Kanye finally snapped!

[charl_huntress]

Plenty of people have said things that were almost as offensive at me but I ignored them. That doesn't mean I didn't feel something when they used that language but I also did not give them the knowledge it affected me.

I wouldn't dream of telling anyone how to "feel".

There's no such thing as a thought crime.

While I understand the sentiment violence doesn't solve anything, you cannot possible tell someone who is black how they should feel when someone calls them a "******". This is what you are doing, though I'm sure you think what you are saying is somehow "advice" and not instruction.

Nah I'll admit at some point I was acting like that. I'm white but was arguing that its extremely racist and people shouldn't be surprised Kanye wanted and did kick his ass. But then I had other white people telling me it was just a word and it shouldnt resort to violence. So idk how to feel.

lol...I like your idea of "unlawful justice"...lol.

 

[Teelie]

No, I clearly said you can feel something and not express it (especially violently). It's two different things. You can interpet it as instruction even though it's not.

 

[charl_huntress]

Let me just ask you this...I'm not trying to be offensive, but what is your point in saying all this?

 

[regwec]

While I understand the sentiment violence doesn't solve anything, you cannot possible tell someone who is black how they should feel when someone calls them a "******".

This is, quite clearly, not what I have done, nor what I am doing.

This is what you are doing, though I'm sure you think what you are saying is somehow "advice" and not instruction.

No it isn't.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I think what everyone needs to remember here, especially the men, is that what Kanye is described as doing in this situation is highly, highly illegal. Provacation by racism won't mean **** in front of a judge, espeically if you are not rich and famous.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Let me just ask you this...I'm not trying to be offensive, but what is your point in saying all this?

There are/were posters arguing that the kid "got what he deserved", and Kanye should walk away clean.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

I think what everyone needs to remember here, especially the men, is that what Kanye is described as doing in this situation is highly, highly illegal. Provacation by racism won't mean **** in front of a judge, espeically if you are not rich and famous.

That's kind of the point I've been making. You can feel however you want by whatever words someone says to you, you just can't physically attack them because they said some words to you that you didn't like. No matter how much you didn't like the word.

Well, you can attack someone for saying words to you, but that's really childish and also called assault, and there are consequences for those actions.

 

[charl_huntress]

I don't see anyone really concerned with illegality here. There are people telling other people they shouldn't be affected by the word "******". I don't know what this sounds like to anyone else, but it sounds like instruction to me.

There are/were posters arguing that the kid "got what he deserved", and Kanye should walk away clean.

Here's the thing though...the kid did get what he deserved. Was it the right way to behave? Was it legal? No, but the kid did get what he deserved. You don't get free passes for calling people names like that. There will be consequences. Though to be fair, Kanye should pay too because you don't just get to beat people's ass...at least regular people don't get to do that.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I don't see anyone really concerned with illegality here. There are people telling other people they shouldn't be affected by the word "******". I don't know what this sounds like to anyone else, but it sounds like instruction to me.

Nobody said that. Point out where anyone said that.

Actually, Teelie explained this to you already.

 

[Teelie]

Let me just ask you this...I'm not trying to be offensive, but what is your point in saying all this?

My point and many others is that reacting violently to speech, even hate speech, rarely results in a positive outcome.

It isn't to say not respond to them. That comes down to the persons involved and the circumstances, but physically reacting is only giving them more fuel to fight back with.

A hypothethical I'm sure that's happened more than once.

Someone makes a racist comment.
The person who it was directed at responds by beating them up.
The racist in turn feels even more anger, comes back with friends or a weapon and escalates it to beating up or even killing the person they made the slur at or to someone of that ethnicity.
This results in their family, friends and their ethnicity retaliating back, causing them to attack the nearest person of the same ethnicity as the racist.
This leads to all the usual hatred, discrimination and distrust that keeps going on now.

It probably won't happen in this case but trying to justify "you called me X so I'm going to beat you up" isn't going to suddenly make the racist or sexist decide to be a better person. It isn't going to make them rethink their attitude, change their opinion of you or even stop them from doing it again to someone else. In all likelyhood if they did it again they'd probably add a few hits of their own to it.

That is what I'm saying when I posted about not giving them a response. You think of it as "instructing" you to not feel anything. Feeling something is not the same as reacting to it. If you want to react to someone like that, it's better to do it in a way that tries to defuse their anger and hatred toward you. Beating someone up is never, ever going to make someone like you or think better of you.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

I don't see anyone really concerned with illegality here. There are people telling other people they shouldn't be affected by the word "******". I don't know what this sounds like to anyone else, but it sounds like instruction to me.

Here's the thing though...the kid did get what he deserved. Was it the right way to behave? Was it legal? No, but the kid did get what he deserved. You don't get free passes for calling people names like that. There will be consequences. Though to be fair, Kanye should pay too because you don't just get to beat people's ass...at least regular people don't get to do that.

Translation:

Punching benefits race relations. And the world in general.

You really want to look me in the eyes (metaphorically), and claim that's the philosophy of an evolved species?

 

[Hal_Jordan]

I don't see anyone really concerned with illegality here. There are people telling other people they shouldn't be affected by the word "******". I don't know what this sounds like to anyone else, but it sounds like instruction to me.

Oh, I was saying you shouldn't be offended to the point of violence by any word, but feel free to do so and let words have as much power over you as you want them to.

 

[Pink Ranger]

What I find troubling is there appears to be talk of some kind of abstract code that seems to morally, though not legally, justify the actions taken.

What happened to Kimye here could very well happen to any of us. I will give you guys a 100% real example from my life.

My mother and I are of Chinese descent. She is 67 years old. She was walking down the street by herself one day, and two people followed her for a couple of blocks, hurling a bunch of racist language at her. She told me about it the next day.

Am I allowed to drive around that neighbourhood the next day, looking for those two? When I find them, can I jump out of my car and beat the **** out of them?

By the way, it was a couple, one man and one woman. Does that make a difference? Can I beat the **** out of one, but not the other? Can I beat the **** out of both of them?

In addition, the couple was black. Does that make a difference?

Tell me what this abstract code tells you about the proper course of action.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

N**** please

But you wouldn't say that to a black person's face.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[DarkSentinel]

But you wouldn't say that to a black person's face.

Thanks for proving my point.

Actually I have. It's not that big a deal where I work. It all depends on the context.

 

[NickNitro]

Translation:

Punching benefits race relations. And the world in general.

You really want to look me in the eyes (metaphorically), and claim that's the philosophy of an evolved species?

The difference between your morality and the real world is a lot farther apart than I think you realize. Whether you'd like to admit it or not.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

The difference between your morality and the real world is a lot farther apart than I think you realize. Whether you'd like to admit it or not.

Because of people like you and MessiahDecoy who refuse to listen to reason.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Your arguments are based in emotion, Nick. You have yet to address a single one of my points. All you have ever had are sweeping statements and selective blindness.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

What I find troubling is there appears to be talk of some kind of abstract code that seems to morally, though not legally, justify the actions taken.

What happened to Kimye here could very well happen to any of us. I will give you guys a 100% real example from my life.

My mother and I are of Chinese descent. She is 67 years old. She was walking down the street by herself one day, and two people followed her for a couple of blocks, hurling a bunch of racist language at her. She told me about it the next day.

Am I allowed to drive around that neighbourhood the next day, looking for those two? When I find them, can I jump out of my car and beat the **** out of them?

By the way, it was a couple, one man and one woman. Does that make a difference? Can I beat the **** out of one, but not the other? Can I beat the **** out of both of them?

In addition, the couple was black. Does that make a difference?

Tell me what this abstract code tells you about the proper course of action.

Good questions. I asked earlier and no one responded, but I was also wondering what do you do when the person who "needs to be taught a lesson" is bigger than you/better fighter, what if it's a group of people?

Do you only attack the person if they are smaller and you're sure you can get away with kicking their a$$?

How does that work when defending one's honor? Or giving what is deserved?

 

[Feenix]

What people are failing to realize here is that it's not just racial slurs hurled at black people, it's all offensive slurs. If we all devolved like Kanye did and started beating up someone because of something they said, our society would fall apart.

And, like Pink Ranger pointed out, where do you draw the line for whom to beat up and for how long? The best course of action is to let it go. Why? Because no matter how badly you beat up the other person, you will lose in the end. They will sue you or have you arrested and your life will be in shambles.

And all over something stupid someone said at one time. We all get offended over different things. You can't say that the offence you took over something is more justified than the offence someone else took over something else. I'm German and people have called me a Nazi since the 4th grade. Is it highly offensive? Yes. Does it make me want to beat someone's face in? Yes. Do I? No.

For some people to say that being called the N-word is more offensive than anything else is just ridiculous.

 

[Teelie]

Good questions. I asked earlier and no one responded, but I was also wondering what do you do when the person who "needs to be taught a lesson" is bigger than you/better fighter, what if it's a group of people?

Do you only attack the person if they are smaller and you're sure you can get away with kicking their a$$?

How does that work when defending one's honor?

I've asked a similar thing in a hypothetical waaaaay back on the first page and got mostly shifty answers that didn't address it (and even that was after I asked why no one was responding). Pink Ranger's being an actual occurence should get a response.

What is the limitation of responding to hate speech with physical violence?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Translation:

Punching benefits race relations. And the world in general.

You really want to look me in the eyes (metaphorically), and claim that's the philosophy of an evolved species?

When our species evolves beyond ugly insults face-to-face then we can evolve beyond butt whoopings.

 

[NickNitro]

Because of people like you and MessiahDecoy who refuse to listen to reason.

Because of me this is happening? Am I the one on the news? No, its the general population. Its your neighbor, your boyfriend, your girlfriend, your wife, your son. The KKK is still around, the Westboro Baptist Church is around, gangs are still around killing one another simply because they wear different colors. Don't act like the only reason stuff like this is going on is because I don't share the same sympathy for a bigot as you do. I'm not trying to get into an argument, I'm just trying to tell you that there is far more hate in the world than a couple of people debating on a SHH forum. And I am hardly the reason stuff like this happens.

Your arguments are based in emotion, Nick. You have yet to address a single one of my points. All you have ever had are sweeping statements and selective blindness.

What are my sweeping statements? That I feel he had the right to take physical action towards someone? I'm sorry I look soo barbaric and dim witted to you. Clearly because I support this act of violence means I don't sit on a higher plane of thinking and morality as you do. What kind of selective blindness is this? Is it the same one that you share? You believe that we should evolve as a species that resorts to little or no violence. Do you just mean physical? Because I'm pretty sure racial bigotry is one of this worlds greatest acts of violence.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Actually I have. It's not that big a deal where I work. It all depends on the context.

Even toward black strangers?

 

[Asgard]

Nobody said that. Point out where anyone said that.

It IS nothing, or should be nothing to you, just like the strangers they are. Until you give it the power they were looking for.

Oh, I was saying you shouldn't be offended to the point of violence by any word, but feel free to do so and let words have as much power over you as you want them to.

You sure about that? Your post above was in response to my reply about minorites being offended by racial slurs and your response is that they shouldnt be offended period because theyre only words.