slaughter the X-Men we saw in Apocalypse save for Jean Grey(case in point,Apocalypse was dead the moment The Phoenix was unleashed). And Ultron actually killed one of the heroes,his plan was almost succeding and he also survived to everything the Avengers threw at him until Vision destroyed his last body.

Sometimes people underestimate the fact that it took the combined efforts of powehouses like Thor,Vision,Scarlet,Hulk and Iron Man to take Ultron down. Yeah Cap put a real fight in Seoul but he was going to lose if the twins didn't save him. But no,people just want to remember three jokes from the villain and that's it. That's just not fair imo.

 

[BH/HHH]

Least he was more threatening and menacing than Ultron

Plain old Danny DeVito would me more menacing than Ultron

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Apocalypse was a formidable villain? He didn't make any jokes but at no point did I ever feel any real stakes or drama.

He was much more formidable than Ultron. He was actually a threat to the heroes. The whole X-Men team including Charles, with help from a powered up Magneto fighting him on both the real and mind plains couldn't beat him. Had Pheonix not been there, the X-Men would have lost. Even when Pheonix came onto the scene, it still took Storm intervening to stop Apocalypse teleporting away.

Ultron didn't win one fight he had in AOU, he wasn't formidable at all and that's why so many thought he was disappointing. Apoc was disappointing to some for different reasons.

Least he was more threatening and menacing than Ultron

Plain old Danny DeVito would me more menacing than Ultron

 

[kguillou]

Yeah, with Apocalypse, you had the Xmen and the horseman giving everything they had against him. You had Charles fighting him on the psychic plain, and it didn't work. It gave you the impression that Apocalypse was unstoppable, and at the last minute it took Jean unleashing the Phoenix to stop him. There was tension, there was drama, there was stakes.

Ultron? Ironman, Thor and Vision shoot lasers at him for 5 seconds and then Hulk punches him in a cartoonish way and thats it. Thats our big epic battle of The Avengers vs Ultron. Thats why I and so many were let down by him and feel he was a joke.

Thing is, Whedon knows how to write villains. If you watcg Serenity, that movie had a BADASS villain (played immaculately by Chiwetel Ejiofor). Whenever he appeared onscreen I feared for the heroes' lives. You literally felt like Nathan Fillion and co were outmatched by this guy. That's how you do it.

I think I get the effect Whedon was going for with Ultron, he was trying something different, but like Loki he ended up being another comedic punchline for the Hulk.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yeah, with Apocalypse, you had the Xmen and the horseman giving everything they had against him. You had Charles fighting him on the psychic plain, and it didn't work. It gave you the impression that Apocalypse was unstoppable, and at the last minute it took Jean unleashing the Phoenix to stop him. There was tension, there was drama, there was stakes.

Ultron? Ironman, Thor and Vision shoot lasers at him for 5 seconds and then Hulk punches him in a cartoonish way and thats it. Thats our big epic battle of The Avengers vs Ultron. Thats why I and so many were let down by him and feel he was a joke.

Thing is, Whedon knows how to write villains. If you watcg Serenity, that movie had a BADASS villain (played immaculately by Chiwetel Ejiofor). Whenever he appeared onscreen I feared for the heroes' lives. You literally felt like Nathan Fillion and co were outmatched by this guy. That's how you do it.

I think I get the effect Whedon was going for with Ultron, he was trying something different, but like Loki he ended up being another comedic punchline for the Hulk.

Yeah. The Operative from Serenity was an awesome villain who was like an unstoppable machine. So I was really excited for Ultron and what Joss would do with him. But he turned out to be a major disappointment for me and he just wasn't a threat to the heroes at all. Not like the Ultron from the comics who is always difficult to defeat.

I think Joss had more freedom and could go darker with Serenity though than he could with Ultron, maybe that was a factor.

Loki came across a lot more threatening than Ultron did though which I wasn't expecting, especially as we knew going in Loki was no match for Thor or Hulk physically. Ultron had all the factors in place to be an awesome villain, I will forever be perplexed he turned out so disappointing.

 

[CaptainWagner]

If people use hyperboles saying Ultron is a comedian because of three sarcastic lines I can easily say that Apocalypse wasn't much more than a mutant stylist for its Horsemen. I honestly laughed everytime there was a close-up on his face for how bad it looked. I also hated how they showcased his powers. Even Malekith looked better than him,I love Singer's movies but he dropped the ball big time with the last movie.

Honestly the Avengers would slaughter the X-Men we saw in Apocalypse save for Jean Grey(case in point,Apocalypse was dead the moment The Phoenix was unleashed). And Ultron actually killed one of the heroes,his plan was almost succeding and he also survived to everything the Avengers threw at him until Vision destroyed his last body.

Sometimes people underestimate the fact that it took the combined efforts of powehouses like Thor,Vision,Scarlet,Hulk and Iron Man to take Ultron down. Yeah Cap put a real fight in Seoul but he was going to lose if the twins didn't save him. But no,people just want to remember three jokes from the villain and that's it. That's just not fair imo.

First off, it was a lot more than three jokes, all coming from a character who simply shouldn't be funny. Secondly, Quicksilver's death means nothing, because it was quickly followed by another joke and had no impact on the characters going forward other than one line from Scarlet Witch. Ultron in the HISHE sketch was a more formidable adversary than the one we got in the actual movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

First off, it was a lot more than three jokes, all coming from a character who simply shouldn't be funny. Secondly, Quicksilver's death means nothing, because it was quickly followed by another joke and had no impact on the characters going forward other than one line from Scarlet Witch. Ultron in the HISHE sketch was a more formidable adversary than the one we got in the actual movie.

 

[Bats123]

Apocalypse was so silly, never felt any kind of threat from him, he had all the nukes in the world and then.....he just leaves them there in space.....what....and the makeup on Oscar's face was so bad, i laughed everytime he was on screen, oh but wait he also gave the horsemen their costumes, so threating, such fear, what a villian, there's NOTHING memorable about Apocalypse.

 

[Flint Marko]

I'm not interested in the umpteenth discussion about Ultron's formidability or lack thereof. I questioned the statement that Apocalypse was a formidable villain, and I still do. Yes the X-men didn't have an easy time fighting him, but that's immaterial because "drama" and "stakes" were somehow absent in a movie that featured the entire planet literally crumbling around us.

This brings me to a larger point; I walked out of X-men Apocalypse with the distinct impression that they made a diet-Marvel Studios film, particularly since it featured a generic villain with a generic plan. I thought, "wow, this is going to be mauled by the crowd who doesn't care for the MCU as this is pretty much Fox's weak attempt at recreating that formula".

I've found that the opposite has been true - a lot of the same people who rag on each MCU film give this a pass. I don't understand it. If Apocalypse had a Marvel Studios logo in front of it, I truly believe that the titular villain, and the movie as a whole, wouldn't be receiving this sort of defense from a handful of people around here. Maybe not necessarily in this thread, but I've observed it on the hype on several occasions.

And before any of you tell me how much I'd love Apocalypse if he were a Marvel villain...

I'd put Ultron and Apocalypse around the same level in terms of villains. Both were relatively generic, but pretty fun to watch. However, Age of Ultron was a considerably better movie.

I should also say that I understand that what I'm saying is controversial and somewhat accusatory, but it's how I honestly feel and I'd like for the merits of Apocalypse as a villain to be explained. What I'm seeing is a group of people who look at one dish served up by one chef and unanimously go "yuck!"; these same ingredients are then served up by a different chef in a very similar (and overall worse in my opinion, but that's another conversation) dish, but for some reason it works now? That's why I think, for some, it's about the chef and not the food itself. I don't get it, and I'm respectfully positing this opinion to see any counter-arguments.

Secondly, Quicksilver's death means nothing, because it was quickly followed by another joke

"It's been a long day" is a joke?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Apocalypse was so silly, never felt any kind of threat from him, he had all the nukes in the world and then.....he just leaves them there in space.....what....and the makeup on Oscar's face was so bad, i laughed everytime he was on screen, oh but wait he also gave the horsemen their costumes, so threating, such fear, what a villian, there's NOTHING memorable about Apocalypse.

I thought that Apocalypse had one really good scene. When he's recruiting Magneto and he just wipes out the steel workers in an instant. Other than that, there wasn't much there.