Kinect and it's effects on the WORLD.

[Timstuff]

Trailer for new Rare game using Kinect!

 

[DorkyFresh]

Trailer for new Rare game using Kinect!

is that an official commercial???

 

[DorkyFresh]

edit: double post

 

[Fading]

Went ahead and deleted this post since it really didn't add anything to the discussion.

 

[Timstuff]

is that an official commercial???

With words like "Ice Mario has declined your invite" and "fail" flashing across the screen during gameplay, as well as referring to the product as "kin'ell" (f**kin' hell) rather than "Kinect" and putting the phrase "Jump Out" at the end, what do you thin.

 

[Addendum]

Besides, one of the comments said "games real, trailer's a joke".

If only Kinect was nothing more than a joke.

 

[Fading]

This isn't a big deal, as it's one of the things I was worried wouldn't work well anyway, but apparently Kinect only supports 2 players at once. Which is probably a good thing as I was envisioning ppl knocking eachother out with 4 grown adults flailing their arms around in an enclosed space. I mean it's not like I was ever planning on having more than 2 playing at once on Move when I get it either. However I guess it could be bad to ppl expecting to have 4 ppl playing party games at once. Apparently it can scan as more than 2 ppl, but due to processing power it only allows 2 ppl to be tracked during gameplay. Only posting this in case it affects anyone here. Here's a few comments I read elsewhere that talk a bit about it.

This link also explains how the tech works for anyone interested.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/19/kinect-how-it-works-from-the-company-behind-the-tech

PrimeSense reps also told me that the camera can "see" any number of people on the screen -- you can fit as many people in that camera as possible, and the computer will see all of them and can even recognize them as human shapes. But it can only run calculations on two people at a time, just because the processing power required to track all of the body's locations and movements is so great. During our testing with the device, a person moving in front of the camera was able to "steal focus," but the computer can also be told through gestures to keep focus on a certain person.

Also a somewhat confirmation coming from a game coming out that supports 4 players on Wii and Move, but only 2 on Kinect.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...ils-of-zumba-fitness-video-game-96337804.html

Players can also grow that party at home with up to four players on Wii? and PlayStation Move, and up to two players on Kinect *for Xbox 360.

The only problem I have with this is Microsoft showing trailers, and Dance Party at E3 that made it look like it could support 4 players. This could lead to confusion. I mean 4 players playing at once is a rare thing amongst consoles in most homes I'd imagine, but I hope Microsoft puts a sticker or something that says, "Supports up to 2 players" on the box just in case some huge family buys it specifically for that purpose.


Edit - This does bring up an interesting thought tho. If only 2 players are supported, then WTF was going on in that embarrassing video of the husband and wife and the 2 kids a few pages back. If only 2 were playing it'd explain why the kid turns around mid video and looks at that woman like WTF are you doing? On the other hand it'd be hilarious if she was one of the ones not actually playing and was just doing all of those awful motions for show on the camera lol.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Kinect can support more than 2 players.

Kinect not limited to 2-players, Has unlimited possibilites

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...imited-to-2players-Has-unlimited-possibilites

 

[StrainedEyes]

You can't play while sitting, you can play while sitting, it can't support more than 2 players, it can support more then 2 players. The back and forth reporting on Kinect is getting annoying.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

You can't play while sitting, you can play while sitting, it can't support more than 2 players, it can support more then 2 players. The back and forth reporting on Kinect is getting annoying.

LOL.

I find it interesting how all these 'negative' stories keep coming out about Kinect only to be debunked with a little bit of research.

 

[Fading]

DP (trying to condense two posts into one)

 

[Fading]

About the 2 player thing, the original link I gave was from the guys who helped develop the tech. Personally I think the Examiner article is talking apples and oranges, but I'll post clips from both for comparison.

Examiner link

The camera technology can detect an unlimited number of people, so if it's programmed in such a way, it can process and render more than two-players at a time. At the current time, Microsoft hasn't revealed how many players Kinect will support

This is what Primesense said,

PrimeSense reps also told me that the camera can "see" any number of people on the screen -- you can fit as many people in that camera as possible, and the computer will see all of them and can even recognize them as human shapes. But it can only run calculations on two people at a time, just because the processing power required to track all of the body's locations and movements is so great. During our testing with the device, a person moving in front of the camera was able to "steal focus," but the computer can also be told through gestures to keep focus on a certain person.

Both articles are saying Kinect can see how ever many people you put in front of it. The difference is PrimeSense are saying that Kinect can only full render 2 of those people in game at a time due to it being a processing heavy task. Where the Examiner article (IMO) sounds full of guesswork. They say in theory, and are saying it can scan in those unlimited amounts of people with atleast 8 players in game. Meanwhile PrimeSense is saying that Kinect struggles to render 2 full body shapes in game at the same time. The original article even says that they were shown a demo where more than 2 ppl just ended up in a struggle that ended up with scene stealing. So the Examiner article isn't debunking what PrimeSense said.


Anyway sorry, not trying to sound aggressive on this, and not trying to argue. I'm not buying Kinect, and not trying to troll on it either. To anyone who buys it, more power to them and I hope they enjoy it. It's just that this is the Kinect thread, and guys like IGN and Kotaku are finally getting their hands on it and noticing these problems. It's news for Kinect, so we're posting it in here. I don't think it's like anyone in the thread thinks Sony or Nintendo pay any of us for posting negative news. Anyway I'll try and cut back on the negative news. It just so happens that pretty much 90% of whats being reported now is eye catching negative news from ppl who tried the tech, or worked on building the tech.

 

[StrainedEyes]

Looks like Kinect will be $149.99:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/110/1100864p1.html

 

[Flash Facts]

Both articles are saying Kinect can see how ever many people you put in front of it. The difference is PrimeSense are saying that Kinect can only full render 2 of those people in game at a time due to it being a processing heavy task. Where the Examiner article (IMO) sounds full of guesswork. They say in theory, and are saying it can scan in those unlimited amounts of people with atleast 8 players in game. Meanwhile PrimeSense is saying that Kinect struggles to render 2 full body shapes in game at the same time. The original article even says that they were shown a demo where more than 2 ppl just ended up in a struggle that ended up with scene stealing. So the Examiner article isn't debunking what PrimeSense said.

This is from the link that you posted:

Update: PrimeSense has gotten in touch with us to say that it was only the demo software it showed off at E3 that could support only two users, not the hardware itself. Theoretically, with enough processing power, PrimeSense's hardware licensed by Kinect could support any number of players.

But the company can't speak to us about Microsoft's implementation or how many players it can support. We'll try to check with Microsoft and let you know what we find.

Also I am wondering what exactly you meant by rendering. If I'm not mistaken there are a number of videos for that dance central game showing 3 people (main performer and 2 back up dancers) being rendered. I'm thinking you may have misspoke, well miswrote.

 

[KALEL114]

There was some questions about how a FPS would work on Kinect, MS might have just answered them.

When Kinect was unveiled as Project Natal during last year's E3 and Tokyo Game Show it looked like the sort of controller that would be used for a wider variety of games.
Up on stage, Microsoft showed off not only a bunch of casual games for the motion-controller, but also innovative titles like Milo, which has you interacting with a human child. Later that year, at the Tokyo Game Show, a panel of famed Japanese developers talked about all of the big games they could make for the device.
But at this year's E3 the games shown for Kinect all seem to be geared for casual gamers and Lionhead's charming child, Milo, was no where to be seen. What happened?
Project Milo is still in the works, according to Microsoft.
"Project Milo is something that is in ongoing development at Lionhead Studios," according to a Microsoft statement. "Lionhead has always been a center of innovation and will continue to deliver against that charter."
And what about hardcore gaming with Kinect?
"With "Halo: Reach," "Gears of War 3" and "Call of Duty: Black Ops," this is the biggest year for core games on Xbox 360," according to Microsoft. "In addition to these controller-based games, Kinect is a new way to play, using your full body and voice. We believe gamers will also enjoy games, sports, movies and music – all hands free. Beyond these experiences, we will continue to evolve our platform, just as we've done with Xbox LIVE. What you're seeing today is just the beginning."
Evolving gameplay doesn't exactly sound like the Project Natal of 2009. Why didn't Microsoft implement Kinect controls for Halo: Reach or Gears of War 3?
"At Xbox, we're developing controller-based games for the core and Kinect titles that appeal to everyone," according to a Microsoft statement. "And just as we've done with Xbox LIVE, we will continue to evolve our platform and work with the industry's most creative minds to create new games and entertainment. What you're seeing today is just the beginning."
For now Microsoft is only saying that Kinect will have "more than 15 games" available this November for the launch of the controller. They also confirm that Kinect will not be backwards compatible with any already released Xbox 360 games.

http://kotaku.com/5567696/microsoft-explains-why-kinect-doesnt-do-gears-of-war-3-halo-reach

 

[Fading]

Edit - Decided I'm kinda tired of the debate and being quoted and re-explaining myself over and over lol. Yes render was a miswrite as I was following the Examiner's lead and not clearly thinking enough to change it.


Here...instead of a huge wordy post, I'll just use an analogy that shows my poor car knowledge, and then unsubscribe from this thread for a bit lol.


PrimeSense: We developed an engine. The problem is it lacks a bit in horsepower, and as such can only hold two passengers while in motion. However when parked the car will support however many ppl can fit in it.

Microsoft: We'll buy your engines tech and mass manufacture it with a few minor tweaks.

Fading: I'll post this info.

ProjectPat: It can support more, read this!

Examiner: PrimeSense said Microsoft's engine can only move with 2 ppl, their wrong. When the car is parked it can hold dozen's of ppl. Therefore it can move with just as many ppl as it can hold hold when not moving.

PrimeSense: Update, we stated out info based on the engine we designed. Theoretically with more horsepower the engine will be able to move the car with more ppl. Whether Microsoft will add said horsepower we're not sure.

Flash Facts: Fading!!! Computer lingo Typoooo!!!!! DIIIEEEE!!!!

Fading: I, ok I'm sorry I'll type another block of text explaining what I meant. No, that first draft was too angry sounding and I'm not angry, I'll re-edit it to lighten it up a bit. Nope, screw it, the conversation is me restating the same thing over and over, I'll post a poor analogy instead.


(The above is all stated joking, and lovingly. I just have nothing more to add, bowing out of the thread. Even saying the word Kinect annoys me anymore with how much it's been talked about on the net on everything gaming related lately lol. Everyone carry on, no harm meant, sorry.)

 

[Flash Facts]

I think your are misunderstanding, I never said that anything conflicts with the original article. I was just pointing out that the article that you linked to, I didn't link to anything, was updated to clarify that PrimeSense told Joystiq the limitation was of the demo unit they had on display not of Kinect. From what we know Kinect does not even use the processor that was in PrimeSense's unit and as you said any limitation will come from the processor in the 360 and the improvements they made to the software not the tech shown at PrimeSense.

Also in regards to Dance Central, the dancers in the game aren't supposed to follow your movements. They are just there to show what the movements should look like. During free style mode the camera does seem to track backup dancers during single player and I believe at least two at the same time for two players.

Ryan and Jeff as back ups @ 4:49

This looks to be the 2 player mode

 

[ProjectPat2280]

There was some questions about how a FPS would work on Kinect, MS might have just answered them.


http://kotaku.com/5567696/microsoft-explains-why-kinect-doesnt-do-gears-of-war-3-halo-reach

I read something the other day talking about using Kinect for head tracking with FPS's. That i could get behind. It's been done on the PC and it looks really cool. I dont think we will ever see a Gears or Halo controller free and it should remain that way.

Looks like Kinect will be $149.99:
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/110/1100864p1.html

That price point is WAY too high. They are trying to fail setting it that high. It needs to be in the 80 - 100 dollar range tops.

 

[Flash Facts]

For those of you wondering what an FPS could possibly look like using Kinect here is an old "leaked" video of half life 2 using what was thought to be Kinect.

[YT]DKJzfWZ4t9w[/YT]

 

[KALEL114]

The rumor is that Kinect cost MS 150.00 to make. I know it is just a rumor, but if true, it would be difficult to sell it for 80-100 dollars.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

The rumor is that Kinect cost MS 150.00 to make. I know it is just a rumor, but if true, it would be difficult to sell it for 80-100 dollars.

Yea iv heard that as well, but others have stated the cost is closer to 80 dollars. Either way, they are probably going to have to take a loss. They've done that before, it's not unlikely for them to do it again. Look at Sony, they were taking a loss on every Playstation 3 up until recently.

Also, MS is stating that even though their website has it listed at 150, NO price has been set:

Stephen Toulouse of Microsoft stated on his Twitter account that all pricing for Kinect, no matter the retail source, is purely a placeholder.

Toulouse: "All prices now *no matter what the retail source* are placeholders. We've not announced."

 

[ProjectPat2280]

For those of you wondering what an FPS could possibly look like using Kinect here is an old "leaked" video of half life 2 using what was thought to be Kinect.

[YT]DKJzfWZ4t9w[/YT]

I think we will see something similar to this with FPS titles.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXx3vMy_AQ

 

[Havok83]

For those of you wondering what an FPS could possibly look like using Kinect here is an old "leaked" video of half life 2 using what was thought to be Kinect.

[YT]DKJzfWZ4t9w[/YT]

that looks pretty bad. I could see my self getting pretty naeusous with that

 

[Flash Facts]

Seeing as how Johnny Lee works at Microsoft I wouldn't be surprised if some of his head tracking projects showed up in games as well.

[YT]Jd3-eiid-Uw[/YT]

 

[Superhero 101]

i am sure microsoft will come up with a brilliant way for hardcore gamers to play fps