JLA vs avengers

[bkhedr]

If thor transports supes to a dimension where his powers don't work, ie a place without the sun etc, not exactly difficult for Thor, then Supes starts getting Hammered, litterally!

Except that Thor is too noble/stubborn to fight supes on those terms

And I'd rather not play the teleportation card at all. A win by removal is no win at all, besides its not like Thor cant beat him straight up.

 

[The_Mystery]

I can almost see keep them busy. But some of their players would just eat the Avengers straight through, giving the JLA a similar tactic. You're right, the JLA could use that tactic as well, but after reading countless JLA issues, whenever they take on another super-team, there doesn't seem to be any type of plan until they are in the middle of a battle. Cap comes up with plans before and, if he has to, alters his plans to fit his opponent.

They COULD rely totally on Superman, using their other members to "hold off" the Avengers until they can team up on the others.I agree, they could do that as well. Won't argue with you there.

Superman beats Iron Man, then the chain starts going down.I don't know if Iron Man would take on Supes, but yup, Supes, beats Iron Man. But what I'm trying to say is that very few of these match-ups would be easy wins. None actually. Both teams have great fighters and warriors in their ranks. One team just happens to have the better leader. Like I said, it's like to great football teams going head to head. If they have equally good defense, special teams and offensive lines, it would come down to who has the better QB. In this case, the JLA and Avengers are about equal power-wise, but the Avengers have the advantage with Cap.

Unfortunately, for these tactics to work, we'd have to decide who fights who, and since we don't know, or at least, have not even come to a consensus, the "keep them at bay" theory won't hold down.

If the Sentry IS as powerful as they originally wanted him to be. Yes, of course the Sentry could do it. If he was half that powerful, he probably could. But currently, the Sentry is either: One, holding back in fear of the Void, which creates a maybe just above Thor level character, or Two, isn't capable of even breaching that level anymore (though it may be possible that his powers increase dramatically when the Void breaks away, releasing a possible restriction.) But since the Sentry is a definite unknown factor, we can't just say, "Sentry decides it."I wouldn't say the Sentry decides it, but he could easily shift the balance of the fight. If he takes out a heavy-hitter like Supes, GL or Flash (which he could beat any of those, in my opinion) then the advantage slips even further for the Avengers. Same can be said if Supes, takes out Thor. It's a razor's edge with these teams.

I would say 6 out of 10 times, the Avengers win.

 

[Varient]

People would also follow Superman based on the fact he's Superman. If anything, he's just as big an inspiration as is Captain America.

Good point.

In the DC Universe The MAJORITY of the planet will follow Superman because they believe in him "just because".

Captain America currently doesn't have that kind of pull outside America.

 

[bkhedr]

I expected a fight like that to last about a day before Superman wins it,.... if for any other reason,.. both are in their own ways are reluctant to cut loose w/o provocation.

I still Give Supes the win based purely on feats.

With respect to Thor Fans,... I have more respect for those super-powered characters that are less dependent on gear.

The magic for me is what they do from themselves,... not what their gear does for them.

Thor seems to read in Supermans power range simply because of that mallet of his.
(Yes I could be in error,.. I'm not so Anal as to make it a statement of fact w/o reading at least 30 years of Thor first.)

And because of this, I don't give him the win because it is SOP in DC anyway that Kal will recognize the threat level of the weapon and try to remove it from the fight.

If it gives a clearer viewpoint - I believe that the Martian can whoop both at once if he simply cut loose like he did recently.

V.

Good post V

but I just want to point out that Thor had to prove himself to be the greatest and noblest warrior in Asgard before he was given Mjolnir. Given that the Asgardians are warrior gods, being the greatest of them without Mjolnir is not unimpressive

 

[The_Mystery]

People would also follow Superman based on the fact he's Superman. If anything, he's just as big an inspiration as is Captain America.

Didn't say he wasn't, just pointing out that, they are on the same level "inspiration-wise" with both their teams.

 

[The_Mystery]

I'm gonna go out on the limb here and say that whichever team loses the first member in battle (be it due to unconciousness(sp), incapacitation or death) would probably get the win.

 

[bkhedr]

Actually, most viking types weren't really all THAT brilliant of fighters. And given the odd nature of most of Thor's opponents, it wasn't really left up to any skill. In mythology, his only real killing duty was to kill giants, which was usually accomplished by him throwing his hammer at them.

Thor basically has always relied on his physical power over actual skill, since most of the time, actual skill never came into play. And most vikings just really sat there and bashed on each other until one fell. I mean, they did use strategy and styles, but nothing really all that advanced.

So to say that Thor SHOULD be a better fighter than Superman would be something I would say no to.

Asgardians arent Vikings though, and they have often been written as highly skilled warriors.

Sure Thor comes across as a classic bruiser in the Avengers but in some his better written solo stuff his skills are featured prominently.

How about during the God Wheel arc where a mortal, all but powerless, Thor (who was all but dead at this point) kept his heart beating through sheer force of will and (using great skill) fought off the techno zombies that had been sent to finish him off?

Or later in the same arc where a depowered mortal Thor kept up with Captain America on a mission.

That's just one example

I guess its all open to interpretation but I choose to think of Thor has a highly skilled warrior. Heck Marvel.com says he's an expert swordsman!

Asgardians are almost always at war or in peril. Thor is their warrior prince. He was groomed to be their greatest warrior. I'm no expert on Kal's combat training/experience, but I seriously doubt that he can hold a candle to Thor

 

[Varient]

Good post V

but I just want to point out that Thor had to prove himself to be the greatest and noblest warrior in Asgard before he was given Mjolnir. Given that the Asgardians are warrior gods, being the greatest of them without Mjolnir is not unimpressive

Very true,... Not taking ANYTHING away from what Thor has done.

 

[Cyrusbales]

Asgardians arent Vikings though, and they have often been written as highly skilled warriors.

Sure Thor comes across as a classic bruiser in the Avengers but in some his better written solo stuff his skills are featured prominently.

How about during the God Wheel arc where a mortal, all but powerless, Thor (who was all but dead at this point) kept his heart beating through sheer force of will and (using great skill) fought off the techno zombies that had been sent to finish him off?

Or later in the same arc where a depowered mortal Thor kept up with Captain America on a mission.

That's just one example

I guess its all open to interpretation but I choose to think of Thor has a highly skilled warrior. Heck Marvel.com says he's an expert swordsman!

Asgardians are almost always at war or in peril. Thor is their warrior prince. He was groomed to be their greatest warrior. I'm no expert on Kal's combat training/experience, but I seriously doubt that he can hold a candle to Thor

nice post, very nice!

 

[Marvin]

You don't even like the Avengers do you?t:

Yes, I am. There is nothing that specifically says the he's vulnerable to science. Sure a big honkin' science fiction guy could hurt him. I'm not denying that, but it's not labelled as a specific vulnerability, you're arguing semantics with me.

actually I'm arguing syntax...

Superman is vulerable to magic(believe it or not) in the same (english) way Thor is vulnerable to science.

you've seen a magic sword hurt superman
you've seen a scientific device (bomb, laser canon) hurt superman

everyone is vulnerable to science in the same way everyone is vulnerable to magics...

but does that mean that if thor(who can be effect by scientific devices) were to be hit by a huge indestructable car engine or that synthetic hammer tony/reed built he'd go down in a way that it should be noted as a weakness?

cause that's what's going on with this hammer talk.

hell superman is a creature of science(in that science can explain him), does that mean that anyone(or rather everyone) "Vulnerable to science" is "weak" against his attacks?

thinks outside the box

I didn't say they were as good as Cap. Yes, the leadership would falter a little, but Jan is a good leader. Tony is a great leader. The Avengers would still do alright. Cap's leadership would just push them over the edge

so your saying without the edge that Cap gives them they're just as capable a threat to the JLA?

your saying this?

Actually, I've seen instances when Bats was taken out of the fight and the members of the JLA would stand around and wish for Bats to be there to help them out of a jam. It happens throughout Morrison's JLA run.

oh wow, batman is actually getting some credit in this thread?...he's not just a liability? he actually plays a key leadership role?

funny how it only comes into play when it's regarded as something the League would miss if he were gone, and not as a key factor in the leagues use of him to defeat the enemy

I would have love to see the avengers deal with those threats without Batmans as well
(white martians for one)

Whatever Superman's words were DC COMICS just said this week in "52" that he's vulnerable to fire. Go read the issue. Plain and simple to me.

supermans words = he's the most powerfull on earth, nothing about fire...

Didn't say he wasn't, but if he gets near any flame, it's the end of the road for J'onn.

not that simple

Didn't say he wouldn't, just saying that Cap is smart enough to not take him on, but call on some help.

but j'onn is dumb enough to engage someone with flame powers
(j'onn, who can read his opponet and know what they can do...among other mind games)

Yes, he would be smart enough not to. Look at any battle with the Squadron Supreme. Cap doesn't jump into a fight with Hyperion, he sends his big gun, Thor, after him.

then why wouldn't j'onn do the same in light of the pending threat?
he could even do it telepathically unlike cap would would have to get word to thor....

Not saying he would, but if anyone on the Avengers saw J'onn flinch at fire, it only takes one call for Firebird or Vision to come over and "light" J'onn up.

um...

and if anyone on the league saw cap flinch at the sight of a falling debris coming at him
"it only takes one call of" any number of mountain chrusing members "to come over and "light" Cap up."

ur point?

cause mine is, Sure J'onn is vulnerable to flame, sure superman is vulerable to kryptonite...

ask yourself what cap is vulerable to and how the league can find out and exploit it.

When Flash is in battle with a group of people, he never seems to do it. Why do you have a problem with me saying that? He didn't steal Pietro's speed in JLA/Avengers and he didn't do it in Marvel vs. DC.

but he has done it in various other stories...outside of badly written company cross overs...

i didn't see that many attacks from thor in those books...so does that mean he don't got them..and that they don't come into play.

no infinate mass punch either, guess that's out
wanda didn't use that many spells, i've seen Zantanna use hundreds..guess that means Zantanna outclasses her one hundred to one...

what i'm getting at is that just cause u didn't see it in those books doesn't mean it's not present in others(more relevent ones at that), and most of all it doesn't mean that the character in question can't do it

(Green lantern being a serious issue here if that theory held true)

Like I said before, Pietro would get beat down by Flash, but all it takes is a helping hand. Especially if that hand belongs to someone like Namor or Sentry.

flash could take him out in less than a second.

I'm not using the godblast because it's a cheat. Yes, Thor can do it, but he doesn't use it all the time. He uses his MAGIC HAMMER all the time though.

to do what?

bonk people on their heads with?

He has the "Power of a Billion Exploding Suns" dude. He's just as fast as Flash and a million times stronger. Dude, he just flew up to the sun and didn't flinch (Check the last issue of the recent Sentry Mini-series, for all you sticklers )

kinda sounds like superman(mostly) reading what u said that is.
where i does it say that flash can't rock him in the same way he rocks superman?
as fast as the sentry may be(i avoid reading his book not a fan) flash doesn't have a limit on his speed.

And the Avengers have enough power to destroy the planet and warp reality. What's your point.

I said half the jla roster could do such things individually

You don't even like the Avengers do you?t:

not enough to buy the book no
(may have something to do with bendis)



word of advice

U sure say "didn't say that" much..
put enough of them togeher and you're not saying that much

 

[Marvin]

Keyword: smiliar. If you want to go that route then anyone that's beat Batman could be viewed as able to take down Cap just because they're similar. Not the case.

Well u just ended the whole magic vs superman debate with that post if you wanna get technically

not the case

 

[Marvin]

Actually, he couldn't drain Zoom.

no but he delt with it

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Asgardians arent Vikings though, and they have often been written as highly skilled warriors.

Sure Thor comes across as a classic bruiser in the Avengers but in some his better written solo stuff his skills are featured prominently.

How about during the God Wheel arc where a mortal, all but powerless, Thor (who was all but dead at this point) kept his heart beating through sheer force of will and (using great skill) fought off the techno zombies that had been sent to finish him off?

Or later in the same arc where a depowered mortal Thor kept up with Captain America on a mission.

That's just one example

I guess its all open to interpretation but I choose to think of Thor has a highly skilled warrior. Heck Marvel.com says he's an expert swordsman!

Asgardians are almost always at war or in peril. Thor is their warrior prince. He was groomed to be their greatest warrior. I'm no expert on Kal's combat training/experience, but I seriously doubt that he can hold a candle to Thor

I.... (Two seconds. The words haven't formulated in my head yet).

I wouldn't say the Asgardians aren't Vikings, as they are the sole inspiration, and reflection of Vikings. From their drinking, down to their easy to get into a fight with attitude. Thor even has his little berserker syndrome common amongst vikings.

And while you have a few examples of Thor acting outside of his element, a few examples do not make up the vast majority of how Thor tends to end up getting hurt, or sometimes beaten, because he doesn't use tactics.

His battles with the Hulk are a classic example. Thor could have easily, and with far little surrounding damage, removed Hulk if he strategized, but instead opted for a clash. Most of his fights are like this. Crusher Creel, the Dark Gods, most of his enemies.

 

[The_Mystery]

You know, I've given the JLA alot of credit. I agree the Supes could beat many of their member, but when I point their are Avengers that could beat Superman it's almost like you guys treat it as blasphemy. Yes, I agree, the Flash is a hard opponent to beat. But even I don't think he could beat Superman. Wonder Woman, yeah, he might be able to bring her down, Captain Marvel, maybe.

You guys don't give ANY credit to the JLA because, like I said, DC Comics has gone to tremendous pains to amp their characters up so that they seem ultra-powerful and they have pushed it in readers faces so much that they believe it. I'm just pointing out that the Avengers have just as much firepower as the Avengers do AND they have a better leader. God forbid I point out that your precious JLA can be beaten.

 

[Marvin]

I'm sorry...did someone post that Cap is not an inspiration?! He's the symbol of freakin' America!!! He's the entire reason Civil War exists in the MU right now!!! If Cap had gone along with the Registration Act, I guarantee that the "Resistance" would be alot smaller than it is now. People follow Cap because he's damn near always right in every battle situation. I can't say the same for Supes. By the way, I would rather follow a great leader who is an inspiration than someone who is just an inspiration.

um, the very fact that cap hasn't got everyone on his side in civil says enough...

batman tells the whole planet to follow/help superman they do it
(morrison/Jla)

ask urself
do people outside of america love captain(and George W) as much?
lol

now take away the leadership part and ask yourself who can still inspire more?
ergo inspiration

 

[The_Mystery]

Agree with the Mistress, but I just think Thor likes to fight. He takes pleasure in it. I don't think it's always for the win, but for the battle itself.

 

[bkhedr]

As I said its all open to interpretation

To me Thor is a very skilled warrior but his temperment/pride get him into trouble (that's the problem with gods)

He's so determined to prove that he is stronger than the guy in front of him that he will cast aside everything else (including Mjolnir) to make his point. That's why the Hulk whups him all the time.

Not saying you are wrong, but I am going to stick my view of Thor as being a highly skilled, if far too full of pride, warrior

 

[The_Mystery]

um, the very fact that cap hasn't got everyone on his side in civil says enough...Yet, everyone who reads comics thinks Tony is a bastard...hmmmm...

batman tells the whole planet to follow/help superman they do it
(morrison/Jla)It wasn't a moral issue, it was an issue of survival. 2 different things.

ask urself
do people outside of america love captain(and George W) as much?
lol No, but people outside of Marvel's America look up to Cap. Check the 1st issue of Waid/Garney's reboot of the character from Heroes Reborn.

now take away the leadership part and ask yourself who can still inspire more?
ergo inspiration

Cap is an inspiration all around the world and to EVERY hero in Marvel. Even people like Wolverine and the Punisher respect and more than likely begruginly(sp) admire him.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

It's not really that. But you basically have a nice little team of Supermen against a team that barely has one. And while I believe given the examples and heresay, and what Marvel obviously wants him to be, the Sentry is more powerful than any one of them individually, even the Sentry has serious problems. For example, if three people teamed up on the Sentry, he might have a few problems mentally, from claustrophobia, and his phobia of crowds. Likewise, if they just had one of them launch him into space via Zatanna, he has a huge phobia of large empty spaces. And in truth, the Sentry would HAVE to be their trump card.

The lineups are as you have follows:
Cap
Hercules
Quicksilver
Vison
Scarlet Witch
Wasp
Ms. Marvel
Sentry
Thor
Iron Man
Moondragon

Bats
Wonder Woman
Flash
Martian Manhunter
Zatanna
Atom
Hawkman
GL
Supes
Aquaman
Green Arrow

If you begin to compare the teams, their strength levels and abilities, you begin to see it's fairly one sided.

MoonDragon doesn't even have the level of telepathy that J'onn has. And J'onn is a Superman level fighter outside of that.

Wonder Woman is as well, and Aquaman is just under her in power levels alone.

Not only do they have one of the greatest hand to hand fighters on the GLA, you have two, with Green Arrow.

Quicksilver is only the fourth or fifth fastest person there, and speed is all he has.

Iron Man isn't really all THAT tough. Most of the JLA could take him down.

Scarlet Witch (assuming we're not talking about the one who will just as easily eliminate her team), would probably fall to Zatanna's quickly worded spells.

The Atom can become smaller than the Wasp, and so continually suprise a flighty Wasp back and forth.

Ms. Marvel is on no comparison with strength levels concerning the JLA, as is Hercules for the most part. And both J'onn and Superman could probably kill them with their heat beams.

The only odd one on the Avengers that they truly have going for them outside of the Sentry is the Vision. And he's not TOO much of a challenge for someone who can phase like he does.

It all comes down to the Sentry. And since the Sentry is just unstable as to whether he'll do good or not, and since he's under constant threat of limiting himself, I wouldn't say he clinches it at all.

 

[bkhedr]

Agree with the Mistress, but I just think Thor likes to fight. He takes pleasure in it. I don't think it's always for the win, but for the battle itself.

Aye

Verily tis only from the thrill of battle and risking life and limb that the thunder god can feel true satisfaction

 

[Marvin]

You know, I've given the JLA alot of credit. I agree the Supes could beat many of their member, but when I point their are Avengers that could beat Superman it's almost like you guys treat it as blasphemy. Yes, I agree, the Flash is a hard opponent to beat. But even I don't think he could beat Superman. Wonder Woman, yeah, he might be able to bring her down, Captain Marvel, maybe.

You guys don't give ANY credit to the JLA because, like I said, DC Comics has gone to tremendous pains to amp their characters up so that they seem ultra-powerful and they have pushed it in readers faces so much that they believe it. I'm just pointing out that the Avengers have just as much firepower as the Avengers do AND they have a better leader. God forbid I point out that your precious JLA can be beaten.

the best part is for all the badly written overpowerd gods on earth that dc makes...

mavel seems to have just as many...whom are just as capaple...

Gl is said to be overpowered/Flash/ MM/ Superman/ Batman for petes sake

yet the avenges roster itself can not only take them down, but match them?

anyhoo

don't talk of giving lack of credit when u're giving superman some magical disadvantage

yes the flash can take him out

 

[bkhedr]

It's not really that. But you basically have a nice little team of Supermen against a team that barely has one. And while I believe given the examples and heresay, and what Marvel obviously wants him to be, the Sentry is more powerful than any one of them individually, even the Sentry has serious problems. For example, if three people teamed up on the Sentry, he might have a few problems mentally, from claustrophobia, and his phobia of crowds. Likewise, if they just had one of them launch him into space via Zatanna, he has a huge phobia of large empty spaces. And in truth, the Sentry would HAVE to be their trump card.

The lineups are as you have follows:
Cap
Hercules
Quicksilver Namor
Vison
Scarlet Witch
Wasp Quasar
Ms. Marvel
Sentry
Thor
Iron Man
Moondragon Sersi

Bats
Wonder Woman
Flash
Martian Manhunter
Zatanna
Atom
Hawkman
GL
Supes
Aquaman
Green Arrow

If you begin to compare the teams, their strength levels and abilities, you begin to see it's fairly one sided.

MoonDragon doesn't even have the level of telepathy that J'onn has. And J'onn is a Superman level fighter outside of that.

Wonder Woman is as well, and Aquaman is just under her in power levels alone.

Not only do they have one of the greatest hand to hand fighters on the GLA, you have two, with Green Arrow.

Quicksilver is only the fourth or fifth fastest person there, and speed is all he has.

Iron Man isn't really all THAT tough. Most of the JLA could take him down.

Scarlet Witch (assuming we're not talking about the one who will just as easily eliminate her team), would probably fall to Zatanna's quickly worded spells.

The Atom can become smaller than the Wasp, and so continually suprise a flighty Wasp back and forth.

Ms. Marvel is on no comparison with strength levels concerning the JLA, as is Hercules for the most part. And both J'onn and Superman could probably kill them with their heat beams.

The only odd one on the Avengers that they truly have going for them outside of the Sentry is the Vision. And he's not TOO much of a challenge for someone who can phase like he does.

It all comes down to the Sentry. And since the Sentry is just unstable as to whether he'll do good or not, and since he's under constant threat of limiting himself, I wouldn't say he clinches it at all.

The Avengers can field a much more powerful team than that.

See my alterations

Namor needs no introduction

Quasar is basically a Green Lantern and he's not to be taken lightly (you dont get to be Protector of the Universe for being a pushover)

Sersi's strength and endurance are impressive ( I once saw her clock Hercules but good) and the fact that she is arguably the best matter transmuter in the MU is huge.

and that doesnt include Ares and Gilgamesh

Again I'm not saying the Avengers will win, just saying that they can bring alot of power to bear. Certainly enough to make this a heated battle

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Having Sersi in there DEFINITELY increases the Avengers chances.

 

[The_Mystery]

It's not really that. But you basically have a nice little team of Supermen against a team that barely has one So you're tellin' me Thor, Hercules, Sentry, Vision, Scarlet Witch & Iron Man aren't heavy-hitters.. And while I believe given the examples and heresay, and what Marvel obviously wants him to be, the Sentry is more powerful than any one of them individually, even the Sentry has serious problems. For example, if three people teamed up on the Sentry, he might have a few problems mentally, from claustrophobia, and his phobia of crowds. That's never happened in a comic before. Probably never would. His alter ege seems to have Agorophobia- fear of being outside. He's been in battles and his fears have never been a factor. Likewise, if they just had one of them launch him into space via Zatanna, I'm sure she'd be alittle busy with the Scarlet Witch he has a huge phobia of large empty spaces. And in truth, the Sentry would HAVE to be their trump card.

The lineups are as you have follows:
Cap
Hercules
Quicksilver
Vison
Scarlet Witch
Wasp
Ms. Marvel
Sentry
Thor
Iron Man
Moondragon

Bats
Wonder Woman
Flash
Martian Manhunter
Zatanna
Atom
Hawkman
GL
Supes
Aquaman
Green Arrow

If you begin to compare the teams, their strength levels and abilities, you begin to see it's fairly one sided.

MoonDragon doesn't even have the level of telepathy that J'onn has. And J'onn is a Superman level fighter outside of that. Really, how do you figure that. She's shown to be just as strong "telepathy-wise" as J'onn.

Wonder Woman is as well, and Aquaman is just under her in power levels alone. Aquaman is not "just under" Wonder Woman. Wonder Woman is damn near on par with Supes.

Not only do they have one of the greatest hand to hand fighters on the GLA, you have two, with Green Arrow. Well not only do the Avengers have THE greatest hand to hand figher, but damn near the entire roster has been trained by him. Look at Tony fight, without armor and a bad heart, in the 1st issue of "The Illuminati."

Quicksilver is only the fourth or fifth fastest person there, and speed is all he has. All he needs to do is hold off the Flash long enough to recieve help. I didn't saw he would though. I agree, the Flash would handle Pietro very easily.

Iron Man isn't really all THAT tough. Most of the JLA could take him down. Wow, talk about not giving a character who has gone one on one with Thor and the Hulk any credt.

Scarlet Witch (assuming we're not talking about the one who will just as easily eliminate her team), would probably fall to Zatanna's quickly worded spells. Once again, not giving the character any credit.

The Atom can become smaller than the Wasp, and so continually suprise a flighty Wasp back and forth. Okay, I might be able to go with you there. But I will say the Wasp has flight and her wasp stings on her side.

Ms. Marvel is on no comparison with strength levels concerning the JLA, as is Hercules for the most part. And both J'onn and Superman could probably kill them with their heat beams. Yeah, cause Clark and J'onn are just killers. Anyway, Ms. Marvel is pretty powerful. She could absorb Supes "heat beams" or "maybe" even GL's ring power. Hercules by the way is the original strong man who goes one on one with the Hulk, Thor and Namor. He's stronger than most people give him credit for.

The only odd one on the Avengers that they truly have going for them outside of the Sentry is the Vision. And he's not TOO much of a challenge for someone who can phase like he does. I see. I'm sorry, you're right, you haven't been brain-washed at all.

It all comes down to the Sentry. And since the Sentry is just unstable as to whether he'll do good or not, and since he's under constant threat of limiting himself, I wouldn't say he clinches it at all. Yeah, cause Hal, J'onn, Bruce and Diana are the most stable personalities, right.

Really, try and have an open mind here.

 

[bkhedr]

And Namor would tear Aquaman a new blowhole

(at least based on what I know about Aquaman so I could be wrong here)

To me Namor could go toe to tow with WW. He's a powerhouse. Also I really think you guys are shortchanging Hercules. He's the god of strength. He's probably the best wrestler in all of comicdom (having invented it) and he's listed as class 100 (equal to Thor)

To me Herc doesnt make a big difference in this fight because he isnt very versatile compared to the people he'd be fighting. But I reject the notion that Herc would be outclassed in terms of sheer strength by anyone on the JLA short of Supes, and even then not by much. And lets not forget his thousands of years of experience!

He's freaking Hercules. Heat beams cant kill him. He's an olympian. Mistress G put him on par with Ms Marvel when, in my opnion, he could snap her like a twig.

Herc gets no love at all