Kinect and it's effects on the WORLD.

[Isildur´s Heir]

what kind of potential are you talking about?? seriously....short of dodegeball and WiiFit knockoffs, what else is that piece of **** peripheral good for?

There is potential, lots of it, from the smallest thing to big ones, but the question is, will the product be able to do it?
No, i don´t thing so, not at least for the 1st year, and not with tons for updates to it.

One of the first things Kinect needs to do is to have one hell of a mic, so it can hear whispers.
The whispers part is, imo, very important, that is, if MS wants the voice commands to be usable, because, not only will many people find it weird to be talking at full voice to a TV screen; imagine someone playing at night, with people sleeping in the next room, and all of a sudden you have to shout....
Second, in every game, the character you are controlling have to do everything you do in real life; if you sit, he sits; if you jump, he jumps; if you scratch your butt.......you get the picture.
That is because the all controller-free gaming doesn´t make much sense, that is not what is important in Kinect; the way better slogan would be: YOU ARE THE GAME or GET INSIDE THE GAME or YOU ARE THE CHARACTER.
For example, take a shooter.
You go to a table where a lot of guns are, and the character automatically picks them up.
He puts the assault rifle and put it on his back, but all the other weapons are nowhere to be seen.
When you press a button, you take out your weapons.
Now imagine this:

A third person shooter.
You go to a table where the weapons are.
Insted of picking them up automatically, you have to reach you arm and pick them, not only that, but you have to put them on you, which means that you have to make the movement of putting the pistol on the holdster.
If you put it in the back of your pants, the character will put the pistol there, if you put it on your boot, the character will do it also and so on.
When you need to fire the weapons, insted of pressing a button, you have to reach for where the weapon is and take it out.
Imagine the kind of immersion it would have, you would quickily forget that you are not holding anything, because you are making the movements you see on screen.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I´ll get back when i have the time

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

what kind of potential are you talking about?? seriously....short of dodegeball and WiiFit knockoffs, what else is that piece of **** peripheral good for?

There is potential, lots of it, from the smallest thing to big ones, but the question is, will the product be able to do it?
No, i don´t thing so, not at least for the 1st year, and not with tons for updates to it.

One of the first things Kinect needs to do is to have one hell of a mic, so it can hear whispers.
The whispers part is, imo, very important, that is, if MS wants the voice commands to be usable, because, not only will many people find it weird to be talking at full voice to a TV screen; imagine someone playing at night, with people sleeping in the next room, and all of a sudden you have to shout....
Second, in every game, the character you are controlling have to do everything you do in real life; if you sit, he sits; if you jump, he jumps; if you scratch your butt.......you get the picture.
That is because the all controller-free gaming doesn´t make much sense, that is not what is important in Kinect; the way better slogan would be: YOU ARE THE GAME or GET INSIDE THE GAME or YOU ARE THE CHARACTER.
For example, take a shooter.
You go to a table where a lot of guns are, and the character automatically picks them up.
He puts the assault rifle and put it on his back, but all the other weapons are nowhere to be seen.
When you press a button, you take out your weapons.
Now imagine this:

A third person shooter.
You go to a table where the weapons are.
Insted of picking them up automatically, you have to reach you arm and pick them, not only that, but you have to put them on you, which means that you have to make the movement of putting the pistol on the holdster.
If you put it in the back of your pants, the character will put the pistol there, if you put it on your boot, the character will do it also and so on.
When you need to fire the weapons, insted of pressing a button, you have to reach for where the weapon is and take it out.
Imagine the kind of immersion it would have, you would quickily forget that you are not holding anything, because you are making the movements you see on screen.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I´ll get back when i have the time

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

what kind of potential are you talking about?? seriously....short of dodegeball and WiiFit knockoffs, what else is that piece of **** peripheral good for?

There is potential, lots of it, from the smallest thing to big ones, but the question is, will the product be able to do it?
No, i don´t thing so, not at least for the 1st year, and not with tons for updates to it.

One of the first things Kinect needs to do is to have one hell of a mic, so it can hear whispers.
The whispers part is, imo, very important, that is, if MS wants the voice commands to be usable, because, not only will many people find it weird to be talking at full voice to a TV screen; imagine someone playing at night, with people sleeping in the next room, and all of a sudden you have to shout....
Second, in every game, the character you are controlling have to do everything you do in real life; if you sit, he sits; if you jump, he jumps; if you scratch your butt.......you get the picture.
That is because the all controller-free gaming doesn´t make much sense, that is not what is important in Kinect; the way better slogan would be: YOU ARE THE GAME or GET INSIDE THE GAME or YOU ARE THE CHARACTER.
For example, take a shooter.
You go to a table where a lot of guns are, and the character automatically picks them up.
He puts the assault rifle and put it on his back, but all the other weapons are nowhere to be seen.
When you press a button, you take out your weapons.
Now imagine this:

A third person shooter.
You go to a table where the weapons are.
Insted of picking them up automatically, you have to reach you arm and pick them, not only that, but you have to put them on you, which means that you have to make the movement of putting the pistol on the holdster.
If you put it in the back of your pants, the character will put the pistol there, if you put it on your boot, the character will do it also and so on.
When you need to fire the weapons, insted of pressing a button, you have to reach for where the weapon is and take it out.
Imagine the kind of immersion it would have, you would quickily forget that you are not holding anything, because you are making the movements you see on screen.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I´ll get back when i have the time

 

[Fading]

I'm not saying I disagree, there is potential, I just don't see it's uses in more traditional games. Such as an FPS or third person shooter, how do you pull the trigger? Do you pretend to hold an invisible gun, and squeeze an invisible trigger? I'm not sure how that's more immersive than holding an actual plastic lightgun. Or walking, if it follows you exactly, what happens when you walk to the edge of the screen? Is it that you jog in place like it currently does, and it follows the direction you are pointed towards? Because, to me, the current way that works with Kinect looks less fun, and much more hassle. Same with jumping.


IMO, and like I just said this is just my opinion, virtual reality only works in a small amount of settings. I could see Kinect working for slower paced MMO's where jumping is limited, and it can mimic the swing of your sword (or an Oblivion single player setting). I however don't see it working for something like Uncharted where you're doing flips, climbing, and shooting like that. I think Kinect could work well for social games as well, like where you walk around something like the Sims and socialize with others. However there are situations that still basically require buttons, and actually feel more immersive with something physical in your hand. Plus I see gaming being far less relaxing and enjoyable if you have to rearrange your room to perfectly fit a game setting, and physically sit and stand everytime you want to sit or stand, have to jump constantly on rocky roads while jogging in place to just move forward.

I dunno, I just think we're not ready to move to total button and controllerless gaming yet. Maybe the virtual reality we dreamed of in the early 90's was more flawed than we thought. Maybe something like that will only truly work in a Star Trek holodeck type setting. However I'm not seeing Kinect being able to do too much to make gaming better as a whole that you can't do already with physical controllers. Take your, pick a gun up, make a motion to put it in a holster. With Move (just using it as a physical example) the Sports Champion has just that, you move your hand to your back where your arrow is, squeeze the trigger like you were grabbing the arrow, move it in front of you in conjunction with your other arm and pull back, and shoot. With Kinect in that situation you'd lack that feel of actually holding something mimicking the bow and arrow, and when you move your hand to your back out of the camera's view Kinect has to make a guess of what you're doing, where Move will still give info on your hands movement despite not being in the PS Eye's view.

I think Kinect has potential, and for what it does well, to those who want that (handless navigation, etc.) it will be a worthwhile purchase. I just don't think it has much potential in it's current form in the way of pure shooting, flipping around, climbing, explosions, platforming style game. It very well could end up being a first step towards something like a holodeck. Same way Sony's pushing of 3D TV's could be a first step towards the visuals in a holodeck. However I don't think either in their current form add much in a meaningful way to gaming this generation.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

I totally agree that, in the current form, Kinect can´t do s**t, it´s nothing more than a glorified paperweight, but like you said and me before, it has an amazing potential.
And your right, and i forgot to mention it, the easier the thing is, the more dificult it is to make with Kinect.
To run or walk is extremely dificult.
It´s doable, and i have an idea how, but i believe that many people would not like it.
As for flipping or flying kicks, yeah, Kinect can´t do that, but neither can Move or the Wii for that matter.
Imagine God of War with Move...that would be horrible, how the hell would you the combos?
The same goes to fighting games, and i mean like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat, not simplified ones like the one from Ubisoft for Kinect or The Fights for Move.


As for "Kinect vs Move"....
There are many things that you can do in both, that´s a given, but, imo, the thing that the other can´t do is both a blessing and a curse.
With Kinect you are not holding anything, which for many is it´s biggest fail.
As for Move (and the Wii, for that matter), you are holding something, which makes it much less natural.
Take Street Fighter as an example.
With both Move and Kinect, you would be able to do the Ryu Hadouken move, but, imo, it would be much better with Kinect.
Why?
Because it´s much more natural, like Ryu you would do the attack without holding anything.
Another example, this one of a Move game, The Fights.
With Kinect you can do every attack that you do with Move, but, there is one thing Move can´t do...to open your hands.
For instance, with both products, you can do a movement to block you opponent´s attack, but with Kinect you can open your hand and grab him, pulling him down, poke his eyes (ok, you can´t because Kinect can´t do fingers), etc...

Of both products, at the moment of release, Move is better, but, imo, Kinect has much more potential.

 

[GhostPoet]

It's a good device for families and little kids...but not really beyond that. You can't play FPS's with it. RPG's would be a pain and sports games (like football or wrestling) would be absolutely horrible.

 

[KALEL114]

The manual has leaked.

Did you know two people playing Kinect need to stand 8 feet from the camera? Did you know Kinect needs to be placed 2-6 feet high to work? Did you know that you don’t need a Kinect power pack if you own a 360 Slim?
You do now.

VG247 has received photographs of the entire Kinect manual, revealing final, consumer-facing information on setting up and using the motion camera.
The required play distances are confirmed in the document: “The sensor can see you when you are approximately 6 feet (2 meters) from the sensor. For two people, you should play approximately 8 feet (2.5 meters) from the sensor.”
The manual also provides height information for placing: “For the best play space and sensor performance, place your sensor between 2 and 6 feet (0.6 and 2 meters) high, the closer to the low or high limit the better.”
You’re also warned that you should “not put the sensor on your console.”
The peripheral’s manual confirms that an external power pack needs to be used unless you own a Slim.
“For Xbox 360 S consoles, power is supplied by the console. For original Xbox 360 consoles, you’ll need to connect the sensor to a standard wall outlet.”
If you own a Slim, the camera’s simply plugged into the AUX input.
Kinect comes with a software disc which needs to be installed for it to work. We’re going to assume this is included in the upcoming 360 dashboard update.
“Troubleshooting”
There’s a troubleshooting section at the back of the manual, which tells you how to fix stuff if it all goes wrong.
If the camera can’t see you, you should “turn on lights to brighten the play space,” “try wearing different colored clothing that contrasts with the background of your play space,” and “prevent lights, including sunlight, from shining directly on the sensor.”
You’re also warned to make sure the system is “well-ventilated.”
Check out the images below. There’s a page missing here which detailed how to install the software; the photo was really blurred.
Kinect launches in the US on November 4 and the UK on November 10.

Pics at the jump.

http://www.vg247.com/2010/10/05/entire-kinect-manual-photographed-play-distances-power-details-more/

 

[Havok83]

the bit about not needing a power pack if you own a 360 S, thats not new info. Thats why those 360s were shipped with the title Kinect Ready on them

 

[Benstamania]

I knew about that power pack thing... Mainly because you can preorder the cord now at GameStop.

....And it's 50 freaking bucks, for a cord! The Kinect TV stand to mount it on top of your TV is 30 bucks. So if I want to get a Kinect I'll have to spend 230 bucks (before taxes) and that's only if a game comes with it...

 

[Havok83]

50? Dang thats just wrong. With any luck, you can use a 3rd party one for it. Maybe monoprice will have for those that want Kinect

 

[Cth]

According to this:
http://store.microsoft.com/microsoft/Kinect-for-Xbox-360/product/C737B081

The Kinect comes bundled with the power cord.

And you don't NEED a tv mount, but it could come in handy for those with less space to work with (I think I remember some review mention it can cut down distance needed by a foot or two)

 

[Benstamania]

My speakers are in front of my TV.... the mic is on the back of Kinect...so, unless I want the mic picking up my TV speakers I'll need the stand.

As for the cable, I think that might be the cable that goes from the Kinect to the new slim 360s. You need a completely different cable for the current models which is the one that doesn't come with Kinect.

I may be wrong. I should send Major Nelson a Tweet... Not like he'll get back to me.

 

[KALEL114]

I think you are thinking about the extension cable.

http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=78197

You should get everything you need to play Kinect out of the box.

 

[Benstamania]

Ah, well that's good then. I wasn't even aware that it came with a game. I THOUGHT it did but wasn't 100% sure.

 

[Grievous]

I have stated it before and I will state it again. My house is not made for Kinect because for one thing if I jump the things around me are going to jar because of the kind of floor I have, second I don't have the space in front of my tv to use Kinect. I love Xbox but I would be lying if I said I did not want Kinect to fail badly in the market.

 

[Timstuff]

Does an interface with no controller make those stupid 3rd-party peripherals even more useless? You betcha. Ladies and gents, I present the Kinect Boat.

http://kotaku.com/5658883/kinect-does-not-need-this-no-sir-it-does-not

No, your eyes do not decieve you-- that is a 100% non-functional inflatable raft that you stand in while playing the Kinect Adventures raft mini-game. What will the wonderful world of third party plastic churn out next, I wonder?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Does an interface with no controller make those stupid 3rd-party peripherals even more useless? You betcha. Ladies and gents, I present the Kinect Boat.

http://kotaku.com/5658883/kinect-does-not-need-this-no-sir-it-does-not

No, your eyes do not decieve you-- that is a 100% non-functional inflatable raft that you stand in while playing the Kinect Adventures raft mini-game. What will the wonderful world of third party plastic churn out next, I wonder?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

To be honest, I'm more intrigued with Kinect's potential for PC's than what it can do with the Xbox.

 

[Havok83]

They announced it for PC and then nothing. Im not even sure if they still will release it on that

I was at Gamestop yesterday and 2 girls about 12 saw Kinect One girl said "I'm getting that" and the other replied "You're so lucky. I want that" The thing will sell especially with kids asking their parents for it come Christmas time. Even if it does suck, what attracts people to it initially is that its different and not whats seen in the market. Kids want the newest thing that no one else has and thats where Kinect stands out. I see no value in it for the typical gamer like myself bc that setup cant be easily implemented into the hardcore games I play. But if MS works on perfecting and making quality games for it aimed at the children and mom crowd then I dont see it being a complete failure

 

[Timstuff]

Microsoft seems to have done the impossible-- they've managed to make the market forget that "controller free gaming" has been around since the PS2.

I'm not sure if this demonstrates how effective agressive marketing can be, or how short the public's memory is. Then again, the Wii was a big hit despite the fact that Nintendo already did waggle-based gaming on the NES with the Power Glove. From what I've seen I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say that Kinect offers an improvement over the Eyetoy on par with going from the Power Glove to the Wii (in practice, I'm not sure if there will be much difference at all), but in the eyes of the public they already believe that playing games with a camera is a brand new breakthrough that has never been done before.

 

[Fading]

Microsoft seems to have done the impossible-- they've managed to make the market forget that "controller free gaming" has been around since the PS2.

I'm not sure if this demonstrates how effective agressive marketing can be, or how short the public's memory is. Then again, the Wii was a big hit despite the fact that Nintendo already did waggle-based gaming on the NES with the Power Glove. From what I've seen I certainly wouldn't go so far as to say that Kinect offers an improvement over the Eyetoy on par with going from the Power Glove to the Wii (in practice, I'm not sure if there will be much difference at all), but in the eyes of the public they already believe that playing games with a camera is a brand new breakthrough that has never been done before.

You saying that reminded me of this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=780bIG6TXFk

Even tho the overall input method is different, they both had the $150, "you are the controller" deal going. The video game world has an odd way of something coming in and getting forgotten, and then someone reinventing it years down the road and making it successful. Heh, Nintendo I think is doing that with itself, with it's failed Virtua Boy, and following down that 3D path with the most likely to be successful 3DS.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Seems that Microsoft is really going foward to the all natural user interface, which, imo, is a great decision as it is the future (no, not just in gaming).
Microsoft just bought Canesta.

The big news for the day comes in the form of Canesta coming to terms of agreement where their products, software, chip designs and intellectual properties are being acquired by Microsoft. The acquisition spells a step forward in the evolution of user interfaces, as Canesta focuses on elevating productivity for natural user interfaces (NUI), much in the same way that Kinect allows for controller-free gaming.

Jim Spare, Canesta president and CEO of Canesta commented about the new acquisition, saying…

“This is very exciting news for the industry. There is little question that within the next decade we will see natural user interfaces become common for input across all devices. With Microsoft’s breadth of scope from enterprise to consumer products, market presence, and commitment to NUI, we are confident that our technology will see wide adoption across many applications that embody the full potential of the technology.”


The technology that Microsoft plans to employ in the near future isn’t just a portico of technological terms; Canesta is actually all about cutting edge software, firmware and hardware technology that will make natural user interfacing both easier, more streamlined and convenient enough to make it a viable commercial alternative to the standard GUIs in today’s generation of technology. In other words, the next Windows or Xbox gaming console could be entirely focused on NUI tech that makes interactivity both fluent and more user-friendly.

The real question, however, is how will this affect Kinect in the long term and will Microsoft pull an Xbox 1 with Kinect if they see an opportunity to break through with a new form of interactivity now that they have Canesta’s tech in their services?

Regardless, the acquisition definitely spells good news for technocrats and sci-fi geeks who really want to do some day-in and day-out Minority Report hand-ballet. We’ll definitely keep you posted on what comes of it. For more information on Canesta and their products, be sure to visit the Official Website.

I just would like to Microsoft devote all that energy to games too and buy some freaking devs, but i see it as a good decision for the company

 

[Fading]

Seems that Microsoft is really going foward to the all natural user interface, which, imo, is a great decision as it is the future (no, not just in gaming).
Microsoft just bought Canesta.



I just would like to Microsoft devote all that energy to games too and buy some freaking devs, but i see it as a good decision for the company

I think they're far too deep in their current direction to switch gears. As great as it'd be for them to spend the same cash to buy game developers to make more exclusives for the 360 would be, I think Microsoft has decided to take an entirely different approach. This all could pay off, not knocking the approach, and Canesta helping develop a better UI could further improve a lot of Xbox related things like Live itself. It's just that on the other hand they spent over 500 million on marketing Kinect alone, not counting R&D, and manufacturing costs. I think the Xbox brand will carry on fine if Kinect fails, but they've sunk in probably 1 billion dollars into it already, and I'd imagine Microsoft is going to make it work no matter what, or they may have some very unhappy investors.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Like i said, to buy Canesta was a great decision; the all natural user interface is the future in everything tech related, so, it will be big for the company´s future...and they sure need it.
The big question is, when they start to actually use it, will it be too late?
Microsoft is a dying brand, this decade was all about bad decisions, to the point of being surpassed by Apple and Google (the last one in search engine and mobile OS).
A couple of more years and they might be the new IBM.

Steve Ballmer, Don Mattrick and Phil Spencer should resign as they are awful in what they do.
Ballmer is the one to blame as he is the CEO if the company.
Mattrick is light years behind Peter Moore in doing the same job.
Phil Spencer is totally out of touch of what gaming is and gamers want, as head of Microsoft Game Studios, he is pathetic.

 

[Timstuff]

Thanks to Sony's muck ups with the PS3 launch in 2006, Microsoft was in a perfect position to nail down second place. And yet, somehow, they are still slipping into third place, and it could potentially happen as soon as the end of the year. And how do they respond to this? Will it be by strengthening their core with more blockbuster games, and perhaps FINALLY making online play and other features permanently available to Xbox Live silver members? Nope. They are making a next-generation version of the Eyetoy, and raising the rate for Xbox Live. They are focusing on the casual gamer, and making hard core players pay more for what they have already been given. They are more interested in attracting Wii players than they are in keeping their current users from defecting to the PS3, and thus far it's hurting them. In one year the 360's lead over the PS3 has essentially been cut in half, and at the rate things are going, by this time next year the 360 will be in last place.

Microsoft SERIOUSLY needs to shape up. One big game every 2 years that sells 10 million copies is not enough.