JLA vs avengers

[LouFerignoDemon]

ok i need info on the Sentry/Galactus fight...was it shown or was it something people talk about????

Spider-Man said that the Sentry had fought Galactus to a standstill in the original Sentry mini.

 

[roach]

Spider-Man said that the Sentry had fought Galactus to a standstill in the original Sentry mini.

so while this is "cannon" it has never been shown.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Actually there are many factors we must take into account before judging that Sentry is far more powerful. First is the fact that we don't know how well fed Galactus was at the time and despite what you may believe his powers diminish greatly when not well fed.

Also the fact that Superman(with help) has Taken on threats even more powerful than Galactus(anyone remeber Imperiex?).

Actually, I wouldn't say Imperiex was more powerful than Galactus. Imperiex, if I remember correctly, was actually defeated, where Galactus is either overpowered by extreme cosmic entities, or tricked into his defeats. Though I forgot HOW they forced Imperiex to the beginning event.

So there's no way to say whether which is more powerful.

Though I agree about Galactus and his feeding.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

so while this is "cannon" it has never been shown.

The mini is considered canon. The fans themselves are up in debate whether that fight was canon or not.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Incorrect as the JLA always look to Superman for their leadership

Or Martian Manhunter.

 

[roach]

The mini is considered canon. The fans themselves are up in debate whether that fight was canon or not.

what were the actual words....if you think about it Reed Richards with the Ultimate Nullifier single handedly beat Galactus too

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

I'm I sensing some DC hatred?


Ok to me it boils down like this......

1.) Superman- Who know is better than he has ever been. He is approaching his late Silver-Age power levels again(not planet juggling or towing but planetmoving nearly) The thing is that we must factor in that Superman is far better than Thor at using his speed and reaction time to dodge the blows of lumbering opponents(Believe it or not he does dodge and speedblitz. People seem to forget that if he needed to he could operate totaly invisible by vibrating himself.). People keep saying Thor will clean his clock but I see it the other way around especially if Superman decides to unleash some mental blocks.

2.) Batman- is NOT going to beat Cap.

3.)The Flash- Assuming that we are talking Wally here(although it is speculated that Bart may soon become the most powerful Flash) can probably take out most of the team by himself assuming of course that he actually would be trying. I mean we are talking about someone who once sped faster than Instantaneous travel.

4.)Green Lantern-His powers vary from borderline reality manipulator to Cosmic entity who has nigh infinite power! Iron Man is NOT beating him!

5.)She Hulk is NOT gonna beat Wondy period.

6.)If Zattana is there its all over. She make the Scarlet Witch look like nothing! She can freaking do anything by speaking it backwards! Heck i'd say she would STOMP Dr. Strange at his best.




The thing I like better about the JLA is they hold back more and work in a better manner together. But when an ugly Cosmic threat shows itself they know how to lay down the law.

and whats with all these people pulling out reserve members to try and overpower the JLA. Some of these guys haven't fought alongside them in years!

 

[roach]

Or Martian Manhunter.

I see him as Superman's sage

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

what were the actual words....if you think about it Reed Richards with the Ultimate Nullifier single handedly beat Galactus too

"Fought Galactus to a standstill."

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I'm I sensing some DC hatred?


Ok to me it boils down like this......

1.) Superman- Who know is better than he has ever been. He is approaching his late Silver-Age power levels again(not planet juggling or towing but planetmoving nearly) The thing is that we must factor in that Superman is far better than Thor at using his speed and reaction time to dodge the blows of lumbering opponents(Believe it or not he does dodge and speedblitz. People seem to forget that if he needed to he could operate totaly invisible by vibrating himself.). People keep saying Thor will clean his clock but I see it the other way around especially if Superman decides to unleash some mental blocks.

2.) Batman- is NOT going to beat Cap.

3.)The Flash- Assuming that we are talking Wally here(although it is speculated that Bart may soon become the most powerful Flash) can probably take out most of the team by himself assuming of course that he actually would be trying. I mean we are talking about someone who once sped faster than Instantaneous travel.

4.)Green Lantern-His powers vary from borderline reality manipulator to Cosmic entity who has nigh infinite power! Iron Man is NOT beating him!

5.)She Hulk is NOT gonna beat Wondy period.

6.)If Zattana is there its all over. She make the Scarlet Witch look like nothing! She can freaking do anything by speaking it backwards! Heck i'd say she would STOMP Dr. Strange at his best.




The thing I like better about the JLA is they hold back more and work in a better manner together. But when an ugly Cosmic threat shows itself they know how to lay down the law.

and whats with all these people pulling out reserve members to try and overpower the JLA. Some of these guys haven't fought alongside them in years!

For the most part, I agree, though Thor could be more trouble that what you're kind of implying.

However, I don't agree with Zatanna. The SW could, especially given her pre-hysterical fit powers, just keep Zatanna from pronouncing words. And Strange could make her forget how to do it altogether.

Zatanna's powerful, no doubt, but not on Strange's level, and probably would have serious trouble against SW, who gave Strange trouble.

 

[The_Mystery]

I'm I sensing some DC hatred?


Ok to me it boils down like this......

1.) Superman- Who know is better than he has ever been. He is approaching his late Silver-Age power levels again(not planet juggling or towing but planetmoving nearly) The thing is that we must factor in that Superman is far better than Thor at using his speed and reaction time to dodge the blows of lumbering opponents(Believe it or not he does dodge and speedblitz. People seem to forget that if he needed to he could operate totaly invisible by vibrating himself.). People keep saying Thor will clean his clock but I see it the other way around especially if Superman decides to unleash some mental blocks.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE THE MOST POWERFUL TO WIN A FIGHT. SUPERMAN MIGHT POSSESS GREAT STRENGTH THAN THOR, BUT THOR HAS SPEND HIS ENTIRE LIFE FIGHTING. HE IS A MASTER IN THE ART OF COMBAT. I'M SURE HE'S BEATEN PEOPLE THAT WERE FASTER OR MORE POWERFUL THAN HIM BEFORE. SUPERMAN LACKS THE EXPERIENCE TO EFFECTIVELY TAKE HIM DOWN. HELL, IF BATMAN, A MAN WITH NO POWERS, CAN TAKE DOWN SUPERMAN USING ONE OF HIS WEAKNESSES, KRYPTONITE, THEN WHY CAN'T PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THOR, A GOD, CAN TAKE DOWN SUPES USING ANOTHER OF HIS WEAKNESSES, MAGIC?

2.) Batman- is NOT going to beat Cap.
ON ONE HAND YOU HAVE THE GREATEST FIGHTER IN THE DC UNIVERSE AND ON THE OTHER YOU HAVE THE GREATEST FIGHTER IN ANY UNIVERSE. ONE CAN TIRE OUT AND THE OTHER CAN'T. IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE TO ME.

3.)The Flash- Assuming that we are talking Wally here(although it is speculated that Bart may soon become the most powerful Flash) can probably take out most of the team by himself assuming of course that he actually would be trying. I mean we are talking about someone who once sped faster than Instantaneous travel.
IF THE FLASH IS SO FAST AND SO POWERFUL THAT HE CAN TAKE OUT THE WHOLE OF THE AVENGERS, WHY HASN'T HE SINGLE-HANDEDLY TAKEN OUT ANY OF THE SUPER-VILLAIN TEAMS THAT THE JLA HAVE FACED? JUST ASKIN...

4.)Green Lantern-His powers vary from borderline reality manipulator to Cosmic entity who has nigh infinite power! Iron Man is NOT beating him!
LIKE I SAID BEFORE, GL MIGHT HAVE THE MOST POWERFUL WEAPON IN THE UNIVERSE, BUT HE LACKS THE IMAGINATION TO USE IT TO IT'S FULL POTENTIAL. TONY STARK IS ONE OF THE SMARTEST MEN ALIVE WITH THE ULTIMATE IN TECHNOLOGICAL WEAPONRY AND SUPERHUMAN TECHNOLOGICAL POWERS. HAL MIGHT NOT HAVE FEAR AND IT WOULD BE A HELL OF A FIGHT, BUT IF HE CAN GET OWNED BY A SINGLE MANHUNTER (AND HE HAS) THEN TONY, WHO HAS BEATEN THE MANDARIN (WHO HAD 10 "POWER" RINGS) HAS A CHANCE.

5.)She Hulk is NOT gonna beat Wondy period.
SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO BEAT WONDER WOMAN, SHE HOLD HER BACK UNTIL SHE CAN GET SOME BACK-UP. BUT I WILL SAY YOU ARE RIGHT IF IT'S JUST A ONE ON ONE FIGHT.

6.)If Zattana is there its all over. She make the Scarlet Witch look like nothing! She can freaking do anything by speaking it backwards! Heck i'd say she would STOMP Dr. Strange at his best.
HAS ZATANNA EVER RE-WROTE REALITY? NOPE, BY THE WAY, THE SCARLET WITCH WOULD OWN HER DUE TO WANDA BEING JUST A LITTLE MORE "WONKY" THAN ZATANNA.




The thing I like better about the JLA is they hold back more and work in a better manner together. But when an ugly Cosmic threat shows itself they know how to lay down the law.

and whats with all these people pulling out reserve members to try and overpower the JLA. Some of these guys haven't fought alongside them in years!

If I want to save lives, I'd call the JLA, if I need someone's @$$ whooped, I'd call the Avengers.

 

[The_Mystery]

Incorrect as the JLA always look to Superman for their leadership

Yet, every story I read, he never wants to be looked up to for leadership. He always defers to Batman or J'onn. When you have the entire Avengers line-up barrelling down at you, there ain't much time to be callin' on your boys. By the time Cap has sent out the commands via telepathy (Moondragon, of course), there would be no time to seek the opinion of a teammate by Supes.

 

[roach]

If I want to save lives, I'd call the JLA, if I need NINJA's or fellow Avenger's @$$ whooped, I'd call the Avengers.

I fixed it for you

 

[roach]

Yet, every story I read, he never wants to be looked up to for leadership. He always defers to Batman or J'onn. When you have the entire Avengers line-up barrelling down at you, there ain't much time to be callin' on your boys. By the time Cap has sent out the commands via telepathy (Moondragon, of course), there would be no time to seek the opinion of a teammate by Supes.

are we forgetting J'onn is a telepath too????

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

My bad...I was worried I'd sound a little fanboyish with the Thor thing. Thor is one of my favorite heroes.

But I also disagree about the Zattana thing. I forgot to mention that I didn't mean SW as the reality manipulating mutant depowerer that she has become because I assume that to make this a fair fight she would have her pre house of M levels(and yes I know that she was retconned to being able to do this years before House). But I satnd by my later statements. She is considered a cosmic being after all.

I am really trying not to let fanboy biast get in the way here.( I'm like the Hulk except instead of infinite rage I have infinte biastness that I must constantly fight offt buit if you had proposed this match like 9 months ago I would have said that Avengers would destroy the JLA.

meh.....apples and oranges right Varient?t:

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

To Mystery's post.

1.) Because Kryptonite is crippling to Superman, where Magic isn't.
2.) Captain America is definitely not the best fighter around. Karate Kid is WAAAY better.
3.) Because the Flash isn't a cold hearted killer. You want a Flash that can take anybody down. Walter "Reverse Flash" West.
4.) Eh. Tony's super smart and powerful and all. But there is a point where pure power does overwhelm smarts. And since Tony probably wouldn't really be able to manipulate anything that the ring can do, nor really trick the bearer past illusion stuff, which the ring can point out, he'll probably go down. I love IM, he's my fave, but he's not truly the Invincible Iron Man.
5.) Hold her off? I guess I could see that. But She-Hulk isn't exactly the hardest one to take down off of the entire team. Probably the second easiest really. And she's not nearly as strong or durable as Wonder Woman, so I wouldn't say she could hold her off TOO long.
6.) Eh. I know I said Wanda could handle her. But it's a both ways thing. I didn't say one beat the other, and it's true. Zatanna, especially if speaking fast, can keep Wanda off of her, while Wanda pretty much isn't restricted to much more than chaos magic, which is rather powerful, could easily keep Zatanna from firing off anything big. So it's kind of a mix up. If we're talking the full blown out reality warping Wanda, then obviously Wanda, but I doubt we are.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

To the mystery.....



For the last TIME!!!!! Supes is not weak against magic! His is only vunerable to it.(not to mention Supes WHOOPED the thunder god of his universe)

and the thing about the Flash is the same thing that plagues all "league" comics. The characters might be weak in team comics but in his solo comic he is practically invincible! The reason why he hasn't taken down an entire team by himself is because IT.WOULD.BE.BORING!

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

To Mystery's post.

1.) Because Kryptonite is crippling to Superman, where Magic isn't.
2.) Captain America is definitely not the best fighter around. Karate Kid is WAAAY better.
3.) Because the Flash isn't a cold hearted killer. You want a Flash that can take anybody down. Walter "Reverse Flash" West.
4.) Eh. Tony's super smart and powerful and all. But there is a point where pure power does overwhelm smarts. And since Tony probably wouldn't really be able to manipulate anything that the ring can do, nor really trick the bearer past illusion stuff, which the ring can point out, he'll probably go down. I love IM, he's my fave, but he's not truly the Invincible Iron Man.
5.) Hold her off? I guess I could see that. But She-Hulk isn't exactly the hardest one to take down off of the entire team. Probably the second easiest really. And she's not nearly as strong or durable as Wonder Woman, so I wouldn't say she could hold her off TOO long.
6.) Eh. I know I said Wanda could handle her. But it's a both ways thing. I didn't say one beat the other, and it's true. Zatanna, especially if speaking fast, can keep Wanda off of her, while Wanda pretty much isn't restricted to much more than chaos magic, which is rather powerful, could easily keep Zatanna from firing off anything big. So it's kind of a mix up. If we're talking the full blown out reality warping Wanda, then obviously Wanda, but I doubt we are.

hehet:. Took the words right out of my mouth! I'd like to say that we think alike but that would literally be calling myself a genius. Which I am not....

 

[torkibe]

what were the actual words....if you think about it Reed Richards with the Ultimate Nullifier single handedly beat Galactus too

While relaying his first meeting with the Sentry, he says "the same guy who once fought Galactus to a standstill" and that's it. Nothing more, no details whatsoever, and it's never mentioned again. I've brought up the Reed Richards things many times before, considering Reed was his best friend and best man at his wedding, but no one seems to care.

People take my disbelief as Sentry hating. The fact is, I LOVE the Sentry. I love the Superman archetype. I would love it if the Sentry fought a full powered Galactus to a standstill with no special weapons and no help from anyone else. I was hoping he was going to have a knock down drag out fight with "the collective". I'm still hoping he has one with Thor - real or clone - or maybe Annihilus makes it to Earth and he has to fight him. Whatever the case, in my eyes the more powerful the Sentry the better.

 

[The_Mystery]

To Mystery's post.

1.) Because Kryptonite is crippling to Superman, where Magic isn't.
THEN EXPLAIN HOW A MAGIC CARD CAN CUT SUPES ENOUGH TO MAKE HIM BLEED, OR MAGIC LIGHTING HURTING HIM, OR CAPTAIN MARVEL'S FISTS KNOCKING HIM OUT, OR WONDER WOMAN'S "ENCHANTED" SWORD CUTTING HIM?
2.) Captain America is definitely not the best fighter around. Karate Kid is WAAAY better.
DID YOU JUST SAY "KARATE KID IS WAAAY BETTER" THAN CAPTAIN AMERICA? OH DEAR GOD...
3.) Because the Flash isn't a cold hearted killer. You want a Flash that can take anybody down. Walter "Reverse Flash" West.
I NEVER SAID KILL THEM, I JUST SAID THAT IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE FLASH CAN TAKE DOWN A WHOLE TEAM, CAUSE I REALLY NEVER SEEN HIM DO IT. BESIDES, QUICKSILVER JUST NEEDS TO HOLD HIM OFF LONG ENOUGH TO GET SOME HELP FROM SOMEONE LIKE SAY, WANDA OR VISION. AIN'T NO WAY THE FLASH CAN BEAT THE VISION.
4.) Eh. Tony's super smart and powerful and all. But there is a point where pure power does overwhelm smarts. And since Tony probably wouldn't really be able to manipulate anything that the ring can do, nor really trick the bearer past illusion stuff, which the ring can point out, he'll probably go down. I love IM, he's my fave, but he's not truly the Invincible Iron Man.
TONY HAS ENOUGH FIREPOWER TO TAKE OUT BOTH WONDER WOMAN AND GL. DON'T BELIEVE ME, GO READ JLA/AVENGERS. IF A MANHUNTER CAN GIVE HAL A RUN FOR HIS MONEY, TONY WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM TAKING OUT THE PRETTY BOY PILOT.
5.) Hold her off? I guess I could see that. But She-Hulk isn't exactly the hardest one to take down off of the entire team. Probably the second easiest really. And she's not nearly as strong or durable as Wonder Woman, so I wouldn't say she could hold her off TOO long.
ACTUALLY, I WOULD SAY THEY ARE ABOUT THE SAME DURABILITY. WONDY HAS SHE-HULK BEAT IN SKILL AND SHE CAN FLY. NOT TO MENTION THE LASSO.
6.) Eh. I know I said Wanda could handle her. But it's a both ways thing. I didn't say one beat the other, and it's true. Zatanna, especially if speaking fast, can keep Wanda off of her, while Wanda pretty much isn't restricted to much more than chaos magic, which is rather powerful, could easily keep Zatanna from firing off anything big. So it's kind of a mix up. If we're talking the full blown out reality warping Wanda, then obviously Wanda, but I doubt we are.
LET ME PUT IF THIS WAY: IF WANDA DOESN'T WANT ZATANNA TO EXIST..."BYE, BYE, ZATANNA."

Just saying.

 

[The_Mystery]

To the mystery.....



For the last TIME!!!!! Supes is not weak against magic! His is only vunerable to it.(not to mention Supes WHOOPED the thunder god of his universe)

and the thing about the Flash is the same thing that plagues all "league" comics. The characters might be weak in team comics but in his solo comic he is practically invincible! The reason why he hasn't taken down an entire team by himself is because IT.WOULD.BE.BORING!

I never said Superman was weak in the presense of Magic, but he is vulnerable to it. So if you smack him with a magic hammer, he would get hurt. Gee, I wonder who has a magic hammer...

By the way, with the Flash thing, I totally agree with you. But what I'm saying is that if the Flash has a super-speed counterpart holding him up, then it would be harder for him to help out the rest of his team. Gee, who runs fast on the Avengers...

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

wow....did someone actually compare Karate kid( a guy who can literally hold his own and even hurt Superman class characters withought ANY weaponry. And once completely cleard 80,000 tons of ice with a single strike)who is cosidered Meta to Cap who is merely enhanced?

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

I never said Superman was weak in the presense of Magic, but he is vulnerable to it. So if you smack him with a magic hammer, he would get hurt. Gee, I wonder who has a magic hammer...

By the way, with the Flash thing, I totally agree with you. But what I'm saying is that if the Flash has a super-speed counterpart holding him up, then it would be harder for him to help out the rest of his team. Gee, who runs fast on the Avengers...

Are you comparing the Flash to Quicksilver?????!!!???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!?

Kid Flash would run CIRCLES around Quicksilver in his sleep!! Normal Flash would kill Quicky with an Infinite mass punch(I'd like to see Quicky take the force equal to being hit with a white dwarf star.)

 

[The_Mystery]

Are you comparing the Flash to Quicksilver?????!!!???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!?

Kid Flash would run CIRCLES around Quicksilver in his sleep!! Normal Flash would kill Quicky with an Infinite mass punch(I'd like to see Quicky take the force equal to being hit with a white dwarf star.)

Didn't Quicksilver give Flash a hard time in JLA/Avengers? Didn't he give him a hard time in Marvel vs. DC? Like I said, he doesn't have to beat Flash, just hold him off until someone else can help. Trust me, Pietro is too hard headed to go down easily or quickly.

 

[roach]

Didn't Quicksilver give Flash a hard time in JLA/Avengers? Didn't he give him a hard time in Marvel vs. DC? Like I said, he doesn't have to beat Flash, just hold him off until someone else can help. Trust me, Pietro is too hard headed to go down easily or quickly.

not really....There is no speed force in the marvel universe and that is how QS was able to give the Flash a hard time