JLA vs avengers

[Sloth7d]

Yeah, and its a hammer(which is meant to hit) and its enchanted. Diannas sword was enchanted and meant to cut thus it made him bleed. Thors hammer being magical in origin would bypass his invulnerability.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Diana's sword was enchanted specifically to cut very well. Not that it cut well as a side effect of being magical.

 

[Sloth7d]

Thor hammer was magically enchanted to be unbreakable, unliftable by those deemed unworthy, and control the weather. Now I think be unbreakable for a hammer is the same as being sharper for a sword. Because a hammer is made for its bluntness and density to be effective. So Thors hammer should be able to bypass his invulnerability.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Unbreakable simply means it can't be broken. If I dropped it on a slab of steel, it's unbreakability won't destroy the slab of steel. If I launch it into the heart of the sun, it won't break. If Thor can generate tons of force, it would be to his advantage. But it wouldn't cancel out invulnerability, unless that was it's designated function.

 

[The_Mystery]

Unbreakable simply means it can't be broken. If I dropped it on a slab of steel, it's unbreakability won't destroy the slab of steel. If I launch it into the heart of the sun, it won't break. If Thor can generate tons of force, it would be to his advantage. But it wouldn't cancel out invulnerability, unless that was it's designated function.

It's the magic+force that together would take out Supes. Magic negates his invulnerability, hammer+strength of Thor=knocked out Kryptonian.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Magic doesn't negate his invulnerability, unless that's it's designated function.

Or a clock that stops time will kill Superman simply because I threw it at him.

 

[Sloth7d]

Well if I drop a sharp sword on a slab of steel it won't be cut neither. It all depends on the force behind it. I doubt Superman would be hurt by magic feathers, but Thors force added to the hammers enchantments would do greater damage to Supes than a regular hammer would from Thor.

 

[The_Mystery]

Magic doesn't negate his invulnerability, unless that's it's designated function.
NEVER SAYS THAT ANYWHERE IN ANY COMIC.
Or a clock that stops time will kill Superman simply because I threw it at him.

Funny thing, I remember a comic book way back where the Phantom Stranger talks to Superman about his vulnerability to magic. I wish I was home so I could find it. It was in the 90's I think. Maybe in an annual I can't remember.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Alright, lesson in the difference between physics and magic. When I return.

 

[Sloth7d]

Magic isn't real and physics is. Lesson over?

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Hardly over. More education is definitely needed here.

 

[Sloth7d]

But theres nothing to educate since one of those things is purely fictional.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Physics and magic can be separated in one fairly simple effect, the cascade effect. When something is done in physics, it translates over and over into it's environment until the energy is finally spent.

Magic, on the other hand, works MUCH differently, and can pick and choose what it effects, how, and to what extent.

Let's take Wonder Woman's sword for example. It's specific designation is to cut through everything basically. That means, no matter what it is up against, no matter how strong, how tough, how well organized, it will cut it. The atomic chains, or energy applied does not matter. It's magical effect is simply to cut through anything. That is the purpose it serves.

When a normal sword goes to cut something, it's undergoing a transfer of energy from one atom to the next atom in an entire chain, and if the energy is overwhelming, then it cuts.

Thor's hammer's designation isn't that. It's designation is to cancel magic, control storms, and be invulnerable. That means that it can dispel any magic, control any storm, and stand up to any force without breaking, no matter how overwhelming it may appear to be. Nowhere in there, would it cascade into affecting something else otherwise.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

But theres nothing to educate since one of those things is purely fictional.

On the contrary, the fiction piece means nothing. It's the fact you don't get the ramifications of the real parts that needs tampering.

 

[Varient]

Superman is vulnerable to magic items. Just like Dianna sword. Because it was enchanted it was able to bypass his vulnerability. Thors hammer is enchanted so it also can bypass his invulnerabilty.

nope.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I didn't even see that post by Sloth.

Diana's sword's magic is DESIGNATED to negate invulnerability, and cut through mass. Not because it's magic, it does it.

 

[Marvin]

where does it specifically say that magic negates his invulnerability?
(where on earth...)

the hammer is real dense, unbreakable even
give a baby a really dense object and have her hit me and it probubly wouldn't do much.

The sword is real sharp, sub atomic disection sharp even
give a baby this weapon and she'll pierce me

beyond the magic(which is not a factor here), there is no argument.

hitting superman with the dense unbreakable hammer is about as effective as hitting him with the dense unbeakable shield.

honest question
if somehow we were able to convice you that magic doesn't (simply) cut out is defense...if you could get past that

(take magic out of the equation)

would you be able to see that dianas super sharp weapons cut supermans super tuff hide due to physics.

whereas Thors hammer which is what? super unbreakable would be just a effective as thors super unbreakable fist hitting him...

would u?

 

[Varient]

Yeah, and its a hammer(which is meant to hit) and its enchanted. Diannas sword was enchanted and meant to cut thus it made him bleed. Thors hammer being magical in origin would bypass his invulnerability.

interesting.
the sword is "enchanted" to cut ANYTHING,.... the hammer is not enchanted to damage anything thru blunt trauma.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

where does it specifically say that magic negates his invulnerability?
(where on earth...)

the hammer is real dense, unbreakable even
give a baby a really dense object and have her hit me and it probubly wouldn't do much.

The sword is real sharp, sub atomic disection sharp even
give a baby this weapon and she'll pierce me

beyond the magic(which is not a factor here), there is no argument.

hitting superman with the dense unbreakable hammer is about as effective as hitting him with the dense unbeakable shield.

honest question
if somehow we were able to convice you that magic doesn't (simply) cut out is defense...if you could get past that

(take magic out of the equation)

would you be able to see that dianas super sharp weapons cut supermans super tuff hide due to physics.

whereas Thors hammer which is what? super unbreakable would be just a effective as thors super unbreakable fist hitting him...

would u?

Kind of misleading, really. Diana's sword's magic is MEANT to do what it does, and that's why it does it. Not that it just happens to be magic at the same time as subatomically sharp.

 

[Sloth7d]

interesting.
the sword is "enchanted" to cut ANYTHING,.... the hammer is not enchanted to damage anything thru blunt trauma.

Her sword was not enchanted to cut ANYTHING. And the hammer is enchanted to be unbreakable in its density which contributes to its blunt factor. Thus its enchanted to do more damage.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Not really. Only to things that would normally break something similar to it.


If I used a hammer of the same weight, denisty, and shape to put a nail into a plank of wood, it would be the same as if I used Mjolnir.

 

[Marvin]

what i took from reading waids words were that Haphestus(Sp) forged a sword that was sharp using his divine equipment...

unlike her magical lasso, the sword seems to be just a sharp object made by a master of his craft, not spells need be involved.

ie,
excaliber is a magical sword
the hammer is magical

but dianas sword can be achieved by earths science(more specifically John Irons)

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

If the design was so specific only gods could forge it, that would basically mean you NEED magic to forge the sword. I doubt Irons could do it.

Also, her sword must also be held to stay as sharp as it is through magic, as she never sharpens it. If a sword were that sharp, it would dull to just razor sharp really quick after a few uses.

 

[Sloth7d]

Not really seeing as the density of it would give more force to the blow. No different than wood vs Steel. If you smack a person with a wooden chair it wouldn't hurt that much. But smack them with a steel chair and its a different story. Because is less likely to give under the pressure it gives off a better blow than the wooden chair.

 

[Marvin]

Not really. Only to things that would normally break something similar to it.


If I used a hammer of the same weight, denisty, and shape to put a nail into a plank of wood, it would be the same as if I used Mjolnir.

at the same time one has to agree that a hammer made of steel would hurt you more than a hammer made of plastic...