Fant4stic "It's Clobberin' Time!" - The Ben "Thing" Grimm Thread

[The Question]

Um, why not? They have a cast that fits the UFF in age, and look far more than 616.

That might be the only influence the Ultimate Universe has. The Ultimate Universe influenced plenty of aesthetic choices in the MCU, and even a few plot choices, but the heart and soul was still thoroughly 616. The Avengers were brought together by SHIELD, which was run by a black, bald, Samuel L. Jackson looking Nick Fury, with a Hulk who was the result of a flawed attempt to recreate the Super Soldier formula and a Hawkeye and Black Widow who were partners and SHIELD agents, but they were in the end miles away from being anything like The Ultimates.

Sure, they probably saw something in UFF they liked and adapted it. That doesn't mean UFF will be their sole or even primary influence. Like most comic book movies, they might take bits and pieces from across all iterations of the franchise that they like and that they think work to built it to their tastes.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

saw that there will be a young Ben Grimm in the movie somewhere.

I liked seeing young Magneto, Raven and Charles in First Class, will be cool to see a flashback of Ben.

That might be the only influence the Ultimate Universe has. The Ultimate Universe influenced plenty of aesthetic choices in the MCU, and even a few plot choices, but the heart and soul was still thoroughly 616. The Avengers were brought together by SHIELD, which was run by a black, bald, Samuel L. Jackson looking Nick Fury, with a Hulk who was the result of a flawed attempt to recreate the Super Soldier formula and a Hawkeye and Black Widow who were partners and SHIELD agents, but they were in the end miles away from being anything like The Ultimates.

Sure, they probably saw something in UFF they liked and adapted it. That doesn't mean UFF will be their sole or even primary influence. Like most comic book movies, they might take bits and pieces from across all iterations of the franchise that they like and that they think work to built it to their tastes.

Lifting from the Ultimate universe is only bad when studios other that Marvel do it apparently

 

[Kelly]

No, the UFF is far different from 616 in many areas, I can see where fans of 616 are not happy that the movie seems to be headed in a UFF mode. And I don't think its right to make little snide remarks that belittle that....those fans would like for Marvel to have a shot at the F4. IF they went a UFF style movie like this one seems to be headed, you would be hearing the same critiques. They are some of the same fans that were not happy with the first two films...WHY? because they are very much fans of 616 and there was things like the look of Thing, Doom, etc that sent them through the roof. So, really stop with the "if Marvel did it...." crap because it just isn't what is going on here...Marvel is simply the studio that has eyes on the F4. If Sony was looking to take over, they would be looking to Sony for a more 616 feel, if Sony didn't take it that direction, you would be hearing the same exact stuff.

 

[Kelly]

That might be the only influence the Ultimate Universe has. The Ultimate Universe influenced plenty of aesthetic choices in the MCU, and even a few plot choices, but the heart and soul was still thoroughly 616. The Avengers were brought together by SHIELD, which was run by a black, bald, Samuel L. Jackson looking Nick Fury, with a Hulk who was the result of a flawed attempt to recreate the Super Soldier formula and a Hawkeye and Black Widow who were partners and SHIELD agents, but they were in the end miles away from being anything like The Ultimates.

Sure, they probably saw something in UFF they liked and adapted it. That doesn't mean UFF will be their sole or even primary influence. Like most comic book movies, they might take bits and pieces from across all iterations of the franchise that they like and that they think work to built it to their tastes.

Nope, looking more and more like UFF to me...

 

[Paradox1]

They were never going to do a origin movie based on 616 after doing the last one on the same premise. It's a severely outdated origin for today's world. At the time astronauts use to be rock star, but today you'd be hard pressed to name the last person in space. Then on top of that our knowledge of space has grown so much. Any technical advisor in the production of this movie will tell them space travel is decades away.

 

[wobbly]

And interdimentional portals are right round the corner...

 

[Kelly]

They were never going to do a origin movie based on 616 after doing the last one on the same premise. It's a severely outdated origin for today's world. At the time astronauts use to be rock star, but today you'd be hard pressed to name the last person in space. Then on top of that our knowledge of space has grown so much. Any technical advisor in the production of this movie will tell them space travel is decades away.

I actually only remember maybe two people from the first movies that were upset that they were not doing the origin exactly as the 616 comics. Most of the uproar at first was Alba, and then the pic of Thing came out and about blew up the hype, and then Doom. Thing and Doom were the biggest cries of "holy crap" from the 616 fans. Then the script was leaked from the first movie and holy chaos erupted....but not much bellowing about not doing a 1960's origin.

 

[Paradox1]

And interdimentional portals are right round the corner...

There is so much unknown about it. That it's very open to wide amounts of speculation. There is no consensus about anything about it from it's actual existance to the technology needed to make it a reality. It's the cosmic rays it's the radiation, of the 50-60's origin stories.

I actually only remember maybe two people from the first movies that were upset that they were not doing the origin exactly as the 616 comics. Most of the uproar at first was Alba, and then the pic of Thing came out and about blew up the hype, and then Doom. Thing and Doom were the biggest cries of "holy crap" from the 616 fans. Then the script was leaked from the first movie and holy chaos erupted....but not much bellowing about not doing a 1960's origin.

It's the same premise as the 616 of four friends going in space and coming back to earth with superpowers. So I don't see your point

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I would be fine with an inter-dimensional portal as the source of their powers as long as the characters were closer to 616 and there wasn't a hokey, cliché shadowy government agency involved.

I also don't want Doom to get powers from that same portal, but I have feeling we're headed directly for those trite UFF elements.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

And since this is the Ben Grimm thread, this might be an appropriate place for one of my biggest pet peeves with UFF.

In the 616 version, Reed and Ben have a deep, long and meaningful friendship prior to the accident. In the UFF version, Reed and Ben know each other in Jr. high school and then are separated when Reed is taken away to the ridiculous 'think tank' and they meet up again just before the accident.

In the 616 version, Reed cajoles Ben into joining him on his ambitious mission and when things go wrong, it's much more clearly Reed's fault and there's the great dynamic of deep friendship combined with Ben's bitterness and Reed's guilt. Those key elements of the fascinating Reed/Ben dynamic are discarded in the shallowly-written UFF.

 

[Paradox1]

The way it's written in 616 they definitely got a bromance going on.

 

[Kelly]

There is so much unknown about it. That it's very open to wide amounts of speculation. There is no consensus about anything about it from it's actual existance to the technology needed to make it a reality. It's the cosmic rays it's the radiation, of the 50-60's origin stories.



It's the same premise as the 616 of four friends going in space and coming back to earth with superpowers. So I don't see your point

The first movie had MANY elements that were different from 616 and the 2004 film, and further differences I'm sure with this film.

1. Sue was a scientist not a stowaway actress with her teenage brother.
2. Johnny was a pilot, not a stowaway teenager with his actress sister.
3. Victor
4. 2004 not the 1960's
5. Going up as researchers, not a space race with the Soviet Union

So, no....not really the same premise.

I think we are going to (IF WE EVER SEE ANYTHING FROM THE FILMING...LOL) much more on this origin take and how it is different than we did on the first movie....but I think most of that will come simply from the fact that the 616 fans, want THAT GROUP OF 4, not a younger, hipper group of 4. And from that, problems will arise. BUT, HEY....if this young group can pull off a great chemistry, and the writers don't rely so much on being cool, and more on relationship...then I think some of that griping can be lessened. THEN, really slam dunk Thing and Dooms look, along with Doom's arrogance and that will go a long way as well. But the origins from 616, to the 2004 film, to the UFF are different. Yes there are 4, yes cosmic rays, but far different. I would venture to say that the 2004 film and UFF will probably be much more similar in origin than either of those two and 616 origin. Simply because of time periods among other things.

 

[Paradox1]

The first movie had MANY elements that were different from 616 and the 2004 film, and further differences I'm sure with this film.

1. Sue was a scientist not a stowaway actress with her teenage brother.
2. Johnny was a pilot, not a stowaway teenager with his actress sister.
3. Victor
4. 2004 not the 1960's
5. Going up as researchers, not a space race with the Soviet Union

So, no....not really the same premise.

I think we are going to (IF WE EVER SEE ANYTHING FROM THE FILMING...LOL) much more on this origin take and how it is different than we did on the first movie....but I think most of that will come simply from the fact that the 616 fans, want THAT GROUP OF 4, not a younger, hipper group of 4. And from that, problems will arise. BUT, HEY....if this young group can pull off a great chemistry, and the writers don't rely so much on being cool, and more on relationship...then I think some of that griping can be lessened. THEN, really slam dunk Thing and Dooms look, along with Doom's arrogance and that will go a long way as well. But the origins from 616, to the 2004 film, to the UFF are different. Yes there are 4, yes cosmic rays, but far different. I would venture to say that the 2004 film and UFF will probably be much more similar in origin than either of those two and 616 origin. Simply because of time periods among other things.

The premise in film making and screenplays is the like main idea.Its the concept that drives the whole plot. It can usually be written in one sentence. Thats why I say the premise is the same as 616, the details don't even matter in a premise. So my fault I should of been more clear in my use of the word.

Another reason I believe the cast is so young is they will probably be doing these movies for 10yrs or so. Allowing for a more natural progression for Reed for example. A CGI Thing at least aesthetically is going to be a huge upgrade. Acting wise Jaime has a lot to live up to because I thought Michael Chilkis did an excellent job.

As far as Toby, he just needs good material with it he'll knock it out of the park. The dialogue is on Kinberg but with his track record it surely looks promising to me. However I can't be certain I thought Green Lantern might be good. That didn't turn it well somehow with everyone ranting and raving about the script.

 

[Kelly]

The premise in film making and screenplays is the like main idea.Its the concept that drives the whole plot. It can usually be written in one sentence. Thats why I say the premise is the same as 616, the details don't even matter in a premise. So my fault I should of been more clear in my use of the word.

Another reason I believe the cast is so young is they will probably be doing these movies for 10yrs or so. Allowing for a more natural progression for Reed for example. A CGI Thing at least aesthetically is going to be a huge upgrade. Acting wise Jaime has a lot to live up to because I thought Michael Chilkis did an excellent job.

As far as Toby, he just needs good material with it he'll knock it out of the park. The dialogue is on Kinberg but with his track record it surely looks promising to me. However I can't be certain I thought Green Lantern might be good. That didn't turn it well somehow with everyone ranting and raving about the script.

I can agree with everything you have said, if I knew the work of the actors better, and I don't so I don't really speak to much to that when giving an opinion. I've read some of the UFF....and whether you think that having 4 people, with some kind of relationship, who get their powers from cosmic rays is enough, that is perfectly fine....more power to ya. But, I know the fans on this forum, I've known many of them going on 10 years now, and that is NOT going to be enough. There are those who want a 616 rendering on film of this comic, not just the premise, they want the base yes, but that base is far more than 4 people....it is a base that is 4 people who have known each other over a long period of time, and that relationship has grown and is strong going INTO the point of when they get their powers. Not so much a 1960s story behind it, but something that is built on that relationship, basic artistic rendering and basic storyline of the 616 comics. They are NOT going to get that from what we have seen....

Will it be a good movie, very possibly. Will it be a great adaptation of the UFF? very possible.....but will it be what the fans I'm speaking of want? Probably not....and nothing thus far has led me to believe any differently.

I am happy for those that are fine with what they have seen so far, but to try and explain to 616 fans HOW this film is going to be something they will love or even like....right now is futile. Maybe if they have seen a few pics here and there, but already simply with the cast, no space ship it seems, etc...their hopes are certainly not moving in a positive direction. The details DO MATTER....they matter a lot, to those who have grown up with the group of 4 over several decades in some cases, the details matter more than anything. You gotta respect that....I certainly do.

 

[Orba]

They definitely seem to be going with a UFF adaption, I notice today that the extras list today mentions "Baxter Students". As for the 616 space origin I don't think it would be hard to modernise it, there are loads of private enterprises trying to get into space for lots or reasons. There is space tourism, private companies launching satellites, research etc, its an area that is worth a lot of money atm. It wouldn't take much to adapt the 616 origin to that background. Maybe the "space race" could be against a rival company/scientist.

Its strange that they say that they want a real and grounded film then go with the origin that I would say is the least grounded.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

As for the 616 space origin I don't think it would be hard to modernise it, there are loads of private enterprises trying to get into space for lots or reasons. There is space tourism, private companies launching satellites, research etc, its an area that is worth a lot of money atm. It wouldn't take much to adapt the 616 origin to that background. Maybe the "space race" could be against a rival company/scientist.

Absolutely. The 616 story could easlily be updated without changing all the relationships and backstories of the characters as drastically as UFF did.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Will it be a good movie, very possibly. Will it be a great adaptation of the UFF? very possible.....but will it be what the fans I'm speaking of want? Probably not....and nothing thus far has led me to believe any differently.

A good movie that doesn't depict the Fantastic Four isn't a good Fantastic Four movie. That's a relatively simple concept that many seem to brush aside as if a good movie is all that's needed.

I loved Fight Club. I thought Fight Club was a great movie. If they called Fight Club 'Fantastic Four' it wouldn't suddenly become a great Fantastic Four film.

 

[Kelly]

A good movie that doesn't depict the Fantastic Four isn't a good Fantastic Four movie. That's a relatively simple concept that many seem to brush aside as if a good movie is all that's needed.

I loved Fight Club. I thought Fight Club was a great movie. If they called Fight Club 'Fantastic Four' it wouldn't suddenly become a great Fantastic Four film.

I'm looking at this from a GA perspective...I totally understand the CB fan's perspective, I've been around it now for 10 years....BUT, it could very well be a well developed, well acted, movie. I have enjoyed historical movies that were well acted, well written, but bore little resemblance to their origin. if the acting, CGI, script is BETTER than the first 2 movies, but still not a 616 rendering? There will be people that will enjoy it....and they will call it the F4. That is my point, to the 616 fans, it WILL NOT BE an F4 movie, but to the GA, possibly UFF fans, it very well may be just that for them.

I am a huge reader, and I'm always scared when a book I really enjoyed is brought to the big screen. An example of this was "A Walk To Remember"....I loved the book, but the movie was almost nothing like the book except it was a love story between a girl and boy, she was terminally ill, he falls in love with her....the rest was totally different, totally different time period etc.... but it ended up being a very well done movie that I have cried, laughed and enjoyed watching it again. Sometimes that isn't the case, sometimes the movie is JUST NOT GOOD whether it depicts the book as I remember or it doesn't. In the end I saw a great movie called "A Walk To Remember", but I did not see an adaptation on screen of the book I had read of same title.

IMO, this movie could go either of those ways.....but thus far, it doesn't look like it is a movie that 616 fans will be happy with.....

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm looking at this from a GA perspective...I totally understand the CB fan's perspective, I've been around it now for 10 years....BUT, it could very well be a well developed, well acted, movie. I have enjoyed historical movies that were well acted, well written, but bore little resemblance to their origin. if the acting, CGI, script is BETTER than the first 2 movies, but still not a 616 rendering? There will be people that will enjoy it....and they will call it the F4. That is my point, to the 616 fans, it WILL NOT BE an F4 movie, but to the GA, possibly UFF fans, it very well may be just that for them.

I am a huge reader, and I'm always scared when a book I really enjoyed is brought to the big screen. An example of this was "A Walk To Remember"....I loved the book, but the movie was almost nothing like the book except it was a love story between a girl and boy, she was terminally ill, he falls in love with her....the rest was totally different, totally different time period etc.... but it ended up being a very well done movie that I have cried, laughed and enjoyed watching it again. Sometimes that isn't the case, sometimes the movie is JUST NOT GOOD whether it depicts the book as I remember or it doesn't. In the end I saw a great movie called "A Walk To Remember", but I did not see an adaptation on screen of the book I had read of same title.

IMO, this movie could go either of those ways.....but thus far, it doesn't look like it is a movie that 616 fans will be happy with.....

With something like that, I often have to give it a some time and then see it a second time. Whenever I go into something with expectations and it doesn't meet those expectations, it's hard to enjoy it no matter how good it is otherwise. But after I've given some time for my expectations to adjust, I can go back and enjoy it for what it actually was as opposed to what I wanted it to be.

But even if I remove my personal feelings and expectations, I honestly have a hard time believing a UFF origin story - even if it's well done - will appeal to a broad audience. With each passing year, the bar for these films is being raised, and I don't think people really want to see another story of superheroes discovering and learning to cope with their powers.

 

[Kelly]

Oh, I totally agree.....if they are going to do a UFF story, I would much rather them take one of the more intriguing arcs and go with it, with some backstory if needed. I only say that since it does seem they are intent on going UFF, so just starting from where the 2nd left off isn't going to happen....

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I can agree with everything you have said, if I knew the work of the actors better, and I don't so I don't really speak to much to that when giving an opinion. I've read some of the UFF....and whether you think that having 4 people, with some kind of relationship, who get their powers from cosmic rays is enough, that is perfectly fine....more power to ya. But, I know the fans on this forum, I've known many of them going on 10 years now, and that is NOT going to be enough. There are those who want a 616 rendering on film of this comic, not just the premise, they want the base yes, but that base is far more than 4 people....it is a base that is 4 people who have known each other over a long period of time, and that relationship has grown and is strong going INTO the point of when they get their powers. Not so much a 1960s story behind it, but something that is built on that relationship, basic artistic rendering and basic storyline of the 616 comics. They are NOT going to get that from what we have seen....

Will it be a good movie, very possibly. Will it be a great adaptation of the UFF? very possible.....but will it be what the fans I'm speaking of want? Probably not....and nothing thus far has led me to believe any differently.

I am happy for those that are fine with what they have seen so far, but to try and explain to 616 fans HOW this film is going to be something they will love or even like....right now is futile. Maybe if they have seen a few pics here and there, but already simply with the cast, no space ship it seems, etc...their hopes are certainly not moving in a positive direction. The details DO MATTER....they matter a lot, to those who have grown up with the group of 4 over several decades in some cases, the details matter more than anything. You gotta respect that....I certainly do.

This whole line of thinking confuses me(I'm certainly not saying anyone has to like anything) cause it sounds like we're in the early days of comic book films for this to make sense.

At this point, we've seen all these "scary" scenarios play out with other comic films. Mostly Hulk and Incredible Hulk. Both of them played with the two strongest interpretations of the character (repressed anger and the Hitchhiker) and still sucked.

It's just transference. The UFF sucked ergo anything based off it will suck.

That's crazy. Cause there's no evidence of any studio at this point heavily basing their comic films on the Ultimate Universe story lines that I remember. I don't remember "GRAND THEFT AMERICA", "THE HULK DOES MANHATTAN", "RETURN TO WEAPON X" , "VENOM".

Nothing from the Ultimate Universe except the visuals have made it onto the big screen in any major. Hollywood is more likely to just make it up.


The fact that fans aren't getting the FF they want has less to do with UFF/Trank than it does that Fox bungled the the first attempt and did use a lot of the classic FF visuals.


Basically just misdirected anger.

 

[EssayM]

Bell did an interview with Vanity Fair where he makes a couple brief mentions about FF:

"And something like Fantastic Four, it stretches you as an actor. It’s going to be such a challenge. In some ways I’m going to have to do things I’ve never done before..."

[On Andy Serkis's mocap work] "I’ve seen it firsthand, like when we did Kong together and we were using similar kind of technology, I’m assuming, to what we’ll be using on Fantastic Four..."

http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/jamie-bell-interview-turn

 

[psylockolussus]

I can't wait to see Jamie Bell as The Thing! He's probably the one that I'm looking forward the most in the cast.

 

[Paradox1]

I don't know if this official or just some fan-made mold but I like it

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I don't know if this official or just some fan-made mold but I like it

That's a limited edition bust that I believe sold for about $500 from Sideshow Collectibles several years ago. Probably the best 3 dimensional Thing rendering I've ever seen.