Jean & Storm: Were The Roles Reversed?

[Cyclops]

She was a sexy vixen if you're into women who look 12...

 

[javon]

^LMFAO! I started not to put her in, but hey, if she can have a better action-wise role than Rogue in just one (oh wait, shehad some action in the second movie) movie, then she's a vixen .

 

[phoenix_force]

Jean needed more development in x3
but she was still excellent with what she was given
but she should have
1-been the one to taken down the bridge with tidal waves and part the water as was in the designs
2-should have had fiery phoenix effects
3-should have had more scenes of personal struggle between personalities
storm....should not have been in x3 at all...........should have taken scott's place and died at alkali lake instead

 

[jimjam-06]

Jean needed more development in x3
but she was still excellent with what she was given
but she should have
1-been the one to taken down the bridge with tidal waves and part the water as was in the designs
2-should have had fiery phoenix effects
3-should have had more scenes of personal struggle between personalities
storm....should not have been in x3 at all...........should have taken scott's place and died at alkali lake instead

You're exactly right, Jean needed these three things to make her both iconic and sympathetic. Sure, Jean was great with what she was given but it wasn't enough. Jean needed a voice (something which was given to Storm when Jean needed it more), Jean needed to talk, needed conflict.

The biggest problem with her character is that there was no conflict, no win, no resolution. In the movie Jean didn't sacrifice herself, she was killed. Sure she gave Logan the leway to kill her but it just didn't have the same effect as her killing herself. Her voice was lost in the commotion of the effects the producers wanted to get across.

Storm lost the excellence she had from the first movie, I agree she didn't have enough to do, but her accent and character was much more understandable and I could see Storm from the comics. I didn't like Storm in the third movie because of her ultimate character change and harshness. I liked that she was given leader status, but it wasn't enough.

Both Jean and Storm just didn't get enough, or in Storm's case, she got too much of something bad (IMHO)

To be honest (although I love Halle Berry, I think she was miscast here) I still think we would have seen the real Storm we wanted with Angela Bassett, if she would have played her.

 

[TKing]

You're exactly right, Jean needed these three things to make her both iconic and sympathetic. Sure, Jean was great with what she was given but it wasn't enough. Jean needed a voice (something which was given to Storm when Jean needed it more), Jean needed to talk, needed conflict.

The biggest problem with her character is that there was no conflict, no win, no resolution. In the movie Jean didn't sacrifice herself, she was killed. Sure she gave Logan the leway to kill her but it just didn't have the same effect as her killing herself. Her voice was lost in the commotion of the effects the producers wanted to get across.

Storm lost the excellence she had from the first movie, I agree she didn't have enough to do, but her accent and character was much more understandable and I could see Storm from the comics. I didn't like Storm in the third movie because of her ultimate character change and harshness. I liked that she was given leader status, but it wasn't enough.

Both Jean and Storm just didn't get enough, or in Storm's case, she got too much of something bad (IMHO)

To be honest (although I love Halle Berry, I think she was miscast here) I still think we would have seen the real Storm we wanted with Angela Bassett, if she would have played her.

I agree that Jean didn't really seem to put up a fight against the Phoenix. We didn't see the internal struggle, or the dual personalities fighting to surface like Xavier mentioned.

Although I disagree. I preferred Storm in X3 than in the previous movies. She had a meaningful role, to hold the Institute together and as team leader. She actually had her OWN opinions, eg. she was against the cure. The only thing that I dislike is that they didn't show WHY she had those reasons. If we had learnt that her powers were worshipped in Africa, then it might have made sense why she was against people discarding theirs.

And about the casting, maybe so. But there's not much we can do now about it. Besides, I thought Halle did quite a job with the character, it was just the lack of personality in the first two movies and no character background.

 

[Goddessreicho]

storm....should not have been in x3 at all...........should have taken scott's place and died at alkali lake instead

Oh really! That would mean that Storm shouldn't have been there in the first place. Was that another impossible mistake of the first director? Nah, couldn't have been.

Besides why on earth would they kill their only minority frame filler? Oo, that's not right. I mean, angy empty power tool/remote control for worthless weather controlling. That's more like it.

After all, what famous face could have marketed all three movies? Oh I forgot all about Picard. I find that so odd that people complain about Halle being all over the place in X3, when it happened in the first to promotional campains as well.

 

[The Weather God]

Storm lost the excellence she had from the first movie, I agree she didn't have enough to do, but her accent and character was much more understandable and I could see Storm from the comics. I didn't like Storm in the third movie because of her ultimate character change and harshness. I liked that she was given leader status, but it wasn't enough.

What character? She barly said a dam thing and got her ass kicked most of the film. Storm Jealousy

3-should have had more scenes of personal struggle between personalities
storm....should not have been in x3 at all...........should have taken scott's place and died at alkali lake instead

I highly disagree completly about the storm part, yes cyclops should have got a better role and it could have been done if the movie was extended, and if they diden't kill him off in the first place, not killing storm off just to get cyclop's back in. Your sounding a little selfish and jealous

 

[CapBeerCino]

​

Questions For Discussion:

1.) Do you agree with the above assessment?

2.) Do you believe the two characters could have BOTH been given justice in X3?
​

1) most defently regarding Jean, not so much regarding the 'role reversed' because I think x-3 has the worst take of Storm yet. I couldn't even see the character while watching the movie, only the script comimg out of Halle's mouth.

2) By talented people - easily. I just saw the deleted scene of Jean and Storm interacting while flying to Boston, the two had real chemistry, they could have taken it into such great directions... what a shame

p.s

LS - unless I missed something, I'm still waiting to read your x-3 review

 

[Goddessreicho]

1) most defently regarding Jean, not so much regarding the 'role reversed' because I think x-3 has the worst take of Storm yet. I couldn't even see the character while watching the movie, only the script comimg out of Halle's mouth.

2) By talented people - easily. I just saw the deleted scene of Jean and Storm interacting while flying to Boston, the two had real chemistry, they could have taken it into such great directions... what a shame

p.s

LS - unless I missed something, I'm still waiting to read your x-3 review

Huh? What interaction? They just flew piloted together. I think your grasping for some straws because that was their only scene together.

 

[jimjam-06]

What character? She barly said a dam thing and got her ass kicked most of the film. Storm Jealousy

What she didn't say in X1 and x2 said alot more to me about how I saw her from the comics than what she did say in x3...

And yes, every opinion is jealousy...

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Huh? What interaction? They just flew piloted together. I think your grasping for some straws because that was their only scene together.

in the deleted scene they have some kind of interaction...

 

[RagingTempest]

I think what we need to do is the writes to give Storm a better storyline, give us more into her background. Like Gambit, would be a great way to do that. X1 Storm was too quite and insecure, X2 Storm was better, but still not enough insight and importance to her, and X3 Storm was finally aggressivein battle, but still didn't have any real point until the end of the movie. That's why for X4, I want Storm is be complete like she should be, in presence and in fighting. As for Jean, I think for X1 and X2, Jean was perfect, but X3 just wasn't Jean, or even Phoenix for that matter! Phoenix had no real point for her actions, why was she angry, why follow Magneto, what was her motive!! She had her nice outburst, but than she was quiet for the next half of the movie, than at the end she just killed everybody and everything in her way. If Jean ever returns, she needs a lot more to say, and if Phoenix returns, make have power in her words, not just in her powers.

 

[Goddessreicho]

Lol I think thats the point of the thread. Storm was always angry for no reason (cause she didn't have a backround story) and now Jean is genocidal for no reason...

 

[jimjam-06]

I think what we need to do is the writes to give Storm a better storyline, give us more into her background. Like Gambit, would be a great way to do that. X1 Storm was too quite and insecure, X2 Storm was better, but still not enough insight and importance to her, and X3 Storm was finally aggressivein battle, but still didn't have any real point until the end of the movie. That's why for X4, I want Storm is be complete like she should be, in presence and in fighting. As for Jean, I think for X1 and X2, Jean was perfect, but X3 just wasn't Jean, or even Phoenix for that matter! Phoenix had no real point for her actions, why was she angry, why follow Magneto, what was her motive!! She had her nice outburst, but than she was quiet for the next half of the movie, than at the end she just killed everybody and everything in her way. If Jean ever returns, she needs a lot more to say, and if Phoenix returns, make have power in her words, not just in her powers.

I completely agree with you, Storm's never been perfect but at least Jean was good for 1 and 2. X4 (if) really should go into her background and show her as a motherly warrior. (but not harsh and dare I say, heartless, like in x3) And Jean should come back and her struggle and love for her team members should be recognised as well as her relationship with Storm.

 

[The Weather God]

What she didn't say in X1 and x2 said alot more to me about how I saw her from the comics than what she did say in x3...

And yes, every opinion is jealousy...

No it look's to me like you don't want storm to have a character nor a voice, because that's exactly what she diden't have in the first film. Was jean grey like her comic book counter part character? I think not, so can't storm ever get a chance to shine without someone whining about screen time and that she should have died with cyclops taking her role? I am proud storm finily got something to say and got to be apart of the plot instead of being some queit scared little mouse in the background, no matter if she's not like her comic book version at least she got to be apart of the team and have a voice.

 

[PeRfEcT_StOrM]

A-Men!!! god the world doesn't revolve around the jean fans or the cyclops fans...be happy with wat ya got!! i love Jean in X3??!!

she needed the firey effect though

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Excuse me? You call the woman with the viney face and black eyes the all powerful Phoenix? Whats a Phoenix without her fiery effect, without Jean struggling with her darker impulses, without showing that theres still good in Jean? Whats a Phoenix who utterly destroys Jean's true love, Scott Summers? Those things certainly didn't make the majority of us Jean and Cyclops fans very happy. That clearly wasn't the Phoenix Saga I was used to, putting aside the space aliens and s***. I'm honest here and I know what I'm talking about. What we got was too little. The Phoenix Saga needed its own movie (s) and to be done justice!

In the Dark/Phoenix Saga, Jean never killed Scott.

 

[CapBeerCino]

Huh? What interaction? They just flew piloted together. I think your grasping for some straws because that was their only scene together.

The deleted scene were she's teasing Jean about Logan. It isn't long but it's great seeing that they are freinds outside of the x-men. I also think that's the only scene in which Storm is smiling for once. And that wasn't their only scene together. (the curch in Boston where they worked as a team which was great)

 

[BMM]

1.) Do you agree with the above assessment?​

​

No, I don't think the roles were reversed. While Jean/Phoenix/Dark Phoenix received poor treatment in The Last Stand, so did Storm. Nothing new was brought to the table in so far as Storm's characterization is concerned. In fact, I think she took a step-back.

2.) Do you believe the two characters could have BOTH been given justice in X3?

Yes, absolutely both characters could have been done justice in X-Men 3. The inclusion of the Dark Phoenix Saga alone provides X-Men 3 with massive potential for further characterization of the X-Men.

- X-Men establishes the opposing philosophies of Magneto and Xavier, as well as presents the classic external mutant threat in the form of the Brotherhood.

- X2 presents the external human threat in the form of William Stryker, etc.

- X-Men 3, via the Dark Phoenix Saga, finally allows for the potential to dive deeply into character relationships and struggles via the internal threat of one of their own, Jean Grey.

There is no reason why Jean couldn't be done justice seeing as how her character arc was set up with little, or no, problems.

In so far as Storm is concerned, I would have liked to have seen them capitalize on the direction they seemed to be taking the character in the latter half of X2. Finally, someone comes in and asks, "Why are you of all people, so angry?" To me, Nightcrawler felt like the kick in the butt Storm needed, saying, "Perhaps you would be better suited if you started thinking this way." I would have liked to have seen this used as a spring board for the character. In addition, the sheer confusion and internal strife concerning Jean Grey and other potential external threats allows for wonderful character moments regarding Storm.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

LS - unless I missed something, I'm still waiting to read your x-3 review

Ya know, several people have asked me for my review, but I'm afraid that if I do one now it might be mocked because it's so late!

 

[gambitfire]

Ok well i havn't been in this thread but IMO there roles where somewhat reversed, but once more IMO Halle had the chance to deliver Storm and she failed, not like the writing helped really.

But anyways, both characters suffered alot due to the way the movie was written, directed and edited, In the end i think both Jean and Storm are victims of X3.

edit- and i forgot filmed

all IMO of course

 

[jimjam-06]

No it look's to me like you don't want storm to have a character nor a voice, because that's exactly what she diden't have in the first film. Was jean grey like her comic book counter part character? I think not, so can't storm ever get a chance to shine without someone whining about screen time and that she should have died with cyclops taking her role? I am proud storm finily got something to say and got to be apart of the plot instead of being some queit scared little mouse in the background, no matter if she's not like her comic book version at least she got to be apart of the team and have a voice.

Of course I want Storm to have a character and a voice I love storm! And I have stated before, I liked that she got more screen time and a voice in x3, I just wished it was less harsh and more like her comic book character. I thought that she did have a voice in the first two, it just isn't recognised by enough people. Her insecurities and subtleties said alot about her character. I pretty much like all 3 versions but all are flawed.

And Jean was more like her comic book character than hardly any of the others, and I wasn't the one who said Storm should have died

 

[CapBeerCino]

Ya know, several people have asked me for my review, but I'm afraid that if I do one now it might be mocked because it's so late!

Then just pm it to selected users

 

[*Dark_Phoenix*]

Excuse me? You call the woman with the viney face and black eyes the all powerful Phoenix? Whats a Phoenix without her fiery effect, without Jean struggling with her darker impulses, without showing that theres still good in Jean? Whats a Phoenix who utterly destroys Jean's true love, Scott Summers? Those things certainly didn't make the majority of us Jean and Cyclops fans very happy. That clearly wasn't the Phoenix Saga I was used to, putting aside the space aliens and s***. I'm honest here and I know what I'm talking about. What we got was too little. The Phoenix Saga needed its own movie (s) and to be done justice!

In the Dark/Phoenix Saga, Jean never killed Scott.

that is a fan talking! i second that..

i mean im a jean/wolverine shipper but still i know she would never kill scott!

 

[FIREPHOENIX]

If FOX wanted Scott in the movie (which they did not originally) they would have taken the time to work around his time when they needed James I am sure James would have loved to do both. FOX did not want Scott or Jean in the movie at all originally. James agreeing to do Superman Returns means NOTHING because he could have done both if FOX wanted Cyclops to have a big role. Like I said they originally DID NOT want Cyclops or Jean in the movie AT ALL.

BRAVO post I agree FOX/RATNER could have used James Marsden More because production on Superman Returns was shut down for the whole month of October 2005 adm resumed in November.

I don't want to here this crap they only had a week with James GMAB they had a month to use him and I"M pretty damn sure a month would have given some fan some damn good awesome scene's instead of the crap we were given and told basically to deal with it.


Robert