Justice League: self contained continuity, or epic crossover?

How should WB handle a Justice League movie's continuity?

  • Self-contained universe-- no connections to any other DC movie(s)

  • Single "DC Movie Universe"-- JL is the link between all of DC's movies


Results are only viewable after voting.
it would be interesting if we can get them to cross over but we will have to first wait and see what comes of this new development and how they decide to go about with superman. But it would be cool.
 
Bringing this thread back after the announcement of a new JL film...with its own self contained universe

I dont like the idea of self contained continuity, but I dont want them to follow Marvel's strategy to a tee either
 
I personally am in favor for a self contained universe. Honestly either you make 20 movies to explain away the team in the film and play " who in the cast is available" or you have a set cast and director. Why screw around trying to get Cavill tied to like 9 films when they can get a JL only Superman who has like 3? Hell it may allow them to think like a Kingdom Comes storyline or give them free reign. They could kill Superman or Batman without having to worry about continuity to the solo films. They could do what Dc is doing with frontier and crisis.

Marvels strategy is very high risk. Avengers is tied to success of the other films. But it also takes time. RDJ is basically going off sherlock into Avengers into Iron Man 3. But then Norton did TIH and.......well no more Norton. A self contained JL is the smartest way to do given how lousy the WB has been and launching its characters.
 
A new Justice League movie hasn't really been announced-- Zack Snyder just dropped a comment that if they do a Justice League movie, he thinks it will be separate from The Dark Knight and The Man of Steel. We don't know what will actually go down when they finally do make a Justice League movie though, because it hasn't even been announced.

While there are cons as well as the pros to doing a movie that teams up actors from multiple DC Superhero franchises, to paraphrase what one savvy poster said in the comments for the latest article: we don't need two James Bonds in the movies at the same time, so why do we need to two Batmen or two Supermen? It's not like putting Henry Cavill, Christian Bale, and Ryan Reynolds in a Justice League movie is going to ruin the separate Superman, Batman, and Green Lantern franchises.

Being a self-contained story does not mean that they have to sever any possible continuity with the solo films-- in fact, from a writing standpoint, it would be HARDER to deliberately establish that this is a different Batman and Superman from the solo films without smacking the audience over the head with trivial inconsistencies in their backstories ("Hey Batman, remember that time when you weren't trained by Ra's Al Ghul?") than it would be to just use the backstories they already established in the solo movies.

The hard part is not in the writing of such a movie, but in the money and the egos, which is what Marvel has been learning the hard way in regards to the Avengers film. Marvel owns a fair share of the problems they've had in getting the Avengers movie off the ground, but it's not like anything like Avengers has been done before, and there's going to be growing pains.

When you have a group of established talent from big movies it's not always easy to keep all of them happy, and unfortunately Marvel tends not to call people back if they're asking for a lot of money or creative influence. Terrance Howard got dropped from Iron Man 2 because Marvel decided that they accidentally paid him too much for the first film, Edward Norton got the boot from Avengers because he didn't like sucking up to Kevin Fage, and Jon Favraeu left Iron Man 3 because he was getting fed up with all cross-franchise references that Marvel was pressuring him to include.

I think what DC needs to do is come up with a good compromise: they promise not force the directors of the solo movies to include any cross-franchise references in the movies they make, as long as they don't do anything stupid like stating outright that Superman is only a comic character in a Batman movie or something like that. Meanwhile, Warner Bros. makes the Justice League movie as a self-contained story that draws on the continuity of the solo movies as its backstory, and has a plot where the League must unite against a common enemy, and at the end they go their separate ways.

The whole "Reed Richards is useless" issue doesn't have to come up if as long as Warner Bros. limits the scope of the DC movie-verse and recognizes what each hero is for. It's not like Batman is going to go to Metropolis to try and fight a giant robot or alien or whatever. Hal Jordan spends most of his mask-time in space busting interplanetary bad guys, and Superman can't exactly be in multiple places at once. Continuity becomes a problem in comic books, where you have hundreds of costumed characters that the editorial staff has no hope of keeping track of consistently, but in a movie universe where you have 5-7 heroes it's not as big of a deal. The world is a pretty darned big place, after all, and if we had superheroes in real life I doubt they'd run into each other all that often if they are all in different cities around the world.
 
If they're making a Justice League movie that's self-contained, with competing versions of Superman and Batman running around while Nolan's Superman and Batman are still ongoing or fresh in people's minds, then it shows that the WB still hasn't learned all the lessons they should have during that Justice League Mortal fiasco. Companies usually strive for corporate synergy. Audiences WANT to see the same actors they love onscreen together.

And I totally understand the concerns about quality, and how to mesh all of these characters together. But that said, there is NO reason why a Justice League movie has to be rushed out by 2013. Make Flash. Make Wonder Woman. Make a sequel to Nolan and Snyder's Superman movie. THEN make a grand JLA crossover with all of these characters together.
 
I personally think they should reuse the previous Justice League Mortal script just a few details reworked.

Superman: Joe Manganiello
Batman: Jon Hamm
Wonder Woman: Jaimie Alexander
Green Lantern: Anthony Mackie
The Flash (Barry Allen): Bradley Cooper
Aquaman: Leonardo DiCaprio
Martian Manhunter: Lance Reddick

Maxwell Lord: Tom Cruise**
Talia Al Ghul: Rachel Weisz

**Here me out. I think this could be a great comeback role for Tom Cruise if they made Max Lord a sick twisted dude...
 
I'd even be OK with Flash and Wonder Woman being spun off from JLM as "prequels" that take place before Justice League after it's come out. However, they'd have to look pretty far ahead and make sure they have directors attached to both films who are willing to work with the actors they've chosen in Justice League, which could be tricky. Whichever the case, I want to see Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and the Flash all have their own solo movies eventually, and I want Justice League to be an actual team-up movie that draws from the individual franchises.

In the comics and cartoons, it was never an issue of "over here we have Batman, and over here we have the Justice League Batman." It has always just been "Batman," whether he was beating up the mafia by himself in Gotham City or coordinating a battle against Darksied with the Justice League. Why do Warner Bros. feel that they have some kind of obligation to overcomplicate something that is not really all that complicated? Batman is one character who usually works by himself but sometimes teams up with other superheros. Why does that have to be one version of Batman that works alone and another version that works with other superheroes?
 
I don't think a self-contained JL movie is a good idea. From Snyder's comments, it seems like WB is contemplating fast-tracking a JL movie that may be released while Snyder and (possibly) Nolan are still making their respective movies, instead of waiting until these films are finished before making a JL movie, and the JL movie is not associated with any other movies. Also, it appears that they will be recasting the actors for Superman and Batman as well, although they did not say anything about Green Latern. I'm not saying that WB must do exactly with what Marvel is doing, which is rather risky and the failure could be devastating, but let's face it: Marvel is doing the ultimate crossover between their superhero movies, whereas WB is merely making a teamup movie that has no bearing on their other ongoing movies. I think I prefer Marvel's way alot more than WB's.
 
Considering there are rumors of rebooting Batman initially after the 3rd, I think they will go the Marvel way and have the Superman/Batman films or atleast actors be in the JL movie. Audiences arent going to like having to many actors playing the same character in such a short time frame and it would just hurt the film.

I think either way they need to keep Ryan as GL and Cavill as Supes. Its a must at this point. Batman is up in the air depending on what they do with the 4th film. Or if they just keep Bale.
 
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This whole thing sounds like they're jumping the gun just to catch up to Marvel's Avengers. I'd feel a lot better about this Justice League movie if they just took their time and built up to it over the course of several movies.
 
Well ya they want to ride on the Avengers wave. But they shouldve been planning this since GL went into production.
 
Well ya they want to ride on the Avengers wave. But they shouldve been planning this since GL went into production.

Judging from the Zack Snyder's comments, it doesn't seemed like WB is planning this JL movie years in advance. That's why they wanted it to be self-contain so they can just drop this movie anywhere and without any concern of contradiction with the existing movies.
 
So short sighted. You don't make movies this big without planning for sequels. So if this 2013 (I'm assuming summer 2013) date sticks, we're going to have Justice League with a new Batman and Superman, just a year after TDKR and just months after Snyder's Superman. Then we'll see sequels to Snyder's Superman and Justice League coming out in alternating years, in addition to the already-announced Batman reinvention that Nolan will produce, which may or may not be a reboot but most probably won't star Christian Bale. Meaning 2 Superman actors and 3 Batman actors in the span of a few years. This is so unnecessarily convoluted.
 
If it were up to me, I'd wait until they reboot Batman and release one Superman film before they release JLA.

That way, Cavill can play Superman and [insert reboot actor] plays Batman. They should keep the universe one, not a bunch of separate universes.

BUT, they won't do that. So, I'd love to have Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Jon Hamm as a veteran Batman/Superman in its own universe.
 
It could be a crossover, just wait till the actual Justice League movie before Clark, Bruce, and Hal start e-mailing each other YouTube videos about sneezing kittens.
 
So short sighted. You don't make movies this big without planning for sequels. So if this 2013 (I'm assuming summer 2013) date sticks, we're going to have Justice League with a new Batman and Superman, just a year after TDKR and just months after Snyder's Superman. Then we'll see sequels to Snyder's Superman and Justice League coming out in alternating years, in addition to the already-announced Batman reinvention that Nolan will produce, which may or may not be a reboot but most probably won't star Christian Bale. Meaning 2 Superman actors and 3 Batman actors in the span of a few years. This is so unnecessarily convoluted.

Warner Bros. clearly isn't thinking too hard with this one.

3 Batmen:

Nolanverse Batman
Justice League Batman
Post-Nolan Batman

3 Supermen

Superman Returns
Man of Steel
Justice League

Talk about diluting your brands. Do we really want 2 new Superman actors within a year of each other? Honestly Warner Bros., WHY? :huh:
 
I think that fans need to keep their minds open to a separate DC Universe that has different Batman and Superman (not the ones that are in the Solo movies.)

Superman as the only Superhero in his own movie is logical so is Batman where there are no other Super powered beings.

Justice League is a different take altogether.
 
By that logic, can the members of the Justice League even be considered the same characters that exist in their solo stories? In the comics and cartoons, it's not like Batman stops being Batman or Superman stops being Superman just because the exist in the same world. What exactly would shatter the fabric of DC's movies if there is one movie where where their characters team up? It's not like they can't write a Superman movie without referencing Batman just because they made a movie where Superman and Batman teamed up and it was within the same continuity. This line of thinking is certainly more shallow than the idea that they shouldn't make a separate Justice League universe that co-exists with 4 or 5 other movie universes.
 
Warner Bros. clearly isn't thinking too hard with this one.

3 Batmen:

Nolanverse Batman
Justice League Batman
Post-Nolan Batman

3 Supermen

Superman Returns
Man of Steel
Justice League

Talk about diluting your brands. Do we really want 2 new Superman actors within a year of each other? Honestly Warner Bros., WHY? :huh:

I thought WB's plan was for the Post-Nolan reboot franchise Batman to be the Justice League Batman? Imo, IF Nolan wants to continue his franchise, particularly if they continue emphasizing the Dark Knight title, I dont see any reason that it should be either supplanted by or preclude a version of Batman that fits the classic DCU/DCAU vision of the character for a united DC movie universe. I think most of the general audience is either savy enough to get it or not invested enough to notice or give a damn. It seems to be OCD-riddled fanboys that seem to do the majority of the *****ing and moaning about such things. More than two versions at a time would probably be overkill though.

As for Man of Steel, I thought Nolan's and Snyder's line was always that this was supposed to be a self-contained one-off story? If its really supposed to be the start of a franchise then it should be part of the JLA/united DCMU and conform to it, imo, Superman SHOULD be part of and in the forefront of a robust, larger than life universe. To me, Superman Returns shouldnt really figure into the equation; I think most people are happy to ignore that piece of meh.

I dont see it as an either or thing, I think there should be a carefully crafted, united DCMU with their still being room for certain projects that fall outside the lines when it makes sense.
 
This wouldn't even be an issue if DC actually kept the character separate in the comics in the first place.
 
Well, it's an issue because most fans are passionate about the JL property. There will be those against their interrelations, but from what I've seen most just want it done well, at the right time. The backlash has always been directed at mishandling or demeaning the active production of the individual films. Not the prospects of the film itself.
 
I've never cared for a JL film to be perfectly honest, or any team up film in general. The individual characters are far more interesting to me and far to big to ever do properly in the space of two hours. In a team up film with 7 characters (not including supporting cast), 3 of them amongst the most famous comic characters ever created, and 2 others that are pretty familiar to the masses, someone is gonna get short changed. The whole concept of JL and cross pollinating of characters was a bad idea to begin with IMO.
 
I hated the idea of a rushed JL movie and I hate it even more now in 2011. Like everyone else has point out the idea of them having so many actors playing those iconic characters in such a short amount of time with no build just waters down your product. Damn I was hoping WB was smarter then this. I guess there just lucky Nolan saved Batman for them, who knows where Batman would be now if WB gave the project to some director who didn't care or have the passion to make a good movie?
 
I get the feeling Robinov is simply having Avengers envy.
 
I've never cared for a JL film to be perfectly honest, or any team up film in general. The individual characters are far more interesting to me and far to big to ever do properly in the space of two hours. In a team up film with 7 characters (not including supporting cast), 3 of them amongst the most famous comic characters ever created, and 2 others that are pretty familiar to the masses, someone is gonna get short changed. The whole concept of JL and cross pollinating of characters was a bad idea to begin with IMO.
That's not really judging it based on its on terms, however. The entire purpose of an ensemble is that it's a collective effort and focus. Referring to it as "short-changed" is disingenuous to the concept. Each member will serve their purpose according to the specific story. Viewing it as "so-and-so" deserves X amount of screentime and development is bringing baggage over from a separate entity.

Fans are fine with "sharing", because they know they can pick up the respective titles if they want a particular focus on a character. The attraction of JL are the interactions between these icons who we're very intimately attached to. We don't need to devote as much time to them because we've done that. The trick is juggling it in such a way that JL can function as its own franchise, but leaving enough of a gap so that the individual properties also get to give their fans what they want.

Again, I'd say the underlying issue with JL is more with it "getting in the way".
 
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