Jor-El being a *****!?.

[TX85]

Sorry IF this has been a thread before!,I've been re-watching the series on dvd and with that plus remembering one big complain of the series(especially on posts here)is that Jor-El is basically a huge"*****e"in this version of the Kal-El universe.

I'll agree that he is!,But I also accept it since the point of this show is that it's a re-interpretation of the mythology&characters and to me that's pretty bold&a fresh twist after so many years.

Plus I think it fits with the show and how Kal-El/Clark is often struggling with understanding his destiny,Seems Jor-El meant for Kal to rule and Clark has had many temptations in doing it But yet cause of the Kents&friends and there guidance to basically the good side.....Eventually it'll help with Clark using his abilities for good and be the hero to the world that he has dreamed about and I think that's wonderful with how Clark will end up after his life for the last couple of years.....learning and helping how to shape his life towards the good light.

Another complain I often hear many ***** about(no offence)is about Clark being a fu*k up and I also agree!,But I think he learns more&more each season or so and it'll just be unique life experiences during his youth.

I guess my main point is that yeah I may no agree with some stuff that happened in the series But I think it'll work out great in the end!,I have had faith since the beginning and I sure have now that the last few episodes will lead to the greatness of the Mythology that will be Superman!.

 

[Webhead2006]

well he is more so just giving clark the tough love approach on things to prepare him.

 

[antsman41]

*****E, not *****...

 

[Lead Cenobite]

Jor-El being a *****e and keeping the suit from Clark is just a weak excuse to put off Clark becoming Superman for another season.

And I have to say I don't like all this destiny/prophecy talk, treating the suit like it has some special meaning even though it's not gained it's meaning yet. It's an icon to us, we know Clark becomes Superman and is the greatest hero and all that, but in the Smallville universe, it hasn't happened yet. But I guess Jor-El is God and can do anything, including seeing the future with perfect clarity and always predicting the coming of some villain or threat. And here I thought Jor-El was just a scientist.

 

[lespaul59]

Is it just me or does anybody else think the Jor-El from the S9 episode Kandor is depicted different than the Fortress Jor-El? Also I may have missed it but did they ever really explain how Clark got the message in the ship wrong?

 

[TX85]

well he is more so just giving clark the tough love approach on things to prepare him.

Perhaps!

 

[TX85]

*****E, not *****...

Oh my,I missed an E....Now that's a huge deal!.

 

[SV Fan]

I generally hate any plot on the show that revolves around Jor-El creating drama which makes Clark life a living hell on the show. Jor-El gives Lana a run for her money as a bad drama plot device.

For the most part I didn't have any issues with him Since S5 but the Lazarus Jor-el was flashbacks of jackhole Jor-El of earlier seasons

 

[Gianakin_]

Seeing that this is the single most important moment in Clark's path, where everything can go terribly wrong due to his arrogance, I get the old/new Jor-El behaviour. However I wish they had built on his arrogance/darkness more than just a couple of fleeting moments in S8 and S9.

 

[Webhead2006]

i too have hated in the early yrs where it looked like jorel was evil/jerk. But then last yr or two it started to change a bit and things seemed more good between jorel and clark. But yea from what jorel said in lazarus and what producers/writers said on twitter/interviews after premeire airing jorel is just mad at clark and is giving him the hard love approach to hammer into clark he needs to be watchful and not be manipulated by the darkness(darkseid).

 

[Brainiac 8]

Jor-El isn't evil...he is a cold calculating computer AI without any of the emotions of the real Jor-El, programmed to protect the last son of Krypton as well as the knowledge contained within him and the fortress.

Him being a *****e is just the computer being an emotionless computer.

 

[Daybreak_st]

I generally hate any plot on the show that revolves around Jor-El creating drama which makes Clark life a living hell on the show. Jor-El gives Lana a run for her money as a bad drama plot device.

For the most part I didn't have any issues with him Since S5 but the Lazarus Jor-el was flashbacks of jackhole Jor-El of earlier seasons

Dude i was thinking the same exact thing! I was going to start a thread "Jor-el and Lana Ruined Smallville", seriously.

I had the same reaction watching the premiere, i just hate this version of the Jor-el AI. Why do we even need Superman if we have the all-powerful Jor-el AI watching over the planet, he can turn back time, incapacitate clark, strip Kara of her powers, block out the sun, give humans Powers like Clark and do anything else the plot requires.

In going back and watching season one i found clark to be a much more likeable person, and i started asking myself just when did things go wrong with this show. Yes the acting was kinda bad in early seasons and the freak of the week was tiresome but the concept of Lex and Clark, the contrasts and comparisons of there upbring, the hints about clark's future were all setup nicely and only need more development. In looking at where the heroic clark, who was young, inexperienced, but still likable and heroic became teh guy who doesn't want to live up to his potential, just wants a normal life and can't fly, i think you can track it down to Season 2 season finale, the emergence of Jor-el.

Yes back then i was exicited and thought it was great idea to in retrospect that's when the series starting going off course. For the first time we started having this "destiny" stuff forced down our thoats and clark's. we also see for the first time clark really screw up big time, in destroying the ship and killing his mom's unborn baby. Which leads us to clark using red-k and becoming a crimminal for several months. Which leads to Johnathan making a deal for Superpowers to take down clark which ultimately leads to his early death b/c of his heart. This also lead to the artificial "lana and clark can't be together for multiple seasons" which was awful adn irritating. We also consistantly got more of the clark who doesn't believe in himself, only wants to be normal, doesn't want this destiny etc etc from like season 3 - season7. At least a few times through it a very heroic clark does show up but the overwhelming irritating attitude of the character, the screw up clark, seems to have made his debut after his encounter with Jor-el.

Jor-el ruined Smallville. Just think of any interpretation of the character, how often is Jor-el actively involved with clark becoming Superman? Well you have the movie, in which 18 yr old clark leaves home to figure it all out, makes the fortress and has jor-el explain it all to him, fine, simple worked well. tHen you have every other version in which it was his upbringing with the kents that creates the heroic clark that emerges as Superman. I know Smallville wanted to do something different,, but they should've stuck with the original premise of young clark kent developing into Superman, not Jor-el trying to force some artifical destiny on him that clark spends the marjority of the series fighting against. B/c of that Clark seem so much less heroic than any other character, until he became more proactive in Season 8. And now like Martha makes the costume but Jor-el takes it away, come on If i was clark i'd just call her up and say "mom i need another suit". Just really silly.

Also we have Kara showing up and basically becoming Supergirl, before clark ever become Superman? Does that strike anyone else as odd? I love Laura Vanderhoot, but the idea just reinforces how artificial they made clark's development or threw random things in the way of his progress.

Yes Jor-el in your infinite wisdom you ruined what could've been a great hero. If you would've simply left him alone he would be flying by now, but no you and your little "you must fulfill your destiny routine" stopped a character from reaching his potential. Great job.


Also if they were advanced enough to create an AI Jor-el that is very much alive not just a recording of data, but active and powerful, how could they not survive krypton's destruction? I mean really...

 

[Brainiac 8]

Because if you knew anything about Krypton, you'd know that the construction of ships and such was forbidden so the Kryptonians never would have had the means to leave Krypton.

Jor-El made his ship against the laws of his planet and the councel.

Also Brainiac basically explained earlier in the series that he basically blinded the councel to the danger Krypton was under.

Also, this version of the Jor-El AI is kind of a mashup of Jor-El and the Eradicator.

 

[Daybreak_st]

Because if you knew anything about Krypton, you'd know that the construction of ships and such was forbidden so the Kryptonians never would have had the means to leave Krypton.

Jor-El made his ship against the laws of his planet and the councel.

Also Brainiac basically explained earlier in the series that he basically blinded the councel to the danger Krypton was under.

Also, this version of the Jor-El AI is kind of a mashup of Jor-El and the Eradicator.

I realize this, just saying he managed to create something that is very much alive, not just a computer like in the films in which he can access info but a very, very powerful AI that actively affects clarks life, gives people superpowers, takes powers away ect. And yet they could've find a way to survive a planet blowing up? Yeah whatever. I know the comics very well. But with Jor-el AI is too powerful. Say what you want but this AI never appeared in the comics. yes the eradicator would've actually made more sense from the way they approached it but this is just a plot device.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Oh yea, they do use it very much like a plot device...but it's just something you have to accept. The show set the precidence for it early in the series, so in the end Jor-El has never acted out of character from the character they built him to be since the early seasons.

 

[DavidB1111]

Jor-El isn't evil...he is a cold calculating computer AI without any of the emotions of the real Jor-El, programmed to protect the last son of Krypton as well as the knowledge contained within him and the fortress.

Him being a *****e is just the computer being an emotionless computer.

This.
I'm sorry, but it's true. He's not being a dick, or a *****e, he's just a somewhat flawed AI. Or he's controlled by Darkseid magically, I don't know. Technically that would cause some problems, Darkseid is A. Not Omniscient, and B. not an idiot. If he knew about Clark, he'd get rid of him.
True, he's a master manipulator, but again, he's not an idiot.
Or Superboy Prime has been punching reality. Which is a possibility that Smallville could use.

 

[Webhead2006]

i was thinking it was darkseid too but al on twitter stated its really jorel.

 

[DavidB1111]

Ah, good for Al. That helps things out.
Yeah, it's an AI, what do you expect from it. Peace and Love and Brotherhood?
"You must destroy all humans!"
"Uh, what?"
"Ignore that."


It's just doing what it can, how it can, because it's programmed that way.
Just like Terminators are programmed to kill, but could be used for manual labor.

 

[ironman29758]

since season 5 Jor-el said that Clark was suppose to be savior of humanity and stop the darkness and alot of people described him as a hero as well as exactly like Clark.
Besides Jor-el tries to guide Clark but sometimes when Clark doesn't listen bad things happpen when Jor-el tries to help him even though it's not Superman( John Kent dies, Clark stuck in Phantom Zone, Martha biological son died so Clark had to run away, etc) only because he doesn't want Earth to suffer the same fate as Krypton
Jor-el only became more supportive when Clark not stood up to him and told him he is finally accepting his destiny and proactive hero and said he will complete his training as well as said he'll stop the Doomsday and any threat that comes Earth way beside Jor-el is a computer program not the real Jor-el and is similar to Eradicator who was a good guy in a way and we saw in episodes Post season 8 like Bloodline, Kandor, etc that Jor-el AI and Clark still have issues. I just hope the Fortress will become the fortress of Superman the movie, current cartoons, DCAU, Silver Age and early post crisis fortess combined.

 

[LightningFlash]

Well, at least Jor-El's a ***** and not a *****e.

 

[SV Fan]

In going back and watching season one i found clark to be a much more likeable person, and i started asking myself just when did things go wrong with this show. Yes the acting was kinda bad in early seasons and the freak of the week was tiresome but the concept of Lex and Clark, the contrasts and comparisons of there upbring, the hints about clark's future were all setup nicely and only need more development. In looking at where the heroic clark, who was young, inexperienced, but still likable and heroic became teh guy who doesn't want to live up to his potential, just wants a normal life and can't fly, i think you can track it down to Season 2 season finale, the emergence of Jor-el.

I remember reading once on a message board (and it rang true) that you could pinpoint when the show started to get dark and Clark's life becoming a living hell down to the introduction of Jor-El in late S2.

I know generally it seems like the whole Calling-Exile run is considered a high point of the series for many but to me that run of episodes was the first time I found major issues with the show and you can put the bulk of the blame on Jor-El making Clark's life miserable being used as a plot device to create drama.

 

[Super_Child]

He's just protecting Clark.

 

[Sam Fisher]

To quote another message board I visit, Jor-El is a *****e blessed with a awasome voice.

 

[Webhead2006]

for me i didnt mind jorel much, for me it was more of the crap with lana and the late of good solid character development for clark in seasons 5-7 that was a problem.

 

[Daybreak_st]

I remember reading once on a message board (and it rang true) that you could pinpoint when the show started to get dark and Clark's life becoming a living hell down to the introduction of Jor-El in late S2.

I know generally it seems like the whole Calling-Exile run is considered a high point of the series for many but to me that run of episodes was the first time I found major issues with the show and you can put the bulk of the blame on Jor-El making Clark's life miserable being used as a plot device to create drama.

Completely agreed. You know how in time travel movies when the future is really messed up and they have to track it down to one singular moment when something happened that set all the bad stuff in motion....that would be Jor-el AI. It created unecessary drama for the character and made go against the direction he originally was on course for.

People will assume Clark should automatically just listen to this alien voice that comes out of no where, starts threatening him, scars his chest, etc. LIke if that happened to you would you be all "sure disembodied voice of my long lost dead father whatever you say" umm....no not really. He had every reason to view Jor-el AI as a potential threat etc and actively try to defy him. Ultimately the AI has only pushed Clark away from the path he was already on when the show started. I think the show would've been better off leaving the AI thing alone and just focusing on clark's development as laid out in the early seasons. I enjoyed the Kawatche caves, clark's discovery, the mystery, all that jazz was nice. They could've still included some kryptonian elements without making the all powerful Jor-el AI force Clark's so called destiny down his throat. I honestly think that's when the character of clark started to suffer. His progress became more and more artificial than natural.

Also look at Kara. She was on one season, now she'll be back ready to become Supergirl...did she need Jor-el constantly kicking her butt and prodding her to fulfill some kind of destiny, no, she did just fine on her own. And made progress a whole lot faster than clark. Clark could've easily done the same. You know how people will naturally make certain choices but if you try to force them to do something they would've naturally done on their own they tend to fight against it/ rebel. Well that pretty much what clark did. And the jor-el AI pushed him there. If was badly written, making it practically the villain, but clark was never given a reason to trust it, we as viewers remember the movie, know it's "suppose to be good" but clark's only seen it in evil "you better obey me boy" mode. I don't blame him from running from whatever destiny something as waco as that AI had in mind for him. He didn't need it, and his character would've been allowed to grow more naturally without it's interference. Almost every bad desicison/consequence can be tracked down to Jor-el.

Other than him it was pretty much stupid plots involving Lana that derailed the show. If they just would've let her leave and stay in Paris after season 3 it would've all worked out ok. They let Pete go, lana should've left too, but no bringing her back and artificially inserting her into every plot was just so wrong....i think Jor-el AI was behind it