James Bond: 007 - Spectre - Part 10

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A lot of people disliked Quantum of Solace as well, it's not like people are just picking on Spectre.

Yup. I enjoyed Quantum a lot more than Spectre. My issue with Spectre has nothing to do with Skyfall. I just thought this new movie was way longer than it should have been and I disliked the "Door #1 vs. Door #2" scenario that we have seen run into the ground by superhero movies and whatnot. Didn't need to see it again.
 
I haven't seen the film yet, but I have one question: Is Bond's origin story finally over?

Yup. The learning curve is pretty much done. Our little 007 has grown up. Bond seems very secure in who he is, and arguably even a little bored and complacent with his work.
 
Yup. The learning curve is pretty much done. Our little 007 has grown up. Bond seems very secure in who he is, and arguably even a little bored and complacent with his work.

Alright.
 
Yup. The learning curve is pretty much done. Our little 007 has grown up. Bond seems very secure in who he is, and arguably even a little bored and complacent with his work.
Too bad the director and writers seemed that way as well.
 
One of the film's problems is that I think Mendes and co. had a bunch of ideas that should have been used to rewrite the script as they went along. Like Batista's Mr. Hinx; Mendes and Batista clearly decided to make him intelligent and clever, but nobody had the initiative to order the kind of on-set rewrites that might have benefitted the character. It seems indicative of disinterest in the story and innovation that were major components of ten previous three films.

- One of issues with Spectre here is that it's presentation is just the same one we've seen in the 60s and in the Austin Powers movies; the Quantum organization had a great deal of imagination in its creation. It felt modern and updated, all things that were missing from Spectre. I loved having everyone scared of Oberhauser, but it would have been better to have him mysterious until the end, and then give him serious and consecutive screen time.

- The entire Spectre base felt like a parody to me; that may be a generational thing, since I was a pre-teen and teenager when I watched the original movies and the Austin Powers series. Again the execution was cool, but it felt so banal and generic. Bloefeld had a freakin volcano lair in the 60s; a crater housed hipster palace ain't going to cut it. And since they're most atmospheric area was the bombed out remains of the original M-I6 building, that would have made a better and more surprising HQ.

- The train sequence just felt weak to me. The romance angle is a pale imitation of Casino Royale, and while Seydoux is good, she's not portrayed in any way that would really surprise you, instead going through the kind of clichéd "will you ever leave this life? conversation that showed up in 1980's Schwartzenegger. Then Hinx shows up for a fight that seems fun, but has no tension. In fact, it's perfunctory, not fun; like the script writer said "okay, enough of that, time to try and recapture some From Russia With Love magic!" Imagine how much better it would have been if we saw both men getting serious injuries as the fight progressed, and maybe even end it on a serious "Bond can't do the horizontal mambo right now, he's in serious pain" note.

- And the climax is really sad compared to the previous film entries. Bang bang, game's over. Seriously, that was kind of sad.

- And one thing that just sticks in my craw is how they handled the exposition and the tying of the film's together. You've got Mr. White, the direct link to CR and QoS, and to the Quantum organization; why not just have him provide a quick briefing of the ties between the groups. Or Oberhauser's grudge; have Bond explain it to Swan, maybe give us some serious first hand context for all of that. But if they focused on making it sound better, they might have realized how they went too far with some of the reveals; there's no real way to sweep Silva's autonomy under the rug like they tried. There should have at least been some kind of "Spectre found a man with common interests and funded him" explanation, but instead they try to retcon him.
 
Exactly where in SKYFALL was Silva's autonomy all that important? I mean, Blofeld clearly liked his distance (remote desert compound), but still took part in SPECTRE. Who’s to say Silva couldn’t be similar?

The important elements with Silva were his past with MI6, his resulting disillusionment with the service and M, and the ease of access to information, systems, etc via his computer work.

Silva says to Bond “You could pick your own secret missions”. He never implies that he doesn’t work with, or for anyone else. What Silva does fits perfectly into the realm of SPECTRE and its operations.
 
Yeah. But they have Bloefeld imply that he basically ordered a hit on M, while Silva's whole thing was his obsessive need for revenge on her himself. Him working with or even for Spectre wasn't a bad call; implying that Spectre set him on the attack is. It's not huge, but it smacks of far more ridiculous padding in a weak part of the script than neccesary. You want Oberhauser to be gleeful about hurting Bind by killing M? Just have him laugh at how unexpectantly successful Silva was. Trying to demote the bad guy, even implicitly, is a bad move when the one being demoted was much better executed than the one he's now retroactively jobbing for.
 
One can safely see that Blofeld... initiated Le Chiffre into the games and built Vesper's need for betrayal, started Greene's acquisitions, and let Silva have enough power to go about his own revenge against M... all hurting Bond directly but merely being a chess player and not the actual pieces.
 
Anyone started laughing at the finale when Bond was shooting down gallery's with the mugs of his previous villains?

Cringeworthy.
 
I just got back from seeing it.I will take minority view.I liked Spectre best out of craig films.It is defently the craig version of classic bond.

The weakness is trying to force personal connection between you know who
and Bond.

Here goes my ranking of all the bond films including never say never again with Spectre added

From Russia with love
Goldeneye
You only Live twice
On her majestry's Secret Service
The World Is Not Enough
For Your Eyes Only
The Spy Who Loved Me
Spectre
Dr No
Goldfinger
Thunderball
Skyfall
Tomorrow Never Dies
Octopussy
Casino Royale
Never Say Never Again
Die Another Day
Licence to Kill
The Living Daylights
Live and let Die
A View To A Kill
Moonraker
Quontum of Solace
The Man With The Golden Gun
Diamonds Are Forever
 
Anyone started laughing at the finale when Bond was shooting down gallery's with the mugs of his previous villains?

Cringeworthy.
The headshots were so bad. They looked like promotional material, because they probably were. My brother called it, "SPECTRE, with cameos from Casino Royale and Skyfall".

I also thought it was funny that they kept ignoring Quantum of Solace. One pic of Greene and the mention of Quantum. They didn't even put it in the opening credits. :funny:
 
Yeah. But they have Bloefeld imply that he basically ordered a hit on M, while Silva's whole thing was his obsessive need for revenge on her himself. Him working with or even for Spectre wasn't a bad call; implying that Spectre set him on the attack is. It's not huge, but it smacks of far more ridiculous padding in a weak part of the script than neccesary. You want Oberhauser to be gleeful about hurting Bind by killing M? Just have him laugh at how unexpectantly successful Silva was. Trying to demote the bad guy, even implicitly, is a bad move when the one being demoted was much better executed than the one he's now retroactively jobbing for.

Exactly :up:

The Silva connection was the only part of the Blofeld reveal that really bothered me, because it watered down Silva as a character.
 
The headshots were so bad. They looked like promotional material, because they probably were. My brother called it, "SPECTRE, with cameos from Casino Royale and Skyfall".

I also thought it was funny that they kept ignoring Quantum of Solace. One pic of Greene and the mention of Quantum. They didn't even put it in the opening credits. :funny:

I wish they just got Vesper, Le Chiffre, and Silva back in little flashbacks where we see them meet or get the simple 'idea' from Blofeld.

Those photos were a tad on the nose.
 
So, is it cool to admit that this did not over take Rogue Nation?

Ya'll can hang with Craig. I'm gonna watch Hunt hold on to a plane.
 
Yeah. But they have Bloefeld imply that he basically ordered a hit on M, while Silva's whole thing was his obsessive need for revenge on her himself. Him working with or even for Spectre wasn't a bad call; implying that Spectre set him on the attack is.

Blofeld says nothing of the kind.

How do you know Silva didn't come up with the idea/methods to kill M?

Where is there anything in SPECTRE that actually contradicts SKYFALL's motivations for Silva?

It's not huge, but it smacks of far more ridiculous padding in a weak part of the script than neccesary.

Padding? It's like a single line of dialogue.

You want Oberhauser to be gleeful about hurting Bind by killing M? Just have him laugh at how unexpectantly successful Silva was. Trying to demote the bad guy, even implicitly, is a bad move when the one being demoted was much better executed than the one he's now retroactively jobbing for.

It's not about Oberhauser being gleeful. The whole point was that they wanted SPECTRE connected.

How is Silva being "demoted", exactly? We don't know what position, if any, he held within SPECTRE. We don't know anything.

People seem to be making a lot of specific assumptions based on what was clearly supposed to be an ambiguous statement.
 
If Blofeld wanted Bond alive why are they trying to kill him both during the meeting in Rome and via Mr.Hinx on the train? :confused:
 
Anyone started laughing at the finale when Bond was shooting down gallery's with the mugs of his previous villains?

Cringeworthy.

I don't remember him actually shooting any of those. And I think the shooting gallery had mugshots of Bond, not his villains. I dunno, I might be misremembering. I thought the villain pictures, and the ones of Vesper and M, were in the office/interrogation chambers.
 
Exactly :up:

The Silva connection was the only part of the Blofeld reveal that really bothered me, because it watered down Silva as as character.

How?

What specific character aspects did it "water down"?
 
The headshots were so bad. They looked like promotional material, because they probably were. My brother called it, "SPECTRE, with cameos from Casino Royale and Skyfall".

It reminded me of the Rachel picture in TDKR that was clearly a promo pic.
 
I don't remember him actually shooting any of those. And I think the shooting gallery had mugshots of Bond, not his villains. I dunno, I might be misremembering. I thought the villain pictures, and the ones of Vesper and M, were in the office/interrogation chambers.
The shooting gallery had Bond pictures. The cells had the pics of everyone else.
 
How?

What specific character aspects did it "water down"?
Silva was a loose cannon, out for his own particular type of revenge. A revenge against an organization that drove him mad. He preaches to Bond about being his own man, able to do what he wants. Him being a part of SPECTRE completely contradicts that.
 
Silva was a loose cannon, out for his own particular type of revenge. A revenge against an organization that drove him mad. He preaches to Bond about being his own man, able to do what he wants. Him being a part of SPECTRE completely contradicts that.

No it doesn't.

Silva implies that he picks his own secret missions, and does what he wants. He never, at any point, implies that he doesn't work with anyone else. His guards and so on and him working with other people at various times during SKYFALL should be proof enough of that.

Being able to do what you want doesn't mean you never work with another organization.

It contradicts nothing.

And let's not forget...just because Blofeld SAYS something to Bond, that doesn't necessarily make it true. Could all just be part of his attempts to psychologically torture Bond.
 
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