Guardians of the Galaxy James gunn fired!!!

[AlluAllu]

What if the jokes had been racist instead? What if a look into his past twitter feeds revealed a man who loved to make jokes at the expense of black people and was using all sorts of stereotypes? Would anyone still be making this argument?


Because I don't remember this kind of sympathy for Roseanne. Is everyone trying to tell me that they're deeply bothered and offended by racist jokes but NOT pedophilia jokes?

The difference between racist jokes and pedophilia jokes is that racist jokes are much more probably sincere. You could tell racist jokes to shock people like Gunn did, but because there actually are racists who think they can get away with it, those jokes would easily seem truly racistic.

Nobody thinks they can get away with pedophilia jokes, so when they tell one, it's much more believable that the person is just pretending for shock value.

 

[Mask&Cape]

The difference between racist jokes and pedophilia jokes is that racist jokes are much more probably sincere. You could tell racist jokes to shock people like Gunn did, but because there actually are racists who think they can get away with it, those jokes would easily seem truly racistic.

Nobody thinks they can get away with pedophilia jokes, so when they tell one, it's much more believable that the person is just pretending for shock value.

Making light of doing harm to children for "shock value" or to try get laughs is just plain disgusting.

There is no defending it.

And there is something disturbed in the mind of a person who does it.

And it wasn't comments - he apparently posted links to videos or something.

And can can we please stop calling them "jokes"?

 

[Dark Raven]

The difference between racist jokes and pedophilia jokes is that racist jokes are much more probably sincere. You could tell racist jokes to shock people like Gunn did, but because there actually are racists who think they can get away with it, those jokes would easily seem truly racistic.

Nobody thinks they can get away with pedophilia jokes, so when they tell one, it's much more believable that the person is just pretending for shock value.

That's what people used to say to defend racist "jokes" or comments at other people's expense, and racist bullying, particularly in schools or the work place. And others would sweep it under the carpet, saying it's just horse play and that the recipients of them were overly sensitive. That no-one would truly believe they are racist so it's just for shock value etc.

And these people got away with it time and again.

 

[AlluAllu]

Making light of doing harm to children for "shock value" or to try get laughs is just plain disgusting.

There is no defending it.

And there is something disturbed in the mind of a person who does it.

And it wasn't comments - he apparently posted links to videos or something.

And can can we please stop calling them "jokes"?

I personally agree that those kind of "shockers" are often a bad thing. I don't enjoy them, and they could cause serious harm to someone close to the matter. But I wouldn't condemn them entirely. I think it can be healthy for humans to be able to make light of anything in appropriate contexts. We should experience disgusting things from time to time. James Gunn's 2010 twitter following might have been suitable audience for those shockers, but certainly not James Gunn's current audience.

I think he shared a link that was written in a way so that it appeared to lead to child porn. But it actually led to YouTube video, where the chorus sang "I touch myself". That's how I heard it.

I also agree that "joke" is a misleading word, which is why I now used "shocker". They try to provoke different reactions.

 

[AlluAllu]

That's what people used to say to defend racist "jokes" or comments at other people's expense, and racist bullying, particularly in schools or the work place. And others would sweep it under the carpet, saying it's just horse play and that the recipients of them were overly sensitive. That no-one would truly believe they are racist so it's just for shock value etc.

And these people got away with it time and again.

Yeah. I could see how that could be used as an excuse in those environments. But I think there's still one key difference. Racist jokes are targeted and they paint someone as an inferior being. That makes them suitable for bullying. In pedophilia jokes it is the person telling the joke that is presented as a horrible monster. Which again makes it more believable that they are just pretending.

 

[Mask&Cape]

That's what people used to say to defend racist "jokes" or comments at other people's expense, and racist bullying, particularly in schools or the work place. And others would sweep it under the carpet, saying it's just horse play and that the recipients of them were overly sensitive. That no-one would truly believe they are racist so it's just for shock value etc.

And these people got away with it time and again.

Agreed.

I personally agree that those kind of "shockers" are often a bad thing. I don't enjoy them, and they could cause serious harm to someone close to the matter. But I wouldn't condemn them entirely. I think it can be healthy for humans to be able to make light of anything in appropriate contexts. We should experience disgusting things from time to time. James Gunn's 2010 twitter following might have been suitable audience for those shockers, but certainly not James Gunn's current audience.

I think he shared a link that was written in a way so that it appeared to lead to child porn. But it actually led to YouTube video, where the chorus sang "I touch myself". That's how I heard it.

I also agree that "joke" is a misleading word, which is why I now used "shocker". They try to provoke different reactions.

Sorry, but can you please explain the circumstances in which it is "healthy" to make fun of rape and paedophila?

Can you explain exactly what the point of "shock jokes" about rape and child molestation? Are these things not shocking enough?

By " we should all experience disgusting things" I assume you mean for society to be confronted about it bad side so that it can be discussed and dealt with - yes but this is not what Gunn did and others are doing.

You don't make a joke about the rape of a child to get society to sit up, take notice and do more. You just voice your disgust and tell people we have to do more.

"James Gunn's 2010 twitter following might have been suitable audience for those shockers, but certainly not James Gunn's current audience. " - This makes no sense. It is wrong now, it was wrong back then. And Gunn's followers who knew about this are as just as bad. It was not, and is not, "edgy" comedy. It is just disturbed.

I will acknowledge that I have not sufficient details regarding the links and I should not have commented on those based on what is being said. There is a limit to what details I know and I do not want dig any deeper the stuff I do know already casts a shadow over something that is supposed to be just fun escapism and entertainment.

And now there is a petition? Good Lord. Even Gunn himself has said that Disney took the right action and has behaved with dignity. I saw two of the names associated with it and the man really doesn't need any association with the likes of them.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Yeah. I could see how that could be used as an excuse in those environments. But I think there's still one key difference. Racist jokes are targeted and they paint someone as an inferior being. That makes them suitable for bullying. In pedophilia jokes it is the person telling the joke that is presented as a horrible monster. Which again makes it more believable that they are just pretending.

What????

If a person thinks raping a child is funny, they are a monster.

 

[AlluAllu]

Sorry, but can you please explain the circumstances in which it is "healthy" to make fun of rape and paedophila?

Can you explain exactly what the point of "shock jokes" about rape and child molestation? Are these things not shocking enough?

By " we should all experience disgusting things" I assume you mean for society to be confronted about it bad side so that it can be discussed and dealt with - yes but this is not what Gunn did and others are doing.

You don't make a joke about the rape of a child to get society to sit up, take notice and do more. You just voice your disgust and tell people we have to do more.

"James Gunn's 2010 twitter following might have been suitable audience for those shockers, but certainly not James Gunn's current audience. " - This makes no sense. It is wrong now, it was wrong back then. And Gunn's followers who knew about this are as just as bad. It was not, and is not, "edgy" comedy. It is just disturbed.

I will acknowledge that I have not sufficient details regarding the links and I should not have commented on those based on what is being said. There is a limit to what details I know and I do not want dig any deeper the stuff I do know already casts a shadow over something that is supposed to be just fun escapism and entertainment.

And now there is a petition? Good Lord. Even Gunn himself has said that Disney took the right action and has behaved with dignity. I saw two of the names associated with it and the man really doesn't need any association with the likes of them.

The way I see it, shock jokes can build our tolerance for these things, so that when something shocking truly happens, we can still function. But of course we should be careful not to build too strong stomachs. We should remain sensitive enough to understand why these things are bad. And yes, I do think that shock jokes can function as reminders of humanity's ugly side. And I think they can help some victims deal with their trauma. Also, I think there is some value in testing the limits on what can be talked about ironically.

Edit: Oh, I forgot to adress the audience part. What I meant by that was that James Gunn began his career with dark and twisted humor and horror. That's what he was known for, that's what people expected from him. So if someone followed him back then, it would be safe to assume that they would consent to seeing those shock jokes. Which would make telling them less bad.

What????

If a person thinks raping a child is funny, they are a monster.

Yeah. People telling these "jokes" don't think the act is funny. It's horrible, that's the whole point.

 

[Dark Raven]

The way I see it, shock jokes can build our tolerance for these things, so that when something shocking truly happens, we can still function. But of course we should be careful not to build too strong stomachs. We should remain sensitive enough to understand why these things are bad. And yes, I do think that shock jokes can function as reminders of humanity's ugly side. And I think they can help some victims deal with their trauma. Also, I think there is some value in testing the limits on what can be talked about ironically.



Yeah. People telling these "jokes" don't think the act is funny. It's horrible, that's the whole point.

Then maybe racist "jokes" can build our tolerance for when we truly suffer racist bullying and malicious comments so that we can still function and help victims deal with the trauma. It's all character building.

For those who have suffered these things, don't you think that even the "jokes" will be reminders of what they have suffered, and that they will be more sensitive to that sort of thing now?

Would you advocate a few Holocaust jokes as therapy for Holocaust survivors? Maybe the Nazis should've told a few jokes in preparation for the genocide they were about to commit?

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Would you advocate a few Holocaust jokes as therapy for Holocaust survivors?

I hope you know that this is actually a thing.

 

[Web-Head]

I'm assuming it'll be a while before anyone asks Feige about this situation

 

[AlluAllu]

For those who have suffered these things, don't you think that even the "jokes" will be reminders of what they have suffered, and that they will be more sensitive to that sort of thing now?

Most of them likely are more sensitive. Which is why those "jokes" should only be told with consent of those receiving them.

 

[Mask&Cape]

The way I see it, shock jokes can build our tolerance for these things, so that when something shocking truly happens, we can still function. But of course we should be careful not to build too strong stomachs. We should remain sensitive enough to understand why these things are bad. And yes, I do think that shock jokes can function as reminders of humanity's ugly side. And I think they can help some victims deal with their trauma. Also, I think there is some value in testing the limits on what can be talked about ironically.

Again - what????

Why do we need to build tolerance to sex crimes? Why do we need "shocking jokes" to remember rape is a bad thing?

"Testing the limits"?

Rape is wrong. Peadophila is disgusting. There is no humour there. NONE.

Please do not talk about what is best for the victims of these disgusting crimes. Neither you nor I are have the experience or expertise to discuss that topic.

Yeah. People telling these "jokes" don't think the act is funny. It's horrible, that's the whole point.

Then they should say it is horrible. Not try to get a few laughs out of it.

That whole "shock value" thing is an ocean of BS. People who come up with kind of comments are disturbed. It is that simple.

Sarah Silverman makes these comments. That is horrible.
Patton Oswalt makes jokes about murdering people. That is twisted.
Seth McFarlane did not create a paedophile character to wake up the world to these terrible crimes . He did because he thinks it is funny.

And if someone finds these things funny, don't pretend it is satire or social commentary. It is just disturbed.

 

[Mask&Cape]

I'm assuming it'll be a while before anyone asks Feige about this situation

No, some moron or collection of morons will will think it is a clever topic to bring up right away and then be surprised that he won't comment and try desperately to make a comment out of his non-answer.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Most of them likely are more sensitive. Which is why those "jokes" should only be told with consent of those receiving them.

Yes, I can see it now - at the start of every gig stand ups will now ask permission to be racist and make jokes about raping children.



Once again - what???

You are actually depressing more than James Gunn has.

 

[Web-Head]

No, some moron or collection of morons will will think it is a clever topic to bring up right away and then be surprised that he won't comment and try desperately to make a comment out of his non-answer.

Unless he'll be doing some sort of press for Ant-Man and the Wasp, we might not hear anything till much later when they hire someone new

 

[AlluAllu]

Again - what????

Why do we need to build tolerance to sex crimes? Why do we need "shocking jokes" to remember rape is a bad thing?

"Testing the limits"?

Rape is wrong. Peadophila is disgusting. There is no humour there. NONE.

Please do not talk about what is best for the victims of these disgusting crimes. Neither you nor I are have the experience or expertise to discuss that topic.



Then they should say it is horrible. Not try to get a few laughs out of it.

That whole "shock value" thing is an ocean of BS. People who come up with kind of comments are disturbed. It is that simple.

Sarah Silverman makes these comments. That is horrible.
Patton Oswalt makes jokes about murdering people. That is twisted.
Seth McFarlane did not create a paedophile character to wake up the world to these terrible crimes . He did because he thinks it is funny.

And if someone finds these things funny, don't pretend it is satire or social commentary. It is just disturbed.

I'm starting to think that we will not reach significant common ground by discussing this. But I'll continue just a while longer.

Like I said, we should have enough tolerance to function properly. If someone close to me became a victim of this, with tolerance I could be there for them instead of just vomiting. And luckily, I don't think many people experience rape at all in their own personal worlds, and they might even avoid the topic. But people listen to jokes, and those jokes can remind them that it exists.

Yeah, testing the limits. We don't want certain topics to become or stay forbidden "just because". By testing the limits we ensure that we can talk about the things that we should be able to.

This I think is where the core of our disagreement is. Those things are horrible, but I don't think that prevents them from being used with jokes or shock jokes.

I said some and think. I didn't try to present it as a fact that applies to all cases.


Hmm... those examples that you gave me made my realise that dark humor can be nuanced. Some of it may intend to provoke shock, some laughs, some varying degrees of both. I think that James Gunn's material was focused on shocking side, and that's what I have primarily defended. But Family Guy character might actually just be intended to cause laughs. That I would be more opposed to.

 

[AlluAllu]

Yes, I can see it now - at the start of every gig stand ups will now ask permission to be racist and make jokes about raping children.



Once again - what???

You are actually depressing more than James Gunn has.

Consent could also be just showing up, if the comedian is known for that kind of humor.

And if the comedian tells rasistic jokes while painting himself as the bad guy because of it, then he isn't being a rasist. Same way how James Gunn painted himself as the bad guy within his tweets.

Sorry to hear that.

 

[Dark Raven]

Consent could also be just showing up, if the comedian is known for that kind of humor.

And if the comedian tells rasistic jokes while painting himself as the bad guy because of it, then he isn't being a rasistic. Same way how James Gunn painted himself as the bad guy within his tweets.

Sorry to hear that.

So when these people in schools or workplaces are blatantly racist and don't care if anyone else know it and will willingly "paint themselves as the bad guy", then they aren't actually being racist?

Yeah, that's one way to excuse it.

 

[AlluAllu]

So when these people in schools or workplaces are blatantly racist and don't care if anyone else know it and will willingly "paint themselves as the bad guy", then they aren't actually being racist?

Yeah, that's one way to excuse it.

Ok, you got me there. I should have worded it differently. But I trust you caught my intention? On surface level people can say one thing, but in whole context mean the opposite.

 

[JannTosh]

The outrage culture that got Gunn fired was heavily promoted by Gunn himself many times


That’s why many don’t feel too sorry for him

 

[Big Bang]

The outrage culture that got Gunn fired was heavily promoted by Gunn himself many times

Exactly this ^. I don't know how many more times this needs to be reiterated before people get this.

 

[Abudefduf]

Patton Oswalt makes jokes about murdering people. That is twisted.

Uh... yeah, what kind of sick person would do that? I... I certainly don't, haha.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Unless he'll be doing some sort of press for Ant-Man and the Wasp, we might not hear anything till much later when they hire someone new

I was thinking the media would be hunting San Dego for Feige - I actually forgot about the Ant-Man and the Wasp press junket.

So I amend my original response to say Feige is going to be hounded by hacks looking for some kind of soundbyte about Gunn and no matter what he says they will keep asking.

 

[Mask&Cape]

I'm starting to think that we will not reach significant common ground by discussing this. But I'll continue just a while longer.

Like I said, we should have enough tolerance to function properly. If someone close to me became a victim of this, with tolerance I could be there for them instead of just vomiting. And luckily, I don't think many people experience rape at all in their own personal worlds, and they might even avoid the topic. But people listen to jokes, and those jokes can remind them that it exists.

Sorry, but what kind of tolerance are you talking about?

I don't see how you get the strength to support the victim of a rape by being accepting and appreciating that there is "humour" in rape and paedophilia?

I don't what justification you have for thinking not many people get raped? How many is many?

People listen to jokes? People also listen to the news, to radio and read. There are plenty of forums to talk about sex crimes.

Please explain how rape can be funny? Because something is not a joke unless it is intended to be funny, there when someone tells "rape joke" then they think it is funny.

Yeah, testing the limits. We don't want certain topics to become or stay forbidden "just because". By testing the limits we ensure that we can talk about the things that we should be able to.

Of course the topics should be discussed. Sex crimes should not be hidden away.

But HOW is comedy the forum to to discuss the rape of a child? It is NOT funny.

This I think is where the core of our disagreement is. Those things are horrible, but I don't think that prevents them from being used with jokes or shock jokes.

How are you only realising not that this is the centre of the disagreement?

I have said it over and over. Rape and paedophila are NOT funny.

And YES it does prevent it from used as jokes because rape is NOT funny.

I said some and think. I didn't try to present it as a fact that applies to all cases.

I don't what exactly you ae referring to here.

Hmm... those examples that you gave me made my realise that dark humor can be nuanced. Some of it may intend to provoke shock, some laughs, some varying degrees of both. I think that James Gunn's material was focused on shocking side, and that's what I have primarily defended. But Family Guy character might actually just be intended to cause laughs. That I would be more opposed to.

There is nothing "nuanced" about about any of this. It is just disgusting, disturbed minds.