Label me your Jesus and I will set you free

Kaleb

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The minister has the number 666 tattooed on his arm.

But Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda is not your typical minister. De Jesus, or "Daddy" as his thousands of followers call him, does not merely pray to God: He says he is God.

"The spirit that is in me is the same spirit that was in Jesus of Nazareth," de Jesus says.

De Jesus' claims of divinity have angered Christian leaders, who say he is a fake. Religious experts say he may be something much more dangerous, a cult leader who really believes he is God. (Watch followers get 666 tattoos for their leader )

"He's in their heads, he's inside the heads of those people," says Prof. Daniel Alvarez, a religion expert at Florida International University who has debated some of de Jesus' followers.

"De Jesus speaks with a kind of conviction that makes me consider him more like David Koresh or Jim Jones."

Is de Jesus really a cult leader like David Koresh, who died with more than 70 of his Branch Davidian followers in a fiery end to a standoff with federal authorities, or Jim Jones, the founder of the Peoples Temple who committed mass suicide with 900 followers in 1978?

Prophets 'spoke to me'
De Jesus and his believers say their church -- "Creciendo en Gracia," Spanish for "Growing in grace" -- is misunderstood. Followers of the movement say they have proof that their minister is divine and that their church will one day soon be a major faith in the world.

But even de Jesus concedes that he is an unlikely leader of a church that claims thousands of members in more than 30 countries.

De Jesus, 61, grew up poor in Puerto Rico. He says he served stints in prison there for petty theft and says he was a heroin addict.

De Jesus says he learned he was Jesus reincarnate when he was visited in a dream by angels.

"The prophets, they spoke about me. It took me time to learn that, but I am what they were expecting, what they have been expecting for 2,000 years," de Jesus says.

The church that he began building 20 years ago in Miami resembles no other:


Followers have protested Christian churches in Miami and Latin America, disrupting services and smashing crosses and statues of Jesus.


De Jesus preaches there is no devil and no sin. His followers, he says, literally can do no wrong in God's eyes.


The church calls itself the "Government of God on Earth" and uses a seal similar to the United States.

Doing God's work with a Lexus and Rolex
If Creciendo en Gracia is an atypical religious group, de Jesus also does not fit the mold of the average church leader. De Jesus flouts traditional vows of poverty.

He says he has a church-paid salary of $136,000 but lives more lavishly than that. During an interview, he showed off a diamond-encrusted Rolex to a CNN crew and said he has three just like them. He travels in armored Lexuses and BMWs, he says, for his safety. All are gifts from his devoted followers.

And what about the tattoo of 666 on his arm?

Although it's a number usually associated with Satan, not the son of God, de Jesus says that 666 and the Antichrist are, like him, misunderstood.

The Antichrist is not the devil, de Jesus tells his congregation; he's the being who replaces Jesus on Earth.

"Antichrist is the best person in the world," he says. "Antichrist means don't put your eyes on Jesus because Jesus of Nazareth wasn't a Christian. Antichrist means do not put your eyes on Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Put it on Jesus after the cross."

And de Jesus says that means him.

So far, de Jesus says that his flock hasn't been scared off by his claims of being the Antichrist. In a show of the sway he holds over the group, 30 members of his congregation Tuesday went to a tattoo parlor to have 666 also permanently etched onto their skin.

He may wield influence over them, but his followers say don't expect them to go the way of people who believed in David Koresh and Jim Jones. Just by finding de Jesus, they say, they have achieved their purpose.

"If somebody tells us drink some Kool-Aid and we'll go to heaven, that's not true. We are already in heavenly places," follower Martita Roca told CNN after having 666 tattooed onto her ankle.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/16/miami.preacher/index.html
 
BWHAHAHAHA!!!
Does he think people are that gullible?
He's going to hell, I hope he knows that.
 
BWHAHAHAHA!!!
Does he think people are that gullible?
He's going to hell, I hope he knows that.

Eh, it does ay in The Bible that you shouldn't judge a person's destination in The Afterlife.

At least I think it does.
 
Closing...

Seriously this guy is a dumbass.
 
I only I had the power to manipulate ppl like he does.
 
Eh, it does ay in The Bible that you shouldn't judge a person's destination in The Afterlife.

At least I think it does.
It also so says that you should not make Idols, make wrongful use of the name of God, and that we shouldn't have gods before God.
He's breaking 3 commandments by saying this.
And I don't see him repenting any time soon.
 
This is going to turn into a massive cult, and become a mass suicide sometime in the near future.
 
It also so says that you should not make Idols, make wrongful use of the name of God, and that we shouldn't have gods before God.
He's breaking 3 commandments by saying this.
And I don't see him repenting any time soon.

He's a lost soul. :csad:
 
No, just because you find his teachings to sound absurd does not mean he is a "lost soul" or that he's "going to Hell".

For all you know, he is 100% telling the truth. You can't prove that he's not.
As Christians are so fond of saying in Creation vs. Evolution threads..."It's a matter of Faith."

For all you know, YOU are the blind masses who will suffer for denying this incarnation of God.


I'll remind you that when JESUS came he taught bizarre bastardizations of the the previously accepted teachings of God and was considered to be such a wicked idolator and blasphemer that they wanted to KILL him for it.
He was accused of being a charlatan and of being Demon possessed, an agent of Satan...because he taught new, weird ideas AND claimed to be God himself.


All you have to go on, as far as believing in the Bible is concerned, is that someone a long time ago said the same thing...that they were visited by angels and had revelations,...and, like this new guy, they were ALL filthy sinners.

GOD commanded us not to work on the Sabbath.
Jesus came and worked on the Sabbath.

GOD commanded us to stone an adulteress to death.
Jesus said not to.

He contradicted the Word of God, and claimed to be God.
Just as inflammatory and preposterous as this guy.

:o

:o
 
I don't see Jesus as a thief and heroin addict though.
 
No, just because you find his teachings to sound absurd does not mean he is a "lost soul" or that he's "going to Hell".

For all you know, he is 100% telling the truth. You can't prove that he's not.
As Christians are so fond of saying in Creation vs. Evolution threads..."It's a matter of Faith."

For all you know, YOU are the blind masses who will suffer for denying this incarnation of God.


I'll remind you that when JESUS came he taught bizarre bastardizations of the the previously accepted teachings of God and was considered to be such a wicked idolator and blasphemer that they wanted to KILL him for it.
He was accused of being a charlatan and of being Demon possessed, an agent of Satan...because he taught new, weird ideas AND claimed to be God himself.


All you have to go on, as far as believing in the Bible is concerned, is that someone a long time ago said the same thing...that they were visited by angels and had revelations,...and, like this new guy, they were ALL filthy sinners.

:o

But Jesus performed miracles and rose from the dead. He provided evidnece that he was what he claimed. This guy didn't.
 
No, just because you find his teachings to sound absurd does not mean he is a "lost soul" or that he's "going to Hell".

For all you know, he is 100% telling the truth. You can't prove that he's not.
As Christians are so fond of saying in Creation vs. Evolution threads..."It's a matter of Faith."

For all you know, YOU are the blind masses who will suffer for denying this incarnation of God.


I'll remind you that when JESUS came he taught bizarre bastardizations of the the previously accepted teachings of God and was considered to be such a wicked idolator and blasphemer that they wanted to KILL him for it.
He was accused of being a charlatan and of being Demon possessed, an agent of Satan...because he taught new, weird ideas AND claimed to be God himself.


All you have to go on, as far as believing in the Bible is concerned, is that someone a long time ago said the same thing...that they were visited by angels and had revelations,...and, like this new guy, they were ALL filthy sinners.

:o

Thanks Wil for immediately attacking Christ and comparing him to this guy.

It will ensure that this thread will degenerate into yet another thread about Christians, evolution and why we should/shouldn't have faith or believe in God / Heaven / Hell.

Nice. :dry:
 
Thanks Wil for immediately attacking Christ and comparing him to this guy.

It will ensure that this thread will degenerate into yet another thread about Christians, evolution and why we should/shouldn't have faith or believe in God / Heaven / Hell.

Nice. :dry:

Yup.
 
DRINK THE KOOL-AID!:cmad:



































*it was flavor-aid actually*
 
Thanks Wil for immediately attacking Christ and comparing him to this guy.

It will ensure that this thread will degenerate into yet another thread about Christians, evolution and why we should/shouldn't have faith or believe in God / Heaven / Hell.

Nice. :dry:


Not ONE word there was an attack on Christ. Read it again. It was all completely true as recorded in the Bible.

I was attacking the arrogance of people who believe their belief has to be the only right one and if an outlandish-sounding NEW belief comes along, that it's automatically wrong-headed or even sinister......by pointing out that the same things that are being said here now about this guy, were said about JESUS.

Read deeper, champ.
No attack on Jesus whatsoever.
Just a segment of his arrogant, narrowminded, self-satisfied and self-righteous followers.

:o X 1,000


It's almost impossible to offend me, but I'm pretty offended that you've characterized this as a case of me Jesus-Bashing when I'm not in any way.

The Pharisees?
The Saducees?
They DID all think Jesus was either a psycho who needed help or a dangerous blasphemer.
Read your Bible if you disagree.
 
I don't see Jesus as a thief and heroin addict though.

But the pharisees and Sadducees claimed that he was an alcoholic.

Luke 7:34 -- The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!
 
But the pharisees and Sadducees claimed that he was an alcoholic.

Luke 7:34 -- The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!

That doesn't go against a commandment however.
"Thou shalt not steal".
 
This thread is about a crazy guy , not about Jesus Christ
 
But the pharisees and Sadducees claimed that he was an alcoholic.

Luke 7:34 -- The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!
:up:

Yes, well, few actually bother to read the Bible, but they have a lot of ideas about what it's supposed to say, whether true or not.

It's sad that people here are so defensive that they can't just logically see that all I was saying was that Jesus was widely thought to be a scoundrel, mentally ill, Satanic and a vile sinner by the majority of people, so they should be careful before judging in the same way.

The people who denounced Jesus also "knew" they were the right ones.
 
Jim Jones' followers were quite vocal about the many miracles he performed as well. :dry:

True.

Look, I'm a Christian by birth, and though I don't practice my religion, I'm very spiritual and my faith in God and Jesus is very strong (even though I'm somewhat anti-religion). I havne't read The Bible, that I will admit. But everything I know about it, I believe in the teachings (except on homosexuality). Not all the stories, but definitely the teachings. I am aware that Jesus was thought of a Satanist, a sinner, a scroundel, etc. But he still proved his miracles, at least that is what my knowledge of The Bible and my faith tells me.

Look, if this mans hows proof that he is somehow God incarnate, fine. Maybe I'll belive. But until the water bottle infront of me suddenly morphs into wine, I'll believe that this man is crazy, just like very other person whoever claimed to be God was.
 
:up:

Yes, well, few actually bother to read the Bible, but they have a lot of ideas about what it's supposed to say, whether true or not.

It's sad that people here are so defensive that they can't just logically see that all I was saying was that Jesus was widely thought to be a scoundrel, mentally ill, Satanic and a vile sinner by the majority of people, so they should be careful before judging in the same way.

The people who denounced Jesus also "knew" they were the right ones.

What they also naively fail to realize that the reporters also inject their own biases and beliefs into the story, whether they try to or not.

After reading Chosen by Mark Millar, I walked away wondering that if I had been alive in the first century would I have been among the cynical or the believers?
 

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