Guardians of the Galaxy James gunn fired!!! - Part 1

[Zarex]

How did you react to the Sam Seder situation?

I thought it was disgraceful.

Did you spend a lot of time discussing it?

Not so much. A bit with the wife. I am definitely more vocal about Gunn's mistreatment due to my fandom, but I was strongly anti-Cernovich in both scenarios.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

He was an addict and he changed. So people can change, correct? Why is James Gunn different? Is the Darthskywalker I am talking to now the same guy he was 10 years ago? Did you ever think anything was funny when you were young Darth that you're not proud of now? Have you had moments you regret that you're glad people don't judge the entire basis of your character on?

To this degree? No. That is the thing, there are degrees here. It is one thing to be the ******* who always points out after midnight it is already "tomorrow". That is different then the guy who makes rape jokes about women and children. We are talking about the gun who writes Groot, and then use to make jokes about a tree raping a child. Also, it wasn't just ten years ago. I know the idea to minimize it to that, but this was happening even in 2012 apparently.

If this is all the same playing field, the concept that you can change no matter what you were. Are you outside of prisons advocating the release of everyone? This is an obvious exaggeration, but it is to point out, that if we are going to broaden the spectrum to the point that we are comparing someone with a disease to a grown 40 year old man making the decision to post about child rape.

Also if James Gunn believe this, why did he try to encourage the same thing be done to other people?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I thought it was disgraceful.



Not so much. A bit with the wife. I am definitely more vocal about Gunn's mistreatment due to my fandom, but I was strongly anti-Cernovich in both scenarios.

Why was that situation disgraceful to you?

 

[JtheDreamer]

To this degree? No. That is the thing, there are degrees here. It is one thing to be the ******* who always points out after midnight it is already "tomorrow". That is different then the guy who makes rape jokes about women and children. We are talking about the gun who writes Groot, and then use to make jokes about a tree raping a child. Also, it wasn't just ten years ago. I know the idea to minimize it to that, but this was happening even in 2012 apparently.

If this is all the same playing field, the concept that you can change no matter what you were. Are you outside of prisons advocating the release of everyone? This is an obvious exaggeration, but it is to point out, that if we are going to broaden the spectrum to the point that we are comparing someone with a disease to a grown 40 year old man making the decision to post about child rape.

Also if James Gunn believe this, why did he try to encourage the same thing be done to other people?

Because James Gunn is a hypocrite.

The guy had nearly 3 years to get in front of this thing and to cleanse his Twitter account. He chose not to. A fully contrite and changed man would have.

 

[Zarex]

Why was that situation disgraceful to you?

Because there was no "there" there. To quote the deplorables, it was a nothing burger. It was a clever joke mocking those who support the perpetrator of a horrible crime. Sam didn't deserve to be fired.

Anything else? Something about my mother?

Because James Gunn is a hypocrite.

The guy had nearly 3 years to get in front of this thing and to cleanse his Twitter account. He chose not to. A fully contrite and changed man would have.

So the "crime" wasn't the problem. It was the (lack of) cover up!

 

[AlluAllu]

Because James Gunn is a hypocrite.

The guy had nearly 3 years to get in front of this thing and to cleanse his Twitter account. He chose not to. A fully contrite and changed man would have.

Don't you think that a changed man could keep them findable for transparency of his history?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Because there was no "there" there. To quote the deplorables, it was a nothing burger. It was a clever joke mocking those who support the perpetrator of a horrible crime. Sam didn't deserve to be fired.

Anything else? Something about my mother?

Yes a clever joke showing irony. That isn't what Gunn did here.

Your mother?

So the "crime" wasn't the problem. It was the (lack of) cover up!

I don't think that was the point. I think the point was that he wasn't sorry until he needed to be sorry. It wasn't like he apologized on his own. It came up because someone else found it, and then suddenly he wanted to hide it. Like when he was called out for his blog post in 2012.

Even the two apologizes he came out with where different. One was kind of defending what he did, but he changed. Then it became that it wasn't defensible, he has changed, he didn't want to associate with that anymore. He got more apologetic as his job became more on the line.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Actually I feel like it would be more like the guy told me he went to jail, and I was cool hiring but he didn't tell us why he went to jail and maybe implied it wasn't as bad as one might come to find out. And then you find out you hired a someone who didn't disclose a crime that you wouldn't have hired him for.

Does anyone here really think that Bob Iger and Alan Horn knew the specifics of this 6 years ago? Honestly, by the speed of firing, I'd say not. Remember, Gunn never apologized for these tweets. It was that gross as hell blog post he made, that was sexist, homophobic and I also believe racist.

I also think this is a context thing, but the opposite way others might say. Like making gross past transgression and moving on when those things weren't considered so bad, doesn't change what you did and if context shows it as worse now, I think that matters. Just saying it was in the past, in a different climate, doesn't really change it imo.

I absolutely have no doubt Iger and co saw these when he was hired. I refuse to believe a billion dollar enterprise didn't vehemently check his Twitter.

To this degree? No. That is the thing, there are degrees here. It is one thing to be the ******* who always points out after midnight it is already "tomorrow". That is different then the guy who makes rape jokes about women and children. We are talking about the gun who writes Groot, and then use to make jokes about a tree raping a child. Also, it wasn't just ten years ago. I know the idea to minimize it to that, but this was happening even in 2012 apparently.

If this is all the same playing field, the concept that you can change no matter what you were. Are you outside of prisons advocating the release of everyone? This is an obvious exaggeration, but it is to point out, that if we are going to broaden the spectrum to the point that we are comparing someone with a disease to a grown 40 year old man making the decision to post about child rape.

Also if James Gunn believe this, why did he try to encourage the same thing be done to other people?

2012, 2008 , 1998, it doesn't matter. People change. There is no set time table as to when change can only occur between year X and year Y. 2008 RDJ was not the same guy 2001 RDJ was. We all change and evolve. James Gunn stopped doing it. Everyone says making the GotG films changed him. He was good to his cast and his crew. No parents complained about him doing anything improper and I sure he met many while on set of the movie.

I do believe any person is capable of change, no matter how awful they may be. Some crimes are too awful to be given a second chance, granted. But I don't think a few insensitive jokes you made when you were not as mature is one of them. Not every 40 year old is mature, just like not every 15 year old is immature. James Gunn by no accounts harmed or mistreated anyone while making these movies. It all stems from a Twitter war, and Twitter at this point is evolving into the digital wild west. It has no rules except mob rule. I do think that we all need to take a step back and look at things like this in more depth.

 

[AlluAllu]

But what would be the context? That he use to make jokes about the rape of children and adults online? That it was 6-10 years ago? Like I imagine taking this poll at the gates of the Disney parks, and I just don't think they go, "well in that case, its okay".

I think that important addition to that context would be Gunn's career at the time of the tweets. His twitter persona was probably part of his profession as a provocative entertainer.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I absolutely have no doubt Iger and co saw these when he was hired. I refuse to believe a billion dollar enterprise didn't vehemently check his Twitter.

In 2012? Why? That is the thing, Twitter being a big issue is a very new thing. Like last couple of years things. Trump's presidency has made it a very large focus.

2012, 2008 , 1998, it doesn't matter. People change. There is no set time table as to when change can only occur between year X and year Y. 2008 RDJ was not the same guy 2001 RDJ was. We all change and evolve. James Gunn stopped doing it. Everyone says making the GotG films changed him. He was good to his cast and his crew. No parents complained about him doing anything improper and I sure he met many while on set of the movie.

I do believe any person is capable of change, no matter how awful they may be. Some crimes are too awful to be given a second chance, granted. But I don't think a few insensitive jokes you made when you were not as mature is one of them. Not every 40 year old is mature, just like not every 15 year old is immature. James Gunn by no accounts harmed or mistreated anyone while making these movies. It all stems from a Twitter war, and Twitter at this point is evolving into the digital wild west. It has no rules except mob rule. I do think that we all need to take a step back and look at things like this in more depth.

Everyone changes yes. But what one changes from to are different things. Gunn was a 40 year old man who stopped doing this stuff once he started making legit money working for the Mouse. Is it that he changed, or that he learned to keep his mouth shut?

Also saying he didn't do anything while making these movies, well this is the guy who was enjoying fighting with people on twitter, asking others to dig up stuff on them. So, depending on your feelings on that. Also it reminds me of what the Astros are saying about signing a guy who has been accused of domestic violence and was suspended for 75 games by the league. They claim zero tolerance, but only if it happens when the player is with them. That doesn't feel like zero tolerance.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think that important addition to that context would be Gunn's career at the time of the tweets. His twitter persona was probably part of his profession as a provocative entertainer.

So he was fine being seen as a piece of trash then, just not now. Cool.

 

[Spider-Fan]

In 2012? Why? That is the thing, Twitter being a big issue is a very new thing. Like last couple of years things. Trump's presidency has made it a very large focus.

Social media has been monitored since Myspace. Any billion dollar enterprise knew that even then to look at all social media. Facebook, Twitter, etc. I cannot take any claim that says they didn't seriously, especially when much smaller companies have been doing this since Myspace also.

Everyone changes yes. But what one changes from to are different things. Gunn was a 40 year old man who stopped doing this stuff once he started making legit money working for the Mouse. Is it that he changed, or that he learned to keep his mouth shut?

Also saying he didn't do anything while making these movies, well this is the guy who was enjoying fighting with people on twitter, asking others to dig up stuff on them. So, depending on your feelings on that. Also it reminds me of what the Astros are saying about signing a guy who has been accused of domestic violence and was suspended for 75 games by the league. They claim zero tolerance, but only if it happens when the player is with them. That doesn't feel like zero tolerance.

Guy likes to debate politics, so what? You're active in our politics section, also. Is that wrong? Should you lose your job because you debate with people on SHH?

But on the subject of the Astros, we would agree hitting your wife is wrong and I do think that should have zero tolerance. But I wouldn't say making jokes about hitting your wife would warrant zero tolerance. Poor taste? Sure. Wrong? Sure. As bad as the actual act itself? Hell no. What Gunn did was closer to making a joke about it (which I think plenty of married men have made Honeymooners like jokes about it at least once in their life).

 

[Prettyricky]

I think gunns feet need to be held alittle closer to the fire on this. When your a celebrity of any kind you have to be mindful of what you say and do more then normal people. You cant put yourself in situations especially on social media to where it can bite you later down the line. Can he change sure, its not my
Place to condemn someone and take away there lively hood but his employer sure can and thats the consequences of what he tweeted. Does it suck? Of course as a marvel fan but people have to be smarter and have a better feel of the land with there actions.

 

[Prettyricky]

Social media has been monitored since Myspace. Any billion dollar enterprise knew that even then to look at all social media. Facebook, Twitter, etc. I cannot take any claim that says they didn't seriously, especially when much smaller companies have been doing this since Myspace also.

Shoot if the NFL has private investigators to look into matters you better believe the house of mouse that just shelled out $76 billion has there own people too.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Social media has been monitored since Myspace. Any billion dollar enterprise knew that even then to look at all social media. Facebook, Twitter, etc. I cannot take any claim that says they didn't seriously, especially when much smaller companies have been doing this since Myspace also.

Do you think those responsible for vetting brought these specifically to the attention of Horn and/or Iger? And if so, why do you think Horn reacted the way he did almost two weeks ago now?

Guy likes to debate politics, so what? You're active in our politics section, also. Is that wrong? Should you lose your job because you debate with people on SHH?

But on the subject of the Astros, we would agree hitting your wife is wrong and I do think that should have zero tolerance. But I wouldn't say making jokes about hitting your wife would warrant zero tolerance. Poor taste? Sure. Wrong? Sure. As bad as the actual act itself? Hell no. What Gunn did was closer to making a joke about it (which I think plenty of married men have made Honeymooners like jokes about it at least once in their life).

No, I am talking about discussing politics. Its how he did, even encouraging what happened to him, be done to others. If Gunn is a man who has evolved, changed, I feel like the irony of doing that to others would be blatant to him. And that is the thing. I almost completely agree with Gunn on politics, and those responsible for this are ****ing awful people. It is one of the reasons I am even conflicted on this.

 

[Lilbaz]

I do think time frame and how someone changes does matter. Otherwise I could just show any random mug shot and do the same thing. Heck, I could even probably do that for RDJ if I wanted to and get a similar reaction.

If he was a kid then maybe but he was about 40 when he made them. Sorry but you don't change that much between 40 and 50.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Shoot if the NFL has private investigators to look into matters you better believe the house of mouse that just shelled out $76 billion has there own people too.

I think if this was such a concern, no MLB players would have the situation going on with their twitter that is going on right now. Like the discovery of the use F (not the 4 letter one) and the N words liberally and so much talk about white power.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

If he was a kid then maybe but he was about 40 when he made them. Sorry but you don't change that much between 40 and 50.

You can. You totally can. And I am not even saying Gunn hasn't. He probably has changed plenty, but what that has resulted in maybe a question. He seems seem like a bit of an ******* to me. But it does feel rather convenient that he found "God" when he started getting paid.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Do you think those responsible for vetting brought these specifically to the attention of Horn and/or Iger? And if so, why do you think Horn reacted the way he did almost two weeks ago now?

Easy, PR. He's acting like they didn't know so nothing comes back on Disney. He's protecting himself and Disney and throwing Gunn under the bus in that statement. But it is complete bunk and I don't buy it for a nanosecond. Didn't buy it when the statement came out, either.

No, I am talking about discussing politics. Its how he did, even encouraging what happened to him, be done to others. If Gunn is a man who has evolved, changed, I feel like the irony of doing that to others would be blatant to him. And that is the thing. I almost completely agree with Gunn on politics, and those responsible for this are ****ing awful people. It is one of the reasons I am even conflicted on this.

I would say Gunn obviously will now have learned his lesson. He probably doesn't have that same opinion today, but it goes with my original point: life happens fast and changes how we felt yesterday. Just because Gunn posted something that ended up happening to him doesn't mean devalue what has happened to him IMO. I call that a learning experience for him, but it still doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Spider-Fan]

If he was a kid then maybe but he was about 40 when he made them. Sorry but you don't change that much between 40 and 50.

You are 100%, dead WRONG on this front. I don't mean this to sound offensive, but how old are you? I ask this because it may seem that way to someone younger with less experience. I would be shocked if you were 40 and said that I am in my 30s. But I will tell you, the SF you see here today ain't the same guy he was 5 years ago. Not even 3 years ago. Life never stops happening to you. You will change continuously all throughout your life.

 

[Prettyricky]

I think if this was such a concern, no MLB players would have the situation going on with their twitter that is going on right now. Like the discovery of the use of the F word (not the 4 letter one), the N word liberally and so much talk about white power.

Disney, nfl,mlb, baskin robbins it doesnt matter if your employer wants to know something about your background or social media they will find out. Like another poster said he was 40 at the time of this crap, he wasnt a 17 year old who didnt no better. At 40 years old your a grown man who should know this kind of stuff is being monitored. Its not like twitter became a thing 2 days ago.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Easy, PR. He's acting like they didn't know so nothing comes back on Disney. He's protecting himself and Disney and throwing Gunn under the bus in that statement. But it is complete bunk and I don't buy it for a nanosecond. Didn't buy it when the statement came out, either.

That is the thing. I totally believe the point of hiring people below you is to separate ones self from such things. Also, I brought it up in another post, but looking at the MLB situation, do you think the teams and the league just saw that stuff and where fine with their players keeping it up?

I would say Gunn obviously will now have learned his lesson. He probably doesn't have that same opinion today, but it goes with my original point: life happens fast and changes how we felt yesterday. Just because Gunn posted something that ended up happening to him doesn't mean devalue what has happened to him IMO. I call that a learning experience for him, but it still doesn't sit right with me.

I get you. But I am also one of those people who don't look at someone like Gunn, with his long history and think, "yeah he gets it". But more like you describe, life came at him fast. And for me that means time to learn to just keep your mouth up in general and start apologizing. I think it was his two apologizes that did that for me in that regard.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Disney, nfl,mlb, baskin robbins it doesnt matter if your employer wants to know something about your background or social media they will find out. Like another poster said he was 40 at the time of this crap, he wasnt a 17 year old who didnt no better. At 40 years old your a grown man who should know this kind of stuff is being monitored. Its not like twitter became a thing 2 days ago.

So they just let their players keep it up? They didn't tell them to take it down? They wanted the PR hit or thought it was better for them to have racism, homophobia and the KKK associated with them?

 

[Spider-Fan]

That is the thing. I totally believe the point of hiring people below you is to separate ones self from such things. Also, I brought it up in another post, but looking at the MLB situation, do you think the teams and the league just saw that stuff and where fine with their players keeping it up?

MLB is the one organization I can believe may not have checked it because they are very bad at self-promotion, LOL! But yeah, those teams dropped the ball. Considerably. Either by not checking it or telling them not to delete that stuff. That said, I don't think those players should be ruined forever for things they did as dumb teenagers. It's another learning experience (and I really hope they grew beyond what they said).

I get you. But I am also one of those people who don't look at someone like Gunn, with his long history and think, "yeah he gets it". But more like you describe, life came at him fast. And for me that means time to learn to just keep your mouth up in general and start apologizing. I think it was his two apologizes that did that for me in that regard.

Oh I agree, he needs to do shut up on Twitter. Like forever now. But I am sure the message sank in, LOL! At least now it should have.

 

[AlluAllu]

So he was fine being seen as a piece of trash then, just not now. Cool.

Actually, in a way, I think so. Back then Gunn propably would have enjoyed all this discussion. It wasn't as harmful to him if people misunderstood his tweets like he was actually sharing his true thoughts. And it definitely wasn't harmful to him to be known as a guy who tells offensive jokes. But the controversy happened when it was no longer convenient for him.