JLA vs avengers

[Ultimate_Superman]

Do you mean the current "Superman" title (now at #657) or do you mean "All Star Superman"?

edit: Or do you mean "Action Comics"?

Action or "Superman" it doesn't matter they over powered him big time now. Thats why they are upping the level on the the people he fights.

 

[US Agent]

Here's the problem with the JLA winning to me. The question is this (oh and BTW FadingCB you hit the nail right on the head!) who on the JLA can REALLy stop Sentry and Thor? NOBODY! These 2 alone can handle the JLA! Kitsune, this is the reason I hate superman. He is always given more powers to make him "totally unstoppable"! WTFE! Cap is the greatest leader in all of comics and you guys are right, this is why Avengers would win. Nobody can stop Sentry and Thor. I mean can you guys imagine these 2 working together? One guy is the God of Thunder and the other went toe-to-toe with a planet eating Celestial! WOW!

 

[BrianWilly]

The Punisher comes to mind. Thor is a warrior God, warriors fight battles and kill. Superman refuses to kill. So in my mind, Superman would not be worthy by Norse Warrior Standards.

Um, no. Just no.

The standards of the Marvel Universe Norse gods are not the same as the Vikings/Norse warriors of any universe. This has been touched on a number of times in Thor's series. The actual Norse gods in the Marvel universe were very honorable and forbade violence without just cause; their concepts of morality were much closer to our modern concepts than to their ancient worshippers'. In the past, when Thor found out that a lot of his worshippers were raping and pillaging in his name, he was shocked and angered and withdrew from humanity in disappointment. Incidentally, this is also why Thor never bothered to grow a beard; he wasn't a Viking, and he didn't care to be associated with one.

So in the Marvel universe, the Punisher is not nearly worthy enough to wield Mjolnir. By comparison, people like Superman or Captain America are far more worthy. If killing people and being a warrior was what it took to lift Mjolnir, then Dr. Doom would have been able to do it.

Kitsune, this is the reason I hate superman. He is always given more powers to make him "totally unstoppable"!

Nobody can stop Sentry and Thor.

Uh...so Superman being unstoppable is stupid, but Sentry or Thor being unstoppable is just badass, right?

 

[Darthphere]

Makes sense to me....

 

[bkhedr]

This line of thinking always bothers me. You're telling me that a team with two demi-gods, an Eternal, the greatest tactician in the universe (as acknowledged by several sources), more than its fair share of bona-fide super geniuses, and (on several occasions) the Incredible Hulk as members is underpowered?

Granted, the JLA has none too few heavy hitters, with three characters in the Superman-class. However, of the usual big seven lineup, only the Flash (Wally West) imbalances things in favor of the Justice League. I'm as big a fan of Big Blue as anybody you'll find on these boards, but Thor has him just beat out (for the same reason that Captain Marvel should beat Superman: when all other physical stats are equal, magic will give them the edge against Superman). Wonder Woman and the Martian Manhunter are also incredibly powerful, but if the Avengers lineup in question is packing the Hulk and the Sentry, it essentially takes the "big bombs" out of both teams for the duration of the fight.

Captain America will beat Batman eventually. Yes, they start out about dead even, but the Super Soldier Serum coursing through Cap's veins keeps his body from being fatigued. Batman doesn't have that. So, in a prolonged engagement, Cap should take Batman down. That leaves just the Green Lantern against whatever else the Avengers can throw at him, and that's going to be a tough job for anyone with an Oan power ring.

Now, don't ge me wrong, this did require an upgunning for the Avengers and a degunning for the JLA (as the Flash is almost unquesitonably the most powerful member of the League). Any way you cut it, though, a matchup like this is going to depend on the lineup of the teams involved. Even taking teams at their absolute peak of power (the Avengers having King Thor and the JLA having Superman One Million), it's really more of a stalemate than anything.

And besides, you woudl in fact need two "Earth's Greatest Heroes" for two Earths, right? So why can't everyone get along?

(Really enjoyed that part of JLAvengers)...

Acctually there are 2 gods (Ares and Thor) and one demi-god (Hercules)
There are also three eternals (Sersi, Gilgamesh, Starfox)
Not to mention the freakin Hulk

As for GL, Aparently Photon can absorb his power and even without her Quasar ought to match up with him pretty good. And I dont want to hear anyone hating on Quasar. He's got the Quantum Bandas and he's protector of the Universe.

 

[bkhedr]

Here's the problem with the JLA winning to me. The question is this (oh and BTW FadingCB you hit the nail right on the head!) who on the JLA can REALLy stop Sentry and Thor? NOBODY! These 2 alone can handle the JLA! Kitsune, this is the reason I hate superman. He is always given more powers to make him "totally unstoppable"! WTFE! Cap is the greatest leader in all of comics and you guys are right, this is why Avengers would win. Nobody can stop Sentry and Thor. I mean can you guys imagine these 2 working together? One guy is the God of Thunder and the other went toe-to-toe with a planet eating Celestial! WOW!

I have to disagree with you there. If its just Thor and Sentry vs the entire JLA, the two Avengers go down pretty easily.

Thor and Supes go toe to toe while the rest of the JLA dogpiles the Sentry

 

[bkhedr]

Everyone brings up the "fact" that Supes would use his super-speed to take out everyone, but look at his history. He rarely starts off using his speed because he thinks he's invulnerable and that he could probably take whatever's thrown at him. That would be his mistake, especially against Thor. By the way, I'm not saying that any Joe Shmoe with magic can beat Supes, but when you have a God of Thunder with a magic hammer who also has the strength to pull islands and such, then I'm thinkin' Supes might be in trouble.

By the way, if you're talking about teams that are better with strategy and teamwork, that all boils down to leadership. The Avengers are led by Captain America, while the JLA has at least 3 or 4 folks trying to call the shots. Cap's team wins because not only is he the best, but his soliders are just as powerful than the JLA and would follow his commands better.

Thor's godblast would kill Superman. Its a magical attack and while I am not trying to exxagerate his weakness to magic lets assume that Supes is just as vunerable to magic as your average human (no more/no less) that being the case the Godblast would vaporize him.

 

[bkhedr]

there are two schools of thought on the hammer (roughly)
john byrne says it would be akin to a body builder hitting another body builder with a sledgehammer (ie pretty much lethal)
Kurt busiek argues superman only has no defense against magic other than his natural ones and because mjolnir isn't charmed to destroy what it hits (relying on thors natural strength) supermans invurnerability will protect him from most of it.

Byrne is right IMO. I mean look at Supes and Thor, both fairly invulnerable, both super strong. They punch each other and it hurts. Now one of them picks up a warhammer and slugs the other one. Supes or not, he should lose a tooth at least. Catching Mjolnir in full swing should have broken his hand (and its not about it being magic as much as it is about it being an uru hammer swung by a guy with class 100 strength)

 

[CBK]

couldn't thor just whip up a portal and throw superman into it, end of the fight right there.

 

[The_Mystery]

Yes...yes, he could.

 

[Varient]

SMH @ serious fanboy denial.

1. How come thor can be scratched and bruised by battle with sumbody in from Wrecker to Hulk Range,.. yet he's supposed to be "as" invulnerable" as someone who Needs to expend most of his power stores to even be bruised by someone in that power range after HOURS of fighting?

2. When has Thor EVER "whipped up a portal" to end a fight against a strong foe? I seem to recall that Juggernaut beat him a few times,... coulda just "whipped up a portal" to the bottom of the ocean to "end the fight" HE DOEN'T Use the travel portion of his powers in a fight.

3. Why is it assumed that the God Blast will be utilized? Both are BoyScouts in their own ways and Superman could literally set his heat vision to vaporize, (He is canoned to be able to adjust aperture and intensity), and just waste Thor? Because both are "reluctant" to terminate living intelligent beings,... I don't see him pulling that out unless the planet was in danger or he was in fear of losing his Immortal life,.. So get off the "GOD BLAST TRUMPS ALL" riff.

4. Why do the more illogical of you say things in the same breath like "Superman is way overpowered and therefore boring" and "Thor and Supes are "about" the same strength level?" If "Superman is Overpowered" Then So is Thor "IF" you put him in the same power range.

5. Why is it assumed that Marvel Asgardian Godlet trumps DC Kryptonian Orphan? There are A LOT of characters who Thor cannot whoop in his universe who happen to be Aliens,.. Starting with Thanos and working your way up. (SMILE) Read the Origion of "Beta-Ray-Bill" for an example of sumbody from another planet who WHOOPED THOR.

Heck,... It just isn't enough for Avengers fans to accept that they beat the JLA IF they don't go up against their opposites,.. Some of you are trying to tell lies about THOR to convince yourself that he has a chance unaugmented.

TSK.

 

[Horrorfan]

Sentry takes the JLA on his own easy.Hell, does anyone read SS? Thats shown many times that the avengers could take down JLA, although the fights are always close, they are always well written and done in a ''realistic'' manner of how they could take them down.

 

[CBK]

I think someones taking the portal in a fight too seriously i was just asking a question...but im sure he has done it at least once..have u read every single one of thor's fights to know he hasnt done it?

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Seriously... Make up your freakin' mind! First you say it happened, then you flip flop and say there's no proof, and now you're back to saying it happened for sure. I'm done responding to you and your 217 IQ - 10th degree blackbelt ass. Please do not quote me or respond to any of my posts ever again. Seriously. Never again. Including this one.

Too bad, I hardly take to commands.

I never "flip flopped" anything. I've always said that the Sentry/Galactus fight should be there.

And I never said anything about a black belt. You kind of threw that one in all on your own.

But I AM a little...I guess dissapointed. You didn't react in the same way I thought you were going to. Instead of just becoming tons more cautious and analytical of what I was saying, you just became out and out against me. Which is fine, too, as it served an entire other purpose unrelated. But still, all I really wanted was someone who was much more willing to argue, not blast needlessly. Oh well, so life goes. =/

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

SMH @ serious fanboy denial.

1. How come thor can be scratched and bruised by battle with sumbody in from Wrecker to Hulk Range,.. yet he's supposed to be "as" invulnerable" as someone who Needs to expend most of his power stores to even be bruised by someone in that power range after HOURS of fighting?

2. When has Thor EVER "whipped up a portal" to end a fight against a strong foe? I seem to recall that Juggernaut beat him a few times,... coulda just "whipped up a portal" to the bottom of the ocean to "end the fight" HE DOEN'T Use the travel portion of his powers in a fight.

3. Why is it assumed that the God Blast will be utilized? Both are BoyScouts in their own ways and Superman could literally set his heat vision to vaporize, (He is canoned to be able to adjust aperture and intensity), and just waste Thor? Because both are "reluctant" to terminate living intelligent beings,... I don't see him pulling that out unless the planet was in danger or he was in fear of losing his Immortal life,.. So get off the "GOD BLAST TRUMPS ALL" riff.

4. Why do the more illogical of you say things in the same breath like "Superman is way overpowered and therefore boring" and "Thor and Supes are "about" the same strength level?" If "Superman is Overpowered" Then So is Thor "IF" you put him in the same power range.

5. Why is it assumed that Marvel Asgardian Godlet trumps DC Kryptonian Orphan? There are A LOT of characters who Thor cannot whoop in his universe who happen to be Aliens,.. Starting with Thanos and working your way up. (SMILE) Read the Origion of "Beta-Ray-Bill" for an example of sumbody from another planet who WHOOPED THOR.

Heck,... It just isn't enough for Avengers fans to accept that they beat the JLA IF they don't go up against their opposites,.. Some of you are trying to tell lies about THOR to convince yourself that he has a chance unaugmented.

TSK.

God Blast. I was always curious why people thought Thor would fall back on it no matter what. He only ever uses the God Blast in dire situations, not just ANY situation. Unless Superman posed a humongous threat, Thor wouldn't consider using it.

The assumption of the God/Man is made on magic. And not really just the standard any magic beats Superman stereotype, but more of the powerful, far more destructive magic Thor wields, like his high end lightning and windstorms which should give him the edge. Though I agree that shouldn't give him an automatic win. It's not like Superman has never fought someone like Thor before. However, to be fair, you can't just super count the Beta Ray/Thor fight as a comparable fight, as Thor was given a handicap to fight Beta Ray to see who was the true bearer of Mjolnir.

 

[Horrorfan]

As far as I am concerned, untill it's proven otherwise, Galactus vs sentry is canon. Just because a mind wipe made everyone forget, doesn't mean that it was somehow wiped from continuity. It seems to me those who argue against it do so because admitting it happened would be to admit Sentry is way beyond even superman.

 

[The_Mystery]

SMH @ serious fanboy denial.

1. How come thor can be scratched and bruised by battle with sumbody in from Wrecker to Hulk Range,.. yet he's supposed to be "as" invulnerable" as someone who Needs to expend most of his power stores to even be bruised by someone in that power range after HOURS of fighting?
THOR MIGHT NOT BE INVULNERABLE, BUT HE DOESN'T NEED TO BE TOTALLY INVULNERABLE IF HE CAN WITHSTAND BLOWS FROM IRONMAN, THANOS, THE ASGARDIAN DESTROYER & SUPERMAN HIMSELF.

2. When has Thor EVER "whipped up a portal" to end a fight against a strong foe? I seem to recall that Juggernaut beat him a few times,... coulda just "whipped up a portal" to the bottom of the ocean to "end the fight" HE DOEN'T Use the travel portion of his powers in a fight.
ACTUALLY, IN THE SECOND ISSUE OF DAN JURGENS RUN ON THOR HE "WIPPED UP A MORTAL" AND TRANSPORTED THE ASGARDIAN DESTROYER DEEP INTO SPACE. Y'KNOW, JUST SAYIN.

3. Why is it assumed that the God Blast will be utilized? Both are BoyScouts in their own ways and Superman could literally set his heat vision to vaporize, (He is canoned to be able to adjust aperture and intensity), and just waste Thor? Because both are "reluctant" to terminate living intelligent beings,... I don't see him pulling that out unless the planet was in danger or he was in fear of losing his Immortal life,.. So get off the "GOD BLAST TRUMPS ALL" riff.
HE DOESN'T HAVE TO USE THE "GODBLAST", HE CAN JUST USE HIS OWN LIGHTING TO LAY INTO SUPES. Y'KNOW, IT WOULD BE MAGIC LIGHTING BECAUSE IT IS CREATED MAGICALLY AND SUPERMAN HAS SHOWN IN THE PAST TO BE VULNERABLE TO MAGIC LIGHTING.

4. Why do the more illogical of you say things in the same breath like "Superman is way overpowered and therefore boring" and "Thor and Supes are "about" the same strength level?" If "Superman is Overpowered" Then So is Thor "IF" you put him in the same power range.
IN MY OPINION, BOTH CHARACTERS ARE ABOUT EVEN ANYWAY. THOR JUST HAPPENS TO HAVE CENTURIES MORE EXPERIENCE IN BATTLE THAN SUPES. THOR IS A BORN AND BRED WARRIOR AND, TAKING NOTHING ABOUT FROM CLARK'S BATTLE SAVVY, SUPERMAN, WHEN YOU BOIL HIM DOWN TO HIS ESSENCE IS JUST A NICE FARM BOY TRYING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

5. Why is it assumed that Marvel Asgardian Godlet trumps DC Kryptonian Orphan? There are A LOT of characters who Thor cannot whoop in his universe who happen to be Aliens,.. Starting with Thanos and working your way up. (SMILE) Read the Origion of "Beta-Ray-Bill" for an example of sumbody from another planet who WHOOPED THOR.
YEP, THOR GOT BEAT BY BETA-RAY-BILL. ALTHOUGH, YOU HAVE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT HE DIDN'T HAVE HIS MAGIC HAMMER WITH HIM. JUST SAYIN...

Heck,... It just isn't enough for Avengers fans to accept that they beat the JLA IF they don't go up against their opposites,.. Some of you are trying to tell lies about THOR to convince yourself that he has a chance unaugmented.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE AVENGERS ARE JUST GONNA RUN ROUGHSHOD OVER THE JLA, BUT, IN MY OPINION, WHEN THE DUST SETTLES, THE ONLY BATTLE PARTICIPANTS STANDING WOULD BE AVENGERS (PROBABLY DUDES LIKE CAP, THOR & SENTRY.

TSK.

Like I said before, the JLA is like a big united nations of Superheroes, but the Avengers is like the marines crossed with the army.

 

[roach]

Current teams I have to give it to the JLA

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

As far as I am concerned, untill it's proven otherwise, Galactus vs sentry is canon. Just because a mind wipe made everyone forget, doesn't mean that it was somehow wiped from continuity. It seems to me those who argue against it do so because admitting it happened would be to admit Sentry is way beyond even superman.

Actually there are many factors we must take into account before judging that Sentry is far more powerful. First is the fact that we don't know how well fed Galactus was at the time and despite what you may believe his powers diminish greatly when not well fed.

Also the fact that Superman(with help) has Taken on threats even more powerful than Galactus(anyone remeber Imperiex?).

 

[The_Mystery]

Actually there are many factors we must take into account before judging that Sentry is far more powerful. First is the fact that we don't know how well fed Galactus was at the time and despite what you may believe his powers diminish greatly when not well fed.

Also the fact that Superman(with help) has Taken on threats even more powerful than Galactus(anyone remeber Imperiex?).

Ummm...Supes had A LOT of help with Imperiex.

 

[Horrorfan]

Superman had help. Sentry didn't.


The real Galactus enslaved Superman as his herald and took him out of the fight with one blow. Not to mention Superman always had trouble with Hulk, when Sentry/Void has none whatsoever.


As far as I am concerned, Sentry is light years beyond superman.

 

[The_Mystery]

Let me put it this way: If every person who was ever a member of the JLA fought every member who was ever an Avenger, the Avengers would come out of top. I say this because EVERY time the Avengers en masse come together they look to one man for leadership: Captain America. The JLA would be tripping over their own feet trying to determine who is in charge. It doesn't matter if you have Superman on your team if you don't know the best use for his talents. Cap has led armies into war and always come out of top. Hell, even the JLA knew it in the JLA/Avengers crossover. Throw in Thor, Ironman, Sentry, the Hulk, Namor, Crystal (hey, she's a powerhouse if you think about it. She has control over ALL 4 ELEMENTS) and you have a winning team.

 

[roach]

ok i need info on the Sentry/Galactus fight...was it shown or was it something people talk about????

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

As far as I am concerned, untill it's proven otherwise, Galactus vs sentry is canon. Just because a mind wipe made everyone forget, doesn't mean that it was somehow wiped from continuity. It seems to me those who argue against it do so because admitting it happened would be to admit Sentry is way beyond even superman.

Well, I believe they're afraid that if he's THAT level of power, it would be like sending in Thor to take care of burglar problems all the time.

 

[roach]

Let me put it this way: If every person who was ever a member of the JLA fought every member who was ever an Avenger, the Avengers would come out of top. I say this because EVERY time the Avengers en masse come together they look to one man for leadership: Captain America. The JLA would be tripping over their own feet trying to determine who is in charge. It doesn't matter if you have Superman on your team if you don't know the best use for his talents. Cap has led armies into war and always come out of top. Hell, even the JLA knew it in the JLA/Avengers crossover. Throw in Thor, Ironman, Sentry, the Hulk, Namor, Crystal (hey, she's a powerhouse if you think about it. She has control over ALL 4 ELEMENTS) and you have a winning team.

Incorrect as the JLA always look to Superman for their leadership