Superman Returns Kevin Smith Rips On Superman Returns

Yes, cuz Kevin Smith's version was just SOOOOOO much better. Seriously, he can go f-k himself. And anyone who thinks Superman raped Lois, or makes any insinuation of the like, is just an idiot. Also, comparing Smith's writing and talent to Singer and Co. isn't even fair...this is a perfect example of a movie going far over someone's head. This went over Smith's head, it's too sophisticated for his rudimentary, fart-jokes type humor and sentimentality.

Go figure.
 
Oh, they changed the name of project, that naturally makes it a whole different thing. One is a new Superman movie and the other was... a... new... Sup- ok, you got it. It sounds so. And the fact that he alternately talks good things and then bad things about Batman 89 depending if he's talking about the movie or Tim Burton makes me thing it is so.
I read his script, which even he said he was forced to add in a lot of stuff from Peters. Some of it was good, and you can tell what was his stuff and what wasn't. The TV interview with Lex and Lois was his and it was pure Lois. A lot of things in it where good, and a lot of things he was forced to write until even he said it was crap.

As far as I know, he had good things to say about Singer and high hopes when Singer got hired and his SR got greenlit. He never said anything about the movie until after it was released and he saw it>translation, he saw it and he didn't like it or the concepts, which he clearly and plainly states in the link.
 
Yes, cuz Kevin Smith's version was just SOOOOOO much better. Seriously, he can go f-k himself. And anyone who thinks Superman raped Lois, or makes any insinuation of the like, is just an idiot. Also, comparing Smith's writing and talent to Singer and Co. isn't even fair...this is a perfect example of a movie going far over someone's head. This went over Smith's head, it's too sophisticated for his rudimentary, fart-jokes type humor and sentimentality.

Go figure.

Even if Smith told Peters to go f**k himself I still think the script would've been a fankwank with little substance behind it and cute little nods to the comics. Sure there would've been explosions but ultimately it would've been soulless.
 
You know, the haters make me laugh. People like Buggs (though i'm singling him out there are others) criticise people on this thread for saying KS is ******ed for his opinion and he is entitled to it.

But when Sam Raimi was asked his opinion on several CB movies, and he singled out SR for praise, saying he liked it, the haters were saying things like "Oh he's just being polite because he has to." or "has he lost his mind!" or "he must be high!" Ironic isnt it.

And Smith's movies are mildly funny and are simply a succession fart, dick and gay jokes. He doesnt have half the talent of Singer, or Raimi for that matter IMO.
 
You know, the haters make me laugh. People like Buggs (though i'm singling him out there are others) criticise people on this thread for saying KS is ******ed for his opinion and he is entitled to it.

But when Sam Raimi was asked his opinion on several CB movies, and he singled out SR for praise, saying he liked it, the haters were saying things like "Oh he's just being polite because he has to." or "has he lost his mind!" or "he must be high!" Ironic isnt it.

And Smith's movies are mildly funny and are simply a succession fart, dick and gay jokes. He doesnt have half the talent of Singer, or Raimi for that matter IMO.

Thank you. Hypocrisy's a *****. :yay:

Now can we now move onto threads that (easily) possess more intelligence than all of Kevin Smith's movies put together?
 
Thank you. Hypocrisy's a *****. :yay:

Now can we now move onto threads that (easily) possess more intelligence than all of Kevin Smith's movies put together?
.

Haters criticized Sam Raimi while Defenders yelled at Haters for doing so!

Defenders criticized Kevin Smith while Haters yelled at Defenders for doing so!

Hooray for hypocrisy! Maybe now we can all just admit that we're all a bunch of ass holes (with the one exception of Showtime) and move on with our lives. :yay:
 
As far as the sex thing goes, Singer was asked about that an in interview b/c of the amnesia kiss in Superman II. Singer said he kind of ignored that part and that in his film (SR) Lois remembers having sex with Superman but not that he is Clark Kent. So i guess in effect the amnesia effected her memory of him being clark not of them having sex.
 
As far as the sex thing goes, Singer was asked about that an in interview b/c of the amnesia kiss in Superman II. Singer said he kind of ignored that part and that in his film (SR) Lois remembers having sex with Superman but not that he is Clark Kent. So i guess in effect the amnesia effected her memory of him being clark not of them having sex.

Thats the problem with all this vague history crap. Singer should've either used an established history (The Donner films, Smallville, hell Lois and Clark, whatever) or simply created his own. To pick a choose from various mediums and offer no explanation as to what is canonical and what is not is simply lazy film making.
 
As far as the sex thing goes, Singer was asked about that an in interview b/c of the amnesia kiss in Superman II. Singer said he kind of ignored that part and that in his film (SR) Lois remembers having sex with Superman but not that he is Clark Kent. So i guess in effect the amnesia effected her memory of him being clark not of them having sex.

Actually in the interview i think he said he ignored the amnesia kiss and them having sex in the fortress altogether. He just had it that they had a previous relationship were she didnt know he was Clark as well.
 
Actually in the interview i think he said he ignored the amnesia kiss and them having sex in the fortress altogether. He just had it that they had a previous relationship were she didnt know he was Clark as well.

If you go by that, it seems inconsistent with the character. Superman would never use his position as Superman to take advantage of Lois like that. It is why is reluctant to be involved with her as Superman. He wants her to love Clark, the man, not the suit he wears. Therefore his intercourse with Lois as Superman without her being aware of his identity contradicts every back story of Superman we know, and being as Singer did not lay down any other characterization or backstory, we only have our past indiciations of the character to go on. See what I mean? Vague history raises too many questions and is lazy.
 
Man, ...



That's right.



SMITH: "No, it really comes down to I'm really not talented enough to pull off a movie like that, [GREEN HORNET]" says 'Clerks II' director Kevin Smith. "It was between that and 'Clerks II' and I drove toward 'Clerks II' in such a big, bad way and almost had to fight Harvey Weinstein to do 'Clerks II' as opposed to a 'Green Hornet' movie, cuz he's like, 'it's time for you to grow and stretch as a filmmaker' and I'm like, 'doesn't anybody get it after twelve years? I'm not that talented. This is what I do [well].' "


http://www.comics2film.com/ProjectFrame.php?f_id=495


That's pretty much what he's been saying at his Q & A's for a long time too. I doubt he'll ever want to do a big budget movie but you know someone in Hollywood would let him despite his comments.
 
That's pretty much what he's been saying at his Q & A's for a long time too. I doubt he'll ever want to do a big budget movie but you know someone in Hollywood would let him despite his comments.

Let him despite what he thinks. That's pretty much forcing him to.

Being something that he admits not being talented enough to do himself, he should be more humble when refering to people who makes that kind of movies. By this I'm refering to batman more than SR.
 
You know, the haters make me laugh. People like Buggs (though i'm singling him out there are others) criticise people on this thread for saying KS is ******ed for his opinion and he is entitled to it.

But when Sam Raimi was asked his opinion on several CB movies, and he singled out SR for praise, saying he liked it, the haters were saying things like "Oh he's just being polite because he has to." or "has he lost his mind!" or "he must be high!" Ironic isnt it.

And Smith's movies are mildly funny and are simply a succession fart, dick and gay jokes. He doesnt have half the talent of Singer, or Raimi for that matter IMO.
Uhhh did I eer post anything anywhere here about Sam Raimi liking SR. I didn't even know that happened. And if I did, it would not be something I would do because I respect others opinions, even if they don't agree with mines.
 
Look, who haven't rip SR at one point or another; but, who really listens to Kevin Smith.
 
Thats the problem with all this vague history crap. Singer should've either used an established history (The Donner films, Smallville, hell Lois and Clark, whatever) or simply created his own. To pick a choose from various mediums and offer no explanation as to what is canonical and what is not is simply lazy film making.

The whole "vague history" designation was a debacle for all invovled. At different points Singer refered to Returns as:

1) Superman 3
2) Sequel to STM
3) Sequel to STM & Superman 2

First it used elements of Superman 2, and then it didn't...the writers were confused, WB was confused, and in turn some viewers were confused. There should have been a company line to follow in interviews that wasn't laid out.
 
The whole "vague history" designation was a debacle for all invovled. At different points Singer refered to Returns as:

1) Superman 3
2) Sequel to STM
3) Sequel to STM & Superman 2

First it used elements of Superman 2, and then it didn't...the writers were confused, WB was confused, and in turn some viewers were confused. There should have been a company line to follow in interviews that wasn't laid out.


I don't even think Singer knows. I think it was just an easy out for him.
 
The whole "vague history" designation was a debacle for all invovled. At different points Singer refered to Returns as:

1) Superman 3
2) Sequel to STM
3) Sequel to STM & Superman 2

First it used elements of Superman 2, and then it didn't...the writers were confused, WB was confused, and in turn some viewers were confused. There should have been a company line to follow in interviews that wasn't laid out.

Yup. It didn't bode well for the general audience when the director and writers couldn't agree and were confused at different times about where SR stood. I remember in one interview Singer responded to a question saying that we can basically look at SR as Superman 3. So then the same reporter went to Dougherty and Harris and mentioned what Singer said and the writers quickly responded with no! SR should not be looked at that way! LOL The 3 in charge of a 200 mill dollar movie couldn't even agree on where SR stood?! :wow: It's definitely a head scratcher.
 
It's funny how everyone dismisses Smith's opinion because of his movies, but yet ignores the outstanding work he's done as a comic writer on Daredevil and Green Arrow, which shows he has a real insight into who these characters really are. Something basic that Singer failed to grasp.
 
It's funny how everyone dismisses Smith's opinion because of his movies, but yet ignores the outstanding work he's done as a comic writer on Daredevil and Green Arrow, which shows he has a real insight into who these characters really are. Something basic that Singer failed to grasp.


Writing a comic and writing and directing a movie are TWO TOTALLY different mediums and venues. This is like saying that a good video game writer who writes the script/concept of a video game would make a good movie if his games are good. It just doesn't translate. It's a false analogy, and not even because one is a comic book writer in this case and the other a movie director.

No one's ignoring Smith's work. Everyone's placing Smith's comic work where it belongs -- in the comic books. It has no bearing on his film capabilities. Crafting characters on the page and sustaining interests in them for a ten minute comic book read is a totally different creature than a movie which has 2-hours to isninuate an entire history while sustaining an mass audience (comics only have to cater to a particular demographic) and maintain interest all the way through. So can you tell me where exactly Smith's comic book "depth" has any relation to Singer's film "depth?"

What we can judge is Smith's history on movies that he's been rejected or fired from. He gets bitter. He gets petty. He disowns what's bad about what he did and throws it to others while leaving himself blamless. If you are a writer and you put your name on the by-line of a script or what not, you OWN IT. Regardless. At any moment, he could've left that project and not written ****...he went along against his insticts apparently, against what he knew the fans wanted...this would make him a sell out, at the very least. Most accurately, he's a coward for not owning up to what he wrote and put his name to. He scapegoats. I have no respect for this man.

We've seen of his movie skills, they've been sub-par and simply mediocre. I mean, are we really coming down to comparing Bryan Singer to Kevin Smith? Most of Hollywood's most respected would be laughing at us right now if they saw it.
 
The whole "vague history" designation was a debacle for all invovled. At different points Singer refered to Returns as:

1) Superman 3
2) Sequel to STM
3) Sequel to STM & Superman 2

First it used elements of Superman 2, and then it didn't...the writers were confused, WB was confused, and in turn some viewers were confused. There should have been a company line to follow in interviews that wasn't laid out.

I wonder if flash backs with the new actors might have helped.
Or even if it were just a voice over (as hes floating about somewhere reminiscing), hearing his mother (or in Donners cut, Jor_El) talking about how he will be "mortal" if he wants to be with Lois. hmm. Maybe that would make it even more weird.

Personally I was confused at the end. Is he going to ;pay child support, does she know hes Clark, why are they avoiding the subject ?
Not clear enough for me. Well, certainly "I'm always around" was not good enough closure for me. The whole thing felt weird.

Maybe it should have ended at the White House with the President talking with Supes on the roof and saying
PRES: "Take this guy, double homicide, has a taste for the theatrics like you, leaves a calling card".
(shows supe a piece of Doomsdays bone"
Superman: "I'll look into it"
PRES: " I never thanked you.."
Superman: "You'll never have to"
(jumps off roof)

END!

LOL!
 
Writing a comic and writing and directing a movie are TWO TOTALLY different mediums and venues. This is like saying that a good video game writer who writes the script/concept of a video game would make a good movie if his games are good. It just doesn't translate. It's a false analogy, and not even because one is a comic book writer in this case and the other a movie director.

No one's ignoring Smith's work. Everyone's placing Smith's comic work where it belongs -- in the comic books. It has no bearing on his film capabilities. Crafting characters on the page and sustaining interests in them for a ten minute comic book read is a totally different creature than a movie which has 2-hours to isninuate an entire history while sustaining an mass audience (comics only have to cater to a particular demographic) and maintain interest all the way through. So can you tell me where exactly Smith's comic book "depth" has any relation to Singer's film "depth?"

What we can judge is Smith's history on movies that he's been rejected or fired from. He gets bitter. He gets petty. He disowns what's bad about what he did and throws it to others while leaving himself blamless. If you are a writer and you put your name on the by-line of a script or what not, you OWN IT. Regardless. At any moment, he could've left that project and not written ****...he went along against his insticts apparently, against what he knew the fans wanted...this would make him a sell out, at the very least. Most accurately, he's a coward for not owning up to what he wrote and put his name to. He scapegoats. I have no respect for this man.

We've seen of his movie skills, they've been sub-par and simply mediocre. I mean, are we really coming down to comparing Bryan Singer to Kevin Smith? Most of Hollywood's most respected would be laughing at us right now if they saw it.

The difference is, Smith makes movies. He makes them well. You claim they are mediocre, and yet since you Singer defenders love to use reviews to defend SR...here are some of Smith's reviews:

Clerks - 86 % fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, 93 % user reviews.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/clerks/


Chasing Amy - 93 % fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, 91 % user reviews.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/chasing_amy/


Dogma - 68 % fresh on Rotten Tomatoes (roughly the same as Superman Returns, give or take a few points), 82 % user reviews (Better than Superman Returns)
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/dogma/


Clerks 2 - 63 % fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, 88 % user review
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/clerks_2/


Mallrats - Evenly split on Rotten Tomatoes, however very few critics reviewed it and it has an 88 % user review. Same for Jay and Silent Bob Strikes Back.


So that is 2 Smith movies with bad reviews, and considering it is a known fact that the studio HEAVILY interfered with Mallrats and Jay and Silent Bob is a big ass inside joke that you really will either get or not get, it isn't really fair to go by critic reviews. Users seem to love them however.

To call Smith mediocre is frankly, ridiculous. While his movies aren't as heavily budgeted or dramatic as Singer's, that simply isn't the kind of director he is. He is a COMEDIC director, and if you look past the fart and dick jokes (which is a thin cover) you will find deep plots and themes in ALL of Smith's movies (save Jay and Silent Bob and Mallrats). To look down on Smith because he does low budget comedies is ridiculous. That is like saying Singer is better than David Zucker or Mel Brooks. Besides, ANYONE will tell you comedy is much more difficult than drama.

As for your scapegoating comments, it is a known fact that Peters rewrote most of Smith's script. Smith's real script is still unseen by the public, however as someone already pointed out if you read the Smith/Peters script you can find the scenes that are geniunely Smith's and they are good.

Thirdly, to call Smith bitter is an outrageous accusation that you can NOT back up. Smith has always spoke fondly of his time on Superman, citing that he got paid well and it was a great learning and networking experience for him. The only person he ever had anything bad to say about was Peters. Here is a shocking notion...maybe Smith just...gaaasp, geniunely didn't like the movie.
 

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