Is there too much division in America?

[BlackLantern]

If you do oppose abortion and gay marriage...I would gather people want more of an answer as to why(Not that you're obligated to provide one)....and waving the bible around doesn't fly in todays world...nor should it factor in when the government is legislating those things....but it's not a perfect world....

 

[Nitehawk013]

Why should the definition of marriage, which has been a man and a woman for as long as there has been what we would consider "civilization", be changed just so a group that chooses to live in abnormal behavior can feel better about their choice? No one saying they can't partake of their sexual relations of choice. No one saying they can't do whatever they want to do with whomever they choose to do it in their own homes. Simply saying "No marriage will remain a man and a woman".

There is no reason they shouldn't just accept that society wants marriage to be between a man and a woman. They can legally make arrangements in the case of property and such. They can legally attain most of the "rights" they say they are being deprived without changing the definition of marriage.

The fact is, they just want marriage so as to legitimize thier lifestyles. They want to thumb their noses at the majority who don't live that way.

 

[The Senator]

Why should the definition of marriage, which has been a man and a woman for as long as there has been what we would consider "civilization", be changed just so a group that chooses to live in abnormal behavior can feel better about their choice? No one saying they can't partake of their sexual relations of choice. No one saying they can't do whatever they want to do with whomever they choose to do it in their own homes. Simply saying "No marriage will remain a man and a woman".

There is no reason they shouldn't just accept that society wants marriage to be between a man and a woman. They can legally make arrangements in the case of property and such. They can legally attain most of the "rights" they say they are being deprived without changing the definition of marriage.

The fact is, they just want marriage so as to legitimize thier lifestyles. They want to thumb their noses at the majority who don't live that way.

Why should we have allowed black people the same rights as white people? After all, western society felt blacks were savages and deserved to be enslaved for centuries... I guess because the majority of white people felt that slavery was perfectly acceptable, it was wrong for the United States to allow blacks to live freely and have access to the same opportunities as whites...

What a crazy world we live in.

 

[BlackLantern]

I think a lot of it has to do with things like transfer of property, custody of children, health benefits, hospital visits....I read a story out of Virginia about a lesbian couple, one of which had a daughter and was estranged from her parents...the mother of the child was killed in an accident and her parents filed for custody of the child, even though they had not spoken to their daughter or ever met their grandchild.....so the child was taken away from the home and given to people that had never known the child....at the end, the custody claim was overturned and the child was given back to the partner....its things like that why gay couples want to be "married"

 

[Nitehawk013]

Why should we have allowed black people the same rights as white people? After all, western society felt blacks were savages and deserved to be enslaved for centuries... I guess because the majority of white people felt that slavery was perfectly acceptable, it was wrong for the United States to allow blacks to live freely and have access to the same opportunities as whites...

What a crazy world we live in.

They don't choose to be black.

Until they find a "gay gene", which the HUman Genome Project failed to do, homosexuality is a choice.

And before someone tries the "why would someone choose a lifestyle that is so hated" look around. Millions choose lifestyles that will bring them nothing but mockery and put downs and alienation. Take a look at the folks who go "goth" or the people who decide they need tattoos over every inch of their body, or the metal heads who pirce everything they can possibly pierce. All chosen, all abnormal and all bringon nothign but mockery, put downs, alienation, parental avoidance, etc. Just like homsexuality.

 

[BlackLantern]

I hate repeating myself...but here goes...No one can conclusively say that 100 percent of people choose to be gay or that 100 percent of people are born gay....I think some people are born that way...and I know someone for whom it is a choice....

 

[Addendum]

Why should the definition of marriage, which has been a man and a woman for as long as there has been what we would consider "civilization", be changed just so a group that chooses to live in abnormal behavior can feel better about their choice? No one saying they can't partake of their sexual relations of choice. No one saying they can't do whatever they want to do with whomever they choose to do it in their own homes. Simply saying "No marriage will remain a man and a woman".

There is no reason they shouldn't just accept that society wants marriage to be between a man and a woman. They can legally make arrangements in the case of property and such. They can legally attain most of the "rights" they say they are being deprived without changing the definition of marriage.

The fact is, they just want marriage so as to legitimize thier lifestyles. They want to thumb their noses at the majority who don't live that way.

There are records of gay marriages since there has been what we would call "civilization" as well.

Gay marriage has no effect on your life at all. It doesn't weaken any other marriage, nor will it cause irreparable damage to religious institutions. One doesn't need religious approval to get married.

The "reasons" why same-sex marriage shouldn't be recognized or allowed don't hold any merit

 

[Nitehawk013]

I think a lot of it has to do with things like transfer of property, custody of children, health benefits, hospital visits....I read a story out of Virginia about a lesbian couple, one of which had a daughter and was estranged from her parents...the mother of the child was killed in an accident and her parents filed for custody of the child, even though they had not spoken to their daughter or ever met their grandchild.....so the child was taken away from the home and given to people that had never known the child....at the end, the custody claim was overturned and the child was given back to the partner....its things like that why gay couples want to be "married"

True, but grandparents in many states can file for custody of a grandchild in those same cicumstances in a straight couple (even when unmarried) if they feel the surviving parent is not fit to have custody.

 

[Kurosawa]

Here's why gay marriage should be legal: point to one thing about it that is legitimately harmful to society. You can't.

 

[BlackLantern]

True, but grandparents in many states can file for custody of a grandchild in those same cicumstances in a straight couple (even when unmarried) if they feel the surviving parent is not fit to have custody.

..but that wasn't the case...both women had good jobs and provided a sound home environment.....I have to dig around for the article, but apparently the judge that granted the initial custody order violated some rule or something.....and it was overturned when all parties went to court...and like I said...they were estranged from their daughter...I think they hadn't spoken to her in about 9 or 10 years....the child never even knew her grandparents...how is that a stable environment for the child??

 

[Nitehawk013]

I hate repeating myself...but here goes...No one can conclusively say that 100 percent of people choose to be gay or that 100 percent of people are born gay....I think some people are born that way...and I know someone for whom it is a choice....

I can agree in part. If there is no genetic proof, and there is not to this point, that being gay is genetic then they either choose it or we take it on "faith" that they are born that way. I don't buy it. My opinion is that it is choice, either consciously or un conscioulsy by means of upbringing and surroundings. Nurture rather than nature.

 

[BlackLantern]

What about twins that are raised together and one is gay and one straight?? they have both been exposed to the same environment and upbringing....

I personally believe marriage should be defined as a union between 2 consenting adults...and adults...none of this "emancipated teenager" crap....

 

[The Senator]

They don't choose to be black.

Until they find a "gay gene", which the HUman Genome Project failed to do, homosexuality is a choice.

And before someone tries the "why would someone choose a lifestyle that is so hated" look around. Millions choose lifestyles that will bring them nothing but mockery and put downs and alienation. Take a look at the folks who go "goth" or the people who decide they need tattoos over every inch of their body, or the metal heads who pirce everything they can possibly pierce. All chosen, all abnormal and all bringon nothign but mockery, put downs, alienation, parental avoidance, etc. Just like homsexuality.

You completely missed the point I was making, which was this: The majority of white people in the United States supported slavery in early U.S. history. As you can tell by that model, chastising minorities solely because the majority believes it is acceptable is an inadequate excuse to treat people like inferiors unworthy of the same rights as everyone else.

Additionally, the reason why they were enslaved had very little to do with their skin color, but actually their lack of acceptance in God and Christ. They were enslaved because they were "savages" who needed "proper guidance," and were put under the "apprenticeship" of wealthy white elitists. Of course, such apprenticeship did not result in proper education but instead hundreds of years of horror.

Maybe you should look past the Fourth Grade rationale for slavery and actually pick up a few history books on the subject?

 

[Kurosawa]

I can agree in part. If there is no genetic proof, and there is not to this point, that being gay is genetic then they either choose it or we take it on "faith" that they are born that way. I don't buy it. My opinion is that it is choice, either consciously or un conscioulsy by means of upbringing and surroundings. Nurture rather than nature.

There's tons of gay people from families with conservative values.

 

[BlackLantern]

Lynn Cheney for one ^^^^

 

[BlackLantern]

edit double post

 

[The Senator]

Lynn Cheney for one ^^^^

She just needs a proper gunshot to the face

 

[SuBe]

She just needs a proper gunshot to the face

That's not nice.

 

[The Senator]

That's not nice.

 

[kedrell]

And Karl Rove is still walking around.

So is William Ayers.

 

[kedrell]

Personally I don't see gays as any different from a whole host of other people who have unusual sexual fetishes. I also don't think the guy who's into getting his butt kicked by a domina was born that way either.

I also wouldn't be in favor of polygamists being allowed to marry, even if they're heterosexuals.

 

[BlackLantern]

I don't get polygamy....at all....

 

[The Battousai]

Personally I don't see gays as any different from a whole host of other people who have unusual sexual fetishes. I also don't think the guy who's into getting his butt kicked by a domina was born that way either.

I also wouldn't be in favor of polygamists being allowed to marry, even if they're heterosexuals.

...despite the scientific evidence for homosexuality being genetic...

 

[The Senator]

Personally I don't see gays as any different from a whole host of other people who have unusual sexual fetishes. I also don't think the guy who's into getting his butt kicked by a domina was born that way either.

I also wouldn't be in favor of polygamists being allowed to marry, even if they're heterosexuals.

The government should have no jurisdiction over the love lives of consenting adults.

 

[BlackLantern]

I'd like for condoms to be a write off on my taxes